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Close ALL 10/10 complex UNTIL the Blood Raider ones are getting fixed

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Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.04.19 00:51:00 - [31] Perhaps them being closed was part of the BoB pleabargain to get to keep all the rest of their illgotten gains.
Zevon Confuse-A-Cat Ltd.	Posted - 2007.04.19 00:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Wendat Huron Perhaps them being closed was part of the BoB pleabargain to get to keep all the rest of their illgotten gains. Beat on it all you want. That horse can't get more dead.
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.04.19 01:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Zevon Originally by: Wendat Huron Perhaps them being closed was part of the BoB pleabargain to get to keep all the rest of their illgotten gains. Beat on it all you want. That horse can't get more dead. Have you disbanded yet? I for one can't stand these lowlifes that fly under the pretense of being something in tune with bushido, given the japanese influenced names and logos, yet they fail to do the right thing when disgraced.
Zevon Confuse-A-Cat Ltd.	Posted - 2007.04.19 01:19:00 - [34] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: Zevon Originally by: Wendat Huron Perhaps them being closed was part of the BoB pleabargain to get to keep all the rest of their illgotten gains. Beat on it all you want. That horse can't get more dead. Blah blah blah BoB eats babies Thanks for sharing. Twice. Back on track: Maybe I don't fully understand the mechanics, but why do complexes have to be static? Couldn't you just randomly generate them every time the server gets reset? Pop them in a different location? Randomize them a bit?
Lord Slater Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.04.19 01:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Zevon Originally by: Wendat Huron Perhaps them being closed was part of the BoB pleabargain to get to keep all the rest of their illgotten gains. Beat on it all you want. That horse can't get more dead. Its amazing how some people can close there eyes to the evidence. ----------------------------------------------- YYAARRHH HAHAHA IM THE HAPPY PIRATE
Varriq Gallente Hundreds of Cats Association	Posted - 2007.04.19 01:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Zevon Back on track: Maybe I don't fully understand the mechanics, but why do complexes have to be static? Couldn't you just randomly generate them every time the server gets reset? Pop them in a different location? Randomize them a bit? For the very same reason why arkonor (and veldspar for the matter) belts are static. Alliances should have resources to protect and fight over. Moreover, for peoples like you who want plexes randonmly generated CCP introduced exploration. So now we have the best of both worlds - static plexes to fight over for big alliance guys and hidden plexes to scan over for small guys. Putting the content out of the game is always bad, CCP done the very right thing by adding content and not removing it.
Brolly Caldari Morphic field	Posted - 2007.04.19 02:19:00 - [37] Originally by: Ker Ching Originally by: RedFall Let's just close all complexes forever. That should solve the problem. /signed. Get rid of static complexes and make exploration the ONLY way of finding any complex. Yups, and introduce many more complexes for phun and prophet
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.04.19 03:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Flamothron Knowing that a 10/10 plex can generate more than 2 Bill/day isk if farmed correctly its not acceptable and mostly not FAIR that ONLY the DELVE, QUERIOUS and PERIOD BASIS 10/10 complex are getting closed. This certainly affects the fairness of the game and also the gamming experiance of an alliance members if the alliance in question can't generate ISK the way ALL alliance does (doing 10/10 plex) So due to a clear unfairness i ask for the closure of all EVE 10/10 plex until the blood raiders 10/10 plex are fixed. In light of this, I demand the closure of ALL complexes, because there aren't any at all in the new regions. The lack of complexes is clearly unfair to those alliances who live there. ---- Rabb Darktide Fleet Admiral (CEO) / O X I D E High Council Independent Fleet [INDF] INDF Recruitment
