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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Wuv'u'long'time
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:14:01 -
[121] - Quote
Trespasser wrote:i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..
But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place
i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...
You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!
Amen to that. Exactly how I feel. |
Thayla Caldari
Resilience. DARKNESS.
6
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:15:39 -
[122] - Quote
Trespasser wrote:i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..
But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place
i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...
You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!
Fozzy rolled two 10 sided dice and those are the numbers he came up with.
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Chupita Cabrra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:18:38 -
[123] - Quote
Overman wrote:Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:nm Kain wrote:If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely. It was broken in the first place. Just to the users advantage. They are re-breaking it. I think the criticism for the excavator nerf needs to focus less on the fact of nerfing an overpowered feature, but more on the inability of CCP to foresee the very predictable outcome which now CCP is compelled to balance. Instead of doing a moderate level of QA/testing, CCP released a feature. Players relied on some degree of predictable consistency by CCP and many of those players are now in the hole. HTFU and all that notwithstanding, CCP itself shouldnt be in the business of making its own patch notes a speculative industry with high degrees of risk. Players SHOULD be able to trust CCPs statements and rely on them in the short to medium term. Again, game breaking features need to be patched and some issues are unforeseen. This is not one of those instances. I'm pretty happy with the direction of CCP as of late, but their release team dropped the ball on this. People would still have been excited about rorq mining if these figures were implemented as such with these new excavator numbers. Instead you have a large pissed off player base and this anger along with lost investment by the players could have been completely avoidable
Coming from the group that makes a living off expoitinng these issues. Let me go ahead and say thanks.
Edit: but that's important here. I agree with you ultimately. Just hope they take their time on these "tweaks".....get it right. |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:18:54 -
[124] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change.
Most people did see it coming.
32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
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Brown Pathfinder
Its a good day to die
16
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:19:54 -
[125] - Quote
This is very good! Got to keep the isk income down more Also don't increase the drop yield of the drone components, you should nerf them even more Otherwise hisec income is getting stomped on, Drone A.i is like the new melted nanoribbons wich is gone to the ground now value wise. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2829
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:24:10 -
[126] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change. Most people did see it coming. 32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
He was talking about the drone AI change, which should have been an obvious incoming change even before it was loudly telegraphed by the economic report.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3006
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:25:21 -
[127] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change. Most people did see it coming. 32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
It's still a huge loss even if you start from a big number. The stupidest point about it is how mining income is actually self balancing because it all goes through the market. If it pays too much, more will mine thus inflating the offer for minerals on the market and reducing the income for mining once the demand is overcome. As opposed to that, people will now rat which is not bound by the market and also often done AFK. |
Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research Goonswarm Federation
56
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:36:17 -
[128] - Quote
So the cost of mining drones will fall, the volume of ore mined by Rorqual will decrease, but the slide in Mineral prices will be arrested, so profits should stabilize at roughly the same.
Nice boost for the lower end Miners still in Exhumers and Barges, as proportionally their mining will be a larger part of a Mining Fleet.
The only thing I would have liked to see would have been for CCP to implement a severe nerf to mining drones, but make boosts apply to them, in order to get rid of the antisocial Rorqual no boost fleets that don't help lower SP players. |
Chiana Stellan
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:37:28 -
[129] - Quote
What a waste of time it is planning for the future in eve online. Really for a game that almost entirely relies on forward thinking it's pretty stupid to hang a carrot just to snatch it away once everyone is invested in chasing it.
I literally hate you, try balancing things before you release them or just carry on ruining your great game. |
Kimsemus
Deplorables. ChaosTheory.
161
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:37:53 -
[130] - Quote
1/3 mining yield reduction on the Rorq? As if the yield wasn't already heavily balanced around a (even with the change) massive barrier to entry in terms of ISK invested, skills, exposure, and planning. Not to mention drones that basically don't fly to roids as much as "meander like on a summer walk."
