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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14606
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Posted - 2016.12.07 15:17:45 -
[1] - Quote
Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay.
We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place.
We are planning two connected changes in this release:
- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance.
Thanks!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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VANMISTIK
GoonWaffe
3
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Posted - 2016.12.07 15:46:50 -
[2] - Quote
Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken. |
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
245
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 15:47:01 -
[3] - Quote
"Hey guys, null sec is finally getting the same ISK/hour as high sec Incursion runners, we can't have that"
Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
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Ted McManfist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
91
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 15:48:51 -
[4] - Quote
VANMISTIK wrote:Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken.
That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that. |
Sarin Blackfist
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 15:51:29 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay.
So excited in fact, that we're going to hit them with this nerf bat and see what falls out! |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2589
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 15:52:14 -
[6] - Quote
As little as it actually had to do with the Incident In Question, I have to agree that giving the PANIC module the same debuff as the Networked Sensor Array towards ewar is probably a wise idea. They'll still be considerably powerful while in PANIC as a remote rep and neuting platform while invincible, but not literally invincible hard tackle.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Lustig Allas-Rui
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 15:54:20 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah... we can't have mining paying a good ISK/hour... Invulnerable ewar is fine but never help out miners. |
eiedu
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
106
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Posted - 2016.12.07 15:56:29 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:... - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
...
Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it? |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1050
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 15:59:21 -
[9] - Quote
I can't really debate if 32% nerf is or isn't appropriate, but I do question why "0.0 mining paying too much" is the sort of game-breaking thing that requires immediate patching while "invulnerable combat ships" is not. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2590
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:03:05 -
[10] - Quote
Thinking on it, perhaps we should approach this from a different angle. If we're going to allow invincible tackle, can we please allow Heavy Interdictors to receive remote reps while activating their Warp Disruption Field Generators? Otherwise, we're completely obsoleting a subcap with the rorqual, and that seems unfair.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
246
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:04:01 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves.
Also apparently, literally everyone else besides CCP knows how the capital meta will evolve.
Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
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Baki Yuku
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
67
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:06:12 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
While I do not mind the nerf I do hope you'll increase the base speed a bit. To make mining rocks futher away more viable.. 200 meter per second base speed is simply terrible even when fitting 3 faction drone navigation computers you are looking at a max of 722 meters per second. Which means mining anything futher away then ~3000 meters is terrible. |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
789
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:07:45 -
[13] - Quote
Querns wrote:Thinking on it, perhaps we should approach this from a different angle. If we're going to allow invincible tackle, can we please allow Heavy Interdictors to receive remote reps while activating their Warp Disruption Field Generators? Otherwise, we're completely obsoleting a subcap with the rorqual, and that seems unfair.
Actually I believe the only fair solution is to add a jump drive and invulnerability mod to Heavy Interdictors. But give them a penalty to mining lasers just in case it's too strong. |
Doyey3731
Deaf Eaters Shadow of xXDEATHXx
66
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:08:04 -
[14] - Quote
Maybe reduce the panic button but also reduce the length of the siege module. 5 minutes is hardwork on the old stress levels. |
Robbert Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:08:28 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
Does this include a matching nerf to 'Excavator' Ice Harvesting Drone cycle time? |
Jita VonMarketAlt
Therapists Inc
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:11:28 -
[16] - Quote
that is a lot of salty goons.
At least you mined back all the minerals from that super welp before the nerf though. |
Tiberizzle
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
148
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:12:23 -
[17] - Quote
Baki Yuku wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! While I do not mind the nerf I do hope you'll increase the base speed a bit. To make mining rocks futher away more viable..
mfw agreeing with baki
if you're going to nerf the yield at least flatten the yield curve with distance some more, as enthralling as waiting 5 minutes to reposition is I don't think mining needs that kind of "depth" |
jack1974
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
157
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:13:05 -
[18] - Quote
Might need a new module to Excavate the tears from some of these posts |
Sarin Blackfist
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:15:19 -
[19] - Quote
jack1974 wrote:Might need a new module to Excavate the tears from some of these posts
We're 32% more salty today. |
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
74
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:15:38 -
[20] - Quote
hisec wins again |
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Baki Yuku
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
67
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tiberizzle wrote:Baki Yuku wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! While I do not mind the nerf I do hope you'll increase the base speed a bit. To make mining rocks futher away more viable.. mfw agreeing with baki if you're going to nerf the yield at least flatten the yield curve with distance some more, as enthralling as waiting 5 minutes to reposition is I don't think mining needs that kind of "depth"
I'm a fairly reasonable person always have been for the most part:) But ya the yield curve needs some serious adjustments especially with this 32% nerf. I think 300-400m/s base speed would be much more reasonable. |
Markonius Porkbutte
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:17:03 -
[22] - Quote
Sarin Blackfist wrote:jack1974 wrote:Might need a new module to Excavate the tears from some of these posts We're 32% more salty today.
At least you can still scram someone and become invulnerable for 7 minutes cause that's totally fine. |
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
74
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:17:12 -
[23] - Quote
eiedu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:... - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
... Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it?
I got a CCP 8-ball if that'll help.
10bil and i'll ship it to you. |
Overman
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
7
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Posted - 2016.12.07 16:17:44 -
[24] - Quote
lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born.. |
SidewinderFang
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:18:27 -
[25] - Quote
Raivi showing favouritism to his old Alliance once again. |
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
74
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:18:44 -
[26] - Quote
VANMISTIK wrote:Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken.
ALL HANDS ON DECK |
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
74
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:20:18 -
[27] - Quote
Overman wrote:lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born..
Legit if you injected the 30ish days of skills to fly this thing thinking it wouldn't get nerfed, lol just lol |
shackleton's endeavour
Oscar Tango Voodoo Groove
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:21:34 -
[28] - Quote
I think CCP you are missing an oppertunity here in making mining a viable option for all those in 0.0/low sec and it creating each regions own trade hubs like the days of old. Why the change to 32% and say not 10/15/20% you got to keep the mining appealing to do otherwise people won't bother and revert back to other things that make max isk rather than be a pink fluffy miner |
Gaara's sniper
MLG1337420BlazeIt360TitanNoScopeCorporationSWAG Goonswarm Federation
36
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Posted - 2016.12.07 16:21:53 -
[29] - Quote
Hey Fozzie, when can i expect a fix to npc aggroing my heavy drones. I just want to afk rat in this damned 5bil pinyata but these npcs keep focusing my drones. Send help. |
Baki Yuku
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
67
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:22:53 -
[30] - Quote
michael chasseur wrote:Overman wrote:lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born.. Legit if you injected the 30ish days of skills to fly this thing thinking it wouldn't get nerfed, lol just lol
This I injected right after release 4 pilots from zero and I expected it to be nerf'd but who cares already made back what I put in and more. |
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Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
138
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:23:18 -
[31] - Quote
SidewinderFang wrote:Raivi showing favouritism to his old Alliance once again. I don't think you have seen our mining fleets. We just accept that this change was probably needed to reel in the crazy instead of crying about it on the forums. |
Jade Mystique
Kokoblockers
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:23:18 -
[32] - Quote
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:"Hey guys, null sec is finally getting the same ISK/hour as high sec Incursion runners, we can't have that"
can you make 400+ ml/Hour running incursion with a single account? |
Klavas
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:23:54 -
[33] - Quote
It amazes me that you see an issue with null sec mining rates yet see no issue with invulnerable neuting hictors that can jump 10LY.
How does leaving that mechanic in place help game play? |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2596
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:24:23 -
[34] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote:SidewinderFang wrote:Raivi showing favouritism to his old Alliance once again. I don't think you have seen our mining fleets. We just accept that this change was probably needed to reel in the crazy instead of crying about it on the forums.
Your mining fleets are positively adorable. :sun:
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
14
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:25:26 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! can we at least disallow PANIC whilst an entosis link is active? |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2596
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:25:36 -
[36] - Quote
For what it's worth, I pretty much agree that a rorqual mining nerf was needed. I just take issue with jump hictors,.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2598
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:27:59 -
[37] - Quote
Also, apropos to the actual mining nerf, could we increase the speed of excavators?
The primary method of mining with a rorqual is to siege right on top of the rock, because of the abysmal speed of excavators. If the drones were faster, it wouldn't be necessary to do this quite as much, and it wouldn't positively affect yield a whole lot.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Lustig Allas-Rui
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2016.12.07 16:29:16 -
[38] - Quote
Grognard Commissar wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! can we at least disallow PANIC whilst an entosis link is active?
That is one of the few things a Rorqual can not do. |
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
76
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:29:55 -
[39] - Quote
Jade Mystique wrote:Mostlyharmlesss wrote:"Hey guys, null sec is finally getting the same ISK/hour as high sec Incursion runners, we can't have that" can you make 400+ ml/Hour running incursion with a single account?
If you cash out on the right thing at the right time, yes. |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1052
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:31:46 -
[40] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote:SidewinderFang wrote:Raivi showing favouritism to his old Alliance once again. I don't think you have seen our mining fleets. We just accept that this change was probably needed to reel in the crazy instead of crying about it on the forums.
THERE ARE DOZENS OF US
DOZENS |
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domino 8
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
31
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:33:42 -
[41] - Quote
Wait - you can mine in the entosis ship? |
Overman
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:34:40 -
[42] - Quote
michael chasseur wrote:Overman wrote:lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born.. Legit if you injected the 30ish days of skills to fly this thing thinking it wouldn't get nerfed, lol just lol
Lol nah. But a lot of guys did, so that's a bummer for them. I just don't even see the point of releasing these drones with those stats to begin with. Rorq use exploding was anticipated weeks before. Pretty negligent to release without balancing first TBH. |
Mr Cellophane
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:38:03 -
[43] - Quote
:insert angry goon here: Like others have said, increase the speed of the drones, make my life easier if your going to nerf yield. |
michael chasseur
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
76
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:38:46 -
[44] - Quote
Well yeah this nerf is crap. They should have nerfed the panic button or just removed it entirely. Then you keep the buff to nullsec income, give plenty of targets for roaming gangs, and still have a ship that can reasonably defend itself from THE FRIGATE MENACE. |
Sten Taxi
Hotline K162 The Clown Car
35
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:39:35 -
[45] - Quote
Lol, you thought the mining yield is what needed to be nerfed the most?
http://i.imgur.com/DhdAucS.png |
Tokyo Drifter
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:40:19 -
[46] - Quote
Overman wrote:michael chasseur wrote:Overman wrote:lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born.. Legit if you injected the 30ish days of skills to fly this thing thinking it wouldn't get nerfed, lol just lol Lol nah. But a lot of guys did, so that's a bummer for them. I just don't even see the point of releasing these drones with those stats to begin with. Rorq use exploding was anticipated weeks before. Pretty negligent to release without balancing first TBH.
The numbers were not a problem, goons multiboxing rorquals and using them extensively is the only reason of the nerf. Meanwhile PL gets jumprange buff to dreadbomb anyone more easily and ewar while PANIC is okay according to Fozzie.
Really makes you think. |
Jay Amazingness
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:42:06 -
[47] - Quote
i blame doom for getting this nerfed, also the invulnerable hexa-scram rorqs are not broken its just a creative way to use the ship.
Jay "I'm gay" Amazingness
Headshotting FCs since day one.
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Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic Central Omni Galactic Group
66
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:42:46 -
[48] - Quote
Just a minute, going to find the salt. Given that to even get that 32% yield means committing to be on the field for 5 minutes locked in place? I expect a good amount of yield for that kind of 3+bn investment.
Carriers can align out and make a decent amount of ISK, VNI/Ishtars can orbit and warp pretty fast if trouble arrives. But nope, a miner has to sit for 5 minutes locked in place for they dared to do the most looked down upon activity in the game. |
Frances Voltaire
Eldorado Exhumers
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:43:06 -
[49] - Quote
December 7th! A day that will live in infamy as the great Excavator Nerf is announced.
All good, I stay in flight mode while boosting and mining. I did the math on this and was thrilled at what we got.
If my Crew has 4 miners a booster and a hauler [Pre -Ascension] Now my Booster is my hauler and can mine too! If I had four miners before, my Hauler is now a miner [Thats a 25% increase] now my booster is my hauler and can mine with T2 mining drones [At least a 10% increase] never hurts to get 3 functions out of one ship.
So go ahead! Nerf the excavators! I was never planning to spend 1B+ a pop to create shiny joy kills.
The only tears I have for this are tears of joy! Looking forward to the accompanying killmail nerf that follows this update :)
BTW: I love the new Rorqual undeployed, nimble and out of reach! |
Overman
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:45:42 -
[50] - Quote
Tokyo Drifter wrote:Overman wrote:michael chasseur wrote:Overman wrote:lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born.. Legit if you injected the 30ish days of skills to fly this thing thinking it wouldn't get nerfed, lol just lol Lol nah. But a lot of guys did, so that's a bummer for them. I just don't even see the point of releasing these drones with those stats to begin with. Rorq use exploding was anticipated weeks before. Pretty negligent to release without balancing first TBH. The numbers were not a problem, goons multiboxing rorquals and using them extensively is the only reason of the nerf. Meanwhile PL gets jumprange buff to dreadbomb anyone more easily and ewar while PANIC is okay according to Fozzie. Really makes you think.
Which was completely foreseeable. Hence my point. After 13 years it's ignorant AF not anticipate players to scale every possible revenue stream via multi boxing.
That's really my issue. Not this particular nerf but the lack of foresight is pretty staggering. |
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Gobbins
Pandemic Horde Hld. Pandemic Horde
31
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:45:46 -
[51] - Quote
Unbelievable
1. So why would anyone siege 9 bil worth of rorqual to make 200 mil an hour post-nerf, when a 2 bil carrier will make 150 mil/hr while staying fully aligned?
2. By making the excavator cheaper won't most dual boxing rorqs just add a third rorq? the total isk committed to the belt will stay the same, and rorquals are not very hard to multi box - so what do you do then nerf it harder? All this does is makr Rorquals the multi boxer's isk printer while single boxing plebes will stick to carriers.
3. Why not balance the risk reward through **Risk** rather than nerfing reward? For example by nerfing panic mode, or putting a delay between recall and drones entering the bay. Rorquals ops are incredibly easy to disrupt due to how fragile the excavators are. It makes for really interesting game play and counter play and you go and say "oh no we can't have that"
I mean your recent changes have all been a mind boggling series of removing risk from everying:
- Citadels making supers untouchable while moving - ECs making bpos untouchable while building/researching - I mean citadels in general and god knows we've been taking advantage of them - And let's not forget good old hi sec incursions printing equivalent isk to nullsec ratting, but without risk
Finally you had put something interesting in the game and you nerf it? What are you guys even doing?
Man I am so triggered I am sitting here agreeing with goons that's how butt-annhilated I am.
> Leave the big Reward, increase RISK by looking at the panic module OR by making excavators more vulnerable. <
Cripes. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2827
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:46:53 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
It needed a yield nerf, though I likely would have gone with a somewhat more conservative number.
It boggles the mind that the unadulterated idiocy of invulnerable ewar somehow warrants a wait-and-see approach, though.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic Central Omni Galactic Group
66
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:47:13 -
[53] - Quote
Gobbins wrote:Unbelievable
1. So why would anyone siege 9 bil worth of rorqual to make 200 mil an hour post-nerf, when a 2 bil carrier will make 150 mil/hr while staying fully aligned?
2. By making the excavator cheaper won't most dual boxing rorqs just add a third rorq? the total isk committed to the belt will stay the same, and rorquals are not very hard to multi box - so what do you do then nerf it harder? All this does is makr Rorquals the multi boxer's isk printer while single boxing plebes will stick to carriers.
3. Why not balance the risk reward through **Risk** rather than nerfing reward? For example by nerfing panic mode, or putting a delay between recall and drones entering the bay. Rorquals ops are incredibly easy to disrupt due to how fragile the excavators are. It makes for really interesting game play and counter play and you go and say "oh no we can't have that"
I mean your recent changes have all been a mind boggling series of removing risk from everying:
- Citadels making supers untouchable while moving - ECs making bpos untouchable while building/researching - I mean citadels in general and god knows we've been taking advantage of them - And let's not forget good old hi sec incursions printing equivalent isk to nullsec ratting, but without risk
Finally you had put something interesting in the game and you nerf it? What are you guys even doing?
Man I am so triggered I am sitting here agreeing with goons that's how butt-annhilated I am.
> Leave the big Reward, increase RISK by looking at the panic module OR by making excavators more vulnerable. <
Cripes.
+1 |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1052
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:47:40 -
[54] - Quote
bpos have always been untouchable while building and researching unless you were a goddamned idiot gobbins |
Gobbins
Pandemic Horde Hld. Pandemic Horde
34
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:51:55 -
[55] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:bpos have always been untouchable while building and researching unless you were a goddamned idiot gobbins
I thought to get the super fast research from a POS module you had to put the bpo in the module. I know you could do it remotely before and then they had changed that. If I got that wrong my bad. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2598
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:53:55 -
[56] - Quote
Gobbins wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:bpos have always been untouchable while building and researching unless you were a goddamned idiot gobbins I thought to get the super fast research from a POS module you had to put the bpo in the module. I know you could do it remotely before and then they had changed that. If I got that wrong my bad. This is correct. However, if you were paying attention, you could cancel the research and scoop the BPO inside the 24h wardec timer, ensuring it did not come to harm.
The implementation of ECs actually ensures that jobs won't be cancelled, as there's no advantage to doing so, thanks to the BPO always entering asset safety. This means there's actually an incentive to hunt ECs with the drops of job materials (or even finished products!) without giving the producer a pressing incentive to cancel jobs.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
O'nira
Hotline K162 The Clown Car
86
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:55:11 -
[57] - Quote
legit did you seriously not expect this to happen ccp?
like really? |
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
407
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:55:15 -
[58] - Quote
Klavas wrote:It amazes me that you see an issue with null sec mining rates yet see no issue with invulnerable neuting hictors that can jump 10LY.
How does leaving that mechanic in place help game play?
Man, it's as if GSF members are mailed talking points every morning to spout en masse on the forums. |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1052
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
also, if you didn't feel like risking your bpo you just used your tier three caldari outpost or, if you were a highsec untermenschen, a station
nobody was ever putting anything above a cruiser bpo in their labs and leaving it be for a month |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2600
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:58:05 -
[60] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Klavas wrote:It amazes me that you see an issue with null sec mining rates yet see no issue with invulnerable neuting hictors that can jump 10LY.
How does leaving that mechanic in place help game play? Man, it's as if GSF members are mailed talking points every morning to spout en masse on the forums.
It's adorable that you guys think that THIS is some sort of notable amount of posting. It's positively restrained.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
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Niraia
Nocturnal Romance The Initiative.
511
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:58:38 -
[61] - Quote
Look at all the players who think you're making the right decisions.
GÖÑ
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Tiberizzle
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
149
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:58:42 -
[62] - Quote
Overman wrote:michael chasseur wrote:Overman wrote:lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born.. Legit if you injected the 30ish days of skills to fly this thing thinking it wouldn't get nerfed, lol just lol Lol nah. But a lot of guys did, so that's a bummer for them. I just don't even see the point of releasing these drones with those stats to begin with. Rorq use exploding was anticipated weeks before. Pretty negligent to release without balancing first TBH.
this is pretty much how I feel about it
I'm not surprised it needed rebalancing, but I am disappointed they didn't bother to balance it before release
for the team that took 2 years to acknowledge balance issues with Ishtars, to decide Rorquals need rebalancing in only 2 weeks means they knowingly shoved it out the door in flames and that's just not very professional or respectful of the players |
Baki Yuku
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
68
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 16:58:46 -
[63] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Klavas wrote:It amazes me that you see an issue with null sec mining rates yet see no issue with invulnerable neuting hictors that can jump 10LY.
How does leaving that mechanic in place help game play? Man, it's as if GSF members are mailed talking points every morning to spout en masse on the forums.
They do have a point doh. While in panic you shouldn't be allowed to run anything not even a cyno tbh. |
Chupita Cabrra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:00:51 -
[64] - Quote
32% goes a bit far and kills the profession for T1 indie core people.
Will we get a buff to the base speed of exca drones?
Why not a more tempered 20-25% plus the speed buff.
Not gonna go all Boohoo CCP, however. Please take the time to balance the right than have 2 to 3 passes on balancing . if you hit us with a 32% Nerf...a lot of folks walk away and the point was to make rorq mining viable.
I do understand the the need to keep mining healthy. Maybe if you threw us some figures people wouldn't be up in arms. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition
3138
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:01:01 -
[65] - Quote
I figured the yield was the least of its issues.
Could we at least trade some theoretical yield for some drone speed? |
SpikeyWelsh
Klungels second hand spaceshipparts Kids With Guns Alliance
55
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:02:23 -
[66] - Quote
Hey Fozzie,
Swinging your NERFhammer again?
Maybe look at highsec orca use to get an nerf in the same fasion?
Putting a rorq + a fit on the field, and add 5 of your wonderfull ``excavatordrones`` on the field
will set you back 10 BIL isk, and you have the ``luxerie``of beeing pinned down for 5 minutes
Why cant the isk vs rewards thing work here?
How are you planning to compensate people that bought the excavators? a 32% backpayment by CCP??
Good job man
Fly safe |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14973
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:02:31 -
[67] - Quote
Gobbins wrote:
1. So why would anyone siege 9 bil worth of rorqual to make 200 mil an hour post-nerf, when a 2 bil carrier will make 150 mil/hr while staying fully aligned?
Don't worry, they'll nerf ratting next |
Vrye Thellere
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:03:11 -
[68] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Klavas wrote:It amazes me that you see an issue with null sec mining rates yet see no issue with invulnerable neuting hictors that can jump 10LY.
How does leaving that mechanic in place help game play? Man, it's as if GSF members are mailed talking points every morning to spout en masse on the forums.
I guess you could say...it's a Hivemind.
I'll see myself out. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
260
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:03:20 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. You'll probably also have noticed that mining activity in nullsec is waaaaay down, except for a very few select regions (and guess who's sitting there?). Compare the stats of October and November if you don't believe me. Was that also a design goal?
It's kinda funny though: watching a stream of hotdroppers holding the door for each other while not finding any targets in areas that were once notorious for their many mining systems.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
lord xavier
Rubbed Out PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
128
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:04:57 -
[70] - Quote
Gonna have to agree with the majority of goons here. You are reducing the mining yield of the rorqual, which have made it viable for the first time in years but, you are leaving the invulnerable heavy scram hictor.GG. |
|
X4m
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
142
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:06:40 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves.
Thanks!
Nice "balance" with this "immortal capital jump hictors" |
Klavas
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:09:16 -
[72] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Klavas wrote:It amazes me that you see an issue with null sec mining rates yet see no issue with invulnerable neuting hictors that can jump 10LY.
How does leaving that mechanic in place help game play? Man, it's as if GSF members are mailed talking points every morning to spout en masse on the forums.
It's almost like anyone that has any interaction with these game mechanics sees what the glaring issues are. |
Hans Bauer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:10:24 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
So you released last month statistics without any stats that include the rorquals and now you want to cut that by 32% ? I wouldn't mind but only if you reduce components cost so the drones would cost not more than a t1 mining barge. Furthermore both propoise and the orca are a mining joke orca makes no more than 15-20 mil per hour those should have increase . That will hurt people who have 1 or 2 rorquals but not the real players the ones with 10+ |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2828
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:11:44 -
[74] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. You'll probably also have noticed that mining activity in nullsec is waaaaay down, except for a very few select regions (and guess who's sitting there?). Compare the stats of October and November if you don't believe me. Was that also a design goal?
As noted in the November economic report, logging of drone mining yield was broken, so that's probably not a very good comparison.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Emily X7
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:12:37 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
so basicly your making a Ship that is overall more value in isk then carriers make around the same isk per hour as ratting carries that have a way to align out. while rorquals are stuck for 5minutes.
4bill ratting carrier vs 10-15bill rorq hmm wonder what should be raking in more isk per hour.
Way to go on killing the mining community. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
260
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:13:21 -
[76] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Gobbins wrote:
1. So why would anyone siege 9 bil worth of rorqual to make 200 mil an hour post-nerf, when a 2 bil carrier will make 150 mil/hr while staying fully aligned?
Don't worry, they'll nerf ratting next May I suggest a module that increases fighter dps 10 fold but makes you a sitting duck for 5 minutes? Of course the base dps would have to be reduced accordingly.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
Michael Jordan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:13:38 -
[77] - Quote
Tokyo Drifter wrote:Overman wrote:michael chasseur wrote:Overman wrote:lol nerfed before people have even had a chance to recoup their investment. So many people are getting dicked by this lol.
GJ.