Flamothron	Posted - 2007.04.19 05:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Flamothron on 19/04/2007 05:13:02 Please stay on topic of this post do you think it is fair that people in Delve, Querious and Period Basis are currently suffering the loss of billions per day cause of a technical glitch while people who are settled in other regions, that does not suffer any glitch, can make income of what they have fought for (thier regions ressources)? Yes, No ? Why ? What should be done ? I think its completly unfair knowing that people who fight evry day for those regions and people who spent a lot of time to conquer them are completly ignored by the, now usual, silence of CCP (Not a bit of official information was deliverd about the closing of 10/10 blood raider plex). Can we please AT LEAST know what the hell is going on with those plex ? To fully enjoy a game they are paying a monthly fee for, i think, in the first place, people need to be confident on that games relative stability and mostly have a complete impression of fairness between the player. Even though i know CCP team are doing their best to fix the issue of blood raider plex, I do not have this impression of fairness right now. As for those who demand that ALL complex should be closed because there is no complex in the drone region I think your simply not on topic. Drones region NEVER had complexes. May i ask why you decided to fight (if you had to fight at all) for those region that were complexeless if your goal is to do complex? People in drone regions DIDNT LOOSE ANYTHING compared to people that live in DELVE, QUERIOUS and PERIOD BASIS who LOST a big chunk of their alliance income. Thx for reading -Flame
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.04.19 05:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Flamothron Edited by: Flamothron on 19/04/2007 05:13:02 Please stay on topic of this post do you think it is fair that people in Delve, Querious and Period Basis are currently suffering the loss of billions per day cause of a technical glitch while people who are settled in other regions, that does not suffer any glitch, can make income of what they have fought for (thier regions ressources)? Yes, No ? Why ? What should be done ? I think its completly unfair knowing that people who fight evry day for those regions and people who spent a lot of time to conquer them are completly ignored by the, now usual, silence of CCP (Not a bit of official information was deliverd about the closing of 10/10 blood raider plex). Can we please AT LEAST know what the hell is going on with those plex ? To fully enjoy a game they are paying a monthly fee for, i think, in the first place, people need to be confident on that games relative stability and mostly have a complete impression of fairness between the player. Even though i know CCP team are doing their best to fix the issue of blood raider plex, I do not have this impression of fairness right now. As for those who demand that ALL complex should be closed because there is no complex in the drone region I think your simply not on topic. Drones region NEVER had complexes. May i ask why you decided to fight (if you had to fight at all) for those region that were complexeless if your goal is to do complex? People in drone regions DIDNT LOOSE ANYTHING compared to people that live in DELVE, QUERIOUS and PERIOD BASIS who LOST a big chunk of their alliance income. Thx for reading -Flame You are entirely correct. Not having 10/10 plexes working while others do is unfair. But we have to be consistent, don't we? In the drone regions, asteroid respawn is bugged. Therefore we need to nerf the respawn on all asteroid belts across Eve until those can be fixed. Otherwise it would be grossly unfair, since I can guarantee you that mining across all the drone regions would bring in a hell of a lot more than a few bugged 10/10 plexes.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.19 08:09:00 - [41] Originally by: Flamothron do you think it is fair .. i know CCP team are doing their best to fix the issue Actually it is fair indeed. We can take granted that in complex game like Eve there always will be pretty many non-critical bugs. Sometimes they affect you more than others, but most of the time it averages out, and hence, is fair. If you think about a bit more, what you are suggesting is obviously impossible policy to hold on. Compare for example: * Oops, Kestrel has critical bug that will be fixed within week -> in the mean time no other ship type can allowed to work since their pilots would gain advantange over Kestrel focused pilots * Oops, some alliance got small edge by taking advantage of cheating -> every other alliance/pilot must be given competive edge over everyone else.. So assuming there is at least some competive selection on choosing who get to use such complexity, I'll assume your post was just meant to be variad of "Hey I need attention here" cry towards CCP. -Lasse
