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Satchel Darkmatter
Massive Dynamic inc. Care Factor
28
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Posted - 2016.12.11 13:15:28 -
[1] - Quote
The gaming world should be abuz right now over what I think was confirmed as the biggest NON battle ever to take place in EvE given the defenders were so out gunned they made the only logical choice and packed up and went home leaving 5k players to grind through the awful time dilation and just wait until it exploded.
Honestly this was utter ****, something that should have been utterly epic was a total cluster ****, boring as all hell with most people watching movies on their other monitors, seriously !!!!. and even with all of that I bet people will still romanticise it as if it was like a scene from the trailer or some cool space movie.
I don't know really what I was expecting but I guess I was not expecting to be so disappointed by the whole event..
It's clear to me that CCP just allowing thousands of people to openly jump into a system and battle is a **** idea, it makes for a good headline but no one can possibly think that was fun for anyone involved, I'm not sure what the solution is but I hope CCP actually put some time into thinking about it and possibly come up with something better than this.
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Lilith Abaddon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.12.11 13:23:34 -
[2] - Quote
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:The gaming world should be abuz right now over what I think was confirmed as the biggest NON battle ever to take place in EvE given the defenders were so out gunned they made the only logical choice and packed up and went home leaving 5k players to grind through the awful time dilation and just wait until it exploded.
Honestly this was utter ****, something that should have been utterly epic was a total cluster ****, boring as all hell with most people watching movies on their other monitors, seriously !!!!. and even with all of that I bet people will still romanticise it as if it was like a scene from the trailer or some cool space movie.
I don't know really what I was expecting but I guess I was not expecting to be so disappointed by the whole event..
It's clear to me that CCP just allowing thousands of people to openly jump into a system and battle is a **** idea, it makes for a good headline but no one can possibly think that was fun for anyone involved, I'm not sure what the solution is but I hope CCP actually put some time into thinking about it and possibly come up with something better than this.
Can't agree more. |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
352
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Posted - 2016.12.11 13:25:04 -
[3] - Quote
I dunno. I was going to turn up for the fleet op, because I haven't done for very long time and it looked like a nice occasion to turn up. I decided to take a nap about 5 hours before the op time, and woke up today and realised my 'nap' lasted 23 hours. :p
Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
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Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
88
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Posted - 2016.12.11 13:36:07 -
[4] - Quote
Solution to time dilation is p2p netcode mixed in with the current server-client netcode. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
298
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Posted - 2016.12.11 13:37:48 -
[5] - Quote
facts:
- you can't limit the access to a system and call it "fair" for anyone. you're gonna leave outside someone either on defenders/attacker/third party side, and they have all the rights to be there shooting at anything they want. - Eve has limits: hardware and softare wise
that said, i keep hearing that rewriting eve in a more performing language is too expensive etc. they keep investing eve's money in other games (aka valkirye etc) insted of doing it. they keep trasforming eve in f2p and all of that, uniforming themself to the market.
i mean, those are all choices. As customers we can't say anything about it. you can either choose to play it or not.
as i see it, eve will become another tipical game on the market. nothing different. same things. item shop and f2p. Eve is Dying SoonGäó
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Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
262
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Posted - 2016.12.11 15:30:35 -
[6] - Quote
Soi what? This is player driven contend! If the defenders pack up and go there is no content. So it is in the interest of the players to have fair games. If you don't that's the result.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8299
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Posted - 2016.12.11 15:32:22 -
[7] - Quote
Logan Revelore wrote:Solution to time dilation is p2p netcode mixed in with the current server-client netcode.
Peer to peer for EVE?
Get out
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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2Sonas1Cup
175
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Posted - 2016.12.11 15:43:12 -
[8] - Quote
Solution to time dilation is instances and proxied servers. Too much for CCP I guess. Something that blizzard has been doing for a decade now.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
298
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Posted - 2016.12.11 15:44:11 -
[9] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Soi what? This is player driven contend! If the defenders pack up and go there is no content. So it is in the interest of the players to have fair games. If you don't that's the result.
you are completely wrong dude. fair game in eve never existed, never exist and never will exist.
you can see it only in the stupid stuff of alliance tournament. that TBH have nothing to do with eve.
eve is survival, the jungle law.... or used to be. |
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
133
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Posted - 2016.12.11 15:54:55 -
[10] - Quote
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:It's clear to me that CCP just allowing thousands of people to openly jump into a system and battle is a **** idea. It is a terrible idea from pretty much every point of view. That's why I'm happy they still do it.
