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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente easyCredits Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.04.05 06:44:00 -
[31]
I am not really one of the old-timers, as I joined EVE during Coldwar, when CCP was just celebrating 17k players online at a weekend.
Yes, and I also feel that the community is going slowly downhill. In Forum, the smacktalk is really out of control. For roleplayers the Intergalactic Summit and EVE Library are the last niche. Corporation and Alliance Summit, might as well be deleted, because there happens the same smack as COAD Forum.
Mutual respect is non-existant anymore. For a new player a Cruiser is a great achievement, also the first BS, their first solo kill etc. But if they post something about this on the forum, even when packaging it in some kind of Roleplay story, they can only expect to be flamed.
Likewise, the first Capital Ship Kill as a corp. The only thing they would receive on the forum is: LOL! Yawn, I do this every day. Let me post about the Badger I killed yesterday!11
And do not let me get started what happens if someone posts a warning about a corp thief.
Not only some of the new players are part of the problem, also older player who enjoy smacking down younger ones, just because they are more uber.
Also that CCP employees favored a certain alliance and CCP and Kieron acted, as if recently returned from a community managment course sponsored by Sony Entertainment, did not help either.
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Kastar
Chronodynamics
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Posted - 2007.04.05 06:59:00 -
[32]
standard behaviour when masses gather.
Face the fact, out of every 100 people there are usually only 4-5 persons with an intelligence slightly bigger than the average horse. Plain and simple reality... the pyramid is always smaller at the top. The others are fodder or the ones that do the groundwork. Reality also reflects in a computergame... that's what makes MMORPG so fun to watch and play.
One might also argue that the argument is also the exact reason why democracy doesn'ty tend to work, unless slow, complex and greatly inefficient.
Face the fact, in general there's nothing wrong with any community, except that it has people in it. For about anything, it's just a matter of time before we screw up and get whining -----------------------------------------------
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.05 07:07:00 -
[33]
There are still plenty of people willing to help out. Fly to Nomaa (near Jita) and ask in local for "Sarge". He's is running an academy. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Zilkin
Amarr adeptus gattacus O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.05 07:09:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Zilkin on 05/04/2007 07:06:52 I donŠt know if the quality of this community has deterioted or not but one thing I do know, there isnŠt probably single internet or real life community where talk of the good old days doesnŠt regurarly come up, often without any basis in reality.
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Plasticine Perfection
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Posted - 2007.04.05 07:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Soporo The game itself is designed to favor the agressor, the scammer, the thief, any sort of bad meta-gaming habits, and yes, the griefer.
That sort of behavior tends to feed on itself and snowball. Why then, is anyone even vaguely suprised at the amount of vitriol present in game and on boards?
QFT.
I also think things have gone downhill since the BoB/devs cheating incident.
The stakes have got too high, the price of failure too steep. EVE is now run by people who will stop at nothing to advance, and that means stepping on everyone else.
When people see corruption at the top and at the heart then the behaviour and attitudes propagate downward.
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Kriz Lupin
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.05 07:43:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Kriz Lupin on 05/04/2007 07:40:01 Are we talking about the forum community or the in-game community? I am a relative noob to eve, only been here 18 months or so.
In game, can't say anything has changed the whole time i have been here. Few asses about, but there always has been, in my experience.
As for forums,well, who cares. Are the forums the game?
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.04.05 08:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Plasticine Perfection
Originally by: Soporo The game itself is designed to favor the agressor, the scammer, the thief, any sort of bad meta-gaming habits, and yes, the griefer.
That sort of behavior tends to feed on itself and snowball. Why then, is anyone even vaguely suprised at the amount of vitriol present in game and on boards?
QFT.
I also think things have gone downhill since the BoB/devs cheating incident.
The stakes have got too high, the price of failure too steep. EVE is now run by people who will stop at nothing to advance, and that means stepping on everyone else.
When people see corruption at the top and at the heart then the behaviour and attitudes propagate downward.
And yet people are still playing
You see, the real problem isnt in CCP, nor in BoB or the coalition, their enemies, nor the non-combatants in and around lowsec/other 0.0/empire.