And a new generation of bitter vets are born.. Legit if you injected the 30ish days of skills to fly this thing thinking it wouldn't get nerfed, lol just lol Lol nah. But a lot of guys did, so that's a bummer for them. I just don't even see the point of releasing these drones with those stats to begin with. Rorq use exploding was anticipated weeks before. Pretty negligent to release without balancing first TBH. The numbers were not a problem, goons multiboxing rorquals and using them extensively is the only reason of the nerf. Meanwhile PL gets jumprange buff to dreadbomb anyone more easily and ewar while PANIC is okay according to Fozzie. Really makes you think.
eve gambling banned after cfc gets beheaded by trillionaire literally paying every major alliance to fight them B)
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hands out tinfoil*
the heavy scram rorq is kinda silly tho. doesnt give much of a way to fight back, more of a "welp guess im stuck here whatcanudo" |
Ilian Amarin
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
25
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:16:04 -
[78] - Quote
While id love to keep the "grr goons" narrative going, i actually have to agree on this issue.
Nerfing the mining yield but not touching the abomination thats the unkillable heavy warp scrambler Rorqual is just ********.
Was this like not dicussed with the CSM, i cant imagine them agreeing to something like this. |
Market PLLS
Pleasure and Logistics Badfellas Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:16:07 -
[79] - Quote
ok ...
#thankfrozzyfornerf #othershitbyfrozzy |
Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
117
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:16:51 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
I think you should consider upping the drone speed then.....
You should also REALLY consider changing the mechanics of mining, into something that's more activity based gameplay. The mining mechanics themselves are incredibly boring, and people are willingly to accept the fact that's it's probably the worst possible career your can pursue in eve, if you want to make isk, because you barely have to do anything.
The reason people are buying and using Rorquals, is because they finally see the opportunity, to make things without having an abysmal isk/hour in the process(if you mined with a hulk instead...), and that's why they accept the risk of having a 10b+ Ship grounded for 5 minutes.
Instead of nerfing the Rorq, you should nerf the ability to transport vast amount of minerals from 0.0 to high-sec. This would make locally mined ore valuable, which can be used for production. |
|
nm Kain
Miners n' Mercs. DRONE WALKERS
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:18:36 -
[81] - Quote
It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?
I swear. I feel like quitting.
That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.
Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1822
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:18:48 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww!
2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Michael Jordan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:19:12 -
[83] - Quote
Hans Bauer wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! So you released last month statistics without any stats that include the rorquals and now you want to cut that by 32% ? I wouldn't mind but only if you reduce components cost so the drones would cost not more than a t1 mining barge. Furthermore both propoise and the orca are a mining joke orca makes no more than 15-20 mil per hour those should have increase . That will hurt people who have 1 or 2 rorquals but not the real players the ones with 10+
the orca and porpoise are not meant to be solo mining boats. there is 0 reason for anyone to fly anything other than them if they get buffed more. they are command ships that buff allies and assist in multiple ways and frankly already mine more than they should. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1822
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:19:37 -
[84] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?
I swear. I feel like quitting.
That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.
Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy.
Oh please leave and don't come back. PLEASE.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
146
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:19:42 -
[85] - Quote
Robbert Smith wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
Does this include a matching nerf to 'Excavator' Ice Harvesting Drone cycle time?
Ice is a different matter. There are less units of ice in an ice anom than ore in an Enormous or Colossal anom. When you mine out an ore anom from system upgrade a new one spawns immediately, as opposed to ice where it takes 4h for a new one to spawn. |
Michael Oskold
Adversity.
23
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:21:34 -
[86] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?
I swear. I feel like quitting.
That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.
Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy.
its okay we can help you with that )))
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2828
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:24:46 -
[87] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
...no? It's not clear that everyone is against it. I'd have probably started at 20-25%, given the power to wield the nerfbat, but that's more of a quibble than opposition.
I mostly just find it bizarre that, while the mining yield of a mining ship is getting a nerf (needed or not), the literally-invulnerable scram ability of a mining ship is something they want to watch "evolve".
Off label uses are fun and good, but it's a strange divergence from the normal paradigm of "No counterplay = bad".
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
75
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:26:17 -
[88] - Quote
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:"Hey guys, null sec is finally getting the same ISK/hour as high sec Incursion runners, we can't have that"
Because a) nullsec doesn't already have incursions that pay out at a higher rate than hisec incursions and b) hisec incursions are well known for paying out 500m isk per hour like the rorquals have been
Good memeing though! Well done!
Trade Hub Price Checker: stop.hammerti.me.uk/pricecheck
Visit "Haulers Channel" in game for all matters courier-related.
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nm Kain
Miners n' Mercs. DRONE WALKERS
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:26:26 -
[89] - Quote
"Oh please leave and don't come back. PLEASE. "
How about you grow a brain and troll something more witty? Oh.. Wait... Growing a brain requires a brain. So your kinda screwed.
"its okay we can help you with that )))"
Adversity couldn't find themselves out of a paper bag.
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lord xavier
Rubbed Out PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
129
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:31:14 -
[90] - Quote
Messenger Of Truth wrote:Mostlyharmlesss wrote:"Hey guys, null sec is finally getting the same ISK/hour as high sec Incursion runners, we can't have that" Because a) nullsec doesn't already have incursions that pay out at a higher rate than hisec incursions and b) hisec incursions are well known for paying out 500m isk per hour like the rorquals have been Good memeing though! Well done! So, paying out 500m/hr in high security, you get concorded when you tackle one guy? Thats okay? No, the fact the rorqual is being nerfed because it yields too much isk per hour, and it is going 32% below hisec incursions is ********.
Space that is Safe by a permanent mechanics should not yield more isk than low security or null sec. Given how carrier mechanics changed level 5s and ratting. Now mining got a buff, then a nerf this hard, yet incursions have not been touched to reduce their isk per hour in hisec is absurd. |
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Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
260
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:31:44 -
[91] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Sarah Flynt wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. You'll probably also have noticed that mining activity in nullsec is waaaaay down, except for a very few select regions (and guess who's sitting there?). Compare the stats of October and November if you don't believe me. Was that also a design goal? As noted in the November economic report, logging of drone mining yield was broken, so that's probably not a very good comparison. Judging by the numbers from the raw data, it was broken for four days, maybe less. That doesn't explain the collapse of mining activity in most nullsec regions.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
Fleshgrind
The Graduates The Initiative.
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:32:27 -
[92] - Quote
32% is not a tweak. 5-10% is a tweak. I dont even think you guys have enough data yet to make this extreme enough adjustment. Talk about a lack of foresight.
Just my .02 |
Ted McManfist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:33:39 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
Thanks!
Since you obviously have access to the data about how much mining drones have mined, can you at least clue us in as to how much ore was mined in Delve last month? The Econ report didn't account for drone mining. |
Michael Oskold
Adversity.
23
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:33:50 -
[94] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:"Oh please leave and don't come back. PLEASE. "
How about you grow a brain and troll something more witty? Oh.. Wait... Growing a brain requires a brain. So your kinda screwed.
"its okay we can help you with that )))"
Adversity couldn't find themselves out of a paper bag.
can't seem to find your rorquals anymore either, think we killed all of them :^)
also i hear buying maze locations is a good investment, especially when there are baddies in local. can you c/d this? |
Jean-Luc II
United Federation of Planets - Star Fleet Division
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:34:53 -
[95] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?
I swear. I feel like quitting.
That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.
Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy.
I'm with you man and so are other miners I've spoken to who have invested big time into this. It baffles me why folks would insult you for saying how you feel about this. People have every right to feel angry about this. We are being asked to become a sitting duck for 5 mins and this is the result:
https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/losses/
|
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
75
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:35:16 -
[96] - Quote
michael chasseur wrote:hisec wins again
More like nullsec continues to win, its just winning by a factor of 10 instead of a factor of 15
Trade Hub Price Checker: stop.hammerti.me.uk/pricecheck
Visit "Haulers Channel" in game for all matters courier-related.
Structure name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
|
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:36:31 -
[97] - Quote
well so my ratting set up is:
2,5b carrier with 150m bounty/hour (with align there is pretty low chance to catch me) 100m afk VNI with 50-60m bounty/hour 100m afk VNI with 50-60m bounty/hour
=2,7b -> 11hours of ratting to replace it ! (and I do not count loot from MTUs)
what about mining setup with 3x chars? 2,4b rorq hull + 400m fit + 5x 1,2b excavators => 200m ore hour with siege (and no chance escape?) 200m skiff with 20m ore/hour 200m skiff with 20m ore/hour
=9,2b -> 38hours of STATIC mining (and you even risk most of your compressed ore in cargo)
Am I wrong with numbers? miners still have hard work....
sry for my English :-(
|
nm Kain
Miners n' Mercs. DRONE WALKERS
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:39:05 -
[98] - Quote
Jean-Luc II wrote:nm Kain wrote:It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?
I swear. I feel like quitting.
That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.
Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy. I'm with you man and so are other miners I've spoken to who have invested big time into this. It baffles me why folks would insult you for saying how you feel about this. People have every right to feel angry about this. We are being asked to become a sitting duck for 5 mins and this is the result: https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/losses/
It's because they cannot have an intelligent conversation. Trolls will be trolls. |
VCBee 2fast2furious
Aliastra Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:40:31 -
[99] - Quote
Having talked for years about wanting to increase the self sufficiency of nullsec, CCP actually takes a step towards that goal with the Excavator Rorqual.
And then Fozzie shows up and is like 'nah we can't have that, gonna nerf the hell out it'.
Ell oh ell. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6290
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:41:04 -
[100] - Quote
One quick note for people
Quote: Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price.
The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
|
Tara Read
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
878
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:42:47 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
So let me understand this correctly. People injected characters, invested between 11 to 13 billion for a proper fit Rorqual with Excavator drones and haven't even recouped any sort of investment and you are reducing the mining yield by 32%? Incursions don't make hardly any isk. Mission LP is heavily saturated. I mean sure go ahead and nerf players abilities to make (finally) decent isk per hour. If the argument is risk you only need to look towards the heavy risk of having Excavators killed or the Rorqual killed itself.
Perhaps a more modest reduction like 15 to 20% is fine? That way you won't have people ripping the SP out of their alts and selling Rorquals en masse which is already taking place. A T1 core is useless. A T2 core you've nerfed the income by about 178 million isk per hour. That is over half a billion in income lost over three hours and over 1.8 billion lost over ten hours. Imagine suddenly doing that to Incursion runners or other PVE player methods of isk making? It would send shock waves throughout their communities. |
lord xavier
Rubbed Out PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
129
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:42:57 -
[102] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:One quick note for people Quote: Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price. The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it. Thank god that doesnt effect my heavy scram rorq tho ;) |
Emily X7
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:43:01 -
[103] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:One quick note for people Quote: Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price. The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.
doesnt matter much due to the risk factor vs carrier ratting with this update they will kill rorqual mining quite well |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2829
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:43:35 -
[104] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:
It's because they cannot have an intelligent conversation. Trolls will be trolls.
Indeed. Signs of intelligent conversation include:
-Blatantly lying about community consensus.
-Dramatic invective.
-Threatening to take your ball and go home.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Captain Torlek
Nocturnal Romance The Initiative.
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:47:03 -
[105] - Quote
can't say i agree with this change to reduce the mining yeld, transportation time is not taken into account. i will agree the rorqual is only 1 ship and that there are others.
i do not agree that the economy is in a good state. i feel that eve is suffering from an inflation problem.
the income in this game has either remained static or reduced over the past 6 years meanwhile inflation seems to have increased.
CCP is intent on getting new players into the game (that's good btw) but those new players won't stay long when they realise it will take them a week to be able to get a cruiser, a thorax was 6m when i started that's now almost doubled.
i was hoping that this was the first step to be able to drop the market prices to enable cheaper ships for newer players/alpha clones.
as for the combat abilities of the rorqual, yes in my hands a PVPier it is a very powerful ship.
capable of long range jumps with minimal fatigue, its dps is less than a carrier and yes as everyone has pointed out it cannot be killed by every titan in eve for 7 mins . i think it should be powerful it's there to provide support to a mining op and protect numerous ships. the panic module cannot be refitted in space, once its used that's it.
its ability to use ewar and neuts in panic should be tweaked.
well that's what i think if anything will change i don't know.
|
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1823
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:48:39 -
[106] - Quote
Wait, does this also effect the Ice Excavator drones in terms of cycle time?
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
|
Dreiden Kisada
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
55
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:49:21 -
[107] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:One quick note for people Quote: Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price. The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.
Know what's going to drop the price even more? When a bunch of folks stop using them because why the **** would they? |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1055
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:50:17 -
[108] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:One quick note for people Quote: Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price. The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it. everyone noticed
that nobody was discussing it should have clued you in on how important it was to the discussion |
Michael Oskold
Adversity.
23
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:50:18 -
[109] - Quote
Jean-Luc II wrote:nm Kain wrote:It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?
I swear. I feel like quitting.
That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.
Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy. I'm with you man and so are other miners I've spoken to who have invested big time into this. It baffles me why folks would insult you for saying how you feel about this. People have every right to feel angry about this. We are being asked to become a sitting duck for 5 mins and this is the result: https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/losses/
ive seen a rorq tank 15 blops and then panic when supers came in. He was solo so he died quietly and lost everything after we sat there for 5 mins waiting for him to come out. like unironically if he had a scram fit and punched a cyno for 4-5 dreads those supes/blops would have eaten ****. but no. you insist you are a helpless little miner in a belt just trying to make a living, but I dont buy it. |
m4ster112
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
34
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:50:34 -
[110] - Quote
a 15-20% nerf would be better than 32% the ability to make good isk mining is a good thing, Take a look into the number properly before beating the rorq mining to death plox. |
|
nm Kain
Miners n' Mercs. DRONE WALKERS
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:51:38 -
[111] - Quote
If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely. |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:53:30 -
[112] - Quote
CCP, Bruh, Bro, sista.
Come on man.
Like wtf allowing rorquals to tackle while in panic...
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3516
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:53:33 -
[113] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:One quick note for people Quote: Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price. The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it. Hehe, already sold 75% of my stockpile. I will have to build it back up once the price crashes again.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:54:51 -
[114] - Quote
Ted McManfist wrote:VANMISTIK wrote:Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken. That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that. Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2829
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:56:10 -
[115] - Quote
Captain Torlek wrote: i do not agree that the economy is in a good state. i feel that eve is suffering from an inflation problem.
the income in this game has either remained static or reduced over the past 6 years meanwhile inflation seems to have increased.
Perhaps you can expand on this, citing various elements from the monthly economic report.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14975
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:58:36 -
[116] - Quote
exiik Shardani wrote:well so my ratting set up is:
2,5b carrier with 150m bounty/hour (with align there is pretty low chance to catch me) 100m afk VNI with 50-60m bounty/hour 100m afk VNI with 50-60m bounty/hour
=2,7b -> 11hours of ratting to replace it ! (and I do not count loot from MTUs)
what about mining setup with 3x chars? 2,4b rorq hull + 400m fit + 5x 1,2b excavators => 200m ore hour with siege (and no chance escape?) 200m skiff with 20m ore/hour 200m skiff with 20m ore/hour
=9,2b -> 38hours of STATIC mining (and you even risk most of your compressed ore in cargo)
Am I wrong with numbers? miners still have hard work....
The above will change slightly with change that should make excavators cheaper, but yea, the 'cost' and risk differences (between mining ivs ratting in null) will still be plenty steep and I expect more people will choose ratting to Rorq mining than do so now. I use a Machariel instead of a Carrier, but I have an MJD fit, I can moon walk out at the 1st sign of trouble. Rorq miners can't.
Upside for miners is mineral prices rise, down side is more ratters means both less content (easier to catch rorq miners than it is to catch ratters) and even more isk pumping into the economy (something like 70% of the 50 TRILLION isk pumped into the game last month from npc bounties came from null sec npc bounties, expect that to rise even further).
Thus my previous comment in this thread, don't worry, they will nerf ratting next. Expect longer lines for high sec incursion wait lists and Loads more people running missions in Apanake/Osmon/Lanngisi by June of next year lol. |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 17:59:34 -
[117] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely.
It was broken in the first place. Just to the users advantage. They are re-breaking it.
|
Philip Shazih
Echelon Research Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:02:10 -
[118] - Quote
Playing devils advocate: CCP may not have nerfed rorq income. CCP nerfed rorq volume. Income is volume * price.
Prices have been dropping like a brick so rorqs were nerfing their own income. This on fact is a boost to exhumers and barges.
I agree on everything else thi. Nerf the jumping hick. |
Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
57
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:06:14 -
[119] - Quote
i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..
But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place
i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...
You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!
|
Overman
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
14
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:13:22 -
[120] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:nm Kain wrote:If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely. It was broken in the first place. Just to the users advantage. They are re-breaking it.
I think the criticism for the excavator nerf needs to focus less on the fact of nerfing an overpowered feature, but more on the inability of CCP to foresee the very predictable outcome which now CCP is compelled to balance. Instead of doing a moderate level of QA/testing, CCP released a feature. Players relied on some degree of predictable consistency by CCP and many of those players are now in the hole. HTFU and all that notwithstanding, CCP itself shouldnt be in the business of making its own patch notes a speculative industry with high degrees of risk. Players SHOULD be able to trust CCPs statements and rely on them in the short to medium term.
Again, game breaking features need to be patched and some issues are unforeseen. This is not one of those instances.
I'm pretty happy with the direction of CCP as of late, but their release team dropped the ball on this. People would still have been excited about rorq mining if these figures were implemented as such with these new excavator numbers. Instead you have a large pissed off player base which could have been completely avoidable |
|
Wuv'u'long'time
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:14:01 -
[121] - Quote
Trespasser wrote:i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..
But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place
i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...
You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!
Amen to that. Exactly how I feel. |
Thayla Caldari
Resilience. DARKNESS.
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:15:39 -
[122] - Quote
Trespasser wrote:i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..
But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place
i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...
You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!
Fozzy rolled two 10 sided dice and those are the numbers he came up with.
|
Chupita Cabrra
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:18:38 -
[123] - Quote
Overman wrote:Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:nm Kain wrote:If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely. It was broken in the first place. Just to the users advantage. They are re-breaking it. I think the criticism for the excavator nerf needs to focus less on the fact of nerfing an overpowered feature, but more on the inability of CCP to foresee the very predictable outcome which now CCP is compelled to balance. Instead of doing a moderate level of QA/testing, CCP released a feature. Players relied on some degree of predictable consistency by CCP and many of those players are now in the hole. HTFU and all that notwithstanding, CCP itself shouldnt be in the business of making its own patch notes a speculative industry with high degrees of risk. Players SHOULD be able to trust CCPs statements and rely on them in the short to medium term. Again, game breaking features need to be patched and some issues are unforeseen. This is not one of those instances. I'm pretty happy with the direction of CCP as of late, but their release team dropped the ball on this. People would still have been excited about rorq mining if these figures were implemented as such with these new excavator numbers. Instead you have a large pissed off player base and this anger along with lost investment by the players could have been completely avoidable
Coming from the group that makes a living off expoitinng these issues. Let me go ahead and say thanks.
Edit: but that's important here. I agree with you ultimately. Just hope they take their time on these "tweaks".....get it right. |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:18:54 -
[124] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change.
Most people did see it coming.
32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
|
Brown Pathfinder
Its a good day to die
16
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:19:54 -
[125] - Quote
This is very good! Got to keep the isk income down more Also don't increase the drop yield of the drone components, you should nerf them even more Otherwise hisec income is getting stomped on, Drone A.i is like the new melted nanoribbons wich is gone to the ground now value wise. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2829
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:24:10 -
[126] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change. Most people did see it coming. 32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
He was talking about the drone AI change, which should have been an obvious incoming change even before it was loudly telegraphed by the economic report.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3006
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:25:21 -
[127] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change. Most people did see it coming. 32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
It's still a huge loss even if you start from a big number. The stupidest point about it is how mining income is actually self balancing because it all goes through the market. If it pays too much, more will mine thus inflating the offer for minerals on the market and reducing the income for mining once the demand is overcome. As opposed to that, people will now rat which is not bound by the market and also often done AFK. |
Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research Goonswarm Federation
56
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:36:17 -
[128] - Quote
So the cost of mining drones will fall, the volume of ore mined by Rorqual will decrease, but the slide in Mineral prices will be arrested, so profits should stabilize at roughly the same.
Nice boost for the lower end Miners still in Exhumers and Barges, as proportionally their mining will be a larger part of a Mining Fleet.
The only thing I would have liked to see would have been for CCP to implement a severe nerf to mining drones, but make boosts apply to them, in order to get rid of the antisocial Rorqual no boost fleets that don't help lower SP players. |
Chiana Stellan
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:37:28 -
[129] - Quote
What a waste of time it is planning for the future in eve online. Really for a game that almost entirely relies on forward thinking it's pretty stupid to hang a carrot just to snatch it away once everyone is invested in chasing it.
I literally hate you, try balancing things before you release them or just carry on ruining your great game. |
Kimsemus
Deplorables. ChaosTheory.
161
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:37:53 -
[130] - Quote
1/3 mining yield reduction on the Rorq? As if the yield wasn't already heavily balanced around a (even with the change) massive barrier to entry in terms of ISK invested, skills, exposure, and planning. Not to mention drones that basically don't fly to roids as much as "meander like on a summer walk."
But yeah, can't have null miners getting yields appropriate to their risks and exposure compared to hisec right? That'd just be crazy! |
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Andail Chanter
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:39:02 -
[131] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww! 2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change. Most people did see it coming. 32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
32% is 32% whether you're talking about big numbers or small numbers. |
i make jobs
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:40:10 -
[132] - Quote
no fun allowed
new mechanic? it'll be gone in a month
balancing the risk and reward of nullsec vs highsec? nah, incursion runners should be able to make 3x what a ratter makes consistently
high risk high reward FINALLY in eve? nah let's get rid of that too cause all the poors and bads can't have that level of fun and accessibility so that has to go too
thanks for pussifying eve even more ccp |
Andail Chanter
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:43:12 -
[133] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Ted McManfist wrote:VANMISTIK wrote:Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken. That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that. Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs?
PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. |
Ultraxion
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:43:22 -
[134] - Quote
Chiana Stellan wrote:it's pretty stupid to hang a carrot just to snatch it away once everyone is invested in chasing it.
This I agree with x100. Are you guys getting enough sun over there in Iceland? Or is there another reason you consistently spread misery in the player base? |
Ted McManfist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
97
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:44:07 -
[135] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Ted McManfist wrote:VANMISTIK wrote:Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken. That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that. Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs?
Silly us, we've been mining with them. |
Asher Elias
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:50:12 -
[136] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Off label uses are fun and good, but it's a strange divergence from the normal paradigm of "No counterplay = bad".
Saying stuff like this makes you look dumb. You can just stay +10 LY away from a rorqual and they can't scram you. |
Wexa Tion
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
5
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:52:59 -
[137] - Quote
Asher Elias wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Off label uses are fun and good, but it's a strange divergence from the normal paradigm of "No counterplay = bad".
Saying stuff like this makes you look dumb. You can just stay +10 LY away from a rorqual and they can't scram you.
""Get good noob just don't get tackled lmao"" |
Callaghan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:53:11 -
[138] - Quote
Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke. |
Sakido Cain
Duragon Pioneer Group Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:53:14 -
[139] - Quote
Querns wrote:Also, apropos to the actual mining nerf, could we increase the speed of excavators?
The primary method of mining with a rorqual is to siege right on top of the rock, because of the abysmal speed of excavators. If the drones were faster, it wouldn't be necessary to do this quite as much, and it wouldn't positively affect yield a whole lot.
Querns stop using thought and reason, tossing out valid ideas with no tears, rage or unsubbing only leads to CCP believing you have an agenda. So please, next good idea, hide it in a rant. This is the only way CCP hears you.
P.S. Oh also make sure to point out how it helps FW, hurts null and keeps HS better than everything else. |
Rexxen Darkbrew
Hounds Of Haides RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:54:25 -
[140] - Quote
CCP are you nuts .. 32% nerf?? Have you seen the KB and the amount of Rorq losses..You said you wanted to add more risk/reward to mining. Right now were are at that...It is very high/risk reward currently.
Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
Rorq cannot safely mine 24/7 they have to strategically pick there window and sometimes sit out of siege quite a lot waiting on intel etc.. /watching movement of adversaries before resieging.
Might as well put them back to a off grid booster I'd rather have that then a 1/3 nerf in income...Risk no longer equals the reward,..
What a sad waste of people's time and isk, that trained for the Rorqual based on your own post of the new risk/reward and yield output system...
Rorq for sale!
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Jean-Luc II
United Federation of Planets - Star Fleet Division
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:56:56 -
[141] - Quote
Callaghan wrote:Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke.
Well said!!!
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2833
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 18:57:16 -
[142] - Quote
Rexxen Darkbrew wrote: Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
The thing making it a "10-15b ship" right now is the cost of the excavators, which is also being adjusted, so that's sort of a hollow argument.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Casandra Elise McIntire
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:00:01 -
[143] - Quote
Callaghan wrote:Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke.
