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Salvaging Business Problems

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Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.04.03 04:44:00 - [1] Edited by: Signaldog on 03/04/2007 04:44:18 So I lost my Hyperion, no big deal...but it really puts a damper on your wallet. So I decided to take part of the insurance money and start a Salvaging/Looting Business. Bought a ship, couple of tractors, etc. and got started. This is when we realized we had some problems. 1) The only good way to do it is through a Gang arrangement where the salvager/looter follows the gang around during a mission to police up wrecks. The reasoning for this is simple, in order to get the loot/salvage before the wreck pops, you have to be there in less than an hour. Here's the problem. Once the mission finishes, the pilot who accepted the mission runs off to station or gate to speak to an agent. During this time, the slavager, still in the gang, cannot tractor and receives an aggression flag from the corporation of his own gang members. This makes it very dangerous (more than just being in the same space as a bunch of NPC Killers in a ship with no guns :D) to provide a service to other pilots. I've been going this for awhile now, and the response has been immediate. Everytime I log on, someone convo's me and asks me to pull out of the station and get their stuff while they kill baddies. 2) There is no contract option that is easy to understand for the hiring of another pilot for either a specific amount of time (such as the duration of a mission or a player set time) or to hire for a specific system (star system, sorry) to complete the salvage mission. This means that everything is done on the honor system, which while usually okay (has been for me so far) is always a risky business. People in EVE will get you if you let them. This problem also does not allow the "client" who hired the salvager to verify that the salvager has, in fact, given up all the salvage/loot that was collected. Problem 1 above is of course the most important, as this severely limits the salvager/looter business venture as pilots in the gang must be outside a station and in the same system to allow me to loot. The easy fix for this is to remove the constraint and allow any member of an active gang, whether the actual owner of the wreck/can is there or not, to tractor and/or loot/salvage the wreck/can without receiving and aggression flag. Any comments? Thanks to all the EVE pod pilots who fly straight and play honest. We do appreciate it. :D
Roid Hound	Posted - 2007.04.03 23:38:00 - [2] Sounds good, i've had the same or similar problems when running salvage for my crews...seems like an easy enough fix if CCP actually reads this. :P (Lots of love to CCP) Would make salvaging a viable career...could probably get a bunch of people into it if it was built as a career path instead of just as a sideline thing. Missioning and mining gets boring after awhile. :D
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.04.15 22:27:00 - [3] No one has any comments?
Frecator Dementa	Posted - 2007.04.23 11:20:00 - [4] I'd like to see all mission wrecks that go "poof" turn into a system wreck belt... just like an asteroid belt only full of wrecks. Let that belt be "salvageable" similar to mining... belt wrecks will have only say... 25% of the normal salvage inside or something like that
Ischia	Posted - 2007.04.23 13:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Signaldog No one has any comments? Some system where people could really engage in salvage would be great. I'd like to see wrecks revert to 'public' ownership after, say, 2 hours and remain for a much longer time so that people could scan for wrecks and clean them up. However, based on my very limited understanding of EVE design, this would place too much load on the server. So -- if my preferred option is not available, what are it's key features, and how can they be simulated? Key Features: ------------ 1. Ability to be a real scavenger and clean up other peoples wrecks (perhaps after a delay) 2. Ability to come back after more than 2 hours to do a cleanup job. So...perhaps... --------------- - When wrecks would currently disappear, create a 'Debris Field' object containing all the multitude of wrecks. - Allow people to scan for debris fields. - allow people to bokmark (automatically?) their own debris fields. - once something becomes a debris field, it is public - When anyone warps to a debris field they find a pathfinder beacon that takes them to an instance...or it instantiates the junk...etc This seems to satisfy the requirments. Maybe create missions to clear debris fields.
Ischia	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Ischia When wrecks would currently disappear, create a 'Debris Field' object containing all the multitude of wrecks. Upon further reflection: - this even seems consistent with the way freighter wrecks are handled (ie. one big item) - it makes an interesting kind of physical sense: after a while a loose collection of wrecks will coalesce into on cloud of junk.