Its humanity as a whole. Everyone expects everyone else to be perfect, when in reality, no one is.
Everything else is just effect to that cause.
To the op: If you want to see what is left of the "great" community there was when EVE was still young, it was never there to begin with. It was a farce, a mask, a fake.
Anyone else who speaks against that fact is too naive to see the truth. -
NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys |
Krexus
Amarr Reunited O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.05 08:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
Its humanity as a whole. Everyone expects everyone else to be perfect, when in reality, no one is.
Everything else is just effect to that cause.
QFT
This man said it all, nuff said. Community is what you make of it, helpfull people are around, one has to look harder these days that's all
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Reserved |
Logi3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.05 08:34:00 -
[39]
Most of the good people stay off the forums and post very little. Everything gets flamed or trolled currently
Back to basics, back to pirating |
Angelica Krem
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:32:00 -
[40]
Why does it seem that these kind of "the community is getting worse" posts seem to crop up maybe once or twice a year since the game came out?
Was the community so nice and loving back then? Does no one remember the forums wars in the beta and after launch?
This community is unforgiving and filled with the griefers that populate this game, suck it up or stop posting/playing.
regards, your kind next door griefer
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Shadowsword
Kermit Space Industies
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I'd say the main reason is because of POS warfare, EVE has become a much more serious game.
Before POS warfare, an entire alliance could stop playing for a week and lose very little. Even if their station was taken, they could fly back in and take it back in no time. PvP was about fun and ganks, not about massive sieges.
Today, in order to win, you need to be hardcore. The internet does indeed need to be serious business. And so those who have stayed as part of the 0.0 community have been forced to become more and more dedicated just to survive.
And it has spilled over onto the forums, and the rest of the community.
That also what i think. POS warfare isn't much fun, and with all the associated lag, suspicions of cheating, that somehow the opponent isn't as much affected by lag than youself, start flying around. And, as stakes go higher, meta-gaming also come in, bringing a whole bunch of lame tricks that makes you lose respect for those who use them.
This is what's degrading the community...
------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.04.05 10:29:00 -
[42]
Sorry, but I don't buy the 'new players' argument. A certain proportion of players will always be ... ehh ... less pleasant then others. I believe this proportion doesn't change much. As such, the chance of running into such a player, on the forums or elsewhere, shouldn't change with a larger number of players (locality has some influence though).
I think a large part of the change was of CCPs own making. The BoB/t20 affair was very poorly handled and its effects can still be felt. There were always accusations of favouritism by CCP, notably towards BoB. When they were confirmed, a lot of players I know, stopped caring as much as they used to. This is what happens when you feel you're being unfairly treated. If you feel the playing field isn't level to begin with, it is easier to complain/be rude/make jokes at the expense of others.
Yes, POS warfare is boring, but it has been around for a while now and always was boring. Yes, 0.0 is more serious now, but in some respect it always was to some, or is now as a result of the affair mentioned above. I see new players join EVE everyday in CAS, I don't think there are more dump/rude/young players joining now then there were say a year ago. Lag today is as bad as it has always been. The carebear - ebil piwate debate is as old as EVE, that hasn't changed as well.
The only thing really different is the way the community is being treated by CCP. Despite all the nice blogs, the apparent openness, and all the fluff on the homepage, a large number of (older?) players feel that their issues aren't being dealt with. Just look at all the outstanding issues that prop up over and over again on the forums (can I mention drones?).
You can politely ignore your audience only for so long before they become nasty. Allowing one group of players to get away with murder, while always coming down on the rest does not a nice community make. New players just pick up on the mood that exists already.
I think it symptomatic that I expect this post to be censored/removed. --
Originally by: Kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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MMXMMX
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Soporo The game itself is designed to favor the agressor, the scammer, the thief, any sort of bad meta-gaming habits, and yes, the griefer.
That sort of behavior tends to feed on itself and snowball. Why then, is anyone even vaguely suprised at the amount of vitriol present in game and on boards?
U need to agree with him :)
Thats all what it is This game is here so that the scum can have fun .