According to Moore's law hardware will be twice as fast two years from now. Does that mean it will be more fun then? Nope, it just means it'll be GêÜ2 as many people. To the best of my knowledge there's no alternative to Eve for gamers who want large fights like this, so how many participate might actually be balanced by their affection for large battles versus their aversion towards delay.
The reason I actually like TiDi as a mechanic is one of its side effects. It lessens the impact of lag. There will still be players with 60ms and players with 2000ms pings to the server in the same battle, but if there is only one tick every 10 seconds, their chances of reacting to events are pretty much equal. |
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
856
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Posted - 2016.12.11 17:01:08 -
[11] - Quote
While the world was watching the Keepstar, we were shooting a small Gallente control tower in a C1 lol
Romance intensifies
@lunettelulu7
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
299
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Posted - 2016.12.11 17:06:06 -
[12] - Quote
and EE was losing titans and supers |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
404
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Posted - 2016.12.11 17:13:15 -
[13] - Quote
Eve is an emergent game world, run almost entirely by the players. Those players assessed the situation and didn't waste their lives and ships in a futile effort. That's playing smart, and so was bringing such an overwhelming force as to render defense impossible. Both sides made appropriate strategic decisions. No one has an obligation to entertain you in the process.
Blame CCP for creating a set of game mechanics to so utterly favor this type of steamrolling instead of compelling game play. All of 2016 has been characterized by this exact problem. An entire year of epic nothing-ness as empires fall with barely a shot fired. RMT money buying giant blobs that require little more than numbers on grid to win at Eve.
Welcome to Blob Tactics Online. That is currently the state of Eve's 'end game' content. |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
359
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Posted - 2016.12.11 17:18:16 -
[14] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:While the world was watching the Keepstar, we were shooting a small Gallente control tower in a C1 lol
Romance intensifies
I love that, and it's very similar to what I said to my mates while I was gambling a lot on IWI (and I say it because I remember seeing you there quite a bit Lulu heh).
While Toobo was spinning slots at 27m ISK per spin, my alt was quietly mining Ice in Gallente space at less than 27m per hour. XD
EVE is just funny that way.
Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
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Paranoid Loyd
9935
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Posted - 2016.12.11 17:24:09 -
[15] - Quote
It's really only about being part of it.
It's a technological feat considering the technology available to us, anyone who understands it appreciates it very much and dont expect it to be anything other than it was.
Wouldnt expect most instagrats to understand and I do understsnd where you are coming from but thought it should be said anyway.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
263
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Posted - 2016.12.11 19:20:12 -
[16] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Soi what? This is player driven contend! If the defenders pack up and go there is no content. So it is in the interest of the players to have fair games. If you don't that's the result.
you are completely wrong dude. fair game in eve never existed, never exist and never will exist. you can see it only in the stupid stuff of alliance tournament. that TBH have nothing to do with eve. eve is survival, the jungle law.... or used to be. Right, but if you see it like that don't complain that the other side saves their ships and you don't get a fight. The hardest fight are fights where you don't know who is winning. then you will risk bringing Capitals etc. If you don't stand a chance the other side will get no big fight.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
303
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Posted - 2016.12.11 19:29:33 -
[17] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Soel Reit wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Soi what? This is player driven contend! If the defenders pack up and go there is no content. So it is in the interest of the players to have fair games. If you don't that's the result.
you are completely wrong dude. fair game in eve never existed, never exist and never will exist. you can see it only in the stupid stuff of alliance tournament. that TBH have nothing to do with eve. eve is survival, the jungle law.... or used to be. Right, but if you see it like that don't complain that the other side saves their ships and you don't get a fight. The hardest fight are fights where you don't know who is winning. then you will risk bringing Capitals etc. If you don't stand a chance the other side will get no big fight.
i'm not complaining about not having a fight. Co2 cucked so hard the enemies not showing up for the last fight and i enjoyed it.
who is complaining is you wanting a cap number of people in the system.