But yeah, can't have null miners getting yields appropriate to their risks and exposure compared to hisec right? That'd just be crazy! |
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Andail Chanter
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:39:02 -
[131] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change. Most people did see it coming. 32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
32% is 32% whether you're talking about big numbers or small numbers. |
i make jobs
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:40:10 -
[132] - Quote
no fun allowed
new mechanic? it'll be gone in a month
balancing the risk and reward of nullsec vs highsec? nah, incursion runners should be able to make 3x what a ratter makes consistently
high risk high reward FINALLY in eve? nah let's get rid of that too cause all the poors and bads can't have that level of fun and accessibility so that has to go too
thanks for pussifying eve even more ccp |
Andail Chanter
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:43:12 -
[133] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Ted McManfist wrote:VANMISTIK wrote:Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken. That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that. Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs?
PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. |
Ultraxion
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:43:22 -
[134] - Quote
Chiana Stellan wrote:it's pretty stupid to hang a carrot just to snatch it away once everyone is invested in chasing it.
This I agree with x100. Are you guys getting enough sun over there in Iceland? Or is there another reason you consistently spread misery in the player base? |
Ted McManfist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
97
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:44:07 -
[135] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Ted McManfist wrote:VANMISTIK wrote:Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken. That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that. Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs?
Silly us, we've been mining with them. |
Asher Elias
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:50:12 -
[136] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Off label uses are fun and good, but it's a strange divergence from the normal paradigm of "No counterplay = bad".
Saying stuff like this makes you look dumb. You can just stay +10 LY away from a rorqual and they can't scram you. |
Wexa Tion
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
5
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:52:59 -
[137] - Quote
Asher Elias wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Off label uses are fun and good, but it's a strange divergence from the normal paradigm of "No counterplay = bad".
Saying stuff like this makes you look dumb. You can just stay +10 LY away from a rorqual and they can't scram you.
""Get good noob just don't get tackled lmao"" |
Callaghan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:53:11 -
[138] - Quote
Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke. |
Sakido Cain
Duragon Pioneer Group Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:53:14 -
[139] - Quote
Querns wrote:Also, apropos to the actual mining nerf, could we increase the speed of excavators?
The primary method of mining with a rorqual is to siege right on top of the rock, because of the abysmal speed of excavators. If the drones were faster, it wouldn't be necessary to do this quite as much, and it wouldn't positively affect yield a whole lot.
Querns stop using thought and reason, tossing out valid ideas with no tears, rage or unsubbing only leads to CCP believing you have an agenda. So please, next good idea, hide it in a rant. This is the only way CCP hears you.
P.S. Oh also make sure to point out how it helps FW, hurts null and keeps HS better than everything else. |
Rexxen Darkbrew
Hounds Of Haides RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:54:25 -
[140] - Quote
CCP are you nuts .. 32% nerf?? Have you seen the KB and the amount of Rorq losses..You said you wanted to add more risk/reward to mining. Right now were are at that...It is very high/risk reward currently.
Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
Rorq cannot safely mine 24/7 they have to strategically pick there window and sometimes sit out of siege quite a lot waiting on intel etc.. /watching movement of adversaries before resieging.
Might as well put them back to a off grid booster I'd rather have that then a 1/3 nerf in income...Risk no longer equals the reward,..
What a sad waste of people's time and isk, that trained for the Rorqual based on your own post of the new risk/reward and yield output system...
Rorq for sale!
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Jean-Luc II
United Federation of Planets - Star Fleet Division
3
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:56:56 -
[141] - Quote
Callaghan wrote:Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke.
Well said!!!
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2833
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Posted - 2016.12.07 18:57:16 -
[142] - Quote
Rexxen Darkbrew wrote: Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
The thing making it a "10-15b ship" right now is the cost of the excavators, which is also being adjusted, so that's sort of a hollow argument.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Casandra Elise McIntire
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:00:01 -
[143] - Quote
Callaghan wrote:Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke.
Yes this is the new business model. CCP will start putting out revamps on unused, mostly untrained ships, buff them to high heavens and then once the skill injector markets calms back down, they will nerf them back to reasonably broken levels.
Next I see Blops being given a ton of love. You know, cause small groups need better ability to fight the evil hordes. (Not cause Blops take a crap ton of training and the injector market will thrive even more.) |
Ni Neith
Hedion University Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:04:28 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals...
Can you throw one of your eyes on the ESS situation please. Why are they sill alowed on a citadel?
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nm Kain
Miners n' Mercs. DRONE WALKERS
5
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:05:41 -
[145] - Quote
Jean-Luc II wrote:Callaghan wrote:Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke. Well said!!!