Yes this is the new business model. CCP will start putting out revamps on unused, mostly untrained ships, buff them to high heavens and then once the skill injector markets calms back down, they will nerf them back to reasonably broken levels.
Next I see Blops being given a ton of love. You know, cause small groups need better ability to fight the evil hordes. (Not cause Blops take a crap ton of training and the injector market will thrive even more.) |
Ni Neith
Hedion University Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:04:28 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals...
Can you throw one of your eyes on the ESS situation please. Why are they sill alowed on a citadel?
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nm Kain
Miners n' Mercs. DRONE WALKERS
5
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:05:41 -
[145] - Quote
Jean-Luc II wrote:Callaghan wrote:Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke. Well said!!!
Yup. Well Said +2 |
Xennos Octavian
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:06:46 -
[146] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:I can't really debate if 32% nerf is or isn't appropriate, but I do question why "0.0 mining paying too much" is the sort of game-breaking thing that requires immediate patching while "invulnerable combat ships" is not.
It is not changing my plans for a Rorqual, but I will find it annoying, nonetheless.
I am not that familiar with Fozzie's apparent fixation on "balance" between High-Sec and Null-Sec, which some people here have been complaining about, but I will put forward my own perception on the matter.
For starters, I do not see why such a drastic nerf (reducing Excavators to 2/3 their original mining capabilities) is being implemented. The Rorqual is a Capital Ship, so should it not perform at the same level as its PvE/PvP counterparts? Before, the Industrial Core just made it a booster ship that was a floating pi+¦ata if one was careless enough to have one on-grid for PvP gangs to destroy.
The recent update not only gave it PANIC to protect its mining fleet on-grid (and the bonuses to shield boosters and remote shield boosters, IIRC), but also turned it into a proper mining vessel. Now the guy in the Rorq doesn't just sit there with the Fleet Boost, and can actually contribute directly to the mining operation through their Drones.
They can even do it on their own (pre-Nerf could mine as much as five Exhumers combined), but now you've knocked down the mining yields for Ore mining (I believe they left the Ice ones untouched) by 32%. That kind of number adds up quickly: now people have to make four cycles to get the same amount of Ore which, pre-nerf, they only needed three cycles to get.
For the high-risk nature of Low and Null-Sec, is such a reduction in mining yields really necessary? |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1823
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:08:05 -
[147] - Quote
So after this change 2 of the 5 drones will effectively be made useless. However each drone mines about as much as one Exhumer, so that still leaves 3 Exhumers worth of yield. Why are people bitching?
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic Central Omni Galactic Group
66
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:09:19 -
[148] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Rexxen Darkbrew wrote: Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
The thing making it a "10-15b ship" right now is the cost of the excavators, which is also being adjusted, so that's sort of a hollow argument.
That's true, the excavators should drop in price rightly so. The amount of ore a Rorq mines is also rather high.
However, given that the risk vs reward of putting a Rorq on field is vastly unbalanced against every other nullsec form of personal ISK generation I feel it's still way out of whack.
I can deploy a carrier to a Sanctum, align to station and as long as I pay attention to local and intel I can get out usually in time. 30M a tic if I get lucky, but risk isn't too high so it's fine.
I can run in a VNI or Ishtar in a Haven, always running at speed, again if I am paying attention, I can get out fine, 15-20M a tic.
I can mine in a Skiff, or Hulk, as long as I pay attention, I can warp out a fair amount of the time.
I run a Rorq, to make it mine better than a barge I have to siege it, 5 minutes locked in place, unlike the other activities, which are solo endeavors, even if I have good intel, even if I am paying attention, I'm locked in that spot for 5 minutes. The payout is rather high, sure, it could do with a nerf, it's also playing havoc with the mineral markets. BUT, the extend feels like a knee-jerk reaction, the reward vs risk here feels really off kilter compared to other ways to make ISK.
/salt |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
195
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:10:05 -
[149] - Quote
eiedu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:... - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
... Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it? Yes, there is math behind that!
145% * 68% = 99%
The Rorqual was initially announced to have a yield of ~18400 m3 per minute. Someone forgot to put mining augmentor rigs on it, which boosted the yield by 45.475% to 29,226m3 per minute. Reducing it by 32% "cancels out" the rigs and brings it down to 19,873 m3 per minute (~10% discrepancy, probably mining drone spec?)
Things tend to need a "nerf" when you tell your economy guys to run a number, then overshoot it by 50%.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2833
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:10:29 -
[150] - Quote
Xennos Octavian wrote:
For the high-risk nature of Low and Null-Sec, is such a reduction in mining yields really necessary?
Forget all of this Battle-Of-the-Secses business for a minute.
Do you honestly think the current rate of Rorqual mining, and the resulting increase in the mineral supply, would be a good thing for the game, long term?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Aasir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:10:57 -
[151] - Quote
Please stop building in null sec, we only wanted you to think you could be self sufficient.
But seriously Nerf the combat capability of the Rorqual fgs are you actually stupid? Leave the yield alone |
Bobb Bobbington
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
364
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:11:26 -
[152] - Quote
For all the people complaining, let me argue CCP's perspective
It's not necessarily about nullsec miners earning too much. There are numerous other long term effects that come with these rorquals. Rorquals can mine way too much ore. This can lead to...
1. Decreased mineral prices. We already see this happening across the board. Eventually rorqual isk/hr may be much closer to normal, but this is a form of powercreep- barges and other mining barges will be greatly nerfed. 2. Easier to get large ships. With lower mineral prices, it would be much easier obtaining battleships and capitals. From a player perspective this may sound awesome, but from a game design perspective it may be unwanted- part of the game is struggling to get forward. 3. Nullsec supercap fleets. Lets say a rorqual can make 300m/hr. I don't know the exact number. It would take 10 rorquals only 6-7 hours to mine 20b- enough for a supercarrier. Since only large alliances can safely field large rorqual fleets, they will become only further entrenched against the "little guy".
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2605
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:15:36 -
[153] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:eiedu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:... - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
... Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it? Yes, there is math behind that! 145% * 68% = 99% The Rorqual was initially announced to have a yield of ~18400 m3 per minute. Someone forgot to put mining augmentor rigs on it, which boosted the yield by 45.475% to 29,226m3 per minute. Reducing it by 32% "cancels out" the rigs and brings it down to 19,873 m3 per minute (~10% discrepancy, probably mining drone spec?) Things tend to need a "nerf" when you tell your economy guys to run a number, then overshoot it by 50%.
This is either an amazing consequence, or the actual reason. Well spotted!
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Kimsemus
Deplorables. ChaosTheory.
164
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:16:51 -
[154] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:So after this change 2 of the 5 drones will effectively be made useless. However each drone mines about as much as one Exhumer, so that still leaves 3 Exhumers worth of yield. Why are people bitching?
Because 3 exhumers don't cost 10b (conservatively) a year's worth of more training, and being completely exposed while in indie siege mode? Oh and an exhumer doesn't fly, warp, and move like a brick with another brick tied to it?
//edit
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6745620#post6745620
If this guy's math is right then nbd, they should have caught that before release though. |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1056
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:21:49 -
[155] - Quote
endless lolling that "our careful analysis and weighing of the factors has determined this is the appropriate nerf to bring this in line to our master plan" is actually "oh right, carry the one...oops" |
Lord Molly
mind games. Suddenly Spaceships.
425
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:35:00 -
[156] - Quote
Gutting for everybody who just spent loads on the drones. They will now do less and become cheep. Ouch
My Youtube Chan
Alliance Youtube Chan
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14975
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:42:18 -
[157] - Quote
Lord Molly wrote:Gutting for everybody who just spent loads on the drones. They will now do less and become cheep. Ouch
honestly this is why my buddies who mine said "I'll wait till after December to try that" lol.
People who have been dealing with CCP for years know to do it that way... |
prayed chiwanba
House Aratus Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:44:10 -
[158] - Quote
If you gona reduce the mining drone by so much you should call them heavy mining drones and seed the bpo on normal mkt,
ccp really we can dock oh no you cant ccp here you go mine away hahaha suckers..... |
Sisi Collins
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:44:49 -
[159] - Quote
Making simple math between
Rorq mining fit: 5x excavator drones, 2x t2 capital mining drone augm, 1x t1 capital mining drone augm, mining drone spec 4lvl, capital indi ship 4lvl, NO PANIC button
We will get 40k m3 per 90sec / 444,44 m3 per 1sec Hull+fit cost approximate - 2.6bil (hull)+6.15bil (drones)+0.945bil (rigs)+1.2bil(some random fit) TOTAL - 10.895bil
Hulk fit+BONUS rorq: perfect skills, perfect rorq bonuses with t2 indi core activated implant +3% 3x t2 mining laser upgrades in low slots t2 crystalls
We will get 3282 m3 per 44.3sec / 74.085 m3 per 1sec Hulk Hull+fit cost approximate - 0.328bil Rorq Hull+fit cost approximate - 2.6bil (hull)+0.3bil (rigs) + 0.8bil (fit) TOTAL - 4.028bil
Taking into account math above: BEFORE NERF 1 MINING RORQ = 6x PERFECT HULK (best bonuses) this will be less due to drone movement.
AFTER NERF (-32%) 1 MINING RORQ = 4x PERFECT HULKS (best bonuses) this will be less due drones movement.
I'll take maximum mining from rorq fit. Rigs for mining are most bad idea, but i've took to show math.
So right now mining rorq from point of view of mining - looks like CAPITAL INDUSTRIAL SHIP, mines like hell.
But with nerf (-32%), 5min being flying frag-brick, prices on drones and hull, and without mining rigs (to add more survivability) - rorqual will not be in my eyes - CAPITAL INDUSTRIAL SHIP. RORQUAL will be just 3 hulks and absolutely not worth investment of 11bil into it.
Investment is so ******* risky....
Increasing drop rate of drones components will lower prices on excavator drones in some time, if there is no nerf implemented. With implementation of nerf, prices on excavator drones will drop, because no one will buy them.
I feel sorry for those who invest a lot into rorquals.
If looking into changes from mining perspective:
-20-25% nerf to excavator drones 2-2.5min duration for industrial core +15-20% increase of speed to excavator drones.
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Ezekiel Amann
Stryker Industries
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:50:31 -
[160] - Quote
I'm not a miner, but I don't think you should do this. The current system is great for PvP content, and that is all too rare in wormholes as is under the current system. With as slow as the drones fly and then a 32% smack to yield most miners will just say screw it and go do something else. Seriously, I like ganking miners it fun, there will be significantly less of them chewing on rocks if you do this. |
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Schlampa
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
6
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:56:37 -
[161] - Quote
Looks like Christmas came early this year. |
Man v Food
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:56:45 -
[162] - Quote
nice fozzie is back after his last ****** idea,now another **** up by fozzie
if you think enough time has passed and people have forgotten your completely useless ideas...it has'nt
and on that note you can refund the isk i spent on these **** drones that move slower than my rorqual and now they are going to mine less than a ship that cost 1/4 that they do
gj fozzie wb tosser |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
502
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:57:17 -
[163] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
This sounds like a bad idea. Wasn't the reason for the new Excavators to exist to give NullSec-miners a better chance at being competitive to HighSec-miners?
Cutting their output by an entire third seems excessive and bad for game balance, I suggest if you guys think it's absolutely necessary, cut it down by 5% or somethings. Far more reasonable. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
260
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:59:46 -
[164] - Quote
Man v Food wrote:nice fozzie is back after his last ****** idea,now another **** up by fozzie
if you think enough time has passed and people have forgotten your completely useless ideas...it has'nt
and on that note you can refund the isk i spent on these **** drones that move slower than my rorqual and now they are going to mine less than a ship that cost 1/4 that they do
gj fozzie wb tosser Don't shoot the messenger
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2833
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 19:59:48 -
[165] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:
This sounds like a bad idea. Wasn't the reason for the new Excavators to exist to give NullSec-miners a better chance at being competitive to HighSec-miners?
What does that even mean?
For funsies, what's the paper IPH of a max-yield Rorqual today? How about the realized IPH?
What would it be once adjusted for this nerf?
What about for high sec mining?
Just trying quantify "a better chance at being competitive to HighSec-miners", here.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Allus Nova
44
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:00:02 -
[166] - Quote
Dammit Fozzie, if you make them ****** then we will not have Rorquals to blow up in space because nobody will use them!!
With as expensive as they are combined with their siege cycle...they SHOULD be a little OP mining wise. It doesn't matter if you make the drones cheaper with better drop rates, if the Rorqual isn't effective, nobody will use it, so we can't hunt them!!
Please rethink the mining yield nerf...32% is HUGE, and it will discourage many people from using them.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! |
Allus Nova
44
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:01:15 -
[167] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Man v Food wrote:nice fozzie is back after his last ****** idea,now another **** up by fozzie
if you think enough time has passed and people have forgotten your completely useless ideas...it has'nt
and on that note you can refund the isk i spent on these **** drones that move slower than my rorqual and now they are going to mine less than a ship that cost 1/4 that they do
gj fozzie wb tosser Don't shoot the messenger
Messengers who are in a position to help shape the discussion are fully culpable. |
Loken Grimsward
Easy Co. Get Off My Lawn
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:04:47 -
[168] - Quote
Take baby step you wanker. Maybe try 16% and wait a month before you **** everyone in the arse with the nerfbat |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
502
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:05:04 -
[169] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:
This sounds like a bad idea. Wasn't the reason for the new Excavators to exist to give NullSec-miners a better chance at being competitive to HighSec-miners?
What does that even mean? For funsies, what's the paper IPH of a max-yield Rorqual today? How about the realized IPH? What would it be once adjusted for this nerf? What about for high sec mining? Just trying quantify "a better chance at being competitive to HighSec-miners", here.
Man, you sure love asking rhetoric questions, do you? |
Philip Shazih
Echelon Research Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:09:57 -
[170] - Quote
Since the announcement Mex has jumped up 7%, Pyrite has jumped up 13% and trit has jumped up 7% with the high end ores decreasing slightly in price.
A perfectly normal response. The nerf is already in the process of undoing a lot of itself... Don't overreact... CCP nerfed volume they did NOT nerf income. |
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2833
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:10:32 -
[171] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:
This sounds like a bad idea. Wasn't the reason for the new Excavators to exist to give NullSec-miners a better chance at being competitive to HighSec-miners?
What does that even mean? For funsies, what's the paper IPH of a max-yield Rorqual today? How about the realized IPH? What would it be once adjusted for this nerf? What about for high sec mining? Just trying quantify "a better chance at being competitive to HighSec-miners", here. Man, you sure love asking rhetoric questions, do you?
A rhetorical question is asked with no expectation of an answer. I'm actually looking for numbers, here.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:18:05 -
[172] - Quote
Rorquals + their drones are overly expensive because they are so OP, prices will come down very very soon.. like around December 13th or sooner. |
waltari
High Flyers Northern Coalition.
22
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:19:20 -
[173] - Quote
posting in a CCP Fozzie's announcement to become spacefamous |
DarkMoon Picard
Space Travellers Administration Yulai Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:23:02 -
[174] - Quote
32% is too much of a nerf. I definately won't be mining with industrial core in future since the risk is too high compared to the reward. I will also be a bit away from the rocks and won't be using excavator drones. I simply cloak or jump away if there is a threat. Due to that the fitting will be a lot cheaper. Since i wont be using the indu core, the miners can swap back to hulks instead of skiffs to compensate the lower yield.
It would've been a better decision to simply disallow the use of the indnustrial core if there is already an industrial core running in the system. This makes multiboxing impossible (at least within the same system).
Nullsec mining dropped to near null in most regions already. This nerf takes away the risk/reward that you wanted to add and also takes away the juicy targets for the PvP people. I guess its time to swap from mining to carrier ratting or to incursions. |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:27:18 -
[175] - Quote
DarkMoon Picard wrote:32% is too much of a nerf. I definately won't be mining with industrial core in future since the risk is too high compared to the reward. I will also be a bit away from the rocks and won't be using excavator drones. I simply cloak or jump away if there is a threat. Due to that the fitting will be a lot cheaper. Since i wont be using the indu core, the miners can swap back to hulks instead of skiffs to compensate the lower yield.
It would've been a better decision to simply disallow the use of the indnustrial core if there is already an industrial core running in the system. This makes multiboxing impossible (at least within the same system).
Nullsec mining dropped to near null in most regions already. This nerf takes away the risk/reward that you wanted to add and also takes away the juicy targets for the PvP people. I guess its time to swap from mining to carrier ratting or to incursions.
OMG IMAGINE THE MINING DRAMA
Only 1 Industrial or Panic module active per system.
|
Rexxen Darkbrew
Hounds Of Haides RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:31:26 -
[176] - Quote
Allus Nova wrote:Dammit Fozzie, if you make them ****** then we will not have Rorquals to blow up in space because nobody will use them!! With as expensive as they are combined with their siege cycle...they SHOULD be a little OP mining wise. It doesn't matter if you make the drones cheaper with better drop rates, if the Rorqual isn't effective, nobody will use it, so we can't hunt them!! Please rethink the mining yield nerf...32% is HUGE, and it will discourage many people from using them. CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
Very well put... Not to mention the fun and logistics and team play that is now required to successfully mine..Just the other day 3 nyx's and a couple sabre's dropped on on a 3 rorq operation ,,,all Rorq's killed. Yah alot less Rorq's to hunt come Dec 13th.
Anyways there are people that came back to the game just because of the new mining implements to the Rorq .Which made it much more useful and fun . So all in all now it's "The big mining changes of Novmber" was just a giant hi-secboost with the Orca's huge new ore hold..Much less reason for people to venture into null and take there chances in industry.
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Market PLLS
Pleasure and Logistics Badfellas Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:32:03 -
[177] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/losses/
Nice rebalance ... |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2835
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:35:26 -
[178] - Quote
Market PLLS wrote:https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/losses/
Nice rebalance ...
You couldn't possibly present a less relevant point.
Some Rorquals died. So the **** what?
How many didn't die? What's the net mining intake Vs. loss?
What's the average loss-per-flight-hour of Rorquals?
Oh, wait. You can't answer any of that because all you know is that some Rorquals died, which, absent any further context, tells you that Rorquals are being flown and little else.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:41:27 -
[179] - Quote
Market PLLS wrote:https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/losses/
Nice rebalance ...
LOL https://zkillboard.com/kill/57961572/
to that specific one. You forgot to point it out. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
466
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:43:33 -
[180] - Quote
these tears... so epic... they fuel me.. |
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Xennos Octavian
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:50:06 -
[181] - Quote
Man v Food wrote:nice fozzie is back after his last ****** idea,now another **** up by fozzie
if you think enough time has passed and people have forgotten your completely useless ideas...it has'nt
and on that note you can refund the isk i spent on these **** drones that move slower than my rorqual and now they are going to mine less than a ship that cost 1/4 that they do
gj fozzie wb tosser
I take it CCP Fozzie is the source of the "Balanced Legion" thing I have heard about the Zkill videos by rhiload (since Fozzie was the guy responsible for the nightmare Svipul).
I can definitely see what you mean by the viability of the Excavators (do they really move slower than a Rorq). If you want to have the Rorq be a Capital Ship capable of mining, you should have it able to function at a suitable level, not at one that a group of much smaller, less expensive Exhumers can out-mine (given the Excavators were once almost equivalent to one Exhumer each). |
Ascenity
Ciggy Butt Brains. ChaosTheory.
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:51:17 -
[182] - Quote
Wait, so in the expansion you gave us a change that made the Risk >>>>>>>> Reward, and now you are removing even more of the reward??? I really hope that you have more plans for making it safer to use the Rorquals for those who do not have a Fat alliance behind them. Don't get me wrong, Excavator drones mined sooo much, but with so so much risk. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2835
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 20:59:19 -
[183] - Quote
Ascenity wrote:Wait, so in the expansion you gave us a change that made the Risk >>>>>>>> Reward,
Yeah, you can tell the risk vastly exceeds the rewards because absolutely nobody is using Rorquals at all anymore.
That's why they need a nerf - lack of use due to insufficient reward:risk ratio.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1059
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:01:06 -
[184] - Quote
Ascenity wrote:Wait, so in the expansion you gave us a change that made the Risk >>>>>>>> Reward, and now you are removing even more of the reward??? I really hope that you have more plans for making it safer to use the Rorquals for those who do not have a Fat alliance behind them. Don't get me wrong, Excavator drones mined sooo much, but with so so much risk. i dont see what our weight problems have to do with this |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2780
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:17:59 -
[185] - Quote
Gobbins wrote:Unbelievable
1. So why would anyone siege 9 bil worth of rorqual to make 200 mil an hour post-nerf, when a 2 bil carrier will make 150 mil/hr while staying fully aligned?
2. By making the excavator cheaper won't most dual boxing rorqs just add a third rorq? the total isk committed to the belt will stay the same, and rorquals are not very hard to multi box - so what do you do then nerf it harder? All this does is makr Rorquals the multi boxer's isk printer while single boxing plebes will stick to carriers.
3. Why not balance the risk reward through **Risk** rather than nerfing reward? For example by nerfing panic mode, or putting a delay between recall and drones entering the bay. Rorquals ops are incredibly easy to disrupt due to how fragile the excavators are. It makes for really interesting game play and counter play and you go and say "oh no we can't have that"
I mean your recent changes have all been a mind boggling series of removing risk from everying:
- Citadels making supers untouchable while moving - ECs making bpos untouchable while building/researching - I mean citadels in general and god knows we've been taking advantage of them - And let's not forget good old hi sec incursions printing equivalent isk to nullsec ratting, but without risk
Finally you had put something interesting in the game and you nerf it? What are you guys even doing?
Man I am so triggered I am sitting here agreeing with goons that's how butt-annhilated I am.
> Leave the big Reward, increase RISK by looking at the panic module OR by making excavators more vulnerable. <
Cripes.
Best post in the thread so far...
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
ckinoutdahoe
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
16
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:22:54 -
[186] - Quote
Good day to CCP and all the players of EVE,
This post will be a bit salty as there is a good bit to be pissed about.
Aside from not getting my ticket addressed for 8 days so I was not able to play..well boohoo right.
Well as a 10 year player and have taken the time to save some 30 bill liquid and have on hand another amount of such if need be for the NOVEMBER 15th massive release.
Not only was I not able to enhance all players who went to the outer ring to convert the LP's they had for isk by via the new bpc's due to being unable to log in........great timing for the 2 part verification BS... massive thumbs up on that. NOT!!!!!
Next, but far less important being able to buy x amount of material for the new drones. Thus, if you think the Imperium has a lot of RORQ's on the field now consider how many left theirs docked due to no excavator drones being available to include 4 of mine. I am sure I can list at least a 1/2 dozen with at least 4 accounts with RORQ's and dozens of others 3 or less accounts wanting to play with the improved version of this massive null sec mining ship
More importantly is that a non named GM stated to one person only about info on what is more or less needed to build them at the vegas convention.....so instead of making a release of the info; one person or group has made trillions of isk at the expense of all the others, nor has CCP addressed the issue to ensure such parts would be available after said person (group) sucked the markets dry well before hand thus after the release you as a RORQ pilot got shafted.
Now that you have spent a billion plus per drone to the tune of about 6 billion plus per set now you get the nerf in less than a month.
Maybe a small nerf is in order but 32%....really !!! for drones that move slow as mole ass's unless you have 3 faction mods on it to help it out a little bit.
So to sum things up...... (1) Rorq at 3 bill, fittings and rigs add another 2.5b to fend off a small fleet at best, and another 6 plus billion for the new drones.......for a grand total of 11.5 plus bill just to mine with the best ship in the game ........and now nerf it in less than a month is deplorable.
There has been ample time in advance to do the math, so leave the nerf in the dust or maybe take 10% and give the new drones some speed.
There is more to say but I hope you see the points addressed in all of our posts to this point.
Thank you for your time |
COMMANDER KATMAN
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:25:22 -
[187] - Quote
CCP the buff to drop rates sure... still going to take time for that to be farmed and hit markets, but you swing to hard this time with The Bat
I think the nerf needs to be more like 10-20% and a balance buff to drone speed so you don't totally kill the whole revamp with this 32%
you could even add some high level skills and lock some of the excavators yield in to the extra skill time investment, rather than just flat nerf the crap out of them
You did good with the rework, don't kill that work being heavy handed.
Also maybe think about adding more than 1 super weapon option, give us other options to the Nexus Core... I am sure we all have tons of good ideas for such mods.
Thanks.
Kat
The EvE Feats Are Real.
-Officer Hunting Legend-.
G£¬G£¬G£¬ 65 Life Time Officer Spawns... !
Read Bio for more details.
