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If you were CCP, what would you do to reduce lag?

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Anila's Delight	Posted - 2007.04.02 08:27:00 - [1] This is a bit of a whine thread for me, as I hate seeing a dozen new threads spawn after a 1000 man fleet battle killed the node and rendered the game unplayable. Now anyone who has played EvE for long enough knows that if there is enough people in one place lag will ensue, making the game largly unplayable. This was most noted when 1500 people attacked a titan producing POS and the defenders were unable to defend. This resulted in the baby titan being lost. Another instance occured recently when a system was caped at 700 people. This caused quite a few comlpaints, accusations of GM helping the defenders, the attackers being able to defend their caps and general exploiting. While there was major lag in this battle, the node held and the battle was fought. While this cap was mentioned in a dv blog some time ago, it has only recently started being enforced. Many will and have perceived this system limit as being unfair, because all an attacker/defender have to do is log 700 accounts in and generaly exploit game mechanics. Anyone who has played eve for some time has more than likely been to Jita. This system has an average of 300 people in system at any one time. If you have been their you would have noticed how bad this lag is. CCP devs/GM's/coffee girls have at one time or another said that Jita exists on CCP's most powerfull node, yet their is quite a large amount of lag with just 300 people in local. During the 1500 man fight, a CCP dev moved that system onto an identical node to Jita. This still didn't help. The game was unplayable mostly in this system. This shows us that CCP's most powerfull hardware can not cope with the large blobing tactics employed by the players. Now it is often said by CCP that they are constantly upgrading the cluster with new hardware/software, which usually results in an extended downtime (So obviously it has been happening alot lately). On top of this, CCP are also planing the need for speed inititive in an attempt to reduce lag. While us the players do not know all the details, we do know some. The interbus system is an attempt to keep everyone from having to visit a market hub buy having their purchases delivered to them for a small fee. They are also trying to force attackers into smaller gangs, with features such as attacking outpost subsystems, rather than just claiming the station in pos/station ping pong. A controvertial feature that has already been implimented is the titans doomsday device(DDD). Incase you play under a rock, the DDD is a grid wide smartbomb which does huge amounts of damage, effectivly anihilating a fleet. I belive the titan is currently overpowered with its ability to hit and run, but that is for another thread. The titans powers have forced fleet commanders to reasses tactics from their general "bring the most and biggest ships tactics". To prevent your fleet from being DDD'ed, use less ships and provide a less tempting target. Who wants to waste their once an hour fleet decimator on 12 battleships? This reduce's the number of pilots in a system, on a node and reduces lag. Most people accept lag as a way of life in EvE. Now what would you do to reduce lag? Some people say get better hardware, but where is the sense in purchasing $10mill of equipment when you can just tweak game mechanics? If it were me, I'd create more specialised ships, such as an anti-supercaptial EW ship, or, when constellation sovereignty becomes a reality, give the owners of a system the ability to control the entering stargates. So, what would you do? (please dont say kill goons or bob) Originally by: Altrex Conclusive proof ladies and gentlemen that WoW kills brain cells.
Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.02 08:53:00 - [2] Make EVE a single player game ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
Arvald Caldari Saxon's Brutality	Posted - 2007.04.02 08:58:00 - [3] i would randomly delete accounts this would greatly reduce lag =-=-=-=-==-==-==-=-=-===-=-=-=-=====-=-==-=- Im screwing the pepole of eve over one freeform at a time
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.04.02 09:00:00 - [4] Throw out all the players "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.04.02 09:01:00 - [5] Make Jita 0.0 -
Tarminic	Posted - 2007.04.02 09:02:00 - [6] Unfortunately there isn't much that can be done except to reduce the number of players in individual battles, so the anti-blob tactics are the best way to go to be honest. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.04.02 09:05:00 - [7] I'd hire some competent developers and dish out more for proper hardware instead of considering it a lost cause and starting to work on the next game ...
Viliny principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.02 09:18:00 - [8] id say, making changes to the game is like bending over and giving up, optimize the code and keep throwing more hardware at it
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.02 09:34:00 - [9] optimize code optimize code optimize code optimize code optimize code ... but for an empire only fix, start a 2 week countdown, after which ALL giant secure cans anchored everywhere in the galaxcy will explode went mining with a RL friend who's just started Eve about a week back, 50 frikkin cans in one belt X every belt in system, if thats not causeing database related lag i dunno what is. -
Tarminic	Posted - 2007.04.02 09:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Alski optimize code optimize code optimize code optimize code optimize code ... but for an empire only fix, start a 2 week countdown, after which ALL giant secure cans anchored everywhere in the galaxcy will explode went mining with a RL friend who's just started Eve about a week back, 50 frikkin cans in one belt X every belt in system, if thats not causeing database related lag i dunno what is. Actually...considering they're just stationary objects that rarely interact with any players they probably don't cause much lag at all, lol. Database room, on the other hand... Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected]) It's true, I swear.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Anila's Delight Now what would you do to reduce lag? Have the devs working on the game instead of playing it.
