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Enon Rab	Posted - 2007.04.03 01:50:00 - [1] If I wanted to do PvP I would do PvP. I do Not need other players Coming into My missions to grief me. Why is this allowed?
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.03 02:14:00 - [2] Do it in high sec then =P (doesnt stop griefters from doing it though.. but yeah mission griefing in HIGH SEC can count as harrassment if no wardec, etc..) but yeah if you are in low sec, you are pvp enabled. simple as that. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Jei'son Bladesmith Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium	Posted - 2007.04.03 04:42:00 - [3] Why shouldn't it be? If you don't want to get into PvP fine, stay in high-sec where its nice and safe and people can't screw with you unless you give em a opening to do so, but if you're not willing to shoulder the extra risk, why should you be entitled to the extra rewards of low-sec? *☼☼☼ Confidence keeps you alive...cockiness will get you podded ☼☼☼*
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.03 06:17:00 - [4] Because Eve is a PVP game really. If you do missions in low security space (0.4 or less), then players are allowed to attack you. Try doing missions in 0.5 space or above. You will get less Loyalty Points and rewards/bonus though. Try teaming up with other players and doing missions together so you can protect eachother. I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.04.03 08:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith Why shouldn't it be? If you don't want to get into PvP fine, stay in high-sec where its nice and safe and people can't screw with you unless you give em a opening to do so, but if you're not willing to shoulder the extra risk, why should you be entitled to the extra rewards of low-sec? This teh extra rewards are not enough to compensate you for your dedicated mission ship as diference in rewards are not so great comparing to 0.5 sytem. ie How long it take you make 0.5b more in losec then in hisec ? (and thats still cheap raven setup make it 4b+ for more experienced ppl)
Jak Silverheart Minmatar	Posted - 2007.04.03 10:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Petrothian Tong Do it in high sec then =P (doesnt stop griefters from doing it though.. but yeah mission griefing in HIGH SEC can count as harrassment if no wardec, etc..) but yeah if you are in low sec, you are pvp enabled. simple as that. This is a PVP game, we dont need a Wardec or reason to come attack. High Sec only makes you safer not safe, if someone comes in an blows you up in a mission there it doesnt qualify as harassment, after all your Free Game. YARRR!!! Originally by: Scordite Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi?
EscapeArtist Caldari Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.04.03 11:56:00 - [7] If you come into low sec, and do misson... You are fair game. If you get probed out, its because a team/solo pirate took the time and the risk. You could always fit wStabs and look at local. But if your found, it's one of those things, pirates have to pay the bills some how. ---- Yarrrrr... I'm a pirate! Give me all your booty, or I'll put my heavy missle in your **** decks hold! ------ I am Legend
kill0rbunny Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Enon Rab If I wanted to do PvP I would do PvP. I do Not need other players Coming into My missions to grief me. Why is this allowed? How about WoW? Pew Pew!
CPL Nobbes	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:35:00 - [9] Quote: Because Eve is a PVP game really It's quite interesting that this is said over and over by gankers and Devs all the time. Usually as an excuse for griefing but also I suspect more because the people saying take it as an article of faith. Unfortunately as with most articles of faith the reality is somewhat different. Many many missions versus NPC enemies, most linked to Eve backstory missions handed out by NPC agents CCP advertising upgrades, changes etc to the agent/mission system (all from and versus NPC) For a PvP game it certainly has a lot of PvE content. So once and for all, stop trying to justify your enjoyment of ruining others enjoyment by hiding behind "it's a PvP game".
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.04.03 12:47:00 - [10] ^That my friend, is an Association Falacy. Presence of PvE content does not imply that EvE is a PvE game. It's a primairly PvP game wiyth some PvE elements. Besids, what ever happened to reading that big "This is low sec" message?