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Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
395
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:33:06 -
[188] - Quote
Andail Chanter wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs? PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. Sounds like a nice PL advert. Seriously though, I used to respect Goons. They could take a mechanics and abuse it as hell, showcasing how broken it was. And there were the days when Goons could take on any ~apex force~ with twice the numbers and build a monument of their enemy titan wrecks. |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:35:21 -
[189] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Andail Chanter wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs? PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. Sounds like a nice PL advert. Seriously though, I used to respect Goons. They could take a mechanics and abuse it as hell, showcasing how broken it was. And there were the days when Goons could take on any ~apex force~ with twice the numbers and build a monument of their enemy titan wrecks. just as always, it would literally be impossible for us to care less about the respect of npc pubbies |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:36:52 -
[190] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote: Seriously though, I used to respect Goons.
Found the lie.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:37:26 -
[191] - Quote
Fozzie originally said the excavator mining drones would be 18k m-¦ per minute. The release had them mine 40k m-¦ per 90 seconds which is about 27k m-¦ per minute. a 32% nerf is happening.
0,68 * 26.666m-¦ / minute = 18000 m-¦ / minute. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!! |
Sharasa
Greyhaven Logistical Merchants
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:46:32 -
[192] - Quote
Let me get this straight. I just bought a Rorqual a few days ago because of the exciting new mining calculations i came up with. My only thing I was worried about was losing it during its mining seige. I never got to even use it once. I spent a lot of time and isk to move it. Then you take away the whole reason for me buying it within 2 weeks of the changes. Awesome planning CCP.
I want my 3 billion isk back
|
FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
155
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:46:34 -
[193] - Quote
Well this is interesting. A few days before my Rorquals were due to be delivered too. So, in terms of feedback, there are two different issues here. One is fine, the other is not.
On the not OK front, how is having an invincible seven minute heavy tackle a good thing? Especially one that costs less than a billion more than a properly fit HIC after insurance? A billion in Hics won't get anywhere near that kind of endurance in a real fight. I get that PL went all over-achiever and actually rigged/fit theirs in the recent fight, but that wasn't a requirement to use them as thins kind of tackle.
On the OK front, the nerf seems harsh but it's not changing my plan to buy a bunch of Rorquals. In fact, so long as the drop rate changes to the components bring down the price of the Excavators significantly, it makes them more attractive. I would rather risk 5b in a belt with 1.4b in insurance than 10b. Much less time to see my ROI, even with the payout chopped by a third.
Now, I also live in heavily inhabited space where I can reasonably expect to get a fleet to bail me out well before my PANIC wears off. For somebody without ten thousand foaming at the mouth Goons for backup the math may now look very very different. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
260
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:46:52 -
[194] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:Fozzie originally said the excavator mining drones would be 18k m-¦ per minute. The release had them mine 40k m-¦ per 90 seconds which is about 27k m-¦ per minute. a 32% nerf is happening.
0,68 * 26.666m-¦ / minute = 18000 m-¦ / minute. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!! which makes this basically not a nerf but a bugfix
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Zappity
Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde
3078
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:48:07 -
[195] - Quote
Why? Everyone has already priced in a high end mineral crash. Just let it be. Abundant minerals are essential to local production if you ever want to nerf jump freighters. Just fix T2 supply chain and we're good to go.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Sharasa
Greyhaven Logistical Merchants
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:49:46 -
[196] - Quote
Why don't they have a dislike button like in you tube.
Everyone should be pissed including non miners. Because then you could have killed people like me soloing in 0.0.
|
Nire Retipuj
The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans
5
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:53:47 -
[197] - Quote
So much for believing what was promised. CCP reneged again. Industry Fire Sale tonight in Immensea. Ratting is my new career since miners have been getting undermined for about 11 years now.
Excavators cost 1.5 billion making them cost prohibitive and now they're nerfed. Bad enough it's open season on Rorquals. What a waste of isk and pixels.
Keep breaking our game and watch us all go away. Don't think it cant happen. All you have to do is keep doing what you've been doing for the last eight years and keep making your membership angry. You all have been warned. This path eventually leads to certain doom.
Just offering up some advice to heed. I don't want to see it go because I love this game. Please stop trying to fix what aint broken.
(I understand that "broken" is subjective.) |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
395
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 21:58:45 -
[198] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Andail Chanter wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs? PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC. Sounds like a nice PL advert. Seriously though, I used to respect Goons. They could take a mechanics and abuse it as hell, showcasing how broken it was. And there were the days when Goons could take on any ~apex force~ with twice the numbers and build a monument of their enemy titan wrecks. just as always, it would literally be impossible for us to care less about the respect of npc pubbies Fair enough. Then I'll make the same treatment for you: Everything you say here is either a) propaganda b) metagame c) scam Neither of these is worth reading. Move along people, this is just goons doing their goon thing! |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:00:00 -
[199] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote: Fair enough. Then I'll make the same treatment for you: Everything you say here is either a) propaganda b) metagame c) scam Neither of these is worth reading. Move along people, this is just goons doing their goon thing!
fire is hot, do not stick your hand in it |
Renfus
Dread Fleet
26
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:14:04 -
[200] - Quote
Give Orcas the ability to use the new excavator drones.
((( Alliance Creation )))
Corp Update Service available ( 10,600 Member limit ). ++ Free with Alliance Creation ++
Contact me In-Game.
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Kerono Thalmor
Alexylva Paradox
48
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:15:34 -
[201] - Quote
Rorquals are supposed to be the be-all-end-all of industry-related ships. Having the yield of three hulks doesn't seem like it's worth it instead of having a porpoise and three hulks. But if you guys are seriously bent on changing this, at least buff it in another area in return. A larger ore hold, or a boost in the effectiveness of boosts, even a slight one. I really don't think that just chopping off a third of the yield without doing anything else to the ship is wise, and this is indicated by the (rightfully) irritated posts previous mine.
EDIT: In essence, it may be an oversight on your end, CCP, but now the cat's out of the bag; either don't change the yield, or do something equally useful but less potentially harmful to the economy instead.
GûêGûæGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûêGûêGûæGûêGûæGûê
GûêGûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûê
GûêGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûêGûæGûæGûæGûêGûêGûê
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Cade Windstalker
624
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:27:06 -
[202] - Quote
Kerono Thalmor wrote:Rorquals are supposed to be the be-all-end-all of industry-related ships. Having the yield of three hulks doesn't seem like it's worth it instead of having a porpoise and three hulks. But if you guys are seriously bent on changing this, at least buff it in another area in return. A larger ore hold, or a boost in the effectiveness of boosts, even a slight one. I really don't think that just chopping off a third of the yield without doing anything else to the ship is wise, and this is indicated by the (rightfully) irritated posts previous mine.
EDIT: In essence, it may be an oversight on your end, CCP, but now the cat's out of the bag; either don't change the yield, or do something equally useful but less potentially harmful to the economy instead.
This is just poor logic, if you have four pilots the actual answer is either 4 Rorquals or 1 Rorqual and 3 Hulks, not a Porpoise and 3 Hulks.
Also I'd like to point out that they *just changed the Rorqual* so preventing harm to the economy from the previous changes is exactly what this tweak is trying to do, probably by tweaking the Risk/Reward matrix on the Rorqual a bit and reducing their impact on the economy as a result. |
Cyrus th3V1RUS
Cornerstone Training Academy
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:27:09 -
[203] - Quote
When ever something great and good for the player occurs in this Game Fozzie fks it up. WTF. Ya I'm salty, I just spent crap tons of isk to risk inturn for more reward. So, I'/ll be getting a refund on the Excavators I spent billions on? You already have made us put the rorq into the belts, then add niv\ce fat expensive drones, but the reward is great for your risk....now u fk that in the as5.....why keep subbing I dont know. Eat a diq Fozzie |
Hippojaxx
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:40:50 -
[204] - Quote
As a rorqual miner I assumed a nerf would come in a timely manner. Do I think it's a little soon ? Yes, but what can you do. My big
gest concern is the 10ly jump hictor that is getting a "wait and see" response.
Fozziesmug |
Bleeding Fox
Triplanetary Development Integritas Constans
5
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:47:36 -
[205] - Quote
Deploying that ship makes my heart race. lol. This change hurts my soul but hopefully the argument "nerfing volume, not income" will be true in the bigger picture.
I have my doubts it will be true though, being stuck behind an ore buyback program |
Advenat Bedala
Facehoof Out of Sight.
191
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:47:47 -
[206] - Quote
Looks like CCP finally discovered presence of mining rigs.
IMO most rorqual OP is in "90% reduction to effective distance travelled for jump fatigue"
Rorqual is multi-functional ship, not only industrial |
Solari Eclipse
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 22:58:18 -
[207] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
Thanks!
Perhaps you could nerf them 132% then see where you are from there? Would pay minerals to sit stuck on a anom with 6b in drones that outpace the quickest of glaciers.
Come now, let's not over correct so hard it takes 3 years to figure this out, like the drone bug that shows my seriously spendy drones as being out when they're in my bay or worse vise versa.
How about we fix that, and *balance* mining rather than ignore one or both. |
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
108
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 23:02:44 -
[208] - Quote
So where was this love for mining when the Procurer and Retriever received a 25% yield nerf?
And to the rest; you want more Drone Speed - fit Drone Navigation Computers. You know - that valued Reward vs Risk metric. |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
198
|
Posted - 2016.12.07 23:16:36 -
[209] - Quote
Aasir wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:
Things tend to need a "nerf" when you tell your economy guys to run a number, then overshoot it by 50%.
Your telling me that in all the time they were re balancing the rorqual no one at ccp remembered their were mining drone rigs? Don't even talk to me Care to give a better explanation as to why the actual yield, that made it to the live server, is 50% higher than the presented changes in the dev blog? Can you not multiply the rocks you are getting by their volume or something?
Here's another possibility, after thinking about it some more:
We have established that the yield estimate in the blog is missing a ~50% multiplier. People have been endlessly wondering how the 2000 drone dps in the dev blog was arrived at. 5 Ogre 2's with T2 core and 4 T2 drone damage amps give us 1352 dps according to pyfa.
2000 * 0.68 = 1360
There's an extra 50% multiplier in there.
Drone interfacing gives +50% drone mining yield and +50% drone dps. Not two (stacking) 50% drone dps multipliers. Easy mistake to make on a spreadsheet. Hard to miss when you undock.
Do we get a drone dps buff with this change as well to compensate? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3761
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:17:25 -
[210] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:
We have established that the yield estimate in the blog is missing a ~50% multiplier. People have been endlessly wondering how the 2000 drone dps in the dev blog was arrived at. 5 Ogre 2's with T2 core and 4 T2 drone damage amps give us 1352 dps according to pyfa.
Try using Augmented drones, also what happens if you use Sentries with max Sentry DPS rigs. Also fill all your low slots with W-634 DDA's. The fit to get the max DPS they used is not really sensible. |
|
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
408
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:30:29 -
[211] - Quote
Klavas wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote:Klavas wrote:It amazes me that you see an issue with null sec mining rates yet see no issue with invulnerable neuting hictors that can jump 10LY.
How does leaving that mechanic in place help game play? Man, it's as if GSF members are mailed talking points every morning to spout en masse on the forums. It's almost like anyone that has any interaction with these game mechanics sees what the glaring issues are.
Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon - so yes, I've had a little experience with these game mechanics. So take it from me when I say that it doesn't take a unrealistic re-adjustment or a stretch of the imagination on how to counter a PANIC'd tackle Rorq. It may mean your supers who are fit for max-tick ratting will have to refit before jumping in and committing on any kind of actual PVP, however.
Oh, the choices one must make. Maybe you all will realize this along with realizing that the mining yield nerf isn't actually that bad. With the nerf amount, it's pretty obvious that whoever came up with the original yield number forgot to account for the mining drone rigs and they're correcting for it sooner rather than later. |
Ace Aideron
Red Falcon Group Intrepid Crossing
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:30:59 -
[212] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:- Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
IOW, past buyers who paid more for their Excavators will receive 32% less yield, while future buyers will have the benefit of knowing the new specs and getting them for less cost, due to the drop increases.
In the interest of being fair, will you also be rebating skill points and isk for those of us who sold off lots of assets and worked our asses off to get into Rorquals and Excavators based on the original economics?
Also, when you say "Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI," does that include changes to Rogue Drone Patrols? As things are now, only a few Patrols will drop one AI chip, but the sites are so frig-heavy that they're not economical to run compared to Hordes, even at 10M isk per chip. |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
15
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:33:30 -
[213] - Quote
Sisi Collins wrote:Making simple math between
Rorq mining fit: 5x excavator drones, 2x t2 capital mining drone augm, 1x t1 capital mining drone augm, mining drone spec 4lvl, capital indi ship 4lvl, NO PANIC button
We will get 40k m3 per 90sec / 444,44 m3 per 1sec Hull+fit cost approximate - 2.6bil (hull)+6.15bil (drones)+0.945bil (rigs)+1.2bil(some random fit) TOTAL - 10.895bil
Hulk fit+BONUS rorq: perfect skills, perfect rorq bonuses with t2 indi core activated implant +3% 3x t2 mining laser upgrades in low slots t2 crystalls
We will get 3282 m3 per 44.3sec / 74.085 m3 per 1sec Hulk Hull+fit cost approximate - 0.328bil Rorq Hull+fit cost approximate - 2.6bil (hull)+0.3bil (rigs) + 0.8bil (fit) TOTAL - 4.028bil
Taking into account math above: BEFORE NERF 1 MINING RORQ = 6x PERFECT HULK (best bonuses) this will be less due to drone movement.
AFTER NERF (-32%) 1 MINING RORQ = 4x PERFECT HULKS (best bonuses) this will be less due drones movement.
I'll take maximum mining from rorq fit. Rigs for mining are most bad idea, but i've took to show math.
So right now mining rorq from point of view of mining - looks like CAPITAL INDUSTRIAL SHIP, mines like hell.
But with nerf (-32%), 5min being flying frag-brick, prices on drones and hull, and without mining rigs (to add more survivability) - rorqual will not be in my eyes - CAPITAL INDUSTRIAL SHIP. RORQUAL will be just 3 hulks and absolutely not worth investment of 11bil into it.
Investment is so ******* risky....
Increasing drop rate of drones components will lower prices on excavator drones in some time, if there is no nerf implemented. With implementation of nerf, prices on excavator drones will drop, because no one will buy them.
I feel sorry for those who invest a lot into rorquals.
If looking into changes from mining perspective:
-20-25% nerf to excavator drones 2-2.5min duration for industrial core +15-20% increase of speed to excavator drones.
not only that, but you're stuck in one spot for 5 minutes... and the drones are retardedly slow. you're also a 6+b killmail... so people LOOOVVE to kill you. it's alll about risk vs reward... that 32% is gonna really screw the reward, 15-20% seems more realistic. |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
199
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:38:57 -
[214] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:
We have established that the yield estimate in the blog is missing a ~50% multiplier. People have been endlessly wondering how the 2000 drone dps in the dev blog was arrived at. 5 Ogre 2's with T2 core and 4 T2 drone damage amps give us 1352 dps according to pyfa.
Try using Augmented drones, also what happens if you use Sentries with max Sentry DPS rigs. Also fill all your low slots with W-634 DDA's. The fit to get the max DPS they used is not really sensible. Garde 2's will do 1168 because the sentry rig is stacking penalized with DDA's. The third rig does literally nothing and the second adds 1 dps.
With T2 core, 4 of the best officer drone amps, and a set of Augmented Ogres you get 1636.
The only way you are getting anywhere near 2000 dps, is by adding 7 faction smartbombs to the fit for a total of 1986 DPS. The EP-705 implant will push you to 2005.
The problem with that comes in when you look at the original post:
Quote: Max DPS (no Industrial Core): ~1000 dps Max DPS (with Industrial Core): ~2000 dps
Core off the officer + smartbomb fit is at 1007 drone dps + 368 smartbomb dps. That doesn't add up either.
Now in theory activating the core adds a 100% drone damage bonus so you would think 1007 DPS would turn into ~2000 dps. But those pesky stacking penalties poke their heads out again. That last Officer DDA, being a 5th mod when sieged, adds a whole 44 dps. |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
15
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:39:57 -
[215] - Quote
Lustig Allas-Rui wrote:Grognard Commissar wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! can we at least disallow PANIC whilst an entosis link is active? That is one of the few things a Rorqual can not do. ... what're you looking at? PL has been using PANIC rorqs for HIC and entosis for weeks |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2616
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 00:47:15 -
[216] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote: Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon
"I'm one of the most prolific abusers of this mechanic, so let me tell you why it's not abuse"
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Atomic Virulent
Dark Matter Industrial
169
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:00:18 -
[217] - Quote
I think CCP's decision-making staff needs to be reduced by 32%. |
Lythan Xavolox
Time and all Eternity The Methodical Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:03:19 -
[218] - Quote
"Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay."
So exciting that we decided to make you a present for chrismas... here a nice -32% nerf! |
Barry Ryan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:12:14 -
[219] - Quote
holy **** just leave **** alone. The drones are fine in anythink make them mine more not less. You want the rorq to be the be and end all off mining. So why in the **** would you nerf somethink that cost some ******* much. atm there still about a bill each. in the last 2 year all ccp has been doing is ******* over the indy side of eve. "But," ccp says " we give a small boost to indy but **** you over in ever other way |
Atomic Virulent
Dark Matter Industrial
169
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:12:28 -
[220] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.
My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?
I swear. I feel like quitting.
That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.
Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy.
Imagine spending 7 months of skilling just to FLY an Orca and an Iteron V and then having CCP fck you over by making it possible to fly both in less than 2 weeks. This is only the tip of the iceberg for the many ways CCP has screwed me over.
This however is beyond even their Icelandic douchebaggery. I have 13 accts and spent the last month and a half investing through ISK and skills to put some industrial gears into motion... This may just send me over the cliff for the last time. |
|
MightyGuy
Minion Revolution Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:22:06 -
[221] - Quote
ANOTHER FOZZIE WONDERFUL idea... . we finally get some love for the miners and leave it to fozzie to skullf**k it so hard. The only patch i want to see is "Fozzie quits Eve" i think the population would jump 20% in eve. 32% nerf.. Jesus is that nerf bat heavy,, are you able to pick it up by yourself?
Please .... .fozzie.... quit
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
|
Hans Bonderstadt
62
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:23:52 -
[222] - Quote
It Seems That A Lot Of People Are Unhappy That They Might Have To Risk Something To Get Isk Now ?
the trap is our venue
pussy is on the menu
|
Atomic Virulent
Dark Matter Industrial
169
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:24:11 -
[223] - Quote
Casandra Elise McIntire wrote:Callaghan wrote:Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.
Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.
If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke. Yes this is the new business model. CCP will start putting out revamps on unused, mostly untrained ships, buff them to high heavens and then once the skill injector markets calms back down, they will nerf them back to reasonably broken levels. Next I see Blops being given a ton of love. You know, cause small groups need better ability to fight the evil hordes. (Not cause Blops take a crap ton of training and the injector market will thrive even more.)
You are exactly right. There is no other explanation for it if you have objectively looked at the game over the last 3-4 years. This is how WoW works, League of Legends, HOTS... Buff old, unused classes/heroes, keeps players buying/subbing, nerf what works well.. rinse and repeat. If I hadn't been playing Eve the last 3 years simply off of PLEX I would have never logged in again. When my ISK runs out I may sell for a boat load of ISK or may simply just never return. Right now it looks like never returning is option A. |
Atomic Virulent
Dark Matter Industrial
169
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:27:32 -
[224] - Quote
Hans Bonderstadt wrote:It Seems That A Lot Of People Are Unhappy That They Might Have To Risk Something To Get Isk Now ?
Right, because the time investment of simply getting into a Rorqual is like 3 hrs right? And the time investment of properly fitting a Rorqual is.. even less, like 2 hrs right?
Oh, and they are going for less than Minmatar shuttles on the market too now.... right??
Maybe your idea of risk is Catalyst ganking a Retriever in a starter system? Probably. |
Hans Bonderstadt
62
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:35:01 -
[225] - Quote
Atomic Virulent wrote:
Maybe your idea of risk is Catalyst ganking a Retriever in a starter system? Probably.
What ? Man That Is Against The Rules ... You Do Not Seem Very Smart . You Also Have An Issue Accepting Risk Vs Reward Too ? ?
the trap is our venue
pussy is on the menu
|
Ch3244
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
338
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:42:06 -
[226] - Quote
Without a large increase in base drone speed, it is barely worth mining in rorquals now.
People invested a lot of isk into rorquals, only for you to nerf them one month later. I feel sorry for anyone who actually bought plex for this release.
So CCP, was this just a poorly thought out release or a bait and switch cash grab?
|
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
199
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 01:48:48 -
[227] - Quote
What if using PANIC required an active idustrial core? It would at least leave the pilot unable to navigate for the majority of the invulnerability duration and there is little detriment to legitimate uses.
Then again, it affects other industrial ships in the area. It would just make tackle badgers a thing instead. What's the counter-play to n+1 of those i wonder.
Is there a legitimate reason for ships affected by panic to even be able to lock targets? That would limit abuse to invincible ECM burst and a mostly invulnerable shield burst platform (why marginalize shield command ships?). |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
434
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 02:06:48 -
[228] - Quote
A bit curious why this rather expensive drone is being nerfed. I don't use a Rorqual (I don't mine much or often) but the idea that you now have a decent reason to use one in the belt was nice.
If Rorquals can tackle with impunity, may Citadels also tackle while invulnerable now?
Otherwise, you are going to have to allow ewar to be usable on the Rorqual while it is in PANIC mode.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
|
Last Ninja
Diversity 101 Just let it happen
17
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 02:13:24 -
[229] - Quote
Rip , Mining Ronq |
Ch3244
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
338
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 02:20:45 -
[230] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:One quick note for people Quote: Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price. The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.
Everyone understands that and it is still a horrible change. |
|
Lythan Xavolox
Time and all Eternity The Methodical Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 02:54:44 -
[231] - Quote
Ch3244 wrote:Without a large increase in base drone speed, it is barely worth mining in rorquals now.
People invested a lot of isk into rorquals, only for you to nerf them one month later. I feel sorry for anyone who actually bought plex for this release.
So CCP, was this just a poorly thought out release or a bait and switch cash grab?
Agreed. It is ? |
Kayoss
Insurrection Spaceship Samurai
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 03:00:19 -
[232] - Quote
So much for wasting 12b on this over the last little while. Thanks CCP, I want my ISK back. |
First-of-Four
PH0ENIX COMPANY DRONE WALKERS
2
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 03:29:52 -
[233] - Quote
Mining rorqs were always better than the dev blogs suggested they should be. Adjusting the game to align with CCP's balance vision is a good thing. When the dust settles, people will still be mining in Rorq fleets.
The way this adjustment was made could bear improvement. Players dropped a lot of isk fitting rorquals based on their expected yield and component scarcity. With no time to adjust plans based on the new value of these assets, early adopters have a long road to recap their losses.
Could you revisit the compromise used when kicking rorquals out of astrahuses -> delay the nerf for a while?
Giving early adopters some time to benefit from their investment while the market adjusts to the new plan would help a lot. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2780
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 03:34:08 -
[234] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
So, some folks in here have claimed that CCP actually intended to release the Rorqual with a max possible yield of 18,000, but actually released with 29,000. Now they are just bringing it back to what was intended. Is this true? If so, why didn't you just say that up front?
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station Goonswarm Federation
126
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 04:46:18 -
[235] - Quote
I said it on a recording sullen was doing during the rorqual focus group fozzie is an idiot. Keep sucking on that Pl **** man. |
Prince Mariarty
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 05:58:20 -
[236] - Quote
You just kidding me! I spend lot of buyed plexes to train my 11 rorquals! Builds lot of excavators! and now you nerf my investments and incom!
WHY??? WHY CCP SO F..... STU.... ?
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2844
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 06:32:11 -
[237] - Quote
Prince Mariarty wrote:You just kidding me! I spend lot of buyed plexes to train my 11 rorquals! Builds lot of excavators! and now you nerf my investments and incom! WHY??? WHY CCP SO F..... STU.... ?
Someone is shocked to discover that the flavor of the month is sometimes literally the flavor of the month.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
408
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 06:43:20 -
[238] - Quote
Querns wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote: Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon
"I'm one of the most prolific abusers of this mechanic, so let me tell you why it's not abuse"
It's certainly a more informed vantage point than 99% of GSF who are just parroting the company line. In the mean time, keep jumping your ratting-fit supers into PVP situations whose only hope is to kill the thing tackling it if things go south. Damn, if I can't be more obvious about what the counter is, I'm not sure even CCP can help you.
|
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
199
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 08:23:18 -
[239] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Querns wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote: Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon
"I'm one of the most prolific abusers of this mechanic, so let me tell you why it's not abuse" It's certainly a more informed vantage point than 99% of GSF who are just parroting the company line. In the mean time, keep jumping your ratting-fit supers into PVP situations whose only hope is to kill the thing tackling it if things go south. Damn, if I can't be more obvious about what the counter is, I'm not sure even CCP can help you. The real irony is that the NPCs you live among have it down better than you.
