Originally by: Tista

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Right im going to list things wrong with caldari and then list things that make caldari good.. i want you to weigh up the goods and the bads then consider which you think is right or wrong.

my list of bads:

-as a caldari pilot i have schocking issues with fitting ships effectivly.
-We have no choice in pvp as we must act in a fleet or suck.
-People tend to say that caldari is the PvE race.. where in eve does it state that caldari cant PvP other than the amazingly poor performance of our ships.
-sniper race.. in PvP, combat takes place within 20km of the target or they warp automaticly giving all other races an advantage.
-With all engineering skills 5 in a raven (our main battleship):
i have 9000 sheilds, 6500 capacitor, 6 launcher slots..
with 3 regen rigs and max skills my cap regen is a poor 550
-without multiple BCU II our dps is far below opponent ships.
-CCP has nerfed caldari multiple times recently without any boosts putting us behind other races.


Good points in caldari:
-We can PvE well and passive tank.
-we get choice in damage types
-we fire missiles that do the same damage at all ranges (not sure if that is good or bad to be honest)

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Originally by: Frug

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Wow you are gonna get so flamed for this. I hope you have your flame suit on.

As a caldari pilot, I think you're way off. But that's just me.

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Frug

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Wow you are gonna get so flamed for this. I hope you have your flame suit on.

As a caldari pilot, I think you're way off. But that's just me.

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i have piloted every ship in eve other than titan/mothership and caldari is the poorest in every way.

i also missed the point that pvp relise on speed and agility alot.. caldari is slower than amarr.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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will explain when i have the time i promise

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Originally by: Marquis Dean

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Frug

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Wow you are gonna get so flamed for this. I hope you have your flame suit on.

As a caldari pilot, I think you're way off. But that's just me.

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i have piloted every ship in eve other than titan/mothership and caldari is the poorest in every way.

i also missed the point that pvp relise on speed and agility alot.. caldari is slower than amarr.

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Because i'd much rather take on Angel Extravaganza level 4 in a Zealot...

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Originally by: Tista

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reduce the caldaris ability to passive tank and give us the ability to pvp please.

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Originally by: Tista

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Right im going to list things wrong with caldari and then list things that make caldari good.. i want you to weigh up the goods and the bads then consider which you think is right or wrong.

my list of bads:

-as a caldari pilot i have schocking issues with fitting ships effectivly.
Try Harder...

-We have no choice in pvp as we must act in a fleet or suck.
Nighthawk... How's that for not sucking solo

-People tend to say that caldari is the PvE race.. where in eve does it state that caldari cant PvP other than the amazingly poor performance of our ships.
Caldari do excel at PvE (lvl 4 Mission + Shield Tanked Raven FTW)

-sniper race.. in PvP, combat takes place within 20km of the target or they warp automaticly giving all other races an advantage.
Missles work real good up close too...

-With all engineering skills 5 in a raven (our main battleship):
i have 9000 sheilds, 6500 capacitor, 6 launcher slots..
with 3 regen rigs and max skills my cap regen is a poor 550
How much cap regen do you need when your weapons don't use cap???

-without multiple BCU II our dps is far below opponent ships.
Multiple T2 Cruise\Siege launchers = plenty 'o' dmg

-CCP has nerfed caldari multiple times recently without any boosts putting us behind other races.
Have you ever even flown an Amarr or Minmatard ship? They were so far behind to begin with that we're still ahead.


Good points in caldari:
-We can PvE well and passive tank.
-we get choice in damage types
-we fire missiles that do the same damage at all ranges (not sure if that is good or bad to be honest)

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Originally by: undrground

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Caldari can pvp,
last i checked they can shoot, and have the ability to fit warp scramblers.

every race has a edge fitting mods

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Originally by: Tista

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that is a mission dude.. not everyone wants to do missions atleast other races can pvp and pve with caldari we cant pvp for sh*t and we can pve like gods.

in no way does ccp state when you start playing this game that caldari is sh*t if you want to do anything other than pop npcs by yourself.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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will explain when i have the time i promise

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Originally by: Tista

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one more thing, if you wish to post on this thread and even be considered as having a valid argument atleast have one to start with.. just saying "thats bullsh*t" is not a valid point.

please consider what i have said before you post too.

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Originally by: Tista

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one more thing, if you wish to post on this thread and even be considered as having a valid argument atleast have one to start with.. just saying "thats bullsh*t" is not a valid point.

please consider what i have said before you post too.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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will explain when i have the time i promise

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Originally by: Marquis Dean

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Originally by: Tista

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that is a mission dude.. not everyone wants to do missions atleast other races can pvp and pve with caldari we cant pvp for sh*t and we can pve like gods.

in no way does ccp state when you start playing this game that caldari is sh*t if you want to do anything other than pop npcs by yourself.