Hajo Vosa Gallente Corp Delivery Service	Posted - 2007.04.24 16:56:00 - [7] Edited by: Hajo Vosa on 24/04/2007 16:53:48 I have never problems with Salvaging/Looting. Here is my way... I make my LVL 3/4 Mission with Ishkur/Myridion ....and make Bookmarks from one wreck in the stage with the Time I begin the Fight. If more than one Stage, then do the same in the other Stages. Then finish Mission, take my Megathron (4 Beams/Salvager,3 Salvaging Rigs,4 Cargo Expander II,Afterburner,Microwarpdrive) and collect all Loot/Salvaging Stuff. Normaly I get all wrecks, only if the DT comes, or a Servershutdown. So I don¦t think that there is a problem. But I agree that there must be chance to give other the right to Loot/Salvage without any punishment. Fly safe Hajo Vosa
Maxpie Split Infinity	Posted - 2007.04.24 17:28:00 - [8] I think they should make the wrecks (not the loot) free for anyone to loot. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:19:00 - [9] Edited by: Signaldog on 24/04/2007 19:15:54 Frecator/Ischia - Thanks for the comments and i agree that a salvagable "Field" would be a viable option for unsalvaged stuff... Hajo - I understand u loot your own wrecks, but i'm talking about those of us who salvage as a profession, salvaging and looting others missions for a fee. The gang issue only affects those of us looting OTHERS missions. Maxpie - Wrecks ARE free to salvage by anyone...only grabbing the loot causes an agro flag. Thanks to CCP for fixing part of that issue by allowing us to do it while players are in system but docked...now take it the next step huh? READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Chruker	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:15:00 - [10] It would be nice if CCP would make the wrecks show up on the probe scanner system. Atm. they do not. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering

Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:18:00 - [11] I want my damn salvage drones. Right now you can setup a domi/myrmidon with all salvage stuff in the highs, and the usual tank and roll over missions with the added bonus of being able to salv on the fly, since said ships use dronespace rather than highslots to do damage. Salvage drones would let gun/missle boats do the same, but the other way around. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Ischia	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Signaldog Frecator/Ischia - Thanks for the comments and i agree that a salvagable "Field" would be a viable option for unsalvaged stuff... Wish they'd do something here; just did another long agent mission (one step, but many spawns)...took almost 2 hours of fighting. Bye the time I got around to looting, wrecks were disappearing. I'd like to have a chance to salvage my own wrecks, at least...even if I have to fight off scavengers, lol.
Signaldog Gallente Venom. THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.04.29 04:18:00 - [13] Thanks for the comments guys, keep em coming. READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Shichiro Arasaka	Posted - 2007.04.29 16:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Ischia Originally by: Signaldog Frecator/Ischia - Thanks for the comments and i agree that a salvagable "Field" would be a viable option for unsalvaged stuff... Wish they'd do something here; just did another long agent mission (one step, but many spawns)...took almost 2 hours of fighting. Bye the time I got around to looting, wrecks were disappearing. I'd like to have a chance to salvage my own wrecks, at least...even if I have to fight off scavengers, lol. Quick tip. If the wreck is a long way Ie 100km + you can warp to it.
Signaldog Gallente Venom. THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.05.01 23:30:00 - [15] new thought that came from the "salvager ship" thread: Make anyone flying a salvager specific ship (when we get one and it if it has no weapons) immune from wars...or atleast so they don't give war decs to gang mates that they salvage for. It is a business after all. Comments? READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.02 05:13:00 - [16] alternatively do my model have 2 ships cov ops to scan ( maybe having a small corp doing this helps) coule of salvagers just hit the mission hubs and profit off the locals
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.05.11 19:12:00 - [17] bump READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Dotard	Posted - 2007.05.24 13:56:00 - [18] Edited by: Dotard on 24/05/2007 13:56:46 Edited by: Dotard on 24/05/2007 13:55:59 Are not all wrecks "free" to be salvaged by anyone? I salvage any cruiser or greater wreck no matter who kilt them. No "You are about to steal.." message comes up and no aggress happens so it is fair game IMHO. Yeah I get hollered at in local for keeping the tractoring/salvaging ship in any random gang at 50m and salvaging any wreck that is pulled into my range, that was kilt by his gang-mates, often cleaning them out of salvage before they do. Hey, the loot is left in a can for the killers so kwityercryin'. *edited fer shpellin'
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:40:00 - [19] Yes, the salvaging of wrecks is a free for all, no aggro for salvaging. I'm talking about a legit business here...if we're ganged, i should be able to open their cans and/or take from their wrecks without agro regardless of whether they are in the same system or not. READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.06.09 23:49:00 - [20] bumpage READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!

Mzilikazi	Posted - 2007.06.10 02:21:00 - [21] Salvage in an Interceptor. This removes the need for tractor beams since with a MWD you can approach each wreck much more rapidly than with a tractor beam. You also won't get criminal flagged or anything like that as long as you don't take any loot from the wrecks. Salvage goods can be retrieved from any wreck, nobody owns them. In addition you will have more high slots to fit with salvage mods so you can salvage a wreck much faster with 2, 3 or 4 mods activated on one wreck. If you're caldari try the raptor, it makes fast
Jurgen Cartis	Posted - 2007.06.11 18:34:00 - [22] I'd be happy if you could tractor other people's wrecks, with the same penalty as stealing their loot. Would make cleaning up after gangs much easier when they all decide to warp off and do something else. Fortunately my buddies are good about not fleeing system immediately, but when they head off two jumps to turn in the mission, I hate slowboating out the wrecks in a salvage cormy. Would also allow dedicated salvagers to clean up the wrecks that pile up at COSMOS sites easier. Anyone who has been into one of those sites can tell you, the wrecks pile up fast and the warp in lag as you load the grid is terrible. The other thing I'd like is for wrecks not to despawn if you're on grid with them.