Clearly the solution is to Neut the invincible capital ship who is receiving capacitor transfers from other invincible ships right? Preferably with your own invincible neuting ships of course.
What enthralling gameplay we have here. |
Diminutive Imitation
Solar.Eclipse.
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 08:25:47 -
[240] - Quote
I'm sorry but I must be missing something. EVE is a PvP game, so I have heard for many years. It is also a MMO, not a solo game.
So if the ore does not flow the price on the market goes up. Price of ore goes up which means cost of ships goes up,
Cost of ships up means people have to grind (what ever ISK making thing you do) to buy said ships.
Wouldn't it not be better to have more ore so price is down to enable more people to explode ships instead of spending their time making ISK to buy said ships.
|
|
padraig animal
House Aratus Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 08:32:15 -
[241] - Quote
eiedu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:... - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
... Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it?
Now there is a good comment, not that i disagree with many others.
32% holy frack, excuse me but why didn't you start out lower, instead of nerfing increasing , this was to be expected but that much indeed give us a math why 32% ?
Anyway this makes me a sad panda.
......
|
Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
261
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 09:21:24 -
[242] - Quote
padraig animal wrote:Would you share with us why a 32% reduction was chosen as opposed to something like 20%? Is there any math behind it?
Now there is a good comment, not that i disagree with many others.
32% holy frack, excuse me but why didn't you start out lower, instead of nerfing increasing , this was to be expected but that much indeed give us a math why 32% ?
Anyway this makes me a sad panda.[/quote] Simple: The Roq should be the command ship of a mining fleet so it has to have a huge bonus but it shouldn't replace the other ships. The actual mining should be done in Hulk or skiffs with the support of the Roq to boost them. Pure Roq fleet in save Sov haven't been the basic idea for the Roq changes. |
Vic Jefferson
Knights of Poitot Rote Kapelle
1127
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 09:42:12 -
[243] - Quote
For once in a very long while, sov null was actually beginning to offer line members a local income source that was competitive.
Well that's over now. I don't get this at all - on one hand you want sov null to be fertile grounds for player made content, and on the other hand you continually salt the earth by making sure the line member income is totally in the gutter, and not even competitive with high sec. Space that has to be fought for, guarded. cultivated, and endeared to members ought to actually reward them. This is a huge regression back to space being worthless.
Eve is appealing because it is unapologetic by nature. This just seems like a huge abandonment of embracing a good risk/reward paradigm, probably because it was damaging the all important viability of Hi Sec mining. EvE should be a winner take all game, eve has appeal because it doesn't offer runner-up prizes to everyone, success is savored because it is rare, where nerfing nullsec via these sorts of changes just threatens to further exacerbate an already over-level playing field.
When everything is over-safe, over-homogenized, and over-friendly, EvE will be gone.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
|
Apple129
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 09:51:36 -
[244] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote: Simple: The Roq should be the command ship of a mining fleet so it has to have a huge bonus but it shouldn't replace the other ships. The actual mining should be done in Hulk or skiffs with the support of the Roq to boost them. Pure Roq fleet in save Sov haven't been the basic idea for the Roq changes.
Except you're completely wrong... CCP continuously stated that the Rorqual would be the best mining ship in the game. So why the **** would anyone want to use a hulk or a skiff over a rorqual... do you like to handicap yourself? |
Felix Crusher
House Aratus Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 10:24:13 -
[245] - Quote
The mining yield nerf should be moved to the Industrial Core module, not on the Excavator drones themselves, so mining with the Rorqual not stuck motionless because circumstances dictate won't be a total waste. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
151
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 10:41:37 -
[246] - Quote
Blimey, look at all these angry Goons. A sure sign that the proposed changes must be good for the game. |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
145
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 11:01:31 -
[247] - Quote
400m/h in mining ores becomes 272m/h; still better than most other activities in eve |
Nefariam Mercator Dodixie
Nefariam Mercatoriam
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 11:16:24 -
[248] - Quote
Nice to see CCP breaking there word AGAIN. Whatever happened to soft tweaks of in-game features. 30% is not even close to a soft Tweak its a sledgehammer that again demotes the rorqual into a quirk item. Except for leaving it as a very capable capital tackler strange that PL use that feature and that doesn't get altered at all. Maybe CCP should stop pretending to be unbiased and just change there name to CCPL Online. |
Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research Goonswarm Federation
56
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 11:20:55 -
[249] - Quote
So many people failing at economics in this thread.
Please try to understand that Ore & Mineral prices are not static, and look at what's already happening to the market on those since the announced changes to the drone mining for the Rorqual.
A 32% yield reduction is definitely not the same as a 32% income reduction. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2622
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 12:13:08 -
[250] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Querns wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote: Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon
"I'm one of the most prolific abusers of this mechanic, so let me tell you why it's not abuse" It's certainly a more informed vantage point than 99% of GSF who are just parroting the company line. In the mean time, keep jumping your ratting-fit supers into PVP situations whose only hope is to kill the thing tackling it if things go south. Damn, if I can't be more obvious about what the counter is, I'm not sure even CCP can help you. The real irony is that the NPCs you live among have it down better than you.
Silly me, thinking you should be able to kill a tackling ship.
But, hey, I'm sure that four heavy scram, three staggered heavy cap booster rorquals with nos are very neutable, ahyuck.
You seem awfully focused on the fit of the wyvern. Why is that? This is 2016; supercarriers are for ratting.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
21879
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 12:35:36 -
[251] - Quote
Buehehehe.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ Osprey
|
Drunk Gatekeeper
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 12:45:56 -
[252] - Quote
Okay. I'm fine with this, CCP.
IF you return my skill points for absolutely obliterating my investment with this pants on head up-date.
Thank you in advance. |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
322
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 12:56:07 -
[253] - Quote
Most people dont seem to see that rorquals have already devalued them selfs by 40% so by reducing the yield, the value of ore mined will increase again there for balancing the isk value of the yield reduction out
CCP also stated max yield would be 20,000 per min.
at present its 30,000 m3 per min. which is suprisingly 50% more than what they aimed for.
this "nerf" brings it down to the figures they stated. nothing more |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:02:42 -
[254] - Quote
Drunk Gatekeeper wrote:Okay. I'm fine with this, CCP.
IF you return my skill points for absolutely obliterating my investment with this pants on head up-date.
Thank you in advance.
Skill Extractors Bruh. You have lots of time to mine to pay for them
|
NIJofleyUK
Instant Annihilation Triggerkittens
17
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:03:13 -
[255] - Quote
Ya, I would agree the tank on the rorqual is a smidge too much, nerf bat incoming soon I'd guess.
Instant Annihilation ::
> Join channel IAPUB for more information! (Recruiting)
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3007
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:10:58 -
[256] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks! So, some folks in here have claimed that CCP actually intended to release the Rorqual with a max possible yield of 18,000, but actually released with 29,000. Now they are just bringing it back to what was intended. Is this true? If so, why didn't you just say that up front?
Have to swallow their pride and admit they somehow forgot rig existed to come up front with that while just saying it's a nerf don't require to admit something was goofed up.
You'd think that they would have checked all the boxes when making such drastic changes to mining with a change to how boost work and what those boosting ship behavior is changed to... |
padraig animal
House Aratus Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:14:07 -
[257] - Quote
Next nerf will be the panic module, because it is a industrial ship now being used in pvp. Mark my words
Time will tell if it was worth to train and invest in those drones, i expect this will be the first nerf or many others to follow.
......
|
Drunk Gatekeeper
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:31:41 -
[258] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Drunk Gatekeeper wrote:Okay. I'm fine with this, CCP.
IF you return my skill points for absolutely obliterating my investment with this pants on head up-date.
Thank you in advance. Skill Extractors Bruh. You have lots of time to mine to pay for them
Yeah. Bruh.
I bought skill extractors to get where I am. A lot of them.
I didn't buy a Rorqual or the drones yet, so no - I can't mine back my investment. And I certainly won't make that extra investment now. |
Drecko Valdez
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:41:04 -
[259] - Quote
Anyone who mined with a well-skilled rorq these past weeks knows it was broken. It mined too much. Everyone was jumping on the bandwagon, injecting mass amounts of sp to get in on the crazy amounts of ore the rorq was able to pull in. If you injected sp to jump on the bandwagon you have only yourself to blame.
I've always loved the rorq and been a rorq pilot for a long time, but in its current form it's a bit broken. Let's be honest, 400-450 mill per hour mining is a bit much. Now it'll only be around 250-300. It's not like its useless. With the panic module and ability mine a lot, and boost its fleet, seems to me only the fairweather rorqs will leave.
I think many of the complaints are from those who hope to keep crazy OP rorq the way it is out of greed. And those that injected SP who are sad the isk train is slowing down.
Also, reducing the cost of the excavator drones is a help to the rorq, since those are vulnerable outside of panic. Hopefully you position your rorq (and reposition as needed) on top of the rocks to shorten their travel time and make it quicker to scoop them.
tl;dr if you're :mad: about the reduction in rorq mining effectiveness you're probably either greedy or misinformed. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
395
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 14:44:28 -
[260] - Quote
Drunk Gatekeeper wrote:Yeah. Bruh.
I bought skill extractors to get where I am. A lot of them.
I didn't buy a Rorqual or the drones yet, so no - I can't mine back my investment. And I certainly won't make that extra investment now. Feel the pain of all those pilots who trained for tracking titans. Then take a deep breath and get over it. Or rage quit, I dont care. |
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Laenas
Imperial Synthesis Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 15:29:56 -
[261] - Quote
CCP poor business decision #infinity, don't release stuff that is broken just to "see how it goes" it's terrible for the game. People get invested and then you rip out the rug from under their feet. It hurts player retention and it's a bad business decision CCP make multiple times a year.
Can you just stop |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1070
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 15:30:34 -
[262] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:Querns wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote: Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon
"I'm one of the most prolific abusers of this mechanic, so let me tell you why it's not abuse" It's certainly a more informed vantage point than 99% of GSF who are just parroting the company line. In the mean time, keep jumping your ratting-fit supers into PVP situations whose only hope is to kill the thing tackling it if things go south. Damn, if I can't be more obvious about what the counter is, I'm not sure even CCP can help you. The real irony is that the NPCs you live among have it down better than you. its so easy, all you need are neuting bumping naglfars and you can easily kill these untacklable titans
oh wait its 2016 not 2006
its so easy, all you need are neuting bumping supercarriers and relying on the invincible rorqual to have forgotten his cap boosters |
Trevize Demerzel
20
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:03:52 -
[263] - Quote
Allow me to help out CCP:
Taken from: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/mining-foreman-revolution/#RORQ
Quote: Whether these modes are running or not, the ability to field 5 GÇÿExcavatorGÇÖ Mining Superdrones will make the Rorqual the greatest mining vessel in the history of New Eden.
So let me update that for ya:
Whether these modes are running or not, the ability to field 5 GÇÿExcavatorGÇÖ Mining mediocre-drones will make the Rorqual a crazy high risk mining vessel that can mine only slightly better then you could before with a hulk and a few cans. It will be the fastest fire sale of any ship ever in the history of New Eden.
There we go. That'll help clarify things on the Rorq.
-
|
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
408
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:08:42 -
[264] - Quote
Querns wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote:Querns wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote: Here's the thing - I was one of the Rorq pilots on the D-W beacon
"I'm one of the most prolific abusers of this mechanic, so let me tell you why it's not abuse" It's certainly a more informed vantage point than 99% of GSF who are just parroting the company line. In the mean time, keep jumping your ratting-fit supers into PVP situations whose only hope is to kill the thing tackling it if things go south. Damn, if I can't be more obvious about what the counter is, I'm not sure even CCP can help you. The real irony is that the NPCs you live among have it down better than you. Silly me, thinking you should be able to kill a tackling ship. But, hey, I'm sure that five heavy scram, two staggered heavy cap booster rorquals with nos are very neutable, ahyuck.
Indeed, they are. I wish I had been frap'ing my screen during that drop, because you would be able to see that running 5 HWDs and 3 links, having to spank the capital MWD to stop from getting flung out by dreads spawning and insta-sieging inside me, that capacitor management was absolutely key and a struggle to maintain. At several points I had to stop running all my HWDs and run only a few in order to maintain just a sliver of cap to keep the links on. Only a scant few heavy neuts would have caused me real problems in terms of keeping adequate tackle... certainly enough for a super or titan to escape.
But no, those heavy neuts didn't happen - because according to you guys the high slots on a super are home to only 3 modules and never any others. I'm both surprised and not surprised that I'm having to explain this - but much like the GSF member near the end of Jay's video who said "lol we rekt them", there seems to be a distinct lack of clue as to what's really going on.
Querns wrote: You seem awfully focused on the fit of the wyvern. Why is that? This is 2016; supercarriers are for ratting.
Then don't cry when they start hitting the floor in non-ratting situations?
The other supers which died were marginally better fitted for suddenly PVP, however judging from the contents of their cargo and fleet hangars, one sees that The Goon is still very much behind the curve on using them usefully in combat overall. Much like the debate within GSF to stay shield or go armor, some myopic decisions have been made to ensure that their super pilots are survivable or, at least, ready to be so. |
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1070
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:15:04 -
[265] - Quote
"you see, my cap management was difficult because i fit my invincible rorqual poorly, this means it's well balanced!" |
Vic Jefferson
Knights of Poitot Rote Kapelle
1131
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:18:36 -
[266] - Quote
Drecko Valdez wrote:I've always loved the rorq and been a rorq pilot for a long time, but in its current form it's a bit broken. Let's be honest, 400-450 mill per hour mining is a bit much. Now it'll only be around 250-300. It's not like its useless. With the panic module and ability mine a lot, and boost its fleet, seems to me only the fairweather rorqs will leave.
No, no it's really not that much ISK considering the build up, maintenance, and risks.
Hi-Sec Incursions, 110-150 per hour: Effectively zero risk Effectively not depletable Require minimal investment Cannot be taken away from the player Require no active defense Creates no player content Does not require Sov
Rorqual Mining, 250-300 per hour (your new estimate): Very Risky Very depletable, mineral markets can crash, belts can dry up Requires huge individual investment Can be interrupted by other players Requires active defense Creates massive amounts of player content Require Sov
CCP has a decade+ of player behavior patterns. Time and time again we have seen that the vast majority of people will hedge their betting down to almost nothing and take the secure income every time. They need to change this, and some avenues suggest some in CCP get it - coercing players into taking risks, thus enriching New Eden, requires that these risks be worth taking.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Ted McManfist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
115
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:26:33 -
[267] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Blimey, look at all these angry Goons. A sure sign that the proposed changes must be good for the game.
Reading isn't your strongest skill, is it? It's OK, your "Grr Gons" is adorable |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2629
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:26:50 -
[268] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote: Indeed, they are. I wish I had been frap'ing my screen during that drop, because you would be able to see that running 5 HWDs and 3 links, having to spank the capital MWD to stop from getting flung out by dreads spawning and insta-sieging inside me, that capacitor management was absolutely key and a struggle to maintain. At several points I had to stop running all my HWDs and run only a few in order to maintain just a sliver of cap to keep the links on. Only a scant few heavy neuts would have caused me real problems in terms of keeping adequate tackle... certainly enough for a super or titan to escape.
But no, those heavy neuts didn't happen - because according to you guys the high slots on a super are home to only 3 modules and never any others. I'm both surprised and not surprised that I'm having to explain this - but much like the GSF member near the end of Jay's video who said "lol we rekt them", there seems to be a distinct lack of clue as to what's really going on.
Then don't cry when they start hitting the floor in non-ratting situations?
The other supers which died were marginally better fitted for suddenly PVP, however judging from the contents of their cargo and fleet hangars, one sees that The Goon is still very much behind the curve on using them usefully in combat overall. Much like the debate within GSF to stay shield or go armor, some myopic decisions have been made to ensure that their super pilots are survivable or, at least, ready to be so.
Seems like you shouldn't have been running the links, then, and fit for more cap, while bringing the links on dedicated (or at least less cap hungry) auxiliary rorquals.
None of this changes the fact that jump hictors are overpowered and need to be nerfed. I'll "cry" less about losing supers when you and yours stop crying about losing your overpowered toys.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund Goonswarm Federation
1072
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:33:32 -
[269] - Quote
alternatively, the invincible rorquals could have dropped a bit of the structure tank because, you know, they're invincible for cap mods |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2629
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:36:44 -
[270] - Quote
but hey tell me more about running unbonused armor links for a ship with 84,000 EHP in armor
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Capitan Levis
Netherstorm Prothean Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:44:51 -
[271] - Quote
Why are you doing this? what is the meaning of the game ,if rorchach only dig does not work, as it drained her, stoiomst Rorqual, it does not justify production, you'd better come up with a means of lamps in the system, and not all garbage, and in General your patch since November 15, complete bullshit, you can't come up with something really interesting |
Gisele Serebriakova
Norman's Meat Market
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 16:49:39 -
[272] - Quote
The new Rorq's have been nuking mineral prices in Jita 4-4 since launch. t1 Hull prices are down something like 20%. Mineral prices drop but hull prices stick: margins on hulls have ballooned to 1-2mil a slot/hr even as the price declines daily.
IDK what to tell you a nerf to yield is probably better then just waiting for the inevitable price collapse. |
PorkCleaner
Kronic Using Space Heros Fidelas Constans
8
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 17:08:33 -
[273] - Quote
I got lucky with my rorqual because I had most components for the build. Nevertheless I disagree with CCP's interpretation of the data.
Risk/Reward There are countless examples of high value items being placed at risk for high reward in Eve. All of them in PVP or PVE; for the first time, there was something of the like in Indy but now gone.
Market vrs. Content For every other facet of the game, the balancing is in the experience itself; but for some unfair reason, anything done to Indy has to be scrutinized by stats on the economic balance. It is a game and the experience should not be forgotten. In this case, the thrill of putting your balls on the window while raking in ore.
Quantity vrs. Content What makes the best patches or updates are not the balances but the new content. What is lost on CCP and many is that the new content is a rebalance in-itself. Things that were missing or lacking, when adjusted makes a balance. If the Rorqual was going to mess with the exhumers and price of ore, then offer something else on the rorqual not yet offered in content. you are game designers - use imagination.
IN the end, I am disappointed with the reasoning because faulty reasoning is hard to fix and will translate to other poor decisions.
Porky
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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2629
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 17:56:35 -
[274] - Quote
Some things that could be done to mitigate the awful quality of this thread:
* Briefly explain the reasoning behind the rorqual yield reduction. If the reason is indeed that the capital drone mining rigs weren't taken into account, then I think most people will be okay with that. We may rib you a little for forgetting it, but it's at least consistent and unbiased. That counts for a lot.
* Make a statement about PANIC and electronic warfare. I and others realize that the December patch is on Tuesday, and between that and the imminent holiday season, it's highly unlikely that any change would actually occur until 2017. That being said, a statement affirming the intent to nerf the "jump hictor" would do a lot to quell the bad reactions going on.
Obviously, I, as well as my confederates in Goonswarm Federation, would prefer to have mega-yield crok-sucking Rorquals, but if logic and reasoning are used to explain things, we would have little remaining ground to protest.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Frances Voltaire
Eldorado Exhumers
5
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 18:12:25 -
[275] - Quote
Since the Excavator is getting nerfed by 32%, will the materials required to build the drone also get nerfed by 32%?
So instead of 50 Elite Drone AI components we would now only need 34?
Will this also mean a 32% reduction in time to Skill Rorqual and skill the Drones too?
Just saying, if your going to nerf capability you should also nerf the requirements to create and use by the same amount to keep it balanced.
Inquiring Miners want to know.
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Kayoss
Insurrection Spaceship Samurai
2
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 18:18:18 -
[276] - Quote
Maybe start with a 15% reduction in Ore Mined and a 100% boost to Excavator Drone Speed. I think that would be a much better start that isn't over kill. Or send everyone with a Rorq 10 Skill Extractors so we can get my Skill Points back. |
Samarr Ramadge
Dead Eye Development for Dummies
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 19:23:17 -
[277] - Quote
no. guys, no. you should think twice before committing new updates. so be as it is. enough. |
ckinoutdahoe
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
23
|
Posted - 2016.12.08 22:38:22 -
[278] - Quote
A question: Is the amount mined with what is now the best mining ship in the game really worth the nerf?
The drones are slow as **** even with 3 drone nav mods to move them along.
The cost of the Rorq, all the mods and rigs and the new mining drones themselves are a fortune. 10 billion for something very cheap and closer to 14 with faction, dead space, or other wise fitted.
We have spent as a collective group who have spent massive isk to inject skills or plex characters that were otter wise potentially inactive.
We have spent months or longer working our back sides off in one form or another to ensure we have a ship or a few and have enough isk to buy the expected expensive new drones.
The Rorq is still only doing what was initially intended to mine: 5 hulks worth of ore since they are so bloody slow no matter what you do.
So, with this said; it is us as those who decide to mine unprotected no matter what you do you are a exceptionally expensive target with far less in the the way of defense compared to other capitals if you want to garner a decent yield for your time.
Personally, I think you should TOTALLY reconsider any nerf as it is not OUR faults that those who have 1/2 a brain put the ship to good use.........SO, what is the complaint? we use the ship as intended? boo hoo.
I find this to be a very unsatisfactory way of handling a situation that has many months to trouble shoot.
Who finds a 32% nerf to be exceptionally excessive? I know I do.
Perhaps it is time to actually consider how your paying members feel before taking a sledge hammer to them.
We are very adaptable as players and as people in general but we all have feelings and are a bit weary being brutalized as we have been over the last couple of years.
If this was a areal problem we would bring it to your attention and then consideration of addressing this would be appropriate.
This message is far less salty than the last and I have taken the time to send a message with more clarity and thought compared to the last.
For me to take this much time as well as so many others has to have some value worth considering.
Now then, it seems the ball is in your court. I do hope your final decision is as thoughtful and well considered for what you decide for in the end the question will be.....Do you have happy players or ones that are yet again disgruntled and disgusted in our game play. What and how you decide is important. Show us how important we are to you. |
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
408
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 01:07:40 -
[279] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:alternatively, the invincible rorquals could have dropped a bit of the structure tank for cap mods because, you know, they're invincible
Buffer's there for insurance; affording time to hit the PANIC mod on a possibly (and predictably true, as it turned out) lagged out and quite busy grid. It could absorb 2 DDs. Chances are that if I didn't PANIC by the time a first one landed, I better do it then because probably the second one is coming in right behind it. You know, like any competent DD coordination these days. My Rorq may not have needed it in the end, but we were prepared for one of several plausible outcomes.
At any rate, one doesn't counter neuts with low slot capacitor mods, bro. CPRs might work against your daily nemesis the Blood Raiders, but not against the possibility of multiple staggered heavy/capital neuts alpha'ing your cap. I guess you really tricked us there, as the only neuts of consequence on grid were our alts :laffo: |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2637
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 01:23:56 -
[280] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote: CPRs might work against your daily nemesis the Blood Raiders
This statement is funny, because you and yours are shooting more rats per member on a given day these days than your meatshield.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Nivek Steyer
CPE1704TKS SWARTA.
35
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 03:03:49 -
[281] - Quote
CCP: Its amazing how fast you give out the best miner in eve, handicap the drones with speed then nerf the bonus. How about increasing the moon mins so that everyone can mine them. I mean fair is fair right so lets come out with something for moon mining in HS. Why not Moon T2 products are manipulated by every 0.0 alliance, at all. Wow, sad you all don't see that having people get cheaper ships would be more fun for all. More PvP for us all. I remember a time when CCP said that T2 should only be 2x the cost of a T1. I think that was lost in the bubble and 0.0 was used to cash cow afk mining. Don't you think Alpha clones would love to fly cheaper ships, more fun, and less grind for all. Cheers! Oh, and its time to get rid of the T3 cruiser skill loss. No reason at all anymore to loose skill points. CCP please come on, you get something out that is great and then you kill it. 6 years to fix the rorqual and what less than 2 weeks to nerf it. Outstanding! Cheers! |
Sharasa
Greyhaven Logistical Merchants
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 03:41:54 -
[282] - Quote
Way to go CCP. Do you honestly think you've given enough time to evaluate risk vs reward???
I haven't even had a chance to outfit my Rorqual that I bought before you made this change. You didn't even allow enough time for observation for the many players like me to go out and lose their multibillion isk ship. The Rorqual losses were going to happen.
The mega corps get these first and they are the best protected... DUH
Morons... |
Lotus Rose
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 03:53:55 -
[283] - Quote
For your reading pleasure
~ An hour in the life of a mining rorqual.