Kerc Kasha Caldari Valiant Logistics Inc. Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Anila's Delight Now what would you do to reduce lag? Have the devs working on the game instead of playing it. The devs work when they're at work, and occasionally in their free time, which is cutting into their time with their family, their brew and their time playing the game. Cut them some freaking slack with this "DEVS SHOULD BE WORKING NOT PLAYING" thing, I mean how would you feel if your boss said you shouldn't be doing anything in your life but work.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:24:00 - [13] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 02/04/2007 10:20:10 Originally by: Kerc Kasha Cut them some freaking slack with this "DEVS SHOULD BE WORKING NOT PLAYING" thing, I mean how would you feel if your boss said you shouldn't be doing anything in your life but work. He suggested that the Devs should not play EVE instead of fixing it, not that they should not do anything in their life besides working. It might come as a shock to a fanboi like you, but there's a huge difference.
Vasiliyan Aliastra	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:27:00 - [14] Write an EVE-specific profiler. You cannot optimise what you cannot accurately measure.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:28:00 - [15] I would take a close look at exactly what data each client recieves. You only need detailed information on ships you have locked, or are directly interacting with. Other data, such as ship type and location should be multicast for the current grid. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Darren Facet Kinda'Shujaa Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:38:00 - [16] Edited by: Darren Facet on 02/04/2007 10:37:46 Software optimization. And this is only possible with a framework of rigid testing and automatic testing (unit tests) in place. Otherwise the risk of breaking things and introducing hidden bugs that lead to corruption of the database is very high. From all I've heard CCP relies to much on off-the-shelf products. They use very sophisticated hardware (huge amounts of battery backed up RAM as virtual DB hard disks for example), but their software is lacking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I've heard is that they use Microsoft SQL Server on top of this hardware. I really hope their nodes do not run Windows, or that'd explain a lot (Not bashing Microsoft here - I run several Win 2003 Servers myself, and they are great. Except Windows does not handle more than 100% load gracefully. But I've seen Unix machines at 1000% load and they just went on, if slowly, and easily recovered). If your business depends on real-time server software, you're better of writing the core of it from scratch, on a very low level (Or at least one level lower than the top level application). Think google. If you build on top of huge frameworks and server software with vast functionality (90% of which you never need, hello SQL Server...), you're not going to build a reliable server environment. You build on top of other people's bugs that you cannot fix yourself. You build on other people's design and performance decisions you cannot change, even if they don't apply to you business case. SQL Server wasn't written for MMORPGs. You will hit a dead end when you can no longer improve your software, and all that's left is hardware or feature cuts. I think CCP has reached that point.
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:53:00 - [17] Kick out all accounts/players who whine about lag, inbalance, titans, Chribba or anything related to bears or evil things that blow ships up No but seriously...i'd keep on rolling like it is now. They ARE working on it, just that things don't happen like snap. It's easy to judge the grassgrowth from the other side of the fence, standing on astroturf Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. I am not singing Ducktales.
sci0gon Tech 2 Ammo Holdings Limited	Posted - 2007.04.02 10:59:00 - [18] put back in the old gang system for starters. remove the voice programe added. re-do the game engine to test for issues with lag and keep on doing it till the lag issue was a lot better then what it is at the moment with so many players within 1 system
Hon Kovell Gallente Intaki Peace	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:17:00 - [19] Auto-delete all accounts in any system that hits 200 people. There may be a few complaints to begin with, but since none of the deleted people can post it won't be too bad. Sure to begin with it will be used to wipe out other alliances but people will adapt. People can still create a new account and get back into the fight so numbers of players won't necessarily drop but the change will encourage them to spread out. It might also help to delete accounts from grids with greater than 50 people.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:17:00 - [20] Pretty much what they are doing at the moment, come up with new mechanics to POS warfare so you donÆt need an uberblob to achieve anything. Plus I'd change super-capital construction to being spread across multiple arrays in multiple systems - to build the final ship you have to drag the parts to a planet in freighters much like an outpost egg then wait for Downtime and out pops a ship ready for boarding. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Pretty much what they are doing at the moment, come up with new mechanics to POS warfare so you donÆt need an uberblob to achieve anything. Plus I'd change super-capital construction to being spread across multiple arrays in multiple systems - to build the final ship you have to drag the parts to a planet in freighters much like an outpost egg then wait for Downtime and out pops a ship ready for boarding. It wont solve the problem, only transfer it! A ship can only be built at the speed of its slowest part. So insted of a Giant Blob once, you will get a Giant Blob many times. The Correct way to attack is lockdown the system in advance and then send in capitals. E.G EC-P incident. Otherwise Capital ships WILL die by the dozen.