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.04.19 08:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Flamothron Edited by: Flamothron on 19/04/2007 05:13:02 Please stay on topic of this post do you think it is fair that people in Delve, Querious and Period Basis are currently suffering the loss of billions per day cause of a technical glitch while people who are settled in other regions, that does not suffer any glitch, can make income of what they have fought for (thier regions ressources)? Yes, No ? Why ? What should be done ? I think its completly unfair knowing that people who fight evry day for those regions and people who spent a lot of time to conquer them are completly ignored by the, now usual, silence of CCP (Not a bit of official information was deliverd about the closing of 10/10 blood raider plex). Can we please AT LEAST know what the hell is going on with those plex ? To fully enjoy a game they are paying a monthly fee for, i think, in the first place, people need to be confident on that games relative stability and mostly have a complete impression of fairness between the player. Even though i know CCP team are doing their best to fix the issue of blood raider plex, I do not have this impression of fairness right now. As for those who demand that ALL complex should be closed because there is no complex in the drone region I think your simply not on topic. Drones region NEVER had complexes. May i ask why you decided to fight (if you had to fight at all) for those region that were complexeless if your goal is to do complex? People in drone regions DIDNT LOOSE ANYTHING compared to people that live in DELVE, QUERIOUS and PERIOD BASIS who LOST a big chunk of their alliance income. Thx for reading -Flame Is it fair that there are no complexes of any sort that work or even exist in the 8 new regions added in Revelations? Is it fair that the asteroid belts in the 8 new regions don't respawn correctly? Is it fair that a small number have held onto a Tech 2 monopoly for so very long? Was it fair that BoB was given BPOs by a developer? Was it fair that BoB was allowed to keep 8 months worth of proceeds from those BPOs even after it was discovered? EVE isn't about fairness. If it was you'd all be flying the same ships, all systems would be identical, and nothing would be better than anything else. It would be boring stale and die quickly if all things were fair and equal. They should not endeavor to make all things equal and fair. They should not turn off the other 10/10 plexes, nor any other plexes, nor should they turn off the asteroid belts of other regions. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Slate Fistcrunch Direct Intent The Makhai	Posted - 2007.04.19 08:56:00 - [43] Close all static plexes except for tutorial. Sounds good to me. Gives developers ways to distribute complexes if an imbalance is discovered. Combats farming in general. While you're at it, fix the hacking cans / item spawn areas at the COSMOS empire sites. Move the 100m+ isk items out of static areas and seed more of the required items for missions at random times. Ridiculous that someone can log in once an hour and grab all the items and ruin a COSMOS mission progression for everyone else attempting to experience the game.
Tradiska	Posted - 2007.04.19 11:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf Is it fair that there are no complexes of any sort that work or even exist in the 8 new regions added in Revelations? Is it fair that the asteroid belts in the 8 new regions don't respawn correctly? Is it fair that a small number have held onto a Tech 2 monopoly for so very long? Was it fair that BoB was given BPOs by a developer? Was it fair that BoB was allowed to keep 8 months worth of proceeds from those BPOs even after it was discovered? EVE isn't about fairness. If it was you'd all be flying the same ships, all systems would be identical, and nothing would be better than anything else. It would be boring stale and die quickly if all things were fair and equal. They should not endeavor to make all things equal and fair. They should not turn off the other 10/10 plexes, nor any other plexes, nor should they turn off the asteroid belts of other regions. There are no plexs in new regions. You knew that before you decide to live there... It's not the question here. The question is: Why the Bob's plexs and not the ra's plexs? The question is: why have CCP closed those plexs without any explains? Lets try to close all the ra/aaa plexs and see what happens thousands petitions incoming i guess
Nova Fox	Posted - 2007.04.19 11:40:00 - [45] Why not require the ship logs that drop off randomly from pirates to be used as keys for the first stage static plexes if they cannot be removed, and possibly make them escalate instead of having thier phases all in one system increasing the and forcing player movement. But that is if they arent going to remove them pernamently. If removed pernamently they need to be reduxed and brought up to par with current exploration sites or better, make them more epic so to say with tiggers and the sort.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.19 11:44:00 - [46] Stop complainign so much. the high end plexes are needed sicne they are the only reason why an aliance would want to expand territory currently. Until we have more natural resources to fight for... they must remain. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.04.19 11:44:00 - [47] Yea, static complexes needs to go. Make them into "unknown" exploration complexes, and give each 0.0 region an equal chance to get them. This way, the best 10/10 complexes will be equally accessible from all regions.