Yup. Well Said +2 |
Xennos Octavian
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
1
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:06:46 -
[146] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:I can't really debate if 32% nerf is or isn't appropriate, but I do question why "0.0 mining paying too much" is the sort of game-breaking thing that requires immediate patching while "invulnerable combat ships" is not.
It is not changing my plans for a Rorqual, but I will find it annoying, nonetheless.
I am not that familiar with Fozzie's apparent fixation on "balance" between High-Sec and Null-Sec, which some people here have been complaining about, but I will put forward my own perception on the matter.
For starters, I do not see why such a drastic nerf (reducing Excavators to 2/3 their original mining capabilities) is being implemented. The Rorqual is a Capital Ship, so should it not perform at the same level as its PvE/PvP counterparts? Before, the Industrial Core just made it a booster ship that was a floating pi+Ķata if one was careless enough to have one on-grid for PvP gangs to destroy.
The recent update not only gave it PANIC to protect its mining fleet on-grid (and the bonuses to shield boosters and remote shield boosters, IIRC), but also turned it into a proper mining vessel. Now the guy in the Rorq doesn't just sit there with the Fleet Boost, and can actually contribute directly to the mining operation through their Drones.
They can even do it on their own (pre-Nerf could mine as much as five Exhumers combined), but now you've knocked down the mining yields for Ore mining (I believe they left the Ice ones untouched) by 32%. That kind of number adds up quickly: now people have to make four cycles to get the same amount of Ore which, pre-nerf, they only needed three cycles to get.
For the high-risk nature of Low and Null-Sec, is such a reduction in mining yields really necessary? |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1823
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:08:05 -
[147] - Quote
So after this change 2 of the 5 drones will effectively be made useless. However each drone mines about as much as one Exhumer, so that still leaves 3 Exhumers worth of yield. Why are people bitching?
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
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Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic Central Omni Galactic Group
66
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:09:19 -
[148] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Rexxen Darkbrew wrote: Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
The thing making it a "10-15b ship" right now is the cost of the excavators, which is also being adjusted, so that's sort of a hollow argument.
That's true, the excavators should drop in price rightly so. The amount of ore a Rorq mines is also rather high.
However, given that the risk vs reward of putting a Rorq on field is vastly unbalanced against every other nullsec form of personal ISK generation I feel it's still way out of whack.
I can deploy a carrier to a Sanctum, align to station and as long as I pay attention to local and intel I can get out usually in time. 30M a tic if I get lucky, but risk isn't too high so it's fine.
I can run in a VNI or Ishtar in a Haven, always running at speed, again if I am paying attention, I can get out fine, 15-20M a tic.
I can mine in a Skiff, or Hulk, as long as I pay attention, I can warp out a fair amount of the time.
I run a Rorq, to make it mine better than a barge I have to siege it, 5 minutes locked in place, unlike the other activities, which are solo endeavors, even if I have good intel, even if I am paying attention, I'm locked in that spot for 5 minutes. The payout is rather high, sure, it could do with a nerf, it's also playing havoc with the mineral markets. BUT, the extend feels like a knee-jerk reaction, the reward vs risk here feels really off kilter compared to other ways to make ISK.
/salt |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
195
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:10:05 -
[149] - Quote
eiedu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:... - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
... Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it? Yes, there is math behind that!
145% * 68% = 99%
The Rorqual was initially announced to have a yield of ~18400 m3 per minute. Someone forgot to put mining augmentor rigs on it, which boosted the yield by 45.475% to 29,226m3 per minute. Reducing it by 32% "cancels out" the rigs and brings it down to 19,873 m3 per minute (~10% discrepancy, probably mining drone spec?)
Things tend to need a "nerf" when you tell your economy guys to run a number, then overshoot it by 50%.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2833
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Posted - 2016.12.07 19:10:29 -
[150] - Quote
Xennos Octavian wrote:
For the high-risk nature of Low and Null-Sec, is such a reduction in mining yields really necessary?
Forget all of this Battle-Of-the-Secses business for a minute.
Do you honestly think the current rate of Rorqual mining, and the resulting increase in the mineral supply, would be a good thing for the game, long term?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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