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Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 19:45:00 - [31] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/04/2007 19:41:47 Alternatively, you can just fly a 10mill Interceptor, go 5 times as fast, and without the need to tank any damage atall. God i wish people started realising this. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 19:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/04/2007 19:41:47 Alternatively, you can just fly a 10mill Interceptor, go 5 times as fast, and without the need to tank any damage atall. God i wish people started realising this. If you knew anything about interceptors, you'd know that interceptors aren't always what the situation needs. Say you're in a belt, you've snared a Raven with a Taranis and it can't touch you, that's super. Then the Raven's gangmate arrives in a Vagabond/Sabre/Crow/Crusader/any interceptor/any interdictor/any assault frigate/any recon ship and either disables you, or destroys you completely. If you had a Sacriledge, then none of that would matter.Also, i'm not saying that the Sacrilege it the best tackler in the game, I said best heavy tackler. Read my post properly next time. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/04/2007 19:41:47 Alternatively, you can just fly a 10mill Interceptor, go 5 times as fast, and without the need to tank any damage atall. God i wish people started realising this. If you knew anything about interceptors, you'd know that interceptors aren't always what the situation needs. Say you're in a belt, you've snared a Raven with a Taranis and it can't touch you, that's super. Then the Raven's gangmate arrives in a Vagabond/Sabre/Crow/Crusader/any interceptor/any interdictor/any assault frigate/any recon ship and either disables you, or destroys you completely. If you had a Sacriledge, then none of that would matter.Also, i'm not saying that the Sacrilege it the best tackler in the game, I said best heavy tackler. Read my post properly next time. If you had a Sacrilege, that Raven wouldn't have been there in the first place, because he would've warped out about a dozen times already. I suggest you do not lecture me on tackling. It's really, err, not a wise thing to do. May aswell lecture Brits on being Brittish. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:15:00 - [34] Originally by: Elve Sorrow If you had a Sacrilege, that Raven wouldn't have been there in the first place, because he would've warped out about a dozen times already. I suggest you do not lecture me on tackling. It's really, err, not a wise thing to do. May aswell lecture Brits on being Brittish. Well all the Brits I know are British actually. And I don't see how the Raven is going to warp away when it's warp scrambled. Are you aware of warp scramblers? If not, i'd suggest that you actually have a great deal to learn about tackling. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:18:00 - [35] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/04/2007 20:14:25 Originally by: Marquis Dean Well all the Brits I know are British actually. Yes, that's the point im making... Originally by: Marquis Dean And I don't see how the Raven is going to warp away when it's warp scrambled. Are you aware of warp scramblers? If not, i'd suggest that you actually have a great deal to learn about tackling. You're the one with a great deal to learn about tackling it would appear. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/04/2007 20:14:25 Originally by: Marquis Dean Well all the Brits I know are British actually. Yes, that's the point im making... Originally by: Marquis Dean And I don't see how the Raven is going to warp away when it's warp scrambled. Are you aware of warp scramblers? If not, i'd suggest that you actually have a great deal to learn about tackling. You're the one with a great deal to learn about tackling it would appear. Congrats on totally failing to add anything informative in your reply. And I was correcting your spelling. How would the Raven get away then superstar-tackler? --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:24:00 - [37] It wouldn't have been there for you to tackle in the first place. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:25:00 - [38] Edited by: madaluap on 03/04/2007 20:31:49 Calm down boys and gals Raven would get away by fitting stabs, but good thing you had a interdictor with you and you just bubbled the station. You gotta love that trick ^^ /edit: Vagabond (Zooom zooom, speedship of doom, deals very good dps compared to speed and tankability, this is one of those vessels that doesnt deal high dps, doesnt have the best tank, but is so damn fast that for soloing in 0.0, its the only way to go) Ishtar (cpu tight, but still great tank and very good dps. Nos resitant aswell. Its kinda deimos without range problems, capproblems, tankproblems and still deals high dps.) Zealot/Cerberus (depends)(zealot good dps, good tank, has range, cerberus has range and good tank and reasonable dps) Munnin (good alphastrike, performs decent with ac aswell. Mostly underrated.) Sacrilege (good tackler, tank. This ship is best performer for what it should do. TANK) Eagle (good inty popper, nice fleet ship and performs good with blasters aswell) Deimos (Crap dps, average tank or high dps, crap tank. Serieusly a freacking bc can outperform this ship so easily. Why is it so expensive? Its also king of capdeath and a ***** to fit) _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:29:00 - [39] One last one Mada. Originally by: Elve Sorrow It wouldn't have been there for you to tackle in the first place. Well then if the Raven left the belt when he saw you in local, what difference could it possibly make? You aren't making any sense. Stop trying to be understated and suave because you're just talking rubbish so far. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:34:00 - [40] Originally by: Marquis Dean Well then if the Raven left the belt when he saw you in local, what difference could it possibly make? The difference is a good Interceptor pilot (Thatd be me, yes) will need less time to get him than the Sacrilege. Not to mention slowboating towards one, assuming he didnt run when you jumped in. In the end, the Interceptor is better in every situation, including if the Raven gets help. If you know your stuff, anyway. I could go and explain, but its rather pointless it would appear. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:38:00 - [41] Edited by: madaluap on 03/04/2007 20:34:32 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: Marquis Dean Well then if the Raven left the belt when he saw you in local, what difference could it possibly make? The difference is a good Interceptor pilot (Thatd be me, yes) will need less time to get him than the Sacrilege. Not to mention slowboating towards one, assuming he didnt run when you jumped in. In the end, the Interceptor is better in every situation, including if the Raven gets help. If you know your stuff, anyway. I could go and explain, but its rather pointless it would appear. In that situation yes, but if you arent ganking carebears, the best tackler is the sacrilege. Ever wondered why good gangs nevery primary it. It has crap dps but very heavy tank. Save it for last. But still you can keep on tackling till the end. Unlike a inty that gets nossed to dead, webbed/painted by huggins and than anilated in 1 volley. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:41:00 - [42] In gangs a dictor is better everytime, i still dont see the point in a Sacrilege. Give me a single situation in which a Sacrilege is the best option as, err, anything. There isn't, there's always a ship that will do it better, cheaper, faster, or usually a combination of those three. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
Lubomir Penev Gallente Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Elve Sorrow In the end, the Interceptor is better in every situation, including if the Raven gets help. If you know your stuff, anyway. I could go and explain, but its rather pointless it would appear. How do you deal with heavy nos? Or do you consider an inty isn't worth flying without a 28km scram?
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:49:00 - [44] No, you deal with them. It's reasonable easy to do aswell, assuming you don't go with the stock nano + OD speed setups. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:54:00 - [45] Originally by: Elve Sorrow No, you deal with them. It's reasonable easy to do aswell, assuming you don't go with the stock nano + OD speed setups. NO its not easy to handle heavy nos when flying a interceptor. You totaly overrate interceptors. Besides not every inty has 3 medslots to fit capinjectors, or plenty of lows for cap relays. Interdictor is the best vessel for catching people, but why do you beat up the sacrilege so bad. Are you that desperate to show everyone that ammar sucks1!11!11. It does what it does best, gets points on and keep tanking while support does the damage. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 20:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Elve Sorrow No, you deal with them. It's reasonable easy to do aswell, assuming you don't go with the stock nano + OD speed setups. Two heavy nos, one cycle. You have no cap. Your scrambler turns off. You have now ceased to be an effective tackler. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:02:00 - [47] Amarr doesn't neccesarily suck, tbh. It's just that pretty much all our ships are 'average'. Amarr ships dont actually excell at anything. We do it ok-ish, but there's always some ship out there that's better at it. Also, not all ships having the mids for Injectors or lows for Cap Relays is moot. Every Interceptor has EITHER atleast 3 lows, or 3 meds. Or both, like the Crow f.e. Fyi, my ship of choice for tackling is a Crusader. And sure, resisting nos requires some sacrifices, smaller guns sometimes, things like that. But, err, let's face it. If your job is to tackle, your job is to tackle. Technically speaking, you don't even need to fit guns. That last bit if hard for people to understand though. It's perfectly acceptable for a Sacrilege to not do any damage, and merely tank and tackle. After all, "it's buddies can do the damage". Why not so with Interceptors? Think specific setups and you'll always do better. Simple as that. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Elve Sorrow No, you deal with them. It's reasonable easy to do aswell, assuming you don't go with the stock nano + OD speed setups. Two heavy nos, one cycle. You have no cap. Your scrambler turns off. You have now ceased to be an effective tackler. Congrats, you can do simple math. Now look up cap recharge, scrambler activation cost, and do some more of that math. That Raven ain't going anywhere. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Amarr doesn't neccesarily suck, tbh. It's just that pretty much all our ships are 'average'. Amarr ships dont actually excell at anything. We do it ok-ish, but there's always some ship out there that's better at it. Also, not all ships having the mids for Injectors or lows for Cap Relays is moot. Every Interceptor has EITHER atleast 3 lows, or 3 meds. Or both, like the Crow f.e. Fyi, my ship of choice for tackling is a Crusader. And sure, resisting nos requires some sacrifices, smaller guns sometimes, things like that. But, err, let's face it. If your job is to tackle, your job is to tackle. Technically speaking, you don't even need to fit guns. That last bit if hard for people to understand though. It's perfectly acceptable for a Sacrilege to not do any damage, and merely tank and tackle. After all, "it's buddies can do the damage". Why not so with Interceptors? Think specific setups and you'll always do better. Simple as that. You can fit smaller lasers, you can fit ACs, hell you can fit your own small nos. None of it will help against heavy nos. If you know a way for an interceptor to avoid heavy nos, can you share it with us please? --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:09:00 - [50] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 03/04/2007 21:06:09 Sacrilige heavy tackler? Please, don't be stuuupid..... hahaha In world of HACs there Vagabond and there is non-vagabond HAC. Sry, might come as a shock, but that is all there is to say.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:13:00 - [51] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 03/04/2007 21:06:09 Sacrilige heavy tackler? Please, don't be stuuupid..... hahaha In world of HACs there Vagabond and there is non-vagabond HAC. Sry, might come as a shock, but that is all there is to say. Be quiet, the grown-ups are talking. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:14:00 - [52] Originally by: Marquis Dean You can fit smaller lasers, you can fit ACs, hell you can fit your own small nos. None of it will help against heavy nos. If you know a way for an interceptor to avoid heavy nos, can you share it with us please? Tackling while being nossed doesnt mean avoid it, it means knowing what to do when you're being nossed. And thus keeping your target in place. Im sorry, im not going to explain it. I like being vague, mainly because the entire point of this game for me is to figure things out for myself. And i'll let you do the same. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:14:00 - [53] Edited by: madaluap on 03/04/2007 21:11:13 Ok Elve, i think i see where you are going. But just wait a second here. why the hell did inties get gun and launcherslots than? You are probably a huge fan of interceptors only being used to tackle and not for dogfighting. Still something contradicts that statement. You use a crusader, while the malediction is a far more balanced tackler. Its a bit slower though, but that doesnt justifice your choice for a crusader. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 03/04/2007 17:30:25 Vaga wont be running with 3 gyros since that would nessesitate a shield tank, which on a cruiser with 4 slots and an MWD isnt going to be all that strong. Hail is too close to web range to be comfortable with a setup like that. 2 gyros is the closest approximation you can get to a decent build that might ever use hail[since it can fit 2 active hardeners and a MAR in the lows then] Though that is a tad cost prohibitive due to risk. You are f.... kidding me aren't you? Ok you 100% only forum ***** and no pvp. People who fit ARMORTANK or MAR on vaga should uninstall eve, like right about now. Also, "if and if" doesn't matter, in practice a vaga will never outdamage a zealot at say 20km. N.F.F. Recruitment