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But tens of thousands of players on Eve PvE at the same time... It's a massive part of the game, and it's hardly fair to smack PvE Caldari with the nerfbat just to bring it inline with the other races in PvP.

Besides, Caldari don't suck in PvP, here's 20 reasons why:

Harpy: Blasters & mwd, anti-frig/pod sniper.
Hawk: Podkiller, anti-interceptor.
Crow: nuff said.
Raptor: fast and very cheap.
Buzzard: best CovOps.
Manticore: best S. Bomber.

Cormorant: 100km sniping on a 1 mil ship?
Flycatcher: 2nd best dictor.

Blackbird: cheap & effective gang ECM.
Eagle: rails for fleet, blasters for small gang.
Rook: amazing jamming.
Falcon: amazing tactical jamming.

Drake: excellent gang firesupport, best T1 passive tank in the game.
Nighthawk: again, firesupport and passive tank.
Vulture: powerful sniping, excellent tank and gang mods.

Scorpion: powerful and useful ship for fleets and gangs.
Raven: like a massive Drake.
Rokh: ultimate ship-of-the-line.

Missiles don't miss.
Passive shield tanks.

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Originally by: Tista

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well i want to try using dampers on my ships but that means i cant tank or do high dps..

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Originally by: Marquis Dean

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Originally by: Tista

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one more thing, if you wish to post on this thread and even be considered as having a valid argument atleast have one to start with.. just saying "thats bullsh*t" is not a valid point.

please consider what i have said before you post too.

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Just because people can prove you wrong, doesn't mean you can go forum fascist on them and tell them what to post.

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Tista

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well i want to try using dampers on my ships but that means i cant tank or do high dps..

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Why need to tank when he can't even target you....

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Marquis Dean

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Excellent Post

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all those things you said they tank or attack well.. but dude the hp boost + the fact caldai cant tackle and tank at once means we cant alpha strike things or stay in combat long enough to fight because we dont have the cap to keep going and we dont have the speed to escape.. we dont have the damage to outdo our foes we dont have the tank to survive.

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Marquis Dean

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Excellent Post

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all those things you said they tank or attack well.. but dude the hp boost + the fact caldai cant tackle and tank at once means we cant alpha strike things or stay in combat long enough to fight because we dont have the cap to keep going and we dont have the speed to escape.. we dont have the damage to outdo our foes we dont have the tank to survive.

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Can't Alpha strike? Neither can Minmatar anymore! Try fitting a T2 arty temp and trying to instapop stuff you could before the HP boost. As for staying in a fight long enough, pfft, everybody has that problem. Win lose.

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Marquis Dean

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Excellent Post

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all those things you said they tank or attack well.. but dude the hp boost + the fact caldai cant tackle and tank at once means we cant alpha strike things or stay in combat long enough to fight because we dont have the cap to keep going and we dont have the speed to escape.. we dont have the damage to outdo our foes we dont have the tank to survive.

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Can't Alpha strike? Neither can Minmatar anymore! Try fitting a T2 arty temp and trying to instapop stuff you could before the HP boost. As for staying in a fight long enough, pfft, everybody has that problem. Win lose.

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minmatar has speed and tackling ability, compared to caldaris... umm what do we have again?

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: Marquis Dean

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Excellent Post

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all those things you said they tank or attack well.. but dude the hp boost + the fact caldai cant tackle and tank at once means we cant alpha strike things or stay in combat long enough to fight because we dont have the cap to keep going and we dont have the speed to escape.. we dont have the damage to outdo our foes we dont have the tank to survive.

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Can't Alpha strike? Neither can Minmatar anymore! Try fitting a T2 arty temp and trying to instapop stuff you could before the HP boost. As for staying in a fight long enough, pfft, everybody has that problem. Win lose.

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minmatar has speed and tackling ability, compared to caldaris... umm what do we have again?

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Better passive tanks? Oh wait, Minmatarr don't have any.

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Originally by: Tista

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Ok basicly for each good thing caldari gets we also get a nerf.. so basicly we have the choice of damage but the amount of damage we do is poor.
we have long range ships but we cant tackle so we cant really pvp too well
we can pve like no-ones buisness but we cant pvp

there are more things but basicly for every good thing we get they have to "balance" it by nerfing something else.

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Tista

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Ok basicly for each good thing caldari gets we also get a nerf.. so basicly we have the choice of damage but the amount of damage we do is poor.
we have long range ships but we cant tackle so we cant really pvp too well
we can pve like no-ones buisness but we cant pvp

there are more things but basicly for every good thing we get they have to "balance" it by nerfing something else.

