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The Trouble with Tribbles (aka Rigs)

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Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.11 22:11:00 - [1] I would like to request that ccp remove the restriction that ships must be repacked in order to fit in other ships. The reason behind it... rigs. Adding rigs to ships has grossley complicated the moving process. You can do nothing but A. loose the rigs, or B. fly every ship with rigs to its new home. A. seems rather foolish at this point because rigs are still stupidily expensive (anything above a couple mil for rigs is stupid considering what CCP said about rigs before they were introduced) B also seems foolish especially with the advent of freighter class ships. I dont see how not having to pack ships before hauling them presents any major problems. Ships take up huge amounts of space in that form which justifies the load. This would help people with sec problems that cant travel into higher sec areas and must rely on freighter pilots like myself to move their equipment for them. As I said before the sheer size of ships should justify this change. aka reward vs work in this case. reward you get your ship moved, downfall you cant move much else because of lack of space. Personally, Id rather be able to repack ships since rigs become part of the hull, but because I dont see ccp ever doing such a thing, the above is the least I can hope for.
Jaggeh Gallente Furious Angels	Posted - 2007.04.11 23:06:00 - [2] they are stupidly expensive because thats what players want them to be. you dont need rigs. leave them as they are they are fine. --------------------------------------- Furious Angels are recruiting Carpe Pugya Pyga - Seize the Buttocks
Marlenus Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2007.04.11 23:39:00 - [3] I agree, we really need some sort of high-sec ability to transport assembled ships. I'm not sure I like the idea of turning every freighter into a high-sec carrier at the stroke of a pen, though. Since freighters only load and unload in stations, though, I don't see why a freighter-like vessel that can move a few assembled ships through high sec would be a game breaker. And it would be a huge convenience. ------------------ Ironfleet.com Proposal: Automated Ore Return Vehicles
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.04.11 23:52:00 - [4] I've asked for this here before as well. Any economy thrives on the ease of movement of goods. EVE's economy is deep enough that it can feel this effect too. There have been several times I wished to pack-up and move to a new region (such as to avoid lag hell of many Caldari areas) but decided against it because it would be a HUGE pain to move my ships one at a time 20j to their new home (consider moving just 5 ships like that...that's 180 jumps...screw that). So instead I stay put. My guess is that repacking a ship with rigs would allow it on the market as a packaged item and maybe this would mess things up somehow. Or some other technical reason I am unaware of. Since rigs can now be removed at least you do not need repacking as a method to get rid of them. Make a special "Transport" repacking mode or allow us to move unpackaged ships. Anything except as it is. Barring some technical issue I cannot see how this in anyway upsets game balance and in fact would only improve it. Keeping the playerbase mobile is a good thing.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.12 04:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Jaggeh they are stupidly expensive because thats what players want them to be. you dont need rigs. leave them as they are they are fine. You sir know nothing about eve economics. Zyd is so absurdly high right now because players made it that way... yeah see what I mean? The issue is supply and demand, rigs are in high demand with little supply which drives prices. Eve has plenty of competition and the price crash on T2 items has proved this. It works the same way with rigs. It doesnt matter how much you want to sell an item for, because in the end the market decides, not you. Please think before posting.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.12 04:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Marlenus I agree, we really need some sort of high-sec ability to transport assembled ships. I'm not sure I like the idea of turning every freighter into a high-sec carrier at the stroke of a pen, though. Since freighters only load and unload in stations, though, I don't see why a freighter-like vessel that can move a few assembled ships through high sec would be a game breaker. And it would be a huge convenience. Not really sure how you would be turning freighters into carriers as they can already transport repacked ships. Can you explain to me how making them able to hold unpacked ships makes them like carriers (carriers can only hold ships in their maint bay nothing else)
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated	Posted - 2007.04.12 04:30:00 - [7] Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 12/04/2007 04:26:25 Not only that, who cares if a transport was like a carrier. Blow it to hell and there goes all the ships in it. It's not like it's actually got a tank, nor can it tranport the pilots.
Sieges	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:26:00 - [8] I posted an idea about that here I really think they need to come up with a way to let us "repackage-to-move" rigged ships. I think a big problem might be how the database would handle these items.
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Marlenus I agree, we really need some sort of high-sec ability to transport assembled ships. I'm not sure I like the idea of turning every freighter into a high-sec carrier at the stroke of a pen, though. Since freighters only load and unload in stations, though, I don't see why a freighter-like vessel that can move a few assembled ships through high sec would be a game breaker. And it would be a huge convenience. Titans and jump portals do the trick Thank You SkyFlyer
Hazkr Rwzk coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.11 23:42:00 - [10] err why not buy your ship + mods and dont fit the rigs untill its in itz new home?