Lux Simian	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Mzilikazi Salvage in an Interceptor. Nice a fast, but too small. The speed of the interceptor is nice, but given that most of the time you're only going short distances its not worth having to warp in and out of missions full of cargo. I salvage in a cruiser, actually a vexor as I was also anticipating salavge drones. This gives me 4 (or if you really want to go crazy 5 high slots) to fit salavgers. Mid slots are an AB, Cap Battery and Recharger (well i had them kicking around). Low Slot 2 Overdrives, Nano and Inertia Stabs (to be fair I have no idea if these are even remotely useful, spare kit - my entire salavger is made from salvage!) The Overdrives of course reduce cargo space, but as soon as the hold is full, i simply off line an overdrive and carry on. Now this can get upto around 6-700m/s. It also has decent cargo space, so I collect the loot at the same time. Plus I have a flight of drones and spare Railgun, in case of respawns or Claim jumpers (plus some ECM drones in case of the need to escape with the loot from enemys). The advantage of this is that it means I don't have to move my achingly slow Domi around in most missions, just aggro and kill all incoming (then use the cruiser to loot). ALTHOUGH hint hint CCP there is room I think for a specialist salvager vessel.
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.06.15 03:52:00 - [24] definitely need a specialized salvager ship, but that I guess will have to wait a bit yet... Remember folks, we're talking about salvaging wrecks AND looting for a gang you are in, either with your buddies or (like i do) as a business. READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Wyke Mossari Gallente Solar Research Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.15 12:07:00 - [25] Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 15/06/2007 12:06:11 OP makes some good points however I an understand CCP problem with leaving wrecks hanging around for a long time. Something along the following lines could make both happy. Wrecks become pooled when they expire. Wrecks become pooled when the shooter leaves the system. Wrecks become pooled for other reason CCP decide. The pool could system based with the Salvager getting a Salvage mission from an agent. Alternatively the pool could be Corp or Player based and the Salvager pulls a contract from the Player or Corp. The mission or contract pulls a bunch of wrecks from the pool and creates a Salvage mission site.
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.06.17 01:43:00 - [26] The issue isn't with leaving wrecks lying around (although I like the idea of a salvager mission :D), it's with the aggro flag and inability to tractor a wreck for salvage/loot while the person who created the wreck (by destroying a red cross) is no longer in the system. If I am still in a gang with someone, I feel I should be able to tractor their wrecks and/or loot those wrecks without getting an agro flag, even when they have moved on to the next system. Maybe a limit to 2 jumps or such from the system you are in to keep it even, but as of right now, if i'm salvaging for someone (as a CONTRACTED employee) they have to remain in the same system as their mission, whether the mission is open or not. But thanks to everyone for keeping this thread alive a little longer. READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.17 12:15:00 - [27] Originally by: Chruker It would be nice if CCP would make the wrecks show up on the probe scanner system. Atm. they do not. Would be nice, but then it would beconme a easy system to find missions runners. It is the same reason (I think) why it is not possible to scan NPC ships.
Tzesaeia	Posted - 2007.06.21 21:47:00 - [28] I liked the idea of creating a contract that allows somebody to take from any can in space owned by the contractor. This would make salvaging a proffesion save and makes it easier to quickly form a gang to salvage the loot fast. I don't think servers could amnage big quantities of loot but i have no idea.
Teiichi	Posted - 2007.06.25 05:59:00 - [29] I agree simply making a Contract for entry for (job) like a corp role for the duration of the contract i.e. number of missions Or for a set period of time say (3)hours the Sub-contractor would fill that role/'s for a set period of time while the items would be flaged for the boss if the sub-contractor still has any thing after time expires at end of mission +(30)(minuets/hours)he/she would be flaged as a thief and a preset penalty would ably i.e. loss of ISK equal to the stolen parts/preset ISK loss/criminal flaging ect ect ect all that would be in the Contract options it would also allow for other jobs like a single player or corp rep building something for a small corp with the ISK but not really wanting to have all the skills to build an outpost lets say or renting out a BPO for mining use ALL WITHOUT LEAVING YOUR OWN CORP OR JOINING AN ALLIANCE
Tonto Auri Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.06.25 10:40:00 - [30] Idea to tractoring wrecks (not cans!) is a good enough. I think I'll raise my hands for it. It also helps grinders who physically cannot salvage 100+ wrecks in, say, gallente skeletal comet and should fight in one great lag. -- .



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