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So now caldari are balanced. Why do caldari need a boost then?

Hmmm Pwned.

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Originally by: Soporo

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Well, her gripe appears to be not being able to SOLO well and hold a tank while web+disrupt not even considering mwd or ab.

I have had this problem since day 1, so was forced to either:
try some idiotic sh*t, or
train another race for solo pvp.(not, I am Caldari and will fly Caldari boats for now)

I know a dude who armor tanks his Raven, another who claims he has a "ECM tank" Scorp, etc.
Lol, same dude said he has a "damage" tank Caracal.

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Originally by: Suboran

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are you purposely trying to find something wrong with caldari ships and then complain about it? caldari ships are exelent for pvp, but like each race have there niche.

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Originally by: Bohoba

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Originally by: Suboran

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are you purposely trying to find something wrong with caldari ships and then complain about it? caldari ships are exelent for pvp, but like each race have there niche.

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as a Cald I have to disagree cald in a 1 vs 1 PVP same ship class will lose hands down.
last 6 to 8 patches have cald nerfed well this last one didn't
ew is a joke now
all we can do is hope for a few gangs so we have a chance

and 44 mill sp here so another 3 years to train a diff race is not an option
just hope ccp sees error in there way and nerf the other races for the next 6 to 8 patches

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Originally by: Reverend Revelator

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Best mining cruiser: Granted

Best mining battleship Dominix

Best 0.0 ratting battleship Granted

Best mission battleship Granted

Best sniper battleship FAIL, this must be a joke

Missiles don't track Learn the game. Esp. explosion radius vs. damage (get a clue)

Missiles can do all 4 dmg types As can projectile guns, and combined drone/hybridships, what's your point?


Yeah, you can feel the hate alright. :)

Idiot

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Originally by: Tista

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-as a caldari pilot i have schocking issues with fitting ships effectivly.

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Originally by: Benglada

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And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?

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Originally by: Tista

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Right im going to list things wrong with caldari and then list things that make caldari good.. i want you to weigh up the goods and the bads then consider which you think is right or wrong.

my list of bads:

-as a caldari pilot i have schocking issues with fitting ships effectivly.
-We have no choice in pvp as we must act in a fleet or suck.
-People tend to say that caldari is the PvE race.. where in eve does it state that caldari cant PvP other than the amazingly poor performance of our ships.
-sniper race.. in PvP, combat takes place within 20km of the target or they warp automaticly giving all other races an advantage.
-With all engineering skills 5 in a raven (our main battleship):
i have 9000 sheilds, 6500 capacitor, 6 launcher slots..
with 3 regen rigs and max skills my cap regen is a poor 550
-without multiple BCU II our dps is far below opponent ships.
-CCP has nerfed caldari multiple times recently without any boosts putting us behind other races.


Good points in caldari:
-We can PvE well and passive tank.
-we get choice in damage types
-we fire missiles that do the same damage at all ranges (not sure if that is good or bad to be honest)

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Originally by: Tobias Sjodin

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Originally by: Reverend Revelator

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Best mining battleship Dominix Fail. Dominix had its mining drone bonus removed.

Best sniper battleship FAIL, this must be a joke Rokh is the best sniper as it has by far the longest range. I'm Amarr specced and I use a Rokh for fleet combat.

Missiles don't track Learn the game. Esp. explosion radius vs. damage (get a clue) Learn the game. Signature radius vs. damage (get a clue)

Missiles can do all 4 dmg types As can projectile guns, and combined drone/hybridships, what's your point? Projectile guns cannot do this at all ranges like Caldari can, and droneships will be limited by their drone bay size. And what about Amarr?


Yeah, you can feel the hate alright. :)

Idiot

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The last one you should save for yourself.

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Originally by: Christina Vallentine

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Originally by: Tista

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Right im going to list things wrong with caldari and then list things that make caldari good.. i want you to weigh up the goods and the bads then consider which you think is right or wrong.

my list of bads:

-as a caldari pilot i have schocking issues with fitting ships effectivly.
-We have no choice in pvp as we must act in a fleet or suck.
-People tend to say that caldari is the PvE race.. where in eve does it state that caldari cant PvP other than the amazingly poor performance of our ships.
-sniper race.. in PvP, combat takes place within 20km of the target or they warp automaticly giving all other races an advantage.
-With all engineering skills 5 in a raven (our main battleship):
i have 9000 sheilds, 6500 capacitor, 6 launcher slots..
with 3 regen rigs and max skills my cap regen is a poor 550
-without multiple BCU II our dps is far below opponent ships.
-CCP has nerfed caldari multiple times recently without any boosts putting us behind other races.