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.15 21:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Hazkr Rwzk err why not buy your ship + mods and dont fit the rigs untill its in itz new home? What happens if you do this and need to move again.....
Sieges	Posted - 2007.05.16 03:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Hazkr Rwzk err why not buy your ship + mods and dont fit the rigs untill its in itz new home? What happens if you do this and need to move again..... Exactly, many players are nomadic and use freighters to move our ships around. I now have three rigged ships that I have to fly manually when I move. ----------- We need a way to Repackage and Transport Rigged Ships.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.05.16 05:15:00 - [13] <--- volenteer for eve taxi driver force --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.16 06:07:00 - [14] rigs are priced at a balance between supply and demand
Incurso	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:36:00 - [15] A way to transport ships without losing rigs is defiantly needed. Currently it is too difficult to move your base of operations. And there is a need to move your base of operation in EVE: Lag, availability of better mission agents, roid field heavily mined out, moving back and forth between regions for faction grinding, etc. In my opinion the difficulty in moving assembled ships hits casual gamers particularly hard. Personally I have very little time to play in a week. It would take me a 1 - 3 nights to relocate all my stuff from one system to another, if I used rigs. This ends up being more like work, then a fun game, and there is no guarantee the system you move to will be a satisfying for very long. Perhaps CCP added rigs with an intention of limiting mobility. Or purposely created a trade off between mobility and the higher functionality provided by rigs. But some compromise would be nice. Personally I would like to see a new class of freighter; something that could carry 6 sub-capital ships of any size and maybe a 20,000 unit cargo hold. Enough ship slots for a variety of mission types and enough cargo hold to carry loot to better markets. Of course more loot could be stored in the assembled ships cargo holds. This new freighter would have to dock to unload the carried ships. I think this would only add to the enjoyment of EVE
zentary	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:40:00 - [16] if you just make it so you can just fit a bs in a hauler what ever fully fitted with mods and all that would be like saying here you can now transoprt like 20+ fully fitted bs's in a frieghter and that would be messed up i think oh and in a ms you can fit more probable
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:49:00 - [17] Some of you people just enjoy whining, don't you? I've got four home base hangars in various parts of the universe. I've got me a 0.0 home base (which I'm hoping survives the war between CVA and UK), a low sec mission base, a high sec mission base (also serves as corp hq), and a base at the edge of my preferred 0.0 entry pipe. That's about a 40 jump round trip. Moving massive amounts of stuff from one to the other can occupy the better part of an evening of play. Guess what, I don't gripe about it. Its a part of the game. Its called "logistics". You don't make a major move without thinking through the consequences. Is the gear your taking worth the space on the indie? Will you need it at this base, or that one? Is it better to leave it and buy locally? You learn real quick to prioritize between necessities and luxuries. Compromise becomes one of your most commonly used buzzwords. You do not need to pack everything you own into a frickin' U-Haul industrial ship everytime you want to try a new region out. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Adaris Dark and Light inc.	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:54:00 - [18] I hope this is relevant but basically I see it that if you could keep rigs you bought and use them again and again, the industry for making them would fizzle out and die. They are a luxury item like implants designed to give you that little bit more oomph, if you don't like the price build one or look for a better price, or simply live without them. * * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
Incurso	Posted - 2007.05.17 18:44:00 - [19] Well I am pretty sure the number of ships being blown up everyday is more then enough to keep the rig manufactures in business.
Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.17 19:02:00 - [20] Move your stuff. Clone jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. Pod jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. All moved! Riggs offer special bonuses, I don't mind if they have special penalties. After all you are talking about some jury rigged pos you are sticking on the side of your ship made out of spare parts. It shouldn't transport well.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.17 19:53:00 - [21] Why pod and waste a clone jump? Shuttles will cover 20 jumps in barely more time than warping to 0 manually with Nav V. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.05.17 19:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Herculite Move your stuff. Clone jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. Pod jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. All moved! Riggs offer special bonuses, I don't mind if they have special penalties. After all you are talking about some jury rigged pos you are sticking on the side of your ship made out of spare parts. It shouldn't transport well. people have empty clones?