annoing Amarr The Imperial Assassins	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:07:00 - [11] Listening to all you cough pirates muppets calling this game PvP only makes me giggle into my carebear collection. Read the advertising to the game, read the magazine interviews with the devs, with Magnus etc and 2 images come to mind. 1 is of a game that allows and even actively encourages PvP and the other side is 2, a game where you can avoid PvP play and make a career as a merchanter, manufacturer or whatever. So 2 distinct facets to this game. PvP child or mature carebear loving miner > so those who say its PvP, please dissapear to a nice low sec and play yaaaar me heartys. Carebears, please be nice and dont talk to the sad little PvP bullies, just blame their parents for not using contraception. Devs? Please remember not everyone wants to PvP just as not everyone wants to carebear. Stop trying to blur the edges and try to cater for all kinds of player. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Long live the Inquisition Long live the Emperor Long live Amarr! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Red Rumurder	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:12:00 - [12] Originally by: EscapeArtist If you get probed out, its because a team/solo pirate took the time and the risk. what risk is this for you actually? you probe us down. holy **** thats a crime - not - no issues there. you come in your disposable ship set up for ganking while we our set up to tank that specific rat, the rats don't switch targeting to you, not 1 so where is the risk - ccp make it so anyone coming in gets targeted as well then sure bring it on but right now we got 14 BS and friends shooting us at once, then you or a group of your friends come in and not break my tank cause no way in a 1 on 1 fight you break it, you more or less push the npc dps over the edge and they get us. so i still don't see your risk compared to ours. love to see the face on someone coming to gank when 7 BS leave me and pop you ass in pure gank ship. now i have never been probed down, and if that happened to me i would avoid it but that's only cause of my 0.0 and war experience. honestly the rewards for low security mission running is so not worth the risk. CCP wants more people in low sec/0.0 they shouldn't make it so easy for pirates. wheres the risk for them compared to reward of faction fitted raven worth over 1 BIL isk. seriously where is there risk?
EscapeArtist Caldari Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Red Rumurder Originally by: EscapeArtist If you get probed out, its because a team/solo pirate took the time and the risk. What risk is this for you actually? So whatÆs the issue, we are not at risk coming in and hunting mission types? We are in the same spot as anyone else in low sec, we have ever other pirate corp and anti-corp baring down on us, as well as a criminal counter, sentys and any other punk that wants to take a pop. I've done the misson thing, and been probed out myself, its just the way of the world. But you are right, we fly disposable setups designed to gank... So sue us, if a player is daft enough to enter low sector with a ship they can't afford to loose, more fool them. Piracy is a legit career path in EvE like manufactures, Privateers and nanoships. Seriously, EvE is a PvP focused game, and low sector is a prime example of where a Anti-P corp could setup and make a killing, but they don't. Entering low sec is a risk you take, and with JTZ pirates have it even harder now. If youÆve never been tracked down, how can you complainà I donÆt mind if ppl warp out, feel free to, but donÆt ctrl q. ------ I am Legend
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 13:53:00 - [14] HAHAHAhahahaha!! God I love it! --- Mods stop nerfing my sig! Err - what sig? - Timmeh Yes quite!
Enon Rab	Posted - 2007.04.03 15:33:00 - [15] The problem with saying do missions in high-sec is that that does not stop them from coming in and salvaging all your wrecks and now CCP has helped them by letting them salvage your wrecks without taking the loot so you can't do anything. And why is it that most of the gankers look for people that do not have a chance in hell. Could it be that the are not looking for PvP but are looking just to grief other players and CCP does everything they can to help them.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.03 15:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Enon Rab not looking for PvP but are looking just to grief Would guess most are looking for profit through PvP (which is common trait for most traders, manufacturers etc). In my view it becomes griefing only when their only 'benefit' is to hear the lamentation of their victims.. But they aren't there to look for fair fight either. Some people might figure how to reduce lowsec mission risks enough to reap the benefits. For others it might be best to stay in high sec noob corps. CCP merely gives us options; try and pick the one that suits you best. -Lasse
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 16:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Enon Rab The problem with saying do missions in high-sec is that that does not stop them from coming in and salvaging all your wrecks and now CCP has helped them by letting them salvage your wrecks without taking the loot so you can't do anything. And why is it that most of the gankers look for people that do not have a chance in hell. Could it be that the are not looking for PvP but are looking just to grief other players and CCP does everything they can to help them. Wow, what's got stuck in your ass? If you want to play a completely solo game, what the hell did you pick a Massively Multiplayer Online Game for? If you want to have exclusive salvage rights in your missions, bring an alt with 4 tractor beams and 4 salvagers. Otherwise just accept that this is a game that revolves around player interaction. How carebear can someone possibly get... And besides, it's not like every mission you run gets invaded, unless you have alot of determined people probing you out, and you're the only one in system, in which case you need to take a hint. Now stop whining. --- Mods stop nerfing my sig! Err - what sig? - Timmeh Yes quite!