Undock in an ungodly expensive space brick with drones which cost more than a carrier, each. Align and warp somewhere with rocks to mine. Eventually arrive. Realise that the closest unmined rock is 30k away, start to move in that direction. Sigh and warp back to a place you can actually dock your space brick and fit some kind of module which makes you go faster. Eventually arrive back in the busy place that rocks go to die. Find a free space rock, start the journey in the direction. Try to start slowing the brick, frantically pressing control space. Bounce off the looming space rock. Sigh and reposition. Launch the scary expensive drones. Manically check local and intel channels for the 20th time, finger hovering over the indy core. Tell yourself that it is all going to be ok. Push the button. Briefly wonder if you are bad because you clicked it. A clicker. Going to hell now. Watch the slowest drones in the universe as they bumble to the selected rock. Check intel again. Rats spawn. Look to see who is getting the business. Realise that no one is going to kill them.Pull in the slow mining buddies, sigh, kill the rats. Watch as someone loots the faction spawn. Heart races as you read about the command destroyers coming to steal the carrier priced peanut sized little miners that are finally arriving at the rock. Decycle the indy core... just in case. The threat is close, pull the drones back into the nest. Wait a while, with much checking that the coast is clear. Notice that another mining behemoth has drifted close to you and has cheekily started mining the rock you spent an age approaching with murder in your heart. Sigh and approach another rock. Decide to activate indy core as you decelerate. Realise that your mining brick is slowing, well, very slowly. Bounce off the rock and wait out the rest of the indy core timer as you drift further and further away. Watch as your little drones take a painfully long time to make it back to you to deposit their goodness as you float into the distance. Sigh, wait out the timer and reposition. Scratch head wondering why all the little barges are approaching you. Get reproached for not making your fleet hangar open so that they can use you to reprocess their ores. Hide all your things in the cargo bay. Don't want people touching your stuff. Stare at the screen blankly as the rock pops and the drones return to you, dancing about in glee. Realise that the rock had been mined almost to death and left to linger. Sigh. Warp back to that place, you know, where you can get a rock scanner. Refit. Make it back to the place where rorquals go to die. Look around, attempt to use the rock scanner and accidently press the cyno. Short lived relief that it wasn't the panic module followed by horror due to the reaction of everyone around you. Reassure everyone. Resolve to never make that mistake again. Until next time. Sigh. Wait out the timer. See some space rocks around you popping. See the cyno finally decycle and feel proud that at least it didn't go into the humiliating second cycle. Look for a rock to mine, realise that there are only mercoxit rocks left. Launch yourself at the closest one, wondering where all the other mining rorquals went. Position. Indy core. Can't mine that mercoxit with these here drones. Sigh. Wait out timer. Pick finger nails. Check intel for the 131st time. Head to a place where you can park your fat bottomed mining goddess and get into a procurer to mine the mercoxit after being berated for not cleaning mercoxit up. Well folks, that's the end of the tale now as clearly, there isn't a rorqual to discuss anymore. Thanks for bearing with me.
These may or may not be actual events related to actual miners with actual miner rage. |
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation
37
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 04:04:42 -
[284] - Quote
Again guys, CCP either A, Forgot Mining Rigs existed; Or B, changed the drone interfacing skill into a double damage bonus in their heads. They now have their stated yield. |
Sharasa
Greyhaven Logistical Merchants
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 04:05:24 -
[285] - Quote
Lotus Rose wrote:For your reading pleasure
~ An hour in the life of a mining rorqual.
Undock in an ungodly expensive space brick with drones which cost more than a carrier, each. Align and warp somewhere with rocks to mine. Eventually arrive. Realise that the closest unmined rock is 30k away, start to move in that direction. Sigh and warp back to a place you can actually dock your space brick and fit some kind of module which makes you go faster. Eventually arrive back in the busy place that rocks go to die. Find a free space rock, start the journey in the direction. Try to start slowing the brick, frantically pressing control space. Bounce off the looming space rock. Sigh and reposition. Launch the scary expensive drones. Manically check local and intel channels for the 20th time, finger hovering over the indy core. Tell yourself that it is all going to be ok. Push the button. Briefly wonder if you are bad because you clicked it. A clicker. Going to hell now. Watch the slowest drones in the universe as they bumble to the selected rock. Check intel again. Rats spawn. Look to see who is getting the business. Realise that no one is going to kill them.Pull in the slow mining buddies, sigh, kill the rats. Watch as someone loots the faction spawn. Heart races as you read about the command destroyers coming to steal the carrier priced peanut sized little miners that are finally arriving at the rock. Decycle the indy core... just in case. The threat is close, pull the drones back into the nest. Wait a while, with much checking that the coast is clear. Notice that another mining behemoth has drifted close to you and has cheekily started mining the rock you spent an age approaching with murder in your heart. Sigh and approach another rock. Decide to activate indy core as you decelerate. Realise that your mining brick is slowing, well, very slowly. Bounce off the rock and wait out the rest of the indy core timer as you drift further and further away. Watch as your little drones take a painfully long time to make it back to you to deposit their goodness as you float into the distance. Sigh, wait out the timer and reposition. Scratch head wondering why all the little barges are approaching you. Get reproached for not making your fleet hangar open so that they can use you to reprocess their ores. Hide all your things in the cargo bay. Don't want people touching your stuff. Stare at the screen blankly as the rock pops and the drones return to you, dancing about in glee. Realise that the rock had been mined almost to death and left to linger. Sigh. Warp back to that place, you know, where you can get a rock scanner. Refit. Make it back to the place where rorquals go to die. Look around, attempt to use the rock scanner and accidently press the cyno. Short lived relief that it wasn't the panic module followed by horror due to the reaction of everyone around you. Reassure everyone. Resolve to never make that mistake again. Until next time. Sigh. Wait out the timer. See some space rocks around you popping. See the cyno finally decycle and feel proud that at least it didn't go into the humiliating second cycle. Look for a rock to mine, realise that there are only mercoxit rocks left. Launch yourself at the closest one, wondering where all the other mining rorquals went. Position. Indy core. Can't mine that mercoxit with these here drones. Sigh. Wait out timer. Pick finger nails. Check intel for the 131st time. Head to a place where you can park your fat bottomed mining goddess and get into a procurer to mine the mercoxit after being berated for not cleaning mercoxit up. Well folks, that's the end of the tale now as clearly, there isn't a rorqual to discuss anymore. Thanks for bearing with me.
These may or may not be actual events related to actual miners with actual miner rage.
Awesome ^ That's about right I'm sure
|
Lotus Rose
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 04:38:51 -
[286] - Quote
I finally escaped being stuck in a bubble where the main highlight was getting to watch a rorqual transform. So many new things to bounce off of.
I was sad to notice how inaccurate the estimated value of the ore bay was, Evepraisal schooled me well though, Now if I could just find someone to buy this ore, mined with blood, sweat and tears,, Not necessarily my own though.
CCPLS make some of the rocks shoot back, My eyes start to get so heavy, watching the hypnotising excavator drones swaying around. Ore (hah sorry, couldn't resist) give rorquals their own doomsday devices, which can only be used against other rorquals. End rorqual rage, survival of the fittest.
#rorquallivesmatter |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
201
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 05:21:54 -
[287] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote: At any rate, one doesn't counter neuts with low slot capacitor mods, bro. CPRs might work against your daily nemesis the Blood Raiders, but not against the possibility of multiple staggered heavy/capital neuts alpha'ing your cap. I guess you really tricked us there, as the only neuts of consequence on grid were our alts :laffo:
Man it's so hard to manage the cap. Must be balanced. Good thing the industrial core prevents incoming remote capacitor transfers eh?
|
Nessto Lombardi
Nocturnal Tumescence Fidelas Constans
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 05:41:54 -
[288] - Quote
32% seems a bit harsh.
As the citadels have better refine.
More reduction to material cost.
This increased mining shouldn't get cut alone. Maybe hit each area with a 10% |
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Fleet
34
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 05:56:36 -
[289] - Quote
WTF CCP you broke constant "isk vs reward" 32% nerf kill this profeshion if you don't have t2 all 5 fit and rorqual in 5. You make again **** in balance, and forgot you mistake in capital rebalance "we want another chose in first capital question - dread or carr" again be in sige 5 min lose vs be free for move. |
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Fleet
34
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 06:44:18 -
[290] - Quote
MightyGuy wrote:ANOTHER FOZZIE WONDERFUL idea... . we finally get some love for the miners and leave it to fozzie to skullf**k it so hard. The only patch i want to see is "Fozzie quits Eve" i think the population would jump 20% in eve. 32% nerf.. Jesus is that nerf bat heavy,, are you able to pick it up by yourself?
Please .... .fozzie.... quit
This is just another way the ccp screws its players. People have invested heavily into roquals and drones. Now you look at it and see Wow they really enjoy this.. We cant have that ... we are ccp. I swear ccp's Montra that is painted on every wall in the office.
IF ITS NOT BROKE FIX IT TILL IT IS. Fozzy don't undestand rig module specialization (+40% mining yeld) have problem - rorqual lose tank, and be easy target after 7.5 min, his have reward for it. |
|
Strykr X
X-COM Navy Fidelas Constans
22
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 06:58:58 -
[291] - Quote
I don't know if this has been mentioned before , but this nerf is bullshit. |
Anthar Thebess
1660
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 08:34:07 -
[292] - Quote
God hate miners. Kids hate miners. CODE hate miners. CCP (finally) hate miners.
GJ.
Please work on this 7min invul super point thingy - it is broken as hell. Instead of increasing drop rates of this drone materials - increase spawn rate of signatures that them drop all around eve. It is always better when more things are moving.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
264
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 10:16:23 -
[293] - Quote
ckinoutdahoe wrote:Perhaps it is time to actually consider how your paying members feel before taking a sledge hammer to them.
We are very adaptable as players and as people in general but we all have feelings and are a bit weary being brutalized as we have been over the last couple of years. Please tell us more about your feelings. How did you feel when you found out that a max-yield rigged Rorqual mines 50% more than advertised? How did you feel when you read that CCP was keeping the immobility timer on the industrial core, thus ensuring that only the biggest, most organised groups can field it with managable risk (and you, by coincidence, were part of one of these few groups)?
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
regretfully gentle
Out of Focus Odin's Call
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 10:30:05 -
[294] - Quote
CCP are like the British Government...
Protect the mega corporations at all costs and screw the little ones who invested a significant percentage of their GDP in Rorquals in NullSec and WH space in good faith...
Mega Corps purchased dozens of Rorquals and made their investment back within hours.
Small corps just lost their investment.
Hisec carebears just won again. If I wasn't allergic to HiSec I would go there to make isk - but I break out in a rash everytime I go there.
Hows about you nerf the range of Jump Freighters, decrease the mining yield of the drones by 20% and increase their base speed.
Just show a little less of the "knee jerk reaction" and give the current model more time? Oh any implement hard ass drifters that spawn in roid belts or anoms if there are more than 5 Rorquals on grid? These bad ass drifters then target the Rorquals and **** them up wholesale? That's a MUCH more fun way of restricting the dirty multi-boxing mofo's...
So yeh - I VOTE bad ass invading Drifter's spawning to kill Rorquals as soon as there are 5 on grid. And they are equipped with the "KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON" module that disables the PANIC module. |
Hisana
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 11:41:23 -
[295] - Quote
I don't like this update at all.
The Rorqual and its drones should be very expensive. There should be a huge risk involved in using them. With this update you remove that risk completely. Isn't EVE supposed to be a risk vs. reward game? We just had that and you're taking it away. |
Lotus Rose
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 11:51:04 -
[296] - Quote
Hisana wrote:I don't like this update at all.
The Rorqual and its drones should be very expensive. There should be a huge risk involved in using them. With this update you remove that risk completely. Isn't EVE supposed to be a risk vs. reward game? We just had that and you're taking it away.
It's ok, they're taking away 32% of the reward too. Maybe they'll balance each other out. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18475
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 11:57:03 -
[297] - Quote
Its astonishing the number of people who didn't see this coming months ago. |
Maria Senseye
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 12:01:59 -
[298] - Quote
It's a game and it should be played as a game not like 2nd life for some of you. Indeed ... the Rorqual received some massive bonuses on mining drones, but that wasn't its scope after all! Somebody from CCP did a mistake, a huge one!
Rorqual description is:
Quote:The Rorqual was conceived and designed by Outer Ring Excavations in response to a growing need for capital industry platforms with the ability to support and sustain large-scale mining operations in uninhabited areas of space.
To that end, the Rorqual's primary strength lies in its ability to grind raw ores into particles of smaller size than possible before, while still maintaining their distinctive molecular structure. This means the vessel is able to carry vast amounts of ore in compressed form.
Additionally, the Rorqual is able to fit a capital tractor beam unit, capable of pulling in cargo containers from far greater distances and at far greater speeds than smaller beams can. It also possesses a sizeable drone bay, jump drive capability and the capacity to fit a clone vat bay. This combination of elements makes the Rorqual the ideal nexus to build deep space mining operations around.
Due to its specialization towards industrial operations, its ship maintenance bay is able to accommodate only industrial ships, mining barges and their tech 2 variants.
So ... this ship should not mine by it's own, panic module was invented for a reason ... I would love to see large mining fleets (barges) with huge boosts provided by ongrid rorquals, that is the objective of this ship! To provide assistance (panic module), mining boosts (better than current ones) and ore storage/compression ... like an Orca in hisec. CCP took a step further like they always do and provide huge mining capabilities to lone rorquals, didn't worked that way ... nullsec alliances simply mine with these capital ships and they're hundreds of them! The effect ? Big hit into economy prices and ships.
Rorquals have the new PANIC module which renders an entire mining fleet invulnerable for several minutes, enough for the alliance buddies to bridge in and sustain alliance mining operations. This ship drones didn't helped real miners, it just forced ratters to go mining cause it's simple and more profitable than killing NPC's!
CCPlease do something to encourage player interraction at any level, mining is the core of EVE - it should be treated accordingly! Miners should have a boost, a real boost ... not like this stupid thing! Encourage fleets and player-to-player interraction!
|
Trevize Demerzel
20
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 13:03:02 -
[299] - Quote
Lotus Rose wrote:Hisana wrote:I don't like this update at all.
The Rorqual and its drones should be very expensive. There should be a huge risk involved in using them. With this update you remove that risk completely. Isn't EVE supposed to be a risk vs. reward game? We just had that and you're taking it away. It's ok, they're taking away 32% of the reward too. Maybe they'll balance each other out.
How is the risk removed? Rorq's are still stuck for 5 minutes in industrial mode. Zkill has lots of Rorq's being killed every day. I see large gangs every night out killing Rorq's, they are quite effective at it. Kuddos to them for jumping on these changes and becoming very effective at Rorq hunting. Rorq's have a big fat target painted all over them. The 7 minute P.A.N.I.C. module hasn't appeared to be useful in its' intended mode. Works great for the hic rorq, but I've yet to see a [mining] Rorq pilot saved in the 7 minutes.
Anyway, I think CCP has a lot of balancing work to do with Rorq's. The 32% nerf to the drones seems extreme..... I'm annoyed by it and I think it is wrong. That said, I expected a nerf to the mining amount, but felt it should come with a balance. My thought was a 10-12% nerf with a reduction on the cycle time of the Industrial Core and reduced Heavy Water consumption to offset the reduced cycle time. It's too easy to tackle a Rorq. Even with all the intel in the world and a pilot that is paying attention to every system around. The Rorq is an easy target as can been seen by the killboards.
-
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18475
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 13:10:27 -
[300] - Quote
Trevize Demerzel wrote:
How is the risk removed? Rorq's are still stuck for 5 minutes in industrial mode. Zkill has lots of Rorq's being killed every day. I see large gangs every night out killing Rorq's, they are quite effective at it. Kuddos to them for jumping on these changes and becoming very effective at Rorq hunting. Rorq's have a big fat target painted all over them. The 7 minute P.A.N.I.C. module hasn't appeared to be useful in its' intended mode. Works great for the hic rorq, but I've yet to see a [mining] Rorq pilot saved in the 7 minutes.
You dont see it because zkill doesn't show the ones that live.
Trevize Demerzel wrote: Anyway, I think CCP has a lot of balancing work to do with Rorq's. The 32% nerf to the drones seems extreme..... I'm annoyed by it and I think it is wrong. That said, I expected a nerf to the mining amount, but felt it should come with a balance. My thought was a 10-12% nerf with a reduction on the cycle time of the Industrial Core and reduced Heavy Water consumption to offset the reduced cycle time. It's too easy to tackle a Rorq. Even with all the intel in the world and a pilot that is paying attention to every system around. The Rorq is an easy target as can been seen by the killboards.
They got the numbers backwards, this isn't a nerf its a fix to that mistake they made. |
|
barkaway
Danish Collective Brothers Of The Dark Sun
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 15:00:56 -
[301] - Quote
Trevize Demerzel wrote: Anyway, I think CCP has a lot of balancing work to do with Rorq's. The 32% nerf to the drones seems extreme..... I'm annoyed by it and I think it is wrong. That said, I expected a nerf to the mining amount, but felt it should come with a balance. My thought was a 10-12% nerf with a reduction on the cycle time of the Industrial Core and reduced Heavy Water consumption to offset the reduced cycle time. It's too easy to tackle a Rorq. Even with all the intel in the world and a pilot that is paying attention to every system around. The Rorq is an easy target as can been seen by the killboards.
They got the numbers backwards, this isn't a nerf its a fix to that mistake they made. [/quote]
Well then they should come out and say that they made a mistake, instead they give us some sad excuse.
Yes i know it takes balls to admit that you made a mistake, but at least the show that they have them, by giving us a sad excuse, they prove that they don't have them and that makes people even more pissed. |
Trevize Demerzel
20
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 15:08:42 -
[302] - Quote
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:Again guys, CCP either A, Forgot Mining Rigs existed; Or B, changed the drone interfacing skill into a double damage bonus in their heads. They now have their stated yield.
They didn't forget the Capital Mining Rigs. They specifically talked about them in the same conversation as the Excavator Drones during the Vegas conference.
-
|
Trevize Demerzel
20
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 15:15:47 -
[303] - Quote
Lotus Rose wrote:For your reading pleasure
~ An hour in the life of a mining rorqual.
Undock in an ungodly expensive space brick with drones which cost more than a carrier, each. Align and warp somewhere with rocks to mine. Eventually arrive. Realise that the closest unmined rock is 30k away, start to move in that direction. Sigh and warp back to a place you can actually dock your space brick and fit some kind of module which makes you go faster. Eventually arrive back in the busy place that rocks go to die. Find a free space rock, start the journey in the direction. Try to start slowing the brick, frantically pressing control space. Bounce off the looming space rock. Sigh and reposition. Launch the scary expensive drones. Manically check local and intel channels for the 20th time, finger hovering over the indy core. Tell yourself that it is all going to be ok. Push the button. Briefly wonder if you are bad because you clicked it. A clicker. Going to hell now. Watch the slowest drones in the universe as they bumble to the selected rock. Check intel again. Rats spawn. Look to see who is getting the business. Realise that no one is going to kill them.Pull in the slow mining buddies, sigh, kill the rats. Watch as someone loots the faction spawn. Heart races as you read about the command destroyers coming to steal the carrier priced peanut sized little miners that are finally arriving at the rock. Decycle the indy core... just in case. The threat is close, pull the drones back into the nest. Wait a while, with much checking that the coast is clear. Notice that another mining behemoth has drifted close to you and has cheekily started mining the rock you spent an age approaching with murder in your heart. Sigh and approach another rock. Decide to activate indy core as you decelerate. Realise that your mining brick is slowing, well, very slowly. Bounce off the rock and wait out the rest of the indy core timer as you drift further and further away. Watch as your little drones take a painfully long time to make it back to you to deposit their goodness as you float into the distance. Sigh, wait out the timer and reposition. Scratch head wondering why all the little barges are approaching you. Get reproached for not making your fleet hangar open so that they can use you to reprocess their ores. Hide all your things in the cargo bay. Don't want people touching your stuff. Stare at the screen blankly as the rock pops and the drones return to you, dancing about in glee. Realise that the rock had been mined almost to death and left to linger. Sigh. Warp back to that place, you know, where you can get a rock scanner. Refit. Make it back to the place where rorquals go to die. Look around, attempt to use the rock scanner and accidently press the cyno. Short lived relief that it wasn't the panic module followed by horror due to the reaction of everyone around you. Reassure everyone. Resolve to never make that mistake again. Until next time. Sigh. Wait out the timer. See some space rocks around you popping. See the cyno finally decycle and feel proud that at least it didn't go into the humiliating second cycle. Look for a rock to mine, realise that there are only mercoxit rocks left. Launch yourself at the closest one, wondering where all the other mining rorquals went. Position. Indy core. Can't mine that mercoxit with these here drones. Sigh. Wait out timer. Pick finger nails. Check intel for the 131st time. Head to a place where you can park your fat bottomed mining goddess and get into a procurer to mine the mercoxit after being berated for not cleaning mercoxit up. Well folks, that's the end of the tale now as clearly, there isn't a rorqual to discuss anymore. Thanks for bearing with me.
These may or may not be actual events related to actual miners with actual miner rage.
Funny :-)
Tho let me help ya out a bit.
First undock in something fast(er). I use a skiff with a rock scanner.
-Fly to mining belt. Scan and bookmark all the nifty rocks that you wish to mine. -Fly to station, get Rorq. warp to your bookmarks. When rock is dead, warp out and warp back to your next bookmark.
Other tip: Always align to safe before hitting the indi core. When you exit indi core mode you'll be closely aligned already to your safe. Saves a few seconds anyway....
And ya. I've informed (firmly) other miners in a belt that if they touch my rocks I turn off boosts. :-P
-
|
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
584
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 15:19:43 -
[304] - Quote
When are you going to get to re-balancing imballente online?
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
|
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
3011
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 17:55:40 -
[305] - Quote
Trevize Demerzel wrote:
Other tip: Always align to safe before hitting the indi core. When you exit indi core mode you'll be closely aligned already to your safe. Saves a few seconds anyway....
Your align time from a dead stop even if it "behind" you is the same as straight ahead so this only help if the indi core didn't manage to grind you to a dead stop. Your tip should be "make sure there are no close-by rocks between your escape point and yourself" because you might bounce on it while accelerating to warp. |
Trevize Demerzel
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 18:15:54 -
[306] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Trevize Demerzel wrote:
Other tip: Always align to safe before hitting the indi core. When you exit indi core mode you'll be closely aligned already to your safe. Saves a few seconds anyway....
Your align time from a dead stop even if it "behind" you is the same as straight ahead so this only help if the indi core didn't manage to grind you to a dead stop. Your tip should be "make sure there are no close-by rocks between your escape point and yourself" because you might bounce on it while accelerating to warp.
Yep. that's true too. Tho in anoms the distance between rocks is fairly huge.
-
|
Lotus Rose
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 19:50:55 -
[307] - Quote
Trevize Demerzel wrote:Lotus Rose wrote:For your reading pleasure
~ An hour in the life of a mining rorqual.
Undock in an ungodly expensive space brick with drones which cost more than a carrier, each. Align and warp somewhere with rocks to mine. Eventually arrive. Realise that the closest unmined rock is 30k away, start to move in that direction. Sigh and warp back to a place you can actually dock your space brick and fit some kind of module which makes you go faster. Eventually arrive back in the busy place that rocks go to die. Find a free space rock, start the journey in the direction. Try to start slowing the brick, frantically pressing control space. Bounce off the looming space rock. Sigh and reposition. Launch the scary expensive drones. Manically check local and intel channels for the 20th time, finger hovering over the indy core. Tell yourself that it is all going to be ok. Push the button. Briefly wonder if you are bad because you clicked it. A clicker. Going to hell now. Watch the slowest drones in the universe as they bumble to the selected rock. Check intel again. Rats spawn. Look to see who is getting the business. Realise that no one is going to kill them.Pull in the slow mining buddies, sigh, kill the rats. Watch as someone loots the faction spawn. Heart races as you read about the command destroyers coming to steal the carrier priced peanut sized little miners that are finally arriving at the rock. Decycle the indy core... just in case. The threat is close, pull the drones back into the nest. Wait a while, with much checking that the coast is clear. Notice that another mining behemoth has drifted close to you and has cheekily started mining the rock you spent an age approaching with murder in your heart. Sigh and approach another rock. Decide to activate indy core as you decelerate. Realise that your mining brick is slowing, well, very slowly. Bounce off the rock and wait out the rest of the indy core timer as you drift further and further away. Watch as your little drones take a painfully long time to make it back to you to deposit their goodness as you float into the distance. Sigh, wait out the timer and reposition. Scratch head wondering why all the little barges are approaching you. Get reproached for not making your fleet hangar open so that they can use you to reprocess their ores. Hide all your things in the cargo bay. Don't want people touching your stuff. Stare at the screen blankly as the rock pops and the drones return to you, dancing about in glee. Realise that the rock had been mined almost to death and left to linger. Sigh. Warp back to that place, you know, where you can get a rock scanner. Refit. Make it back to the place where rorquals go to die. Look around, attempt to use the rock scanner and accidently press the cyno. Short lived relief that it wasn't the panic module followed by horror due to the reaction of everyone around you. Reassure everyone. Resolve to never make that mistake again. Until next time. Sigh. Wait out the timer. See some space rocks around you popping. See the cyno finally decycle and feel proud that at least it didn't go into the humiliating second cycle. Look for a rock to mine, realise that there are only mercoxit rocks left. Launch yourself at the closest one, wondering where all the other mining rorquals went. Position. Indy core. Can't mine that mercoxit with these here drones. Sigh. Wait out timer. Pick finger nails. Check intel for the 131st time. Head to a place where you can park your fat bottomed mining goddess and get into a procurer to mine the mercoxit after being berated for not cleaning mercoxit up. Well folks, that's the end of the tale now as clearly, there isn't a rorqual to discuss anymore. Thanks for bearing with me.