Gaius BaItar	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:29:00 - [22] One way to reduce lag is to reduce the amount of time that is spent on the server side, calculating trajectories, distances and different parameters related to ships and systems. This could be done by reallocating some of this calculation to clientÆs computers. Considering the power of PCs today, imagine how much this would free the server. Less work for server means more available power to serve more clients, thus less lag.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan Originally by: Gabriel Karade Pretty much what they are doing at the moment, come up with new mechanics to POS warfare so you donÆt need an uberblob to achieve anything. Plus I'd change super-capital construction to being spread across multiple arrays in multiple systems - to build the final ship you have to drag the parts to a planet in freighters much like an outpost egg then wait for Downtime and out pops a ship ready for boarding. It wont solve the problem, only transfer it! A ship can only be built at the speed of its slowest part. So insted of a Giant Blob once, you will get a Giant Blob many times. The Correct way to attack is lockdown the system in advance and then send in capitals. E.G EC-P incident. Otherwise Capital ships WILL die by the dozen. Why blob one system when you can spread out and hit multiple ones at the same time? All of which are critical to building the ship. At the moment there is no incentive because there is just one target in one system. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
mr bighelmet EnTech Pax Familia	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:33:00 - [24] Edited by: mr bighelmet on 02/04/2007 11:29:19 the moment a system hit 200 player cut down all unnescery calculation. No tracer, no missile explosion, no NPC. system hit 300, no guns, no belts, cut down anything u can spare. If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest
Amitabh Bachchan	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: Amitabh Bachchan Originally by: Gabriel Karade Pretty much what they are doing at the moment, come up with new mechanics to POS warfare so you donÆt need an uberblob to achieve anything. Plus I'd change super-capital construction to being spread across multiple arrays in multiple systems - to build the final ship you have to drag the parts to a planet in freighters much like an outpost egg then wait for Downtime and out pops a ship ready for boarding. It wont solve the problem, only transfer it! A ship can only be built at the speed of its slowest part. So insted of a Giant Blob once, you will get a Giant Blob many times. The Correct way to attack is lockdown the system in advance and then send in capitals. E.G EC-P incident. Otherwise Capital ships WILL die by the dozen. Why blob one system when you can spread out and hit multiple ones at the same time? All of which are critical to building the ship. At the moment there is no incentive because there is just one target in one system. If there is multiple systems, then the attackers will blob each once at a time to guarentee the highest chance of sucsess. And if CCP used your idea, since a ship is built as fast as the slowest component, there is no incentive to attack more than 1 pos. You really think people would break up their gangs and fly in smaller groups?
Verone Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.04.02 11:38:00 - [26] I'd hire 150 psychotic sado masochist dominatrixes (like lucy liu in that Mel Gibson movie Payback) to beat, whip and do things of a carnal nature to the Development team until they fixed the coding and all this POS malarkey. >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Dr Slaughter Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.02 12:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Verone I'd hire 150 psychotic sado masochist dominatrixes (like lucy liu in that Mel Gibson movie Payback) to beat, whip and do things of a carnal nature to the Development team until they fixed the coding and all this POS malarkey. That sounds like much more fun than playing EvE. Where can I sign up to join the dev team?
Bangoura Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.02 12:08:00 - [28] Remove NPC's Would be a crap choice from a business point of view but meh
Afganec Minmatar R.u.S.H. - Fanatics Ultima Rati0	Posted - 2007.04.02 12:39:00 - [29] Edited by: Afganec on 02/04/2007 12:37:15 Since CCP can't handle 1000 people gathering in one system, they should change game mechanics. Titan was supposed to kill blobs, but it just created more blobs, since fleets are not afraid of if, but everyone want to shoot it down. For pvpers there are only 3 'types' of missions. Camping, hunting for hunters and large scale fleet pos wars. Only the third brings win for an alliance. Once CCP gives us targets that will need 1000 people to fight in the whole region to achieve something valuable lag issue is half solved.
Harisdrop Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.02 13:42:00 - [30] I say for every whine post you make you loose the ability to login for 1 week. We then would have less whiners whining on the forums whining that a great game is not upto thier specs...

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