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:23:00 - [55] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 03/04/2007 21:19:50 Actually no, i dont think Inties should be for tackling only. It's just they're the best ships for the job. And the only way in EVE to do something best, is to dedicate your ship to it. Sure, you can tackle in a solo-setup with Interceptors, and you can dogfight in a tackling setup, but you'll be at a disadvantage. Focus every module on doing what your goal is, and you'll be best. Simple. Reason for the Crusader is twofold actually. The slot setup is slightly more to my liking, i dont see much point in webbing + scrambling if you're tackling, so that third medslot on the Malediction wouldn't do me much good. Besides that, i think the Crusader is just alot sexier. Maybe im being too direct here, i dont know. Ill happily agree that in 95% of the cases a Sacrilege can do what an Interceptor can. But i play EVE for the other 5%. To Mr Dean. Let me give you the best example i can come up with, that doesnt involve Interceptors. Why use a Sacrilege to tackle, when a Vagabond can do the same? It's tank doesnt need cap, and is sufficient to last you easily untill your backup arrives. It's a hell of a lot faster. It actually does damage, too... PS, EDIT: OMG i spotted my spelling error myself this time. EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Elve Sorrow To Mr Dean. Let me give you the best example i can come up with, that doesnt involve Interceptors. Why use a Sacrilege to tackle, when a Vagabond can do the same? It's tank doesnt need cap, and is sufficient to last you easily untill your backup arrives. It's a hell of a lot faster. It actually does damage, too... 1 - The tackler doesn't need to do damage. 2 - The Vagabond costs 4+ times as much as a Sacrilege. 3 - Vagabonds have speedtanks, otherwise they have very delicate tanks beyond a shield extender or two. The point of a Vagabond is to pick and choose fights and to be able to deal alot of pain to targets that can't hit back. It's a terrible gang tackler, it's very much a solo ship. The strongest point of a Sacrilege is that it's very powerful tank allows it to withstand the punishment being dealt but the ship it's tackling for a reasonable amount of time to allow the Sacri's supporting gang to arrive... i've typed all this before. Vagabonds do not tank well. And it does need cap, else it's mwd won't work. And if you aren't speedtanking a Vagabond, you aren't using it right tbh. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 03/04/2007 21:29:23 Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 03/04/2007 17:30:25 Vaga wont be running with 3 gyros since that would nessesitate a shield tank, which on a cruiser with 4 slots and an MWD isnt going to be all that strong. Hail is too close to web range to be comfortable with a setup like that. 2 gyros is the closest approximation you can get to a decent build that might ever use hail[since it can fit 2 active hardeners and a MAR in the lows then] Though that is a tad cost prohibitive due to risk. You are f.... kidding me aren't you? Ok you 100% only forum *** and no pvp. People who fit ARMORTANK or MAR on vaga should uninstall eve, like right about now. Also, "if and if" doesn't matter, in practice a vaga will never outdamage a zealot at say 20km. Also, 3 gyro II vaga is quite common, i'd say the average vaga set up for damage uses 2 gyros. Sorry Ryssa, But there isnt anything wrong with it. In practice a vaga can most definitly out-damage a zealot. The choice is simply a bad one due to the cost of vagabond hulls. I mean, a rupture can armor tank can it not? The vagabond has an extra mid, t2 resits, the same number of low slots, and essentialy the same powergrid, why can it not armor tank? Answer**: Cost Its simply too expensive to risk in such a way. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.04.03 22:07:00 - [58] Originally by: Nicocat And all the HACs, save the Vaga, will die a gruesome death to a Battlecruiser ^^ HACs shouldnt be flow unless you have all related skills at very least on IV. Tier 2 BC`s stand a good chance against top-end HAC`s both in terms of fitting+skills+exprience. But Tier 1s....not much. Seen a Cerberus popping Ferox like it was a paper toy. ---
Yakov Draken Minmatar Fun Inc	Posted - 2007.04.03 23:07:00 - [59] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 03/04/2007 21:29:23 Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 03/04/2007 17:30:25 Vaga wont be running with 3 gyros since that would nessesitate a shield tank, which on a cruiser with 4 slots and an MWD isnt going to be all that strong. . . . 2 gyros is the closest approximation you can get to a decent build that might ever use hail[since it can fit 2 active hardeners and a MAR in the lows then] Though that is a tad cost prohibitive due to risk. People who fit ARMORTANK or MAR on vaga should uninstall eve, like right about now. Sorry Ryssa, But there isnt anything wrong with it. In practice a vaga can most definitly out-damage a zealot. The choice is simply a bad one due to the cost of vagabond hulls. I mean, a rupture can armor tank can it not? The vagabond has an extra mid, t2 resits, the same number of low slots, and essentialy the same powergrid, why can it not armor tank? Answer: Cost Resists are an issue. The Vagabond has on average 10% higher resists on its shields than its tanks plus the resists are better balenced - you don't want a resist hole on an expensive ship. It is nice to make maximum use of a ships stats and shield tanking a Vagabond fits its resists. Having spare lows for gyro's and speed mods is sweet too. Chees
ookke	Posted - 2007.04.03 23:19:00 - [60] stabber and vagabond both have more shields than armor shieldtank rupture and muninn both have more armor than shields armortank Please, no armor tank vagabonds

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