Enon Rab	Posted - 2007.04.03 16:14:00 - [18] You win. as of June 22 I will not be playing EvE. I see very little point in EvE other than Getting screwed.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 16:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Enon Rab You win. as of June 22 I will not be playing EvE. I see very little point in EvE other than Getting screwed. Can I have your stuff? --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.03 16:40:00 - [20] The game isn't for everybody, that's for sure. Since you're staying until June though, try to keep an open mind in the meantime. I think the game is an immense change of perspective from other MMOs that do a lot more hand holding and tablesetting. For a great many people, it ends up offering a lot--in some ways more than any game out there. Good luck to you regardless. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Vannilla Venom Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.03 17:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Enon Rab The problem with saying do missions in high-sec is that that does not stop them from coming in and salvaging all your wrecks and now CCP has helped them by letting them salvage your wrecks without taking the loot so you can't do anything. That's a valid point imo.There are penalties for doing naughty stuff in safe sec.Stealing salvage should be no different to stealing from a can.Is this just an oversight by CCP or is it a feature? Back on topic-Are you quitting because people can steal your salvage in safe space or because you can be probed and ganked in non safe space?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.03 17:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Vannilla Venom Originally by: Enon Rab The problem with saying do missions in high-sec is that that does not stop them from coming in and salvaging all your wrecks and now CCP has helped them by letting them salvage your wrecks without taking the loot so you can't do anything. That's a valid point imo.There are penalties for doing naughty stuff in safe sec.Stealing salvage should be no different to stealing from a can.Is this just an oversight by CCP or is it a feature? I think it's clearly intended. Not to enable griefing, but rather to make salvaging a viable profession. In RL, there's some precedent for this too in marine wreckage laws. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Davis Valdran	Posted - 2007.04.03 17:33:00 - [23] Hiya folks, I havent played eve too long on this character, I have also been lucky enough to manage to stay out of pvp until I get stronger. i agree its a pvp game but I have seen people in big ships blowing up people in their ibis in high sec and getting away. I also dont mind getting blown up its part of the game but say a group targets one person and blows them up throughout theeir whole gaming session that day 10 times or more? To me thats out of order. I actually want to get into pvp and I am not moaning here all I am saying is when does it become simple pvp to harrasment? I reckon both cases happen in pvp type MMOGGS having played a few. On the other hand you get players screaming harrasment when the get killed maybe once. Its a hard balance to strike , if people just used common sense. I would like to try being a pirate at some pont but If I had just killed someone and I seen them 2 mins later in a new ship trying to avoid me I would let them go. In reality it would probably be me trying to get away after being killed lol but I think I have made my point about people just using a bit common. Im enjoying the game :-) thus far by the way......Im just saying I can see both sides of the argument on this thread having been at both the giving and recieving end in pvp games. I have never repeatadly killed some one over and over in one gaming session when they are doing pve , cmon people doing that is all about ruining the other persons game? Why else do that? If its for enjoyment in this context then its all about having fun at the expense of someone elses misery in the same way if you currently hurled abuse and bad language at them through mails and tells. Im trying to show both sides of the coin here, I have got on great and had know hassle thus far but Im just saying if players act mature about it and give themselves license for a bit fun yes but try to think about the consequencies on the newbs game and how they would feel if they couldnt progress in eve because they got killed every 5 mins before they could get a few skills trained Dave