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.17 21:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Humpalot My guess is that repacking a ship with rigs would allow it on the market as a packaged item and maybe this would mess things up somehow. Or some other technical reason I am unaware of. Since rigs can now be removed at least you do not need repacking as a method to get rid of them. Make a special "Transport" repacking mode or allow us to move unpackaged ships. Anything except as it is. Barring some technical issue I cannot see how this in anyway upsets game balance and in fact would only improve it. Exactly. For implementation, what you'd be looking at is the ability to store instanced/singleton items inside of containers; you could then issue a courier mission for a rigged ship. --P
Mogrin Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:32:00 - [24] Well riggings aren't modules so I think you should have to remove them when repackaging. Just have them there when you reassemble the ship again. It makes sense, they ARE riggings. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
Dave White coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:43:00 - [25] I agree. Rigs should be able to be removed from the ship, one way or another, without getting destroyed. CORA. Killboard Personal Killboard
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:55:00 - [26] Originally by: Herculite Move your stuff. Clone jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. Pod jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. All moved! Riggs offer special bonuses, I don't mind if they have special penalties. After all you are talking about some jury rigged pos you are sticking on the side of your ship made out of spare parts. It shouldn't transport well. Given your current corp I would have thought a more well reasoned response. Granted Amp or Oku has probably clouded your judgement... not like they say anything intelligent anyway :P In any case, you fail to realize that for most people, including present company clones are VERY expensive. It would make more since to just fly the ships than waste money on clones... and that doesnt even consider implants... Surprise something like that wouldnt occur to you given the SP requirements of your current employer.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Janu Hull Some of you people just enjoy whining, don't you? I've got four home base hangars in various parts of the universe. I've got me a 0.0 home base (which I'm hoping survives the war between CVA and UK), a low sec mission base, a high sec mission base (also serves as corp hq), and a base at the edge of my preferred 0.0 entry pipe. That's about a 40 jump round trip. Moving massive amounts of stuff from one to the other can occupy the better part of an evening of play. Guess what, I don't gripe about it. Its a part of the game. Its called "logistics". You don't make a major move without thinking through the consequences. Is the gear your taking worth the space on the indie? Will you need it at this base, or that one? Is it better to leave it and buy locally? You learn real quick to prioritize between necessities and luxuries. Compromise becomes one of your most commonly used buzzwords. You do not need to pack everything you own into a frickin' U-Haul industrial ship everytime you want to try a new region out. It appears someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today eh. Please note the difference between this post and a "whine" post as you so describe it. Whines cry boo hoo and wha wha wha... This post actually offers a solution to a current problem, and could be considered a viable arguement for a change. Now on to your arguements. First multiple bases assumes that a player has the ability to have such things. To have that many ships and mods and etc would require alot of isk and time, something that I would argue the vast majority of noobie empire players havent estabished yet. You cant discount something just because it doesnt suit your situation. You need to look at the whole picture. Further, if you had paid close attention to my post you would have noticed that I mentioned the trade off is the extra space required by the unpacked ships. Because ships are so big it be would unlikely that you would be able to fit more than a few ships at a time, and that excludes other neccesiaties such as fittings and ammo etc. The point is not to "fit everything in a uhaul" but to make it feasable for players to move rigged ships.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Adaris I hope this is relevant but basically I see it that if you could keep rigs you bought and use them again and again, the industry for making them would fizzle out and die. They are a luxury item like implants designed to give you that little bit more oomph, if you don't like the price build one or look for a better price, or simply live without them. The post was not about the price of rigs if you read carefully. Further, there are so many ships in eve that at current production not even a third of the ships in eve would be fully rigged in a year. The market for rigs is practically infinite. Again not the point of this post.
Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Herculite Move your stuff. Clone jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. Pod jump back. Move a rigged ship afk. All moved! Riggs offer special bonuses, I don't mind if they have special penalties. After all you are talking about some jury rigged pos you are sticking on the side of your ship made out of spare parts. It shouldn't transport well. Given your current corp I would have thought a more well reasoned response. Granted Amp or Oku has probably clouded your judgement... not like they say anything intelligent anyway :P In any case, you fail to realize that for most people, including present company clones are VERY expensive. It would make more since to just fly the ships than waste money on clones... and that doesnt even consider implants... Surprise something like that wouldnt occur to you given the SP requirements of your current employer. Eh? You can't be that poor that a few clones will be that big a burden on your wallet. If so I would recommend a shuttle to move your clones you can't afford to lose, shuttles are quite inexpensive I hear. If you need a loan, I might be able to offer you a reasonable interest rate if you can offer me some good references.
AMPHIARAUS Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Riley Craven Given your current corp I would have thought a more well reasoned response. Granted Amp or Oku has probably clouded your judgement... not like they say anything intelligent anyway :P In any case, you fail to realize that for most people, including present company clones are VERY expensive. It would make more since to just fly the ships than waste money on clones... and that doesnt even consider implants... Surprise something like that wouldnt occur to you given the SP requirements of your current employer. <3 I miss you in corp chat. Well, at least I miss taking the **** out of you.

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