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heheheh
Singularity. The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:31:00 -
[44]
People left WOW and came here thats what happend. We got soooo many kids here now that just want to gank and post crap on here.
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: heheheh People left WOW and came here thats what happend. We got soooo many kids here now that just want to gank and post crap on here.
Exactly. Not to mention influxes from other immature communities.
The kind of people who have real trouble maintaining the perspective that it's "just a game". People who somehow develop burning vendettas and hatred against other players of the game. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:52:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/04/2007 11:49:42
Originally by: Kylana Darkfate PvP in general attracts the most immature kiddies with epeen issues.
Should put that in my signature. ___________ Muuuhhh !!! |
Kerosene
Caldari Fun Inc Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:02:00 -
[47]
Blame killmails imo. IT's not going to get any better while people are willy waving their kills all over the place. You think you'd get detrimental elements to the game like Privateers if there weren't kill mails?
Kero __ I really don't need BoB propaganda here any more. Let's embrace yiffy. |
Aero089
Exiled.
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:11:00 -
[48]
It is the same vicious cycle you see with popular holiday resorts. It starts with the old, calm folks looking for a nice place to settle and stay at, then after a while more younger people will join them. 10 years or less later, the youth will begin meeting each other there and become the ruling group at that spot, and with youth comes irresponsible behaviour.
The holiday resort starts focusing on the younger tourists, driving the older settlers away, and at that point the resort will go downhill.
It's hard to prevent such things from happening, and it's all a matter or dealing with it and seeing through the "less considerate" threads and replies.
EVE hasn't become all that bad, really, see things on the bright side
(Exiled. Recruitment (CEO |
Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Aero089 EVE hasn't become all that bad, really, see things on the bright side
I'm sorry, but...
Wrong.
and what bright side?
EVE's gone downhill. the t20 scandal only made it known to everyone else.
Unless CCP seriously shapes up, it'll continue to go downhill. -
NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys |
Thread Winner
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: MMXMMX
Originally by: Soporo The game itself is designed to favor the agressor, the scammer, the thief, any sort of bad meta-gaming habits, and yes, the griefer.
That sort of behavior tends to feed on itself and snowball. Why then, is anyone even vaguely suprised at the amount of vitriol present in game and on boards?
U need to agree with him :)
Thats all what it is This game is here so that the scum can have fun .
Oh what the hell is this crap you are spewing out of your mouth. You passive little worm I bet you get walked on all the time don't you? Who are you to call scum? What gives you that right?
PvP doesn't attract the "1337 kiddies" it attracts the naturally aggressive not the flower sniffing slugs that get walked on all day. Maybe you should try 2nd life that seems more your thing.
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Misanth
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:25:00 -
[51]
That's not an EvE problem. It's a society problem overall. Things like this pop up after a time, as people take stuff for granted, and then there's always bullies and people loving to prey on others for whatever reasons.. same at work, school, forums, chats, hell even your relationship with family/friends/etc, everywhere, almost always.
When things is new everything is fine and dandy, after a time you get used to it and things gets taken for granted. The more you know the less interesting it get to seek information and the more this kind of stuff pops up. EvE isn't new anymore. People got too much information they can see before even starting the game, they got all knowledge older players already had before even starting. And older players already seen most stuff happen alot, alot of them get bored with having the same question 980234 times. Especially since alot of players in online games since to have the attitude of wanting to have everything served to them, for free. "can you give me" "I am stuck in this mission come help me", not even a basic please.
As much as I hate it myself, I'd say 'get used to it', you can't escape it. It's the mentality of alot of people, don't ask me why becuase I don't understand it myself. Can just see it happen everywhere.
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Harisdrop
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:26:00 -
[52]
I want to walk around in a station and tell stories of the old days thru EVE voice to noobs just starting.
Showing them the isk I made and the ships I have in my hangar.
EVE is not what you think it is. It not a action game. It a game of 2 hours of fun. You can walk away for a day or a week and you can come back when you want. EVE is never what everyone wants it to be its what you want out of it.
You dont have to grind to play EVE.