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.04.19 13:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Stop complainign so much. the high end plexes are needed sicne they are the only reason why an aliance would want to expand territory currently. Until we have more natural resources to fight for... they must remain. Not quite true. If an alliance has more 'real estate' this means more opportunity to find exploration sites, and with progression, a higher probability that your progression sites lie within your own backyard (where it should be safe). Even with only exploration sites and no static complexes, there is still enough reason to want to expand territory currently (even when only looking at complexes and sites, there are many other reasons as well). Anyway, more than enough room in 0.0 right now (parts of it are practically deserted). But there's more. With only exploration sites, there is a reason for raiding (small gangs) as well. Picture the high level progression from a site inside your alliance space into your neighbour's. Plenty of reason for action I would say. There are currently only two problems with exploration/progression: 1. A perceived lack of profit for all the work (whether this is true or a result of laziness remains to be seen); and 2. An alternative with a guaranteed profit for less work in the static complexes. I think CCP would do well to do for static complexes what they are planning to do for T2 BPOs: remove them altogether for the alternative. With T2 BPOs that alternative is invention, for static complexes this would be exploration/progression. It's kind of a double whammy, one against T2 BPO fatcats earning billions without any risk or effort, one against complex farming that is so much the cause of inflation and devaluation in EVE. At the moment CCP is still balancing the profit-ratio of the exploration sites but overall it's a win-win situation really! Or do you really think CCP introduced these alternatives because they like to make it difficult on themselves? It will cause a ***storm when CCP comes forward with this, but the good alliances will do what they'll always do: adapt. Bet you BoB's doing that right now. Bartholomeus Crane wants to apologise in advance for this display of common sense on the forums. He'll try not to let it happen again* --
Morrath	Posted - 2007.04.19 14:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane Originally by: Kagura Nikon Stop complainign so much. the high end plexes are needed sicne they are the only reason why an aliance would want to expand territory currently. Until we have more natural resources to fight for... they must remain. Not quite true. If an alliance has more 'real estate' this means more opportunity to find exploration sites, and with progression, a higher probability that your progression sites lie within your own backyard (where it should be safe). Even with only exploration sites and no static complexes, there is still enough reason to want to expand territory currently (even when only looking at complexes and sites, there are many other reasons as well). Anyway, more than enough room in 0.0 right now (parts of it are practically deserted). But there's more. With only exploration sites, there is a reason for raiding (small gangs) as well. Picture the high level progression from a site inside your alliance space into your neighbour's. Plenty of reason for action I would say. There are currently only two problems with exploration/progression: 1. A perceived lack of profit for all the work (whether this is true or a result of laziness remains to be seen); and 2. An alternative with a guaranteed profit for less work in the static complexes. I think CCP would do well to do for static complexes what they are planning to do for T2 BPOs: remove them altogether for the alternative. With T2 BPOs that alternative is invention, for static complexes this would be exploration/progression. It's kind of a double whammy, one against T2 BPO fatcats earning billions without any risk or effort, one against complex farming that is so much the cause of inflation and devaluation in EVE. At the moment CCP is still balancing the profit-ratio of the exploration sites but overall it's a win-win situation really! Or do you really think CCP introduced these alternatives because they like to make it difficult on themselves? It will cause a ***storm when CCP comes forward with this, but the good alliances will do what they'll always do: adapt. Bet you BoB's doing that right now. Bartholomeus Crane wants to apologise in advance for this display of common sense on the forums. He'll try not to let it happen again* Good post. Also, exploration for high end static plexes would make the stronger alliances prove themselves all the more by cooperation from within, by working together to reap the rewards. Everyone within the alliance would have to trust each corp within it to come clean with revealing plex discovery. I know trust is a bad word in EVE, but it would promote cooperation and team effort no? Think about it.