Good points in caldari:
-We can PvE well and passive tank.
-we get choice in damage types
-we fire missiles that do the same damage at all ranges (not sure if that is good or bad to be honest)

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Fly an Abaddon, then come back to this thread and tell us how you really feel. Odds 10 to 1 your like, hot damn its good to be caldari. keke

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Originally by: Consultant

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Originally by: Tobias Sjodin

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Originally by: Reverend Revelator

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Best mining battleship Dominix Fail. Dominix had its mining drone bonus removed.

Best sniper battleship FAIL, this must be a joke Rokh is the best sniper as it has by far the longest range. I'm Amarr specced and I use a Rokh for fleet combat.

Missiles don't track Learn the game. Esp. explosion radius vs. damage (get a clue) Learn the game. Signature radius vs. damage (get a clue)

Missiles can do all 4 dmg types As can projectile guns, and combined drone/hybridships, what's your point? Projectile guns cannot do this at all ranges like Caldari can, and droneships will be limited by their drone bay size. And what about Amarr?


Yeah, you can feel the hate alright. :)

Idiot

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The last one you should save for yourself.

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No, he was quite right. Anyone who thinks that there is something seriously wrong with Caldari needs their head checked.

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Originally by: Tista

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anyway by arguing my point people will turn this into petty personal insults because i will prove my point one way or another so im going to stop posting.

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Originally by: The Slayer

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Originally by: Tista

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anyway by arguing my point people will turn this into petty personal insults because i will prove my point one way or another so im going to stop posting.

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What you are saying is people are proving you wrong so you are bowing out :D

Ok : here goes. There is not one race in eve that is awesome at doing everything. No, there isnt. No, there REALLY isnt. Now caldari are, as you say, sucky at tackling and get lumbered with missiles, which can be a blessing and a curse all at once. But they are the experts in the game at Ewar (Scorpion or Rook can be deadly in small gang engagements, and multiples thereof can eliminate the shooting power of whole fleets), one of the best sniper boats around (range bonus on the Rokh anyone?), and like everyone else has said is the weapon of choice for mission running.

Eve is not a cookie cutter game, you shouldnt be able to take on BS against any other BS and have a stalemate. Sure a BlasterMega will beat a Raven. A BlasterMega will beat damn near anything 1vs1 tho, so its not a very fair comparison. Lets say Raven Vs Tempest. Well fit Raven could win that fight, or chase off the Tempest at the very least. Like you say you dont have much room for tackling, thats the downside of a shield tank. Upside is the INSANE amount of damage you can passive tank if setup correctly (fully T2 fit drake can passive tank more than a T2 Astarte can active tank).

Now missiles. Sure they take a long time to get to the target, which makes them sucky for fleet combat. So fly a Rokh. "Aww but then i'll have to train 2 weapon types". Gallente have to train THREE if you wanna fly all their ships effectively (Ok so railguns is just one, but still need Blaster/Rail spec and drones). Minmatar use dual weapon loadouts on the Phoon, so they need to train 2 as well to be decent. Amarr only need to train 1 type of weapon, but lets face it, they suck :P

All in all I see many holes in your arguments, and if you decide to be man enough to come back to the thread and continue the discussion, tell my why im wrong.

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Originally by: Consultant

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Dominix had its mining drone bonus removed.

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Quote:

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Missiles don't track Learn the game. Esp. explosion radius vs. damage (get a clue) Learn the game. Signature radius vs. damage (get a clue)

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Quote:

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Projectile guns cannot do this at all ranges like Caldari can

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Quote:

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droneships will be limited by their drone bay size.

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Quote:

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And what about Amarr?

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Originally by: Reverend Revelator

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Best mining cruiser

Best mining battleship

Best 0.0 ratting battleship

Best mission battleship

Best sniper battleship

Missiles don't track

Missiles can do all 4 dmg types


Yeah, you can feel the hate alright. :)

Idiot

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Originally by: Mogrin

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I will say that the 50% range bonus is ass.
See sig.