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Tealmatar
Minmatar Industrial Warlords Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:30:00 -
[53]
I've been reading this thread with interest and found most of what has been said to be very true. I can even say I started to play eve not for the gameplay or the fancy graphics but for the community that it had created.
I've met lots of very helpful people in the 18 months of my game play, but reading the forums I've watched people just being really rude and insulting. I mean in the end this is a game and if we can't have fun and have to lower the tone to have that fun then something is seriously wrong.
I can only ask people think before posting, is this just flaming for flaming sake or have I got a serious or constructive point.
Well only time will tell. |
Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:37:00 -
[54]
As time goes by, there are fewer and fewer people left who started in beta. With the loss of the old hands, the community spirit changes. New people flood in and, where they might have picked up on the vibe a couple of years ago, they don't now. The game slowly settles towards the ground state of internet interaction: shouting, flaming, trolling and the waving of epeens.
It's sad, but I've seen it happen to all sorts of internet entities. The old community spirit is gradually lost because there's fewer and fewer people around to keep it going. It doesn't help that the average net user is an idiot, so things are always going to be dragged down to idiocy.
There are other reasons, of course. Dark Shikari's point about POS warfare is a good one. Then there's the loss of old forum members through forum bans brought about by several years of accumulated warnings. And there's the increasing accessibility of the game, which makes it easier for idiots to play it.
And don't get me started on what USENET was like in the good old days...
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Radcjk
Caldari Team Machine Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:46:00 -
[55]
Ive just woke and dont have time for a long reponse to folks yet, but I figured id check this thread again and was surprised by the amount of input in it thus far...
But to that special some one from earlier, thanks for proving half the points made. Youre truely making an effort to drag this down behind your cute little mask of alt identity. Polite and constructive or not at all, troll.
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Weird Alt
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Thread Winner
Oh what the hell is this crap you are spewing out of your mouth. You passive little worm I bet you get walked on all the time don't you? Who are you to call scum? What gives you that right?
PvP doesn't attract the "1337 kiddies" it attracts the naturally aggressive not the flower sniffing slugs that get walked on all day. Maybe you should try 2nd life that seems more your thing.
Well done I think you represent what the OP was talking about
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Thread Winner
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:48:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Weird Alt
Originally by: Thread Winner
Oh what the hell is this crap you are spewing out of your mouth. You passive little worm I bet you get walked on all the time don't you? Who are you to call scum? What gives you that right?
PvP doesn't attract the "1337 kiddies" it attracts the naturally aggressive not the flower sniffing slugs that get walked on all day. Maybe you should try 2nd life that seems more your thing.
Well done I think you represent what the OP was talking about
Or maybe I just as easily tossed out some unrealistic stereotype against a certain type of player just like every one else did
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Aero089
Exiled.
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:48:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
Originally by: Aero089 EVE hasn't become all that bad, really, see things on the bright side
I'm sorry, but...
Wrong.
and what bright side?
EVE's gone downhill. the t20 scandal only made it known to everyone else.
Unless CCP seriously shapes up, it'll continue to go downhill.
And you're a sad panda because you take offense at this. Were you personally duped? Did T2O spawn a blueprint that can remotely nuke your hangar? Is it impossible for you to do the stuff you want in EVE because of this issue?
Really, get over it. Hardly anyone was affected by this, there's no need to bring it up again, especially not in this context.
(Exiled. Recruitment (CEO |
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:02:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kriz Lupin I am a relative noob to eve, only been here 18 months or so.
How can someone call themselves a noob after playing for a year and a half? I'd think noob status would be revoked at around 2 or 3 months max, especially if a person spends anytime on forums or other web sites researching the game.
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Topaz Skydiver
Minmatar Narrative Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.04.05 13:10:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 05/04/2007 13:06:49 Maybe another problem is too much whining. Just because I'm bored or unhappy, EVE is going downhill. Whine. Maybe it's just you ?
Since someone mentioned the t20 incident, there was also too much whining.
The t20 incident finally gave those players a greencard to whine, who always cry cheat/exploit in pvp games. Of course they whined not only about what t20 has done, but everything else that might have happened. They also try to tell me that EVE is going downhill. Yes, if I see their whines I might agree.
This post is no whine of course.
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