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Malcorath Sacerdos
Rogue Meddlers
39
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Posted - 2016.12.11 19:32:22 -
[18] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:Solution to time dilation is instances and proxied servers. Too much for CCP I guess. Something that blizzard has been doing for a decade now.
the whole point of a one chard univerce is not to use instansing noncence its a part of an earlier golden age of MMO RPG.
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Salvos Rhoska
1656
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Posted - 2016.12.11 19:35:34 -
[19] - Quote
Dont go to the fight if you dont enjoy it.
CCP is not technically dishonest in promising them, they are just technically limited in providing them.
With Keepstars proliferating, this is what you can expect, everytime.
Just dont participate. If you dont enjoy it, dont do it.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
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CODE Special Agent
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mkint
1303
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Posted - 2016.12.11 20:39:50 -
[20] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:It's really only about being part of it.
It's a technological feat considering the technology available to us, anyone who understands it appreciates it very much and wouldn't expect it to be anything other than what it was.
Wouldnt expect most instagrats to understand and I do understsnd where you are coming from but thought it should be said anyway. a) games of any type are generally meant to be fun b) the videos CCP always puts out presents the game as something other than what it is, including what is basically false advertising for large fleet fights. c) up until f2p EVE had been on a steady decline for years. This suggests there are issues with the game's fun quotient, which will likely become more apparent as new post-f2p trends develop. d) I guess we'll see what CCP does with the f2p windfall, but if they aren't spending it on making the game more fun (as opposed to more shiny) then it's likely the rate of decline won't ultimately rebound.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Xayder
Infinitum Cartel Stella Nova
376
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Posted - 2016.12.11 21:02:12 -
[21] - Quote
best : suicide ganking worst : suicide ganking
I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main
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Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
627
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Posted - 2016.12.11 21:33:25 -
[22] - Quote
To me, the best thing about EVE is that it is peerless. There is no other game out there like it. I know because every time the Devs **** me off, I ragequit (this last one lasted 8 months) and try to find an EVE clone. Something. Anything! But nothing compares. After you've spent years and years helping build this living world, you become invested because what you've done here has had an impact on other players in a way unseen in other games.
The worst thing about EVE is that its inconsistent. It is a game constantly in flux and always changing. The road from HTFU to F2P has been rocky with casualties along the way. The switch from POS's to Citadels/ECs is also a bit bumpy. Now eventually, it's possible that you'll look back and remark on how great things are now compared to where they were. But constant updates change the game so rapidly that before you can get a handle on the last changes - more are incoming. It wasn't always like that. And rapid release means that there's bound to be something incoming you dislike. You just have to hope that there's more good than bad. And keep the (sometimes wavering) faith.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
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Salvos Rhoska
1657
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Posted - 2016.12.11 21:41:24 -
[23] - Quote
There are inherent problems in a single shard system with players that have played for a decade. Ypu can count MMOs that have lasted that long on one hand.
As survivors through multiple iterations/updates, these players have at times profited enormously, and at other times, lost. They are, in anycase, extremely rich, experienced, connected, knowledgeable and established.
Ultima Online, as a close parallel to EVE, broke this progression by dividing into Tramiel, an essentially non-pvp shard. This has not happened in EVE. EVE is competitive as it ever was.
The influence of such vets is pervasive and not to be underestimated.
Im not talking about conspiracy theories, Im talking about the strange situation where players start to take control of the game away from devs, become features of and within the game itself. Some of them have been with the game longer than any given dev, some of them know the game better than any dev.
Imagine if an MMO survived for 50 years. And imagine 50 year vets within it. Do you see what I mean?
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
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CODE Special Agent
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2Sonas1Cup
176
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Posted - 2016.12.11 21:59:42 -
[24] - Quote
Malcorath Sacerdos wrote:2Sonas1Cup wrote:Solution to time dilation is instances and proxied servers. Too much for CCP I guess. Something that blizzard has been doing for a decade now.
the whole point of a one chard univerce is not to use instansing noncence its a part of an earlier golden age of MMO RPG.
The problem with eve is that each system is in a node and server and everyone in that system will be placed in the same node, so every command from the people in that system will have to be procesed by that one node/server.