mistress velator velator pie-rat	Posted - 2007.04.19 14:48:00 - [50] Breaking news: 10/10 complexes are NOT the greatest moneymakers ingame. Actually there's something similar that makes pretty much 5-10x more isk on daily basis.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.19 14:57:00 - [51] Edited by: DB Preacher on 19/04/2007 14:53:32 Why exactly is the op complaining about something which they will never have experienced in their life? It's heartening that you care so much about the plexes in Delve but disheartening that you chose to hide behind an alt in order to call for a complete ban on plexes. Don't be too concerned about us, I'm sure we will struggle by until CCP manages to find time to fix them. In the meantime, I hope every other alliance's plexes remain open unless they are bugged. Blanketwide bans for this sort of thing is needless and creates more work than is necessary. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Trollin	Posted - 2007.04.19 15:06:00 - [52] I have to say that it pleases me immensely to see BoD and pets getting owned by CCP. its about time. --------------------------------------------------- A word to the wise ain't necessary, its the stupid ones that need the advice
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.19 15:11:00 - [53] Edited by: DB Preacher on 19/04/2007 15:10:52 Originally by: Trollin I have to say that it pleases me immensely to see BoD and pets getting owned by CCP. its about time. Owned? How did we get "owned"? The plexes were bugged and needed fixed. I'm not sure if the eve community has had a memory wipe in the last 6 months but from the beginning of the game bob members have been some of the most vocal in getting bugs fixed asap. Every bug is found and sent in by petition, we don't announce every bug on the forums because the proper place to relay bugs to CCP is through petition. It's unfortunate that it took a forum post to CCP in order for them to look at this matter, and I sincerely hope that doesn't set the precedence for getting things fixed, but don't confuse that with neglect on ours or fix's behalf because I can assure you it had been reported correctly by both us and fix members from the second it got bugged. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Morrath	Posted - 2007.04.19 18:11:00 - [54] Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 19/04/2007 14:53:32 Why exactly is the op complaining about something which they will never have experienced in their life? It's heartening that you care so much about the plexes in Delve but disheartening that you chose to hide behind an alt in order to call for a complete ban on plexes. Don't be too concerned about us, I'm sure we will struggle by until CCP manages to find time to fix them. In the meantime, I hope every other alliance's plexes remain open unless they are bugged. Blanketwide bans for this sort of thing is needless and creates more work than is necessary. dbp What a crock. I don't mean to get off track here, but Ill suggest this anyway: perhaps there wont be any unfair advantages with complexes (or anything really) when all the developer's in game characters are divided up in-between alliances. I bet "insignificant" little problems like broken spawns get fixed the same day they appear in BoB space, the developers run the alliance after all. This whole thing just stinks big time.
Celestal	Posted - 2007.04.19 18:31:00 - [55] Maybe some of the complexes have been closed because too many people are now aware of , and questioning why , a while back the region with the highest concentration of complexes had their number of plexes boosted by over 50% while a lot of other regions got little or no boost. go on guess whose region got the boost .
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.04.19 18:42:00 - [56] Originally by: Flamothron Weel here it is. Im asking to Close ALL of EVE 10/10 plex while the Blood Raiders plex are getting fixed. It is simply du unfair that alliances that does not occupy blood raider space are able to do tens of billions per day while the ones that occupy Blood raider space aint doing a $h!t because thier 10/10 plex are bugged. Knowing that a 10/10 plex can generate more than 2 Bill/day isk if farmed correctly its not acceptable and mostly not FAIR that ONLY the DELVE, QUERIOUS and PERIOD BASIS 10/10 complex are getting closed. This certainly affects the fairness of the game and also the gamming experiance of an alliance members if the alliance in question can't generate ISK the way ALL alliance does (doing 10/10 plex) So due to a clear unfairness i ask for the closure of all EVE 10/10 plex until the blood raiders 10/10 plex are fixed. Translation: WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ________________________________________________________
Marketcheck2	Posted - 2007.04.19 18:47:00 - [57] A far better idea is just getting rid of high level static complexes all together. They are campable, farmable, exploitable, time zone dependent sources of stupid amounts of isk. There is no need for them in the game right now. Use exploration for them.
