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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1103
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Posted - 2016.12.28 17:29:35 -
[1] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Retracting that idiotic watchlist change would help more than being able to point freighters. I will not debate the whole watch list change thing here as this is not the appropriate topic for it. I will on the other hand note that undoing the watch list changes will have ZERO impact on bumping.
Bumping remains a very touchy and difficult topic to deal with, while there are some valid reasons to keep it there are as many valid reasons to remove it or change it significantly. One part of me wants it removed from the game entirely, the other says wait not so fast bumping is a tactic employed in my low sec life to keep a target from docking. One thought is to give the bumper a suspect timer, that would have virtually no effect on life in low, nul or worm holes but it would allow for your corp mates and the white knights in the game to actually come to your aide instead of flying off in hopes that they do no get caught. I know the gankers are not gong to like this because it actually puts their bumping characters at risk, but hey they are the ones telling us to bring friends to protect you and this idea makes that possible. The only problem we would need to work out with this is how to handle the unintentional bumps that occur when un-docking from a station. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1110
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Posted - 2016.12.29 15:13:05 -
[2] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:This is the problem with that idea. I and a few friends can park several freighters in front of jita 4-4 undock and cause chaos. Equally we can park 10km from a high traffic gate in line with auto piloting ships and cause an equal amount of chaos. I did specifically mention that my idea could cause problems with the un-docks in the game, so thank you for reinforcing the point. Instead wasting time, effort and space pointing out something that was already stated do you have any ideas on how to solve that specific aspect of the situation without completely eliminating the timer as an option? |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1113
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Posted - 2016.12.30 16:56:27 -
[3] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: I don't think there is anything that can replace it without causing other issues. Typical of so many in this game, take the easy way and simply say it cannot be done without bothering to take the time to actually think the problem through. Unintended bumps happen at crowded areas like un-docks and gates, your solution is that nothing can be done I disagree. The game already tracks if your ship has bumped into another, or if another ship has bumped into you. It would be easy and add very little server load to simply count the number of times your ship has bumped into the same ship. With this information available the only thing that needs to be decided is how many times is it OK to bump into one other ship and over how much time. For a discussion starter let's go with three bumps over a two minute period this would cover every single unintended bumping situation I have ever experienced. If you bump into that one ship more than three times in a 2 minute period then you get your flag, if not then no flag is added and off you go and the whole process starts anew on the next un-dock or gate.
Another idea is for the game to calculate damage done to both ships based on speed and mass of both during the bump and then simply subtract that amount from the EHP of both ships. No resistances would apply because direct physical contact however any passive or active tank would be accounted for in the usual way. Not a real fan of this because it does nothing to address the one aspect of bumping that really bothers me but it would be a step in the right direction.
Any other thoughts or ideas?
baltec1 wrote: When we look at it, bumping rather easy to both avoid and counter. Let's leave those ships on autopilot out of this, anyone that is lazy enough to autopilot something worth ganking gets what they deserve. With that out of the way, I disagree with your statement that bumps are easily avoided and easily countered. See the section below on multiple accounts it is a part of the rest of these.
Let us start with the avoidance thing. Latency can be an issue here granted it is not likely to be a very big part but it does play a role and there is nothing a player can do about latency other than to move to another location with better internet and / or closer to the servers. Probably the biggest reason your are incorrect here is the mobility and maneuverability of the ships involved. If you are the intended target and in a smaller and more nimble ship then you have the advantage and with good piloting have a reasonable chance to escape the situation. On the other hand if you are flying a freighter and come up against a Machariel that is fit for maximum agility you have no (as in zero) chance to avoid the bump simply because your ship is to slow. Yes spotters and webbers are a thing.
Considering the ships used for bumping high value targets there is only one viable counter and that is the web into warp thing and that has it's own problems most of which are centered on the requirement to have multiple accounts. Trying to gank the bumper really has virtually no chance of success and it will always end up with ship losses due to Concord. Besides that most ships I have seen used to bump have enough ehp to ignore a small scale attack long enough to accomplish the required task making a small scale attack worthless and a larger scale attack is not always possible.
Trying to bump the bumper likewise is a questionable situation. Countering a bumper by trying to bump them is one of those things that looks good here in the forums but in reality it is very difficult to accomplish. The close proximity required means there is significant risk that you will hit the very ship you are trying to help thus aiding the bumper in their job. Trying to hit the bumper head on to stop their movement is impossible due to the close proximity to other ships involved, you simply do not have the room to maneuver into position. Hitting the bumper from the side has minimal to no impact on the situation as well. When you bump someone from the side you do not eliminate their forward movement you only impart a side movement to their ship so even if you hit the bumper he would still hit the target ship with the same amount of force.
baltec1 wrote: There is only two classes of ship that are really impacted by this and both are corp/fleet focused. Everything else is nimble enough to avoid being bumped through piloting and fitting options. Possibly this is true in your dreams, but not in reality. I know dozens of solo players that fly freighters almost exclusively because they like the whole independent does not have to answer to anyone but themselves aspect of what they do.
Now to that multiple account thing. In another topic about computer hardware Rivr was lamenting how money allows for a better in game experience and that certainly is true for multiple accounts. And all areas of the game use them and for the same reasons, no one online at the moment, no one with the proper skills, no one in the same area, no on I can trust and the list goes on. Multiple accounts are the single biggest balance nightmare we and CCP have to deal with perhaps it is time that we were all restricted to a single account then everyone would have to rely on friends and corp mates instead of some of us having the luxery of multiple accounts.
baltec 1 in your post quoted above you referred to certain classes of ships as being viewed as corp assets instead of belonging to individual characters. I have not had time to really think about this and all the ways it could affect the game both positive an negative but initially it seems to hold some interesting possibilities. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1116
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Posted - 2016.12.31 16:33:13 -
[4] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It only plays a part if you are trying to play from the Ross ice shelf or low earth orbit. Nothing can catch a webbed freighter, there is simply not enough time. Again with the assumptions that everyone living in a populated area has fast internet because you do. I live about 40 miles outside a major west coast city and for various "technical" reasons the latency in my area is so bad that I essentially I play EvE on a 2 second server tick because that is the best my internet connection will allow. If you are interested I can give you all the details of why as it was explained to me by the phone company, cell phone companies and the cable companies in teh mean time I will not waste the forum space sine you likely do not care. |
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