What I'm saying is to have one "virtual server holder" with the end result of commands that people are sending, but everyone is in a different node/server, and these would be the ones calculating the actions from the players, and then send the data to the "holder" and this one sending the data back to us players.
What we would be seeing is an image of the end result from everyone's actions that were calculated on the "proxied" servers. |
mkint
1304
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Posted - 2016.12.12 03:40:15 -
[25] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:Malcorath Sacerdos wrote:2Sonas1Cup wrote:Solution to time dilation is instances and proxied servers. Too much for CCP I guess. Something that blizzard has been doing for a decade now.
the whole point of a one chard univerce is not to use instansing noncence its a part of an earlier golden age of MMO RPG. The problem with eve is that each system is in a node and server and everyone in that system will be placed in the same node, so every command from the people in that system will have to be procesed by that one node/server. What I'm saying is to have one "virtual server holder" with the end result of commands that people are sending, but everyone is in a different node/server, and these would be the ones calculating the actions from the players, and then send the data to the "holder" and this one sending the data back to us players. What we would be seeing is an image of the end result from everyone's actions that were calculated on the "proxied" servers. I think you must have never seen literally any of the dev presentations about server side performance and lag. It would be awesome to have an up to date update from ops, though probably wouldn't happen until fanfest, and probably not even then. (If any devs are reading, I think we need a devblog on how the game is performing and where the bottlenecks are, like we got with tidi, biab, drone assign, and the great bot boot.) And in that context, you are speaking total gibberish. And I assume trollish.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Asmodai Xodai
117
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Posted - 2016.12.12 07:44:35 -
[26] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote: The problem with eve is that each system is in a node and server and everyone in that system will be placed in the same node, so every command from the people in that system will have to be procesed by that one node/server.
While there are no doubt many architectural and design problems with the current system (I'm not knocking the devs - it happens with any system that grows 'organically' with many devs coming and going), one fundamental issue goes down to the choice of programming language.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Python. It's great for what it is and what it does. But if you want nodes, processes switching between nodes, load balancing, concurrency, parallelism, etc. it is the wrong tool for the job here, just like most programming languages would be.
I would suggest looking at Erlang. First doing some prototyping and testing with it, and if things look good, building an entire system from the ground up in it. Just seems like it is tailor made to solve the problems that need to be solved in this kind of game (MMO-whatever). |
Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
263
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Posted - 2016.12.12 11:58:03 -
[27] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote: The problem with eve is that each system is in a node and server and everyone in that system will be placed in the same node, so every command from the people in that system will have to be procesed by that one node/server.
What I'm saying is to have one "virtual server holder" with the end result of commands that people are sending, but everyone is in a different node/server, and these would be the ones calculating the actions from the players, and then send the data to the "holder" and this one sending the data back to us players.
What we would be seeing is an image of the end result from everyone's actions that were calculated on the "proxied" servers.
They have high performance Servers for big fights but there is just that amount of traffic that even these servers can handle. If you have 1500+ players on one grid there is nothing that different nodes can do. There is just raw power and nothing more. if you have 50 player you need to process the data from 50 player and send the results to 50players. If you have 1500 players you need to send the results from 1500 players to 1500 players. It's not linear it's exponential. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
842
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Posted - 2016.12.12 16:55:21 -
[28] - Quote
Massive fleet fights are by far the most boring PvP in EVE (outside of HS ganking). For the life of me I don't know why people do it. Get out of HS, out of null and do small gang work in LS and WHs. |
Geronimo McVain
EVE University Ivy League
263
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Posted - 2016.12.12 18:22:13 -
[29] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Massive fleet fights are by far the most boring PvP in EVE (outside of HS ganking). For the life of me I don't know why people do it. Get out of HS, out of null and do small gang work in LS and WHs. That's exactly why Eve is so great: You can do what you want. Fleet fight, small gang, solo, PvE,mining, station trading, industry. In the end you get a diverse community which is much more fun because it causes friction which makes the game interesting. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
552
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Posted - 2016.12.12 18:43:58 -
[30] - Quote
Toobo wrote:I dunno. I was going to turn up for the fleet op, because I haven't done for very long time and it looked like a nice occasion to turn up. I decided to take a nap about 5 hours before the op time, and woke up today and realised my 'nap' lasted 23 hours. :p
You experienced real life TIDI.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
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