Scorched Evil The Silent Rage	Posted - 2007.04.19 22:40:00 - [58] Originally by: Marketcheck2 A far better idea is just getting rid of high level static complexes all together. They are campable, farmable, exploitable, time zone dependent sources of stupid amounts of isk. There is no need for them in the game right now. Use exploration for them. Supported. A Move to exploration sites might put an end to rewarding people for being in the motherland... GMT players by far have a better chance for success in this game if they choose to farm plexes; the life blood of most alliances. I'm not sure if randomizing key drops over different time zones and remove the dependancy on server uptime scrambles to get in first. In any case, good thread. I imagine RA will be in here to thwart any effort to protest their cheating shortly being that they alt run almost every southern complex uncontested....
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.04.19 23:03:00 - [59] Up with Exploration Dynamic Complexes... Down with All Static Complexes... Merc Blog
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.04.20 00:18:00 - [60] Well, I may not be a big fan of BoB or any of their pets, but in this instance, Dark Shikari came out in the open about the bugged complexes when he felt the petition system didn't work (fast enough). FIX seemed to support that, even though they're in a war and have something to lose. To me that puts DS in the good book, along with FIX. BoB, to my knowledge, accepted and supported what happened as well. I think that's positive as well, although I doubt they care much about what I think about it. In comparison I have heard lots and lots of rumours of farming by the opposite camp of farming bugged complexes; although I admit I have not first hand knowledge. So much about politics. In general however, I believe that the reliance of alliances, or corps for that matter, on complexes, is not the way to go. I've already covered the fact that static complexes, and especially farming static complexes, leads to inflation and lazy (and boring) gameplay, so I'll not go into that again. Another thing I was thinking about is that static complexes also lead to a general lock-down of 0.0 as well. Once a corps or alliance has 'conquered' a profitable static complex, it provides them with an surplus of disposable income (in practice, almost unlimited, and for little effort or risk). This can then be used to consolidate that position; effectively locking down that area of space. In part this is a good thing. Corps that are able to conquer parts of space should be reasonably save within it, especially when they're able to hold it for a certain time. On the other hand, this safety shouldn't be a given. New contenders should be able to 'fight themselves in', if they are good enough. Balance, as always is key, and as I see it, static complexes, with their easy money, in the quantities that the high level ones provide, and the ease at which they can be farmed, upset this balance. To me it seems that a well run corps/alliance that captures a number of these complexes and can maintain possession of them for a certain amount of time, is very difficult to conquer. Obviously I think this is wrong. The result of this is that new, small but tightly run, corporations/alliances can not, nay, can never compete, with older corporations. Not because the old corporations are better run, but simply because they've been able to farm complexes for longer. I recognise that this is not the whole story, but I suspect it's an important part of it, and I also happen to believe that this is wrong. I happen to believe that all corporations/alliances should work to maintain their standing and defenses, irrespective of their age or number of farmable complexes. Replacing static complexes with exploration/progression will still benefit corporations with lots of real estate, but, I believe, will also allow for newer contenders to challenge that (think exploration/progression raiding in enemy space for example). If this is the case, this would mean that more players would be able to compete in 0.0, bringing more people out of empire space and into low sec (even if only in transition) and 0.0 space. Which means less available space for those living there (they'd have to make room for the newer corps) but also a more 'target rich environment', which after all, can't be all that bad. Really, I can't see a single reason why, after some balancing by CCP, static complexes should not be replaced by exploration/progression. Just my point of view ofcourse ... not in the least influenced by the fact that I had a pint or more ... --

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