These may or may not be actual events related to actual miners with actual miner rage. Funny :-) Tho let me help ya out a bit. First undock in something fast(er). I use a skiff with a rock scanner. -Fly to mining belt. Scan and bookmark all the nifty rocks that you wish to mine. -Fly to station, get Rorq. warp to your bookmarks. When rock is dead, warp out and warp back to your next bookmark. Other tip: Always align to safe before hitting the indi core. When you exit indi core mode you'll be closely aligned already to your safe. Saves a few seconds anyway.... And ya. I've informed (firmly) other miners in a belt that if they touch my rocks I turn off boosts. :-P
Well thanks for the constructive tips although my post was really a mash up of miner tales, some of which were very new miners, intended to lighten the mood a little. I might own the cyno derp though. |
Stragak
33
|
Posted - 2016.12.09 21:42:48 -
[308] - Quote
It does surprise me with other stuff CCP decides not to fix for YEARS, and Rorqual being in a bad spot even years prior to that and now they nerf it in like a month. Process is being made, inconsistent process with major swipes compared to prior broken ships of , 'Oh 5% nerf to this one thing and we will look back on it in 6 months'; of old.
I would consider a very large++ nerf of 25%, if they increased the speed of the darn things, but 32% nerf to yield?
"Oh look, the cat is sitting in the litter box and pooping over the side again" every time we go through these "rough patches".
In good humor, and slight annoyance,
Boiglio -á-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238130&p=82
|
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation
37
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 00:23:00 -
[309] - Quote
Stragak wrote:It does surprise me with other stuff CCP decides not to fix for YEARS, and Rorqual being in a bad spot even years prior to that and now they nerf it in like a month. Process is being made, inconsistent process with major swipes compared to prior broken ships of , 'Oh 5% nerf to this one thing and we will look back on it in 6 months'; of old.
I would consider a very large++ nerf of 25%, if they increased the speed of the darn things, but 32% nerf to yield?
Not a nerf, Its a Fix |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1574
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 00:47:53 -
[310] - Quote
Lotus Rose wrote:For your reading pleasure
~ An hour in the life of a mining rorqual.
Undock in an ungodly expensive space brick with drones which cost more than a carrier, each. - Carrier is 1.2-1.3b for the hull, 2.5-3b fit. Excavator drones costed me ~300m including bpc to produce, they're now 800 and dropping. Align and warp somewhere with rocks to mine. - Align and warp to mining anomaly ping. Eventually arrive. -Get something to eat, go to the bathroom, load up netflix Realise that the closest unmined rock is 30k away, start to move in that direction. -Warp in to your asteroid of choice, landing close to it, with no movement needed Sigh and warp back to a place you can actually dock your space brick and fit some kind of module which makes you go faster. -Drop a mobile depot, refit an afterburner/mwd as needed, scoop mobile depot. Eventually arrive back in the busy place that rocks go to die. -You're already there because you didn't randomly warp in like a noob Find a free space rock, start the journey in the direction. -Again, not an issue Try to start slowing the brick, frantically pressing control space. -Still not an issue Bounce off the looming space rock. -I see you've never flown a capital ship before Sigh and reposition. Launch the scary expensive drones. -Still no need for repositioning. Don't fly what you're scared to lose. Manically check local and intel channels for the 20th time, finger hovering over the indy core. -Align back to your warp in point, siege green VIA HOTKEY the moment you're under 3 m/s, because you're fit properly, know what you're doing, and aren't sweating bullets, because everything in eve dies, and you know it's replaceable. Tell yourself that it is all going to be ok. -Everything isn't going to be okay. You're going to mine a ridiculous amount of isk, and eventually, you're going to die. You may not, but assume you are, it's smarter, and you're smart, aren't you? Push the button. Briefly wonder if you are bad because you clicked it. A clicker. Going to hell now. -You used a hotkey because you're not bad. You know that clicking it with your mouse makes it a lot easier to actually hit the wrong module. People who click indy cores with their mouse put their panic button and smartbombs next to their indy core. But you use hotkeys, because you're not bad. Watch the slowest drones in the universe as they bumble to the selected rock. - Watch 600m/s drones zip around far faster than harvester mining drones Check intel again. - Have intel open, notice when something new pops up, ignore it otherwise Rats spawn. Look to see who is getting the business. Realise that no one is going to kill them.Pull in the slow mining buddies, sigh, kill the rats. - Watch drones, ignore rats, let mining barges in belt kill rats. Turn off boosts if they don't. Keep an eye on your drones, activate a remote shield rep as necessary Watch as someone loots the faction spawn. - Drop an MTU for that sweet faction spawn loot, scoop to cargo. Heart races as you read about the command destroyers coming to steal the carrier priced peanut sized little miners that are finally arriving at the rock. -Laugh as you find out command destroyers are coming, recall your drones, drop combat drones, cross your fingers and pray the command destroyers are stupid enough to warp to you
|
|
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1574
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 00:48:40 -
[311] - Quote
Lotus Rose wrote:Decycle the indy core... just in case. - Keep your indy core running, knowing it makes your combat drones faster, tougher, and far meaner. The threat is close, pull the drones back into the nest. -Already done, because you're cool, calm, and know a small roaming gang presents zero threat to you, because you are properly fit, and have planned well Wait a while, with much checking that the coast is clear. -Keeping finger still crossed for a fight, your rorqual needs more killmarks from fools who think navy infiltrators can't kill their bifrost before they can turn around and warp out Notice that another mining behemoth has drifted close to you and has cheekily started mining the rock you spent an age approaching with murder in your heart. -Drop corp, join a real one Sigh and approach another rock. Decide to activate indy core as you decelerate. Realise that your mining brick is slowing, well, very slowly. -Man up, stay on the rock you were on, tell the other guy to **** off. Bounce off the rock and wait out the rest of the indy core timer as you drift further and further away. -Again. USE A PING. Warp to rocks, don't slowboat Watch as your little drones take a painfully long time to make it back to you to deposit their goodness as you float into the distance. Sigh, wait out the timer and reposition. -Ah, yes, that horrible 5km travel time... Scratch head wondering why all the little barges are approaching you. Get reproached for not making your fleet hangar open so that they can use you to reprocess their ores. Hide all your things in the cargo bay. Don't want people touching your stuff. -Fleet hangar is 100% full of cap booster charges, because you're not a complete fool, sitting a rorqual in a belt without being packed to the gills full of tank refits, mobility mods, HW, and cap boosters. If mining barges want to complain, remind them that their convenience means nothing next to your safety. Stare at the screen blankly as the rock pops and the drones return to you, dancing about in glee. Realise that the rock had been mined almost to death and left to linger. -Assign drones to next rock, and carry on, knowing that you mine so fast, that this wont happen more than once every few belts Sigh. Warp back to that place, you know, where you can get a rock scanner. Refit. -Deploy mobile depot, remove drone nav comp, fit survey scanner, scan, remove survey scanner, fit drone nav comp. Make it back to the place where rorquals go to die. -Or you know, don't mine in Tenal Look around, attempt to use the rock scanner and accidently press the cyno. Short lived relief that it wasn't the panic module followed by horror due to the reaction of everyone around you. Reassure everyone. Resolve to never make that mistake again. Until next time. -See above comment about hotkeys, and not putting things like a cyno next to your indy core. Or you know, mine in a cyno jammed system. Sigh. Wait out the timer. See some space rocks around you popping. -Have yet to have this happen. Module placement... See the cyno finally decycle and feel proud that at least it didn't go into the humiliating second cycle. -Always set your cynos to not auto-repeat. Look for a rock to mine, realise that there are only mercoxit rocks left. -Cuss out the mining barges for not mining the most valuable ore. Launch yourself at the closest one, wondering where all the other mining rorquals went. -Warp to next belt because you read about the rorqual before getting in one Position. Indy core. Can't mine that mercoxit with these here drones. -Position in next belt, with mining links turned off. Exhumers dont want to mine the mercoxit? Boosts off. No -57% cycle time. No 114% mining range. no -57% mining crystal volatility. Sigh. Wait out timer. Pick finger nails. Check intel for the 131st time. -Check intel when it flashes, ignore it when it doesn't. Head to a place where you can park your fat bottomed mining goddess and get into a procurer to mine the mercoxit after being berated for not cleaning mercoxit up. -Have some balls, instead of holding your wife's hand while she's with another man. Mercoxit is there for the barges to mine. Well folks, that's the end of the tale now as clearly, there isn't a rorqual to discuss anymore. Thanks for bearing with me.
These may or may not be actual events related to actual miners with actual miner rage.
Edited for accuracy with bolded notes. |
Ace Aideron
Red Falcon Group Intrepid Crossing
9
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 04:03:52 -
[312] - Quote
CCP: We're eliminating off-grid boosts. ME: Ugh. I just spent *months* training an off-grid boost character! ME: One paid 6 month subscription down the drain. CCP: But we're adding on-grid boosts! More action! ME: Which means I can no longer use two toons at once; to boost, I need a pvp pilot with slow-to-train Leadership skills. ME: Ugh
CCP: The Rorqual won't be useful as an off-grid boost anymore CCP: We're going to make it the best mining ship in the game! ME: A slow, expensive, relatively defenseless ship on grid? Skeptical. CCP: We're going to add new mining super-drones. ME: Still skeptical CCP: And a new PANIC module that will make your ship and all nearby fleet members invulnerable for 5 to 7 minutes, while help arrives. ME: OK, now I'm interested. ME: ** Checks out yield and upgrade options in detail on the test server ** ME: ** Builds spreadsheet to compare yield vs. things like carrier ratting ** ME: ** Checks costs of drone components ** CCP: The PANIC module and drones will require new skills ME: Ugh. ** Update spreadsheet. ** CCP: Released! ME: SPENDS $200 TO BUY 12 PLEX ME: Skill extractors galore. Strip the scanning toon I can't use. Inject for Rorq + drones + PANIC + support skills EVE: Price of drone parts goes up by 5x. Drone BPCs are only available at the ORE LP Store. ME: Ugh. Drone price is much higher, but still worth it. ME: Mine minerals for Rorq. Buy BPCs and build Rorq and drones. ME: Start mining! ME: Risky in null with the core on, but workable. CCP: Plex are now on sale! ME: Ugh. Perfect timing. Not.
CCP: j/k. Drone output will be nerfed by 32%. Gotcha! ME: WTF? ME: My old boost char is now worthless, and I've cancelled that subscription. ME: Now my miner is getting nerfed to the point where Exhumers are a better choice for risk vs. yield. OTHERS: You actually trusted CCP? You're an idiot for not seeing the nerf coming. ME: Apparently so. Yes, I'm an idiot. Not a mistake I will repeat! ME: I didn't realize CCP was so skilled at manipulating their paying subscribers and stabbing them in the back. ME: Is this the real meta game?? OTHERS: CCP is just correcting a mistake, even though that's not what they said. ME: I'm supposed to believe they couldn't use the test server like I did? ME: WTF? |
Zhul Chembull
Booze and Blues inc. Soviet-Union
113
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 04:08:59 -
[313] - Quote
This is a ******** ass change. Risk vs Reward ? Just give us off grid boosting with it again and allow us to cash n the drones after spending a ton buying them. ******** changes as usual CCP. For once I think you finally understood the risk vs reward, wrong again. I just want my isk back for investing in what is now a piece of **** ship. 32 percent reduction ? What is the use of putting it on the field ? Retards. |
FeistyOne
13. Enigma Project
12
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 13:16:55 -
[314] - Quote
Literally hundreds i bet (if not more) people have invested a lot of time and/or real Cash on plex in order to take advantage of your wonderful Mining profession overhaul.
As stated before, did you really make this error on Mining yield? In which case hold your hands up and admit your errors and stop acting like children.
My honest opinion looking at this whole situation? This is a cash grab by CCP. Release patch knowing full well it is too overpowered and a big chunk of the player base will inject/resubscribe and train for the mining profession.
You then give people not even a month before taking it back. One word - Disgusting customer service.
I sincerely hope that this is a fix to an error as stated many times, but until you admit this, it stinks like my honest opinion above.
Fear not fellow players though, as you can always extract the skills again and skill for the next OP ship (to use for 21 days only, just like the svipul, right?).
You are rapidly starting to lose my trust CCP |
Doddy
Excidium.
958
|
Posted - 2016.12.10 15:18:32 -
[315] - Quote
lord xavier wrote:Messenger Of Truth wrote:Mostlyharmlesss wrote:"Hey guys, null sec is finally getting the same ISK/hour as high sec Incursion runners, we can't have that" Because a) nullsec doesn't already have incursions that pay out at a higher rate than hisec incursions and b) hisec incursions are well known for paying out 500m isk per hour like the rorquals have been Good memeing though! Well done! So, paying out 500m/hr in high security, you get concorded when you tackle one guy? Thats okay? No, the fact the rorqual is being nerfed because it yields too much isk per hour, and it is going 32% below hisec incursions is ********. Space that is Safe by a permanent mechanics should not yield more isk than low security or null sec. Given how carrier mechanics changed level 5s and ratting. Now mining got a buff, then a nerf this hard, yet incursions have not been touched to reduce their isk per hour in hisec is absurd.
I can see you are good with the sarcasm. Like hi sec incursioning getting 500mil an hour on a single acc is remotely a thing .....
You are actually doing very well to get 200mil/hr maybe a little more in hq sites. And that requires a fleet of 40 non-incompetent people and the ability to spend the lp wisely, all assuming you don't get out-competed by a rival fleet and get zero. 175 mil is more realistic. So yeah post nerf a rorqual still makes near double the best possible outcome for high sec incursions. Hi sec incursions is considerably less safe than alligned null sec carrier ratting, so maybe you should compare it with that.
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Lotus Rose
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.11 01:53:24 -
[316] - Quote
Arronicus, thank you muchly for adding some excellent advice for newbean rorqual miners to my mostly fictional humorous mining tales.
I can tell that you are quite the rock gobbler. |
Mariko Musashi Hareka
Kaishin.
12
|
Posted - 2016.12.11 03:46:20 -
[317] - Quote
OK you want to drop mining amount by 32%, then you need to do the following:
1) Reduce Industrial Core cycle time from 5 minutes to 1 minute
2) Double the speed of the excavator drones they are just to slow 200 ms is not enough
3) Dont pull this kind of s**t anymore |
Templewood Terrinsbar
AntiMacro Decimation
10
|
Posted - 2016.12.11 12:47:52 -
[318] - Quote
Boy the level of butt hurt in this thread is epic....
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18485
|
Posted - 2016.12.11 16:16:13 -
[319] - Quote
FeistyOne wrote:did you really make this error on Mining yield?
Yes.
Now its where is should have been. |
FeistyOne
13. Enigma Project
12
|
Posted - 2016.12.11 20:00:04 -
[320] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:FeistyOne wrote:did you really make this error on Mining yield? Yes. Now its where is should have been.
Then i would like them to admit it, thats all. Is this too much to ask? |
|
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation
37
|
Posted - 2016.12.12 06:31:38 -
[321] - Quote
FeistyOne wrote:baltec1 wrote:FeistyOne wrote:did you really make this error on Mining yield? Yes. Now its where is should have been. Then i would like them to admit it, thats all. Is this too much to ask? Yes |
nahui vsex
True Power Team Brisingamen
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.12 07:15:59 -
[322] - Quote
-¦-¦-â-+-å-ï -¦-¦-¦ -+-¦-ï-ç-+-+ -Ç-â-¦-+-¦-+-+-Å-é -¦ -+-+-é-+-+ -+-ü-+-Ç-¦-¦-+-Å-Ä-é. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1829
|
Posted - 2016.12.12 16:51:07 -
[323] - Quote
nahui vsex wrote:-¦-¦-â-+-å-ï -¦-¦-¦ -+-¦-ï-ç-+-+ -Ç-â-¦-+-¦-+-+-Å-é -¦ -+-+-é-+-+ -+-ü-+-Ç-¦-¦-+-Å-Ä-é.
google translate says: "dauntsy rukozhopyat as usual and then corrected" |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
16
|
Posted - 2016.12.13 06:49:16 -
[324] - Quote
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:Again guys, CCP either A, Forgot Mining Rigs existed; Or B, changed the drone interfacing skill into a double damage bonus in their heads. They now have their stated yield. nooo... they forgot that people need time to build sotiyos. there have likely been nowhere near as many soups/titans put in the over since asencion, as before. rather than giving us time to drop the indy arrays, they just took a dump and saiid, here you go. |
Thor
Insurrection Spaceship Samurai
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.13 23:43:38 -
[325] - Quote
CCP , for f***ing us over you should at least:
1) Allow the skill to reduce the Industrial Core cycle time. Say 1 minute per lvl.
2) Double or triple the speed of the excavator drones.
|
Baki Yuku
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
77
|
Posted - 2016.12.14 13:24:22 -
[326] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I don't know if it was intended or unintended side effect however due to the change in yield nullsec hidden belt asteroids will now always deplete within the first 2 minutes of the industry core cycle which means due to the limitations in drone speed we are now face with 3-4 minutes of terrible yield mining for each asteroid. Due to how Rorqual mining is done.
The normal procedure is to mine asteroids from a close as possible once the asteroid is deleted come out of industry core move re-enter industry core so far this worked out most of the time as asteroids usually deleted at 70-90% into the cycle of the industry core. Now however that is usually around 10-25% into the cycle which has a significant impact on actual yields per hour.
Before the change rorquals made roughly 450-500m/h mining +10% ore's now that is down to 250m/h. Which is a lot more than 32% the reality is a closer to a 50% income nerf.
A bit more drone speed would really go a long way to flatten that yield curve a bit.
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Bongo0
The Collective DARKNESS.
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.15 11:40:51 -
[327] - Quote
Rexxen Darkbrew wrote:CCP are you nuts .. 32% nerf?? Have you seen the KB and the amount of Rorq losses..You said you wanted to add more risk/reward to mining. Right now were are at that...It is very high/risk reward currently.
Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
Rorq cannot safely mine 24/7 they have to strategically pick there window and sometimes sit out of siege quite a lot waiting on intel etc.. /watching movement of adversaries before resieging.
Might as well put them back to a off grid booster I'd rather have that then a 1/3 nerf in income...Risk no longer equals the reward,..
What a sad waste of people's time and isk, that trained for the Rorqual based on your own post of the new risk/reward and yield output system...
Rorq for sale!
I Couldn't agree more.
With the amount of risk involved in activating the industrial core, it needs to be worth it. With such a large reduction, for me it no longer feels like the risk vs reward is balanced. To introduce such a significant reduction after lots of people have spent considerable isk on the ships, fitting, drones, skills and injectors to try your new self proclaimed risk vs reward game play, feels like a slap in the face.
Prior to release you proclaimed maxed skilled and fit rorqual is the equivalent of 5 hulks. How can their mining yield come as a surprise to you? If a reduction is required do it in a measured and considered way, not in a knee jerk reaction. The killboards tell you all that is needed about Rorquals. There have never been so many deaths, content created.
I guess going back to carrier ratting to provide much need ISK maybe the answer. Anyone paying attention is unlikely to ever get caught, making similar isk now with much less ISK investment and risk, with no need to siege for 5 mins, stay aligned and hit warp at the first sniff of danger. Congratulation for making a ship the many people were excited about irrelevant, unexciting and consigned back to moth balls, or at the very least sat way off the belt applying boosts not in siege able to warp out at the first sniff of danger.
Since you like making changes, please consider reducing the siege time to 2 or 3 minutes (or introduce a skill to reduce it) to combat the negative effects on Risk vs Reward you have implemented, in what feels to be an over zealous manner.
Mining is boring as ****, it previously had low returns per hour compared to ratting, it needs to be worth doing. Please reevaluate. Thanks. o/ |
Gavro Faddon
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
|
Posted - 2016.12.15 19:15:45 -
[328] - Quote
There's no way this proposed Rorq can make it with my while to earn itself back twice before 100 hours of mining have passed. I have 0% chance of having intact for that amount of time. Off-grid boosting is the way of the dodo, and soon so will be the Rorq,
Never flying a Rorq again. I'll stay Alpha and do Wh sites in a 1.5M probe or a 5M Gas-venture. Much more fun, better profit percentage, and gives a decent amount of adrenaline vs reward. Plus I don't have to rely on sheer luck to stay alive, just sharp wits.
Oh darn: now they're gonna nerf the T1 scanning frigs and the venture too.....
|
Cade Windstalker
636
|
Posted - 2016.12.15 21:13:37 -
[329] - Quote
Bongo0 wrote:Rexxen Darkbrew wrote:CCP are you nuts .. 32% nerf?? Have you seen the KB and the amount of Rorq losses..You said you wanted to add more risk/reward to mining. Right now were are at that...It is very high/risk reward currently.
Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...
Rorq cannot safely mine 24/7 they have to strategically pick there window and sometimes sit out of siege quite a lot waiting on intel etc.. /watching movement of adversaries before resieging.
Might as well put them back to a off grid booster I'd rather have that then a 1/3 nerf in income...Risk no longer equals the reward,..
What a sad waste of people's time and isk, that trained for the Rorqual based on your own post of the new risk/reward and yield output system...
Rorq for sale!
I Couldn't agree more. With the amount of risk involved in activating the industrial core, it needs to be worth it. With such a large reduction, for me it no longer feels like the risk vs reward is balanced. To introduce such a significant reduction after lots of people have spent considerable isk on the ships, fitting, drones, skills and injectors to try your new self proclaimed risk vs reward game play, feels like a slap in the face. Prior to release you proclaimed maxed skilled and fit rorqual is the equivalent of 5 hulks. How can their mining yield come as a surprise to you? If a reduction is required do it in a measured and considered way, not in a knee jerk reaction. The killboards tell you all that is needed about Rorquals. There have never been so many deaths, content created. I guess going back to carrier ratting to provide much need ISK maybe the answer. Anyone paying attention is unlikely to ever get caught, making similar isk now with much less ISK investment and risk, with no need to siege for 5 mins, stay aligned and hit warp at the first sniff of danger. Congratulation for making a ship the many people were excited about irrelevant, unexciting and consigned back to moth balls, or at the very least sat way off the belt applying boosts not in siege able to warp out at the first sniff of danger. Since you like making changes, please consider reducing the siege time to 2 or 3 minutes (or introduce a skill to reduce it) to combat the negative effects on Risk vs Reward you have implemented, in what feels to be an over zealous manner. Mining is boring as ****, it previously had low returns per hour compared to ratting, it needs to be worth doing. Please reevaluate. Thanks. o/
I think the trick here is CCP can see the number of Rorquals that haven't been touched... and all of the ore they're mining. |
Hans Bauer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.15 21:50:53 -
[330] - Quote
The nerf is closer to 45% Before it with my skills I could mine 300 mil isk per hour worth of ore after the patch it dropped to about 150-160 mil per hour ! The only players that hurts is the people who don't own more than 1-2 accounts and the big miners are still making a killing. CCP never showed us any stats before they correct the values so people would have nothing to compare it to ! |
|
Thayla Caldari
Resilience. DARKNESS.
12
|
Posted - 2016.12.15 22:59:51 -
[331] - Quote
Bongo0 wrote: Since you like making changes, please consider reducing the siege time to 2 or 3 minutes (or introduce a skill to reduce it) to combat the negative effects on Risk vs Reward you have implemented, in what feels to be an over zealous manner.
Mining is boring as ****, it previously had low returns per hour compared to ratting, it needs to be worth doing. Please reevaluate. Thanks. o/
Yes, I think the siege time is the risk and in this case risk vs reward really is the factor.
Let's say for math's sake you put 10 Rorquals on the board. Day of launch that was 100b isk on the field, for what is now 1.5b per hour. That's 2x better than a 10 man Hulk fleet (pre patch) which costs 3b if you went with bling.