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Originally by: Reverend Revelator

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Best mining cruiser

Best mining battleship

Best 0.0 ratting battleship

Best mission battleship

Best sniper battleship

Missiles don't track

Missiles can do all 4 dmg types


Yeah, you can feel the hate alright. :)

Idiot

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Originally by: Nim9i5

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Lets see her Domi has 6 nos, and 5 heavy t2 drones. THE t2 drones already does more damage than torps.... LOL. I mean how clueless do you have to be to talk about tracking. Learn2play... Raven will never out dps any of the other races, even on a day with bad tracking. So lets see here 5 drones that can match, or even do worse than super cheap t2 drones. Then the Domi for example has 6 more high slots. Its just rediclous how people can say Caldari is good for pvp. Again it is rediculous that people can say Raven is good for pve. Im srry i dont do missions, so boring. But the raven is easily out dps by the domi, a t1 ship. Dont even have to include the mega, hyperion or tempest, etc. So really it is just a myth that the raven is the best ratting ship. Best dps=best ratting ship. So lets see raven sucks for money and sucks for pvp. Used to be good for pvp with the torps and ew, but useless now hehe. And if someone wants to train a rokh, they might as well train every skill in eve. If a caladari player wanted to train a rokh, he would train the tempest or megathron. Domi is still the best ship. Whats the point in torps anyways when they do as much damage as drones.. but they a huge exp radius.

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Originally by: Tista

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Originally by: undrground

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Caldari can pvp,
last i checked they can shoot, and have the ability to fit warp scramblers.

every race has a edge fitting mods

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okay simple situation here for you:

megathron vs raven

megathron uses 7 slots to tank
raven uses 6 slots to tank
megathron uses 2 mids to tackle
raven uses.. 1 mid to tackle
raven now uses 5 slots to tank compared to megathrons 7
raven's cap can't hold against megathrons cap
raven uses a cap booster
raven now has 4 med slots to tank.

now the megathron has a mwd on it aswell so i can scram it and missile it but it can mwd out of range and warp.

also the megathron has a better tank, the ability to tackle, more dps and more drone bay.

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Originally by: lordharold

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Please keep this topic on subject and cut down on the flames/trolling or this thread gets locked.

- Lord Harold.

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Originally by: CCP Sharkbait

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will explain when i have the time i promise

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Originally by: Steel Tigeress

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Edited by: Steel Tigeress on 08/04/2007 03:46:34
Ok since you didnt like everyone else's arguments...how bout this.

Calari ships will get a PvP Boost when I can train T2 Large Rails in the same time it takes Caldari to train T2 Cruise's....

Sounds fair to me.

Edit/ Right now it would take me 33D to train Cruise II's.....and 71D to train Large Rail II's. And thats with almost a mil already in Gunnery

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Originally by: blanked

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Edited by: blanked on 08/04/2007 19:58:25
To be honest, I feel that the op is at a the "omg missiles such against turrets" stage, which is actually fictious.

Caldari is not underpowered.

At face value you could argue, like you have, that "omg we suck". Perhaps this is due to the flashy videos of ships mwd into fights and "pwning" with their turrets. The fights you speak of, getting involved at 20km, is something that appeals to the majority of people; i guess there's more honour/glory/whateverego about getting into someone's face.

Caldari, in general, don't do close range. (though, with a bit of intelligence we can really well)

You criticised the raven inparticular due to its low shield hp. The point of a raven tank is not to have alot of "meat to chew through" but to be able to replenish as much shield as possible. Tech2 xl sp with boost amp tech2 and 2 shield rep speed rigs is obscene.

"my cap regen is a poor 500" - you're recharging cap? What do you think we are, amarr? Slap on an heavy cap injector it will see you through as you only have your sheild booster and harders requireing cap opposed to weapons as well.

"without multiple bcu2 our dps is far below opponent ships". Well, there's the glory in it. We can fit mulitple bcu2s and we don't gimp our setup.

The only ship i can really comment upon fitting problems is the hawk, but that's becuase i'm attempting to put the best of the best on an ickle ship that just wants to use rockets.

- my advice -
It's better than "oh my god, stop whining", honest. Just think of the purpose of your ship before you even get in it. Don't sit there and think about the situations you want to put it in, but rather, think of the situations that it wants to be put in. Slam a raven/drake/crow/whatever 0km from your target and attempt to pwn your way though = fail. bait ships about, splitting them and then getting them to come to you from say 50km gives you the advantage.

by the way, the raven is a beast. There are only two ships (exclusive of faction and cap) that it shouldn't be pitted against and that's the domi and apoc. You've got every other class of ship, every variant and race to to go into a fight against and not have to really worry. If you get jammed, F.o.F missiles. If you get them from long range and they begin to approach then you don't have to worry about optimal range.

If you want speed and tackling ability get a crow.

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Originally by: Tista

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-With all engineering skills 5 in a raven (our main battleship):
i have 9000 sheilds, 6500 capacitor, 6 launcher slots..
with 3 regen rigs and max skills my cap regen is a poor 550

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