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 17:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Davis Valdran I have seen people in big ships blowing up people in their ibis in high sec and getting away. No you haven't. Either they were at war and PvP is allowed, and an Ibis is hardly a devastating loss, or it was a suicide gank (on an Ibis ffs) and the aggressor will have lost his ship to CONCORD. You don't quite understand what Eve is about. it's not cute and fluffy like WoW. Yes, you can get your mission deadspace invaded. In losec you can get ganked by anyone. People steal your ore. People scam you on contracts. Alts spam Jita local. Jita exists. etc, etc. Eve is a harsh, PvP-oriented game. The guys at CCP were clever enough to include many deep and excellent PvE aspects to this game, but at it's heart it's based on player vs player combat. Even if you want to be the softest bear in the game, people who want to grief you can, because otherwise Eve would be exactly like WoW, and no one wants that. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.03 17:52:00 - [25] It's hard to say anything without knowing the specifics, but if someone is going out of their way to make you as a player miserable it can, depending on the circumstances, qualify as harassment and should be petitioned. Also, if somebody initiates hostilities and a criminal flag in HiSec without a WarDec, and doesn't lose their ship to Concord, that's a kind of exploit and should also should be brought to the attention of the GMs. I think in general that while these rules apply to everybody, that the GMs are even more interested in protecting people new to the game, especially in the starter systems. Hope some of that helps. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Davis Valdran	Posted - 2007.04.03 17:53:00 - [26] Edited by: Davis Valdran on 03/04/2007 17:50:27 Yeah m8(Marquis Dean), I have come across our type in other pvp games and you would be one of the people who scream the loudest if you got ganked every second you were on. So you think its fine to constantly kill the same person over and over so they cant play the game? Just putting it simply now ........Im not against pvp im against people using pvp to justify being total a holes.
Davis Valdran	Posted - 2007.04.03 17:56:00 - [27] Edited by: Davis Valdran on 03/04/2007 17:54:54 Agree Tsanse , Im not the one complaining here by the way Im just trying to say that its a hard balance to strike and Im trying to see both sides of the argument but some people just see it all one sided. I must stress I want to be a pirate , I have also been attacked but warped away and had np with it, I want to participate in pvp . As said Im not moaning I just hate to see people looking at things in a one sided way thats all to do with their own interests in the game and not the game as a whole.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 19:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Davis Valdran Edited by: Davis Valdran on 03/04/2007 17:50:27 Yeah m8(Marquis Dean), I have come across our type in other pvp games and you would be one of the people who scream the loudest if you got ganked every second you were on. So you think its fine to constantly kill the same person over and over so they cant play the game? Just putting it simply now ........Im not against pvp im against people using pvp to justify being total a holes. I'm going to assume 'our' is supposed to be 'your'. Just because i'm disagreeing with you, doesn't mean I automatically qualify into a special class of 'griefers' that exists in your head. I'm not a griefer, i've never griefed anyone, the closest i've come is being with Privateers briefly. When I was in PRVTR, I managed to lose over 600 million worth of stuff, but I posted all my losses and I never complained, even when a Drake i'd owned for less than 15 minutes got megablobbed. I got ganked alot. Yes it is fine to kill someone over and over again. If you're getting killed over and over again, then you're doing something wrong. If you're mission running in losec, get out of losec. If you're mission running in hisec, then you're doing something stupid to give them agro on you. And the end of the day, Eve is adapting or surviving. What never solves the problem is coming to the forums and whining, but some people don't bother to consider that. And at the end of the day, if you don't like Eve, quit. The OP figured that out. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Roy Gordon Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:55:00 - [29] For those who claim that EvE is a 'PvP only game', I will refer you to the news story by Hammerhead. As you can see, non-PvP game elements will be coming on line. Just for the record that was. Whilst I have some sympathy for those who dont like their mission running disturbed by gankers and pirates etc, this is the very activity which is featured heavily in SF films/books/comics etc. Whilst annoying, it is totally in keeping with the genre. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.04.03 23:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Davis Valdran Im not against pvp im against people using pvp to justify being total a holes. Where do you want us to be total a holes then? In RL? This is a game, ffs. People are allowed to be evil in this game to a degree not permitted in RL, and even in many other games. It's roleplay! It's a fantasy. It's recreation. Why is that so hard to understand? No one has actually peed in your cheerios, they only virtually peed in your virtual cheerios. None of it is real, none of it is lasting. Get a grip. Or, look at it from the other angle: non-consentual PvP is a valid playstyle, permitted by the rules. Why do you want to interfere in another player's preferred style of play? It works both ways. -- Guile can always trump hardware --

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