The Rorquals also suffer from quick depletion of roids and having to warp/move around (which requires the siege cycle to finish). Alternatively they can wait for the slow drones. |
Sgt Zora
Building Inspectors
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.17 12:43:53 -
[332] - Quote
This change won't fix the bad design decisions that were made for the Rorqual in the first place.
The Rorqual has become binary when it comes to risk. If you are in one of the big powerblocs the risk is zero. You hang out in a cyno jammed system with your super buddies. Coincidently that is what the powerblocs rationally set up as an isk farm which is now flooding the market and what gave you your 32% "oh ****" nerf moment.
For everybody else the risk essentially became infinite. The defense capability is meaningless if you can't counter escalate. This is why you won't see a single deployed Rorqual in Providence or anywhere else really, because loosing it is inevitable and with that siege mechanic it doesn't even come down to decision making.
The 32% nerf won't fix the issue. The Rorqual has become an AFK money making machine for indy people in power blocs. And you can't compare it to carriers, because involvement is minimal and it scales basically infinite. Personally i expect the mineral market to plummet massively even further.
The cries here are basically about the fact that it takes 32% longer to get AFK rich. Risk is meaningless if you are in one of those systems. Investment is meaningless because that is a one time cost.
|
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
326
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 00:26:40 -
[333] - Quote
the amount of people moaning about my income has gone from 500 to 250m... you do realise that since rorquals were introduced, mineral value has also droped by 40%. so take that 500m and knock the 40% off before you try comparing it...
so now your comparing 375m with 250m.
and i really wouldnt keep complaining. Rorquals are STILL yielding higher than what ccp origionaly planned for them. just use them properly.
and if your poping anomoly roids in 2 mins, you may wanna try spreading your rorqs to hit diffrent roids... |
Hans Bauer
deep core mining inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 13:24:05 -
[334] - Quote
And the price of the excavator drones Is back at what it was before the nerf :( |
Alyx Shepard
Risen from Ashes inPanic
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 17:52:16 -
[335] - Quote
The only thing i would realy complain about is the fact that even tho CCP said they will increase the Drop rate of the Elite Drone ai chips, nothing realy changed. Its like putting 4 more Sand corns into an Hourglas. This increase was close to meaningless, the drop in Price for the Chips was only due to Market games. So they are still as expensive as **** which make the whole rorq mining thing useless for almost everyone in null sec except those in the powerblocs mentioned from the dudes before me.
So YEAH, CCP, plz do at least INCREASE the drop rate of those ******* CHIPS the same you lowerd the yield, to keep it easy for you with numbers, stay with the 32% ;-) |
Cade Windstalker
638
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 17:10:08 -
[336] - Quote
Alyx Shepard wrote:The only thing i would realy complain about is the fact that even tho CCP said they will increase the Drop rate of the Elite Drone ai chips, nothing realy changed. Its like putting 4 more Sand corns into an Hourglas. This increase was close to meaningless, the drop in Price for the Chips was only due to Market games. So they are still as expensive as **** which make the whole rorq mining thing useless for almost everyone in null sec except those in the powerblocs mentioned from the dudes before me.
So YEAH, CCP, plz do at least INCREASE the drop rate of those ******* CHIPS the same you lowerd the yield, to keep it easy for you with numbers, stay with the 32% ;-)
Even if they increased the drop rate by 100% you wouldn't see an immediate drop in price of the drones because it will take a while for that increase in supply to translate into a drop in price of the chips and thus the drones. |
Alyx Shepard
Risen from Ashes inPanic
1
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 17:27:29 -
[337] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Alyx Shepard wrote:The only thing i would realy complain about is the fact that even tho CCP said they will increase the Drop rate of the Elite Drone ai chips, nothing realy changed. Its like putting 4 more Sand corns into an Hourglas. This increase was close to meaningless, the drop in Price for the Chips was only due to Market games. So they are still as expensive as **** which make the whole rorq mining thing useless for almost everyone in null sec except those in the powerblocs mentioned from the dudes before me.
So YEAH, CCP, plz do at least INCREASE the drop rate of those ******* CHIPS the same you lowerd the yield, to keep it easy for you with numbers, stay with the 32% ;-) Even if they increased the drop rate by 100% you wouldn't see an immediate drop in price of the drones because it will take a while for that increase in supply to translate into a drop in price of the chips and thus the drones.
Yeah, maybe. I didnt wanted a immeditate drop of the price, i wanted a real increase of the drop rate of those chips. But only getting 3 more out of a 10/10 DED is only a mere joke. NOT a real increase of the droprate..... |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition
3138
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 22:24:12 -
[338] - Quote
I'll voice my opinion on the drones again, the build requirements are way too heavily dependent on the AI chips. Even before the market games began (well before they were released) the price was 3/4 - 2/3 dependent on the AI chips. You could double or triple the requirement of the other materials and it would barely be noticeable in comparison.
I really don't think a full set of 5 should more or as much as the rorqual hull. It'd be a different story if these drones followed the same pattern as T1/T2/Faction/augmented prices and effectiveness. But right now it's wholly dependent on the one drone. |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
16
|
Posted - 2016.12.21 19:09:14 -
[339] - Quote
Sgt Zora wrote:This change won't fix the bad design decisions that were made for the Rorqual in the first place.
The Rorqual has become binary when it comes to risk. If you are in one of the big powerblocs the risk is zero. You hang out in a cyno jammed system with your super buddies. Coincidently that is what the powerblocs rationally set up as an isk farm which is now flooding the market and what gave you your 32% "oh ****" nerf moment.
For everybody else the risk essentially became infinite. The defense capability is meaningless if you can't counter escalate. This is why you won't see a single deployed Rorqual in Providence or anywhere else really, because loosing it is inevitable and with that siege mechanic it doesn't even come down to decision making.
The 32% nerf won't fix the issue. The Rorqual has become an AFK money making machine for indy people in power blocs. And you can't compare it to carriers, because involvement is minimal and it scales basically infinite. Personally i expect the mineral market to plummet massively even further.
The cries here are basically about the fact that it takes 32% longer to get AFK rich. Risk is meaningless if you are in one of those systems. Investment is meaningless because that is a one time cost.
not at all. you need to deal with rats, or else they kill your drones. also, i'm sure there are people with rorqs in provi. it's not an isk printer. thae isk printers are the ratters. the isk from minerals comes from other rplayers. |
Cptcarter
Industrial Player Killers Army of New Eden
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.27 01:19:33 -
[340] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:the amount of people moaning about my income has gone from 500 to 250m... you do realise that since rorquals were introduced, mineral value has also droped by 40%. so take that 500m and knock the 40% off before you try comparing it...
so now your comparing 375m with 250m.
and i really wouldnt keep complaining. Rorquals are STILL yielding higher than what ccp origionaly planned for them. just use them properly.
and if your poping anomoly roids in 2 mins, you may wanna try spreading your rorqs to hit diffrent roids...
LOL WTF are you talking about...40% drop in mineral value..are you complete void of thought or just want to talk **** and troll. If prices of minerals droped 40% then everyone in eve but you are complete morons.... |
|
Cade Windstalker
670
|
Posted - 2016.12.27 22:16:25 -
[341] - Quote
Alyx Shepard wrote:Yeah, maybe. I didnt wanted a immeditate drop of the price, i wanted a real increase of the drop rate of those chips. But only getting 3 more out of a 10/10 DED is only a mere joke. NOT a real increase of the droprate.....
First off, one site isn't a statistically significant sample size unless the drops are fixed (which, by my understanding, they're not) and second you may be underestimating the effect that an increase in drops per site can have spread over the entire game.
Also it would be helpful, for context, if you included what you feel the base rate was, because "three more" doesn't really add much here. I could tell you that the widget factory made three more flooms last year, and give you just as much information about the supply of AI chips as you've given me here... |
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
366
|
Posted - 2016.12.27 22:59:24 -
[342] - Quote
if CCP wanted to make the excavator drones cheaper, they would've just halved the ingredient cost. Which would've solved the actual problem instead of trying some half handed (CCPs favourite way of dealing with things, except heavy missiles) possibly maybe solution.
The only decent thing at this point is decreasing the time the core is cycles to 1 minute, like bastion.
Baddest poster ever
|
SilKKZ the3rd
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.28 16:38:28 -
[343] - Quote
This was an epic fail , they nerfed them , but the price has actually INCREASED now to 1.45b a pop.
they have no idea what there doing. |
Nivek Steyer
CPE1704TKS SWARTA.
35
|
Posted - 2016.12.29 22:38:33 -
[344] - Quote
CCP Fozie, Can you please make this right. It's not right that miners and industrialists are being penalized at every corner! You may think that is not the case, but it has been this way for many years. Why does CCP fear BS and T1 ships becoming more affordable? Think of the Alpha clones, cheaper ships for all and more fun that leads to more profit in the end for you! There is no reason for BS to cost almost 3x more than when we started this game! Everyone posting is correct risk vs reward. Just like your super carriers that are immune to except to certain scrams. I wonder why you all did that? You know why risk vs reward! 1.4b or so a drone come on! How about fixing that one? No, lets just nerf mining yields really? Been playing since the beginning of this game. Never seen this knee-jerk reaction in less than a month. Wow amazing is all I can say. If carriers can stay mobile and do max damage, then a rorqual should be able to do the same or only be locked down for like a minute. I agree with everyone. If you say pvp well just like going after a carrier buy you get a minute. Please fix what you knee jerked up!
|
Cade Windstalker
682
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 13:52:10 -
[345] - Quote
Nivek Steyer wrote:CCP Fozie, Can you please make this right. It's not right that miners and industrialists are being penalized at every corner! You may think that is not the case, but it has been this way for many years. Why does CCP fear BS and T1 ships becoming more affordable? Think of the Alpha clones, cheaper ships for all and more fun that leads to more profit in the end for you! There is no reason for BS to cost almost 3x more than when we started this game! Everyone posting is correct risk vs reward. Just like your super carriers that are immune to except to certain scrams. I wonder why you all did that? You know why risk vs reward! 1.4b or so a drone come on! How about fixing that one? No, lets just nerf mining yields really? Been playing since the beginning of this game. Never seen this knee-jerk reaction in less than a month. Wow amazing is all I can say. If carriers can stay mobile and do max damage, then a rorqual should be able to do the same or only be locked down for like a minute. I agree with everyone. If you say pvp well just like going after a carrier buy you get a minute. Please fix what you knee jerked up!
Okay, first off, this isn't penalizing anything. This is still a big buff over how things were before the Rorqual and other mining booster ships were tweaked.
Second, a little economics 101.
If the mineral balance in the game goes out of whack the result won't be just cheaper T1 ships, the result will be a mineral price crash and no one will be able to make very much money mining unless something changes with supply in the game. This is because if the mineral input massively outweighs the minerals being destroyed in combat then people will be forced to sell their minerals for less, but since other prices won't go down to match except those directly tied to mineral prices the buying power of industrialists is going to drop drastically.
As to the risk and reward for a Rorqual, the Rorqual is not a combat ship and should not be compared to a Carrier. If you want more combat prowess in your mining fleet you are free to bring a Carrier to it but I doubt it'll mine much. The primary reward of its siege mode is the mining yield not the damage and tank boost. If you don't think it's worthwhile then don't use it, it's still a perfectly good support and boosting ship without siege. |
Mr Bowers
Coalition Alliance Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.01 06:00:48 -
[346] - Quote
Rorqual needs a change in not being stuck. That feature should be removed from the game. Just like a titan can DoomsDay be stuck for 30 secs but after it can't jump, dock or tenor or cloak. It's time we use the same feature on the industrial core I and II.
When you first turn it on you should be stuck for 30 secs in the belt before your able to align out. After that you will lose time it takes the drones to go from and to the belts. |
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
226
|
Posted - 2017.01.10 03:51:28 -
[347] - Quote
Unless I am doing it wrong, I don't see how the Rorqual is the ultimate mining solo boat with the excavators ... Other than that, It is a beast when boosting other miners. I would be happy if each drone is comparable as the hulk, if not little better. Yet it is not, especially with the mining cycle between the drones and the hulk in the long run. |
Exelious
Ciggy Butt Brains. ChaosTheory.
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.12 11:34:52 -
[348] - Quote
Hi CCP,
All you have managed to do with this change is break the market for these drones even more and made the Russians in drone regions even more wealthy, and thus allowed the market to be manipulated to unreasonable pricing for something that was originally estimated at costing 300M per drone.
That moment you buy a fully fit Rorqual and the Mining drones alone cost 2 x the cost of the fully Faction / Deadspace Rorq...
Thanks for breaking market being stuck for 5 minutes for that cost is unreasonable, being stuck for 5 minutes in something that costs 4.5b is not as bad for the amount you make, but not 8.5B.
Bah.. we will see... |
Maldiro Selkurk
Conflagration Enterprises
586
|
Posted - 2017.01.13 05:02:53 -
[349] - Quote
michael chasseur wrote:hisec wins again
LOL good one.
Oh, he was serious......then it is just sad that your extreme level of entitlement has blinded you to anything remotely resembling game balance.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
|
ugh zug
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
122
|
Posted - 2017.01.13 12:10:06 -
[350] - Quote
rather than nerf them you need to implement a standard, non bpc faction and stupid mats gated, line.
name them Large mining drone/heavy ice mining drone I and II. Large mining drone/heavy ice mining drone I should come in blue print original flavor and be in line with other standard drones for production mats/price. somewhere around a fighter each.
Hulls that depend on modules shouldn't be gated behind faction bpcs, obscure materials, and outright extortion from market controlling forces, to be viable. By doing so you are penalizing pilots who use these ships to the extreme. it's outright abuse from the developers.
Want me to shut up?
Remove content from my post,1B.
Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
|
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Madina Shouna
Conoco. Caldari Armed Forces.
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.18 01:55:59 -
[351] - Quote
God help me if I become rich enough to buy CCP entirely. You will be the first one to get fired.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
|
Graysanna
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.19 08:41:18 -
[352] - Quote
I haven't played in quite awhile. It looks like CCP hasn't changed their BS while I was away. People are mining solo in just Rory's? Wtf happened to hulks? Wtf happened to boosting a mining fleet of alts? The list of fking ******** changes CCP has forced the player base to endure is disturbing, makes me wonder if anyone I flew with even bothers playing anymore. Just how bad is it to mine as a profession in eve? |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
335
|
Posted - 2017.01.19 12:44:55 -
[353] - Quote
Exelious wrote:Hi CCP,
All you have managed to do with this change is break the market for these drones even more and made the Russians in drone regions even more wealthy, and thus allowed the market to be manipulated to unreasonable pricing for something that was originally estimated at costing 300M per drone.
That moment you buy a fully fit Rorqual and the Mining drones alone cost 2 x the cost of the fully Faction / Deadspace Rorq...
Thanks for breaking market being stuck for 5 minutes for that cost is unreasonable, being stuck for 5 minutes in something that costs 4.5b is not as bad for the amount you make, but not 8.5B.
Bah.. we will see...
The Russians live in vale, geminate and insmother these days. only Russians in drones are solar in outer passage. and if you use a wetu depot, your drones are safe anyways... |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1491
|
Posted - 2017.02.08 19:23:30 -
[354] - Quote
It sounds like CSM is talking about more rorqual changes. I wish the players could pitch in to these discussions and not just the null sec leadership of the csm.
Rumor has it some on CSM feel the rorqual should require a fleet to defend it and should have its actual offensive capability nerfed. Of course we would expect that from null sec since they are the ones with the large fleets. Hopefully CCP will understand that everytime they hear "this ship should only be flown if it has a support fleet" that is code for "this ship should only be used by large null sec blocs like the one I'm in"
In any event I hope ccp discusses this with players at large other than the csm, before they simply announce changes.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
336
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 12:03:43 -
[355] - Quote
Cearain wrote:It sounds like CSM is talking about more rorqual changes. I wish the players could pitch in to these discussions and not just the null sec leadership of the csm.
Rumor has it some on CSM feel the rorqual should require a fleet to defend it and should have its actual offensive capability nerfed. Of course we would expect that from null sec since they are the ones with the large fleets. Hopefully CCP will understand that everytime they hear "this ship should only be flown if it has a support fleet" that is code for "this ship should only be used by large null sec blocs like the one I'm in"
In any event I hope ccp discusses this with players at large other than the csm, before they simply announce changes. Personaly i think that it needs its damage bonus in siege doubled, but panic mode to turn off everything except tank mods including gang mods, entosis links, e-war and remote reps |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3781
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 15:40:34 -
[356] - Quote
Cearain wrote:It sounds like CSM is talking about more rorqual changes. I wish the players could pitch in to these discussions and not just the null sec leadership of the csm.
Rumor has it some on CSM feel the rorqual should require a fleet to defend it and should have its actual offensive capability nerfed. Of course we would expect that from null sec since they are the ones with the large fleets. Hopefully CCP will understand that everytime they hear "this ship should only be flown if it has a support fleet" that is code for "this ship should only be used by large null sec blocs like the one I'm in"
In any event I hope ccp discusses this with players at large other than the csm, before they simply announce changes.
....
but it should need a fleet to defend itself from any committed threat and only have enough to deter randoms.... the entire point of the panic button was so that it could live long enough for a fleet to show.
titans need a fleet supers need a fleet dreads need a fleet carriers need a fleet
and these are dedicated combat ships why do you thing the rorqual should not need a fleet?
BLOPS Hauler
|
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1480
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 13:25:38 -
[357] - Quote
Forum Rules of Conduct wrote:31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. # Removed a post for violating the above rule.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1493
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 15:40:22 -
[358] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Cearain wrote:It sounds like CSM is talking about more rorqual changes. I wish the players could pitch in to these discussions and not just the null sec leadership of the csm.
Rumor has it some on CSM feel the rorqual should require a fleet to defend it and should have its actual offensive capability nerfed. Of course we would expect that from null sec since they are the ones with the large fleets. Hopefully CCP will understand that everytime they hear "this ship should only be flown if it has a support fleet" that is code for "this ship should only be used by large null sec blocs like the one I'm in"
In any event I hope ccp discusses this with players at large other than the csm, before they simply announce changes. .... but it should need a fleet to defend itself from any committed threat and only have enough to deter randoms.... the entire point of the panic button was so that it could live long enough for a fleet to show. titans need a fleet supers need a fleet dreads need a fleet carriers need a fleet and these are dedicated combat ships why do you thing the rorqual should not need a fleet?
The ships you mention do not need a fleet. For example a carrier does not need a fleet. But whether a ship in fact needs a fleet is different than whether a ship should need a fleet. The point I am making remains the same. If CCP designs ships to "need a fleet" then they are basically saying only large null sec alliances can use this ship. If that is what they want to do that is fine, but I think most of their playerbase will be less than pleased.
Ncc 1709 wrote:Cearain wrote:It sounds like CSM is talking about more rorqual changes. I wish the players could pitch in to these discussions and not just the null sec leadership of the csm.
Rumor has it some on CSM feel the rorqual should require a fleet to defend it and should have its actual offensive capability nerfed. Of course we would expect that from null sec since they are the ones with the large fleets. Hopefully CCP will understand that everytime they hear "this ship should only be flown if it has a support fleet" that is code for "this ship should only be used by large null sec blocs like the one I'm in"
In any event I hope ccp discusses this with players at large other than the csm, before they simply announce changes. Personaly i think that it needs its damage bonus in siege doubled, but panic mode to turn off everything except tank mods including gang mods, entosis links, e-war and remote reps
Its certainly possible that rorquals may have an issue where they point something while in panic mode etc.
I agree with you that they should do more dps. I mean they can be tanked indefinitely by a single subcap ship.
They are not allowed in high sec so they are a capital ship intended to only go into dangerous space. The fact that their dps is so anemic is odd.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cade Windstalker
798
|
Posted - 2017.02.15 18:24:20 -
[359] - Quote
Cearain wrote:The ships you mention do not need a fleet. For example a carrier does not need a fleet. But whether a ship in fact needs a fleet is different than whether a ship should need a fleet. The point I am making remains the same. If CCP designs ships to "need a fleet" then they are basically saying only large null sec alliances can use this ship. If that is what they want to do that is fine, but I think most of their playerbase will be less than pleased.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. With the right setup a single ship can keep basically any capital ship tackled almost indefinitely unless the capital is in turn set up pretty much specifically to counter that eventuality, which makes it almost useless for anything else. A couple Battleships and 2 Logi Cruisers can tank and kill a Carrier or Dread easily given enough time.
However, "fleet" does not have to mean a massive amount of backup. A Rorqual plus one or two decent support ships can put out an absurd amount of reps and tank an attacking squad almost indefinitely as well as, if setup right, put out enough DPS to likely kill them.
Cearain wrote:Its certainly possible that rorquals may have an issue where they point something while in panic mode etc.
I agree with you that they should do more dps. I mean they can be tanked indefinitely by a single subcap ship.
They are not allowed in high sec so they are a capital ship intended to only go into dangerous space. The fact that their dps is so anemic is odd.
It's really not, it's a mining ship, it's not supposed to have the DPS of a Carrier or even a high end Battleship. As has been said, repeatedly, these ships are meant to have support at least available to call, that is the point of the panic button. They are not supposed to be a defense fleet, mining god, and impenetrable tank all in one. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1494
|
Posted - 2017.02.16 01:59:53 -
[360] - Quote
People keep baldly claiming what the Rorqis supposed to be. But that is begging the question.
We are talking about a ahip that when fit out costs about 4xs as much as a fit carrier. And yes cost is a balancing factor.
If you fit a carrier for solo ( like you would if you were not planning on calling in a fleet). Then I would take the carrier over 2 bs and 2 logi. But a rorq would have trouble with a single sub cap.
Bottom line is with that sort isk on the line the only people using it will be those who can out escalate everyone around. If that is the intended purpose I would prefer they just scrap the ship altogether.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3800
|
Posted - 2017.02.21 20:48:24 -
[361] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
Bottom line is with that sort isk on the line the only people using it will be those who can out escalate everyone around. If that is the intended purpose I would prefer they just scrap the ship altogether.
lol what? there is already a large number of people using them w/o support and they very quickly pay for themselves. unless you are an idiot the excevator drones are never at risk lowering in price of these things substantially
BLOPS Hauler
|
Oranen
WIng and Prayer
7
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 13:45:29 -
[362] - Quote
Name something CCP Fozzie has been involved with that turned out like intended or even heading in the right direction.
Waiting.
Eventually I keep hoping someone in charge says enough is enough. Stop throwing darts at a dartboard with no skill at using them.
But hey it has a cool name like PANIC and DICKS. Then the thought train stopped. |
Cade Windstalker
954
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Posted - 2017.02.27 21:21:07 -
[363] - Quote
Oranen wrote:Name something CCP Fozzie has been involved with that turned out like intended or even heading in the right direction.
Waiting.
Eventually I keep hoping someone in charge says enough is enough. Stop throwing darts at a dartboard with no skill at using them.
But hey it has a cool name like PANIC and DICKS. Then the thought train stopped.
You seem to be confusing "turned out as intended" with 'turned out the way I (you) wanted it'. If things weren't going out the folks at CCP want we'd have seen more changes to those things, barring a few thorny issues like T3s which seem to be constantly about to get changed.
Also you're kidding yourself if you think anyone at CCP makes changes without any input, both from the rest of their team and from others at CCP. Fozzie just keeps volunteering to be the public face of the changes that take the most hate. Either because he's a masochist or a really nice guy who doesn't want anyone else to have to throw themselves in front of the firing squad that is the ETRC forums. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services Singularity Syndicate
2116
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Posted - 2017.03.01 11:22:19 -
[364] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:... Also you're kidding yourself if you think anyone at CCP makes changes without any input, both from the rest of their team and from others at CCP. Fozzie just keeps volunteering to be the public face of the changes that take the most hate....
Probably more a case of:
CCP: Who's going to front this change that people will hate?
CCP Fozzie (genetic Viking masochism kicking in): Hold my beer(s), I got this...
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Mariko Musashi Hareka
Kaishin.
16
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Posted - 2017.03.15 05:03:50 -
[365] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay. We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place. We are planning two connected changes in this release: - Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
- Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components
We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance. Thanks!
So fozzie explain to me why it is that a ship that costs 3-5 times as much as a ratting carrier is now way easier to catch, can not protect itself unless it has a rock targeted (dumbest f'ing idea I ever heard of), makes way less per hour so the thing YOU and CCP deems is the core of EvE "Risk vs Reward" isnt worth a damn
I can go out now in my Nidhoggur (3.5 bil hull + fit) and make 1 bil in bounties in 3-4 hours not including loot or salvage I used to be able to do the same in my Rorqual (14 bil hull + fit + ore excavators) but now it takes me more then twice as long and this is supposed to be a good Risk vs Reward?
Seriously wtf are you people either smoking or drinking over there at ccp The excavators were already way overpriced and now even with the prices dropping its still not enough especially after this disaster.
Why did you even introduce the rorqual/excavator changes in the first place if your already pretty much undoing it?? |
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