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DX10 already being ported to Windows XP: I was wrong!

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Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.23 15:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2007 15:41:51 I predicted it would take 6 months after Vista release for DX10 to be ported to Windows XP even in a limited format. I underestimated the coders --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.04.23 15:55:00 - [2] ******* win! So by the time I got enough cash for a DX10 capable computer, a fully DX10-ready XP should be available. Hopefully anyway Resistance is Fertile.
lofty29 Athanasius Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:03:00 - [3] Surely this is piracy? MODS! Ban DS plzthnx! --- Originally by: Wild Rho I had high hopes of getting enough parts to make a small Jovian handpuppet once :(
General Xerxes Delta Omega Iota Inc. Breidablik	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2007 15:41:51 I predicted it would take 6 months after Vista release for DX10 to be ported to Windows XP even in a limited format. I underestimated the coders H4x! Sounds cool though and the already tiny number of reasons why I would even think of getting Vista is getting smaller.
Kasak Black The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:19:00 - [5] Carefull DS, The Inquirer isn't known for its accurate reporting.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Kasak Black Carefull DS, The Inquirer isn't known for its accurate reporting. You're thinking of the wrong Inquirer. The Inquirer is generally considered relatively accurate; note even the article I linked gives the news deserved skepticism. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Shalia Ripper Caldari High4Life	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2007 15:41:51 I predicted it would take 6 months after Vista release for DX10 to be ported to Windows XP even in a limited format. I underestimated the coders I expect that M$'s attack lawyers will be visiting a courtroom near this chap shortly.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Shalia Ripper Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2007 15:41:51 I predicted it would take 6 months after Vista release for DX10 to be ported to Windows XP even in a limited format. I underestimated the coders I expect that M$'s attack lawyers will be visiting a courtroom near this chap shortly. Reverse engineering isn't illegal, see WINE for example. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
lofty29 Athanasius Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:50:00 - [9] Yeah, I mean, you dont loose sec status for reverse engineering or anything --- Originally by: Wild Rho I had high hopes of getting enough parts to make a small Jovian handpuppet once :(
Shalia Ripper Caldari High4Life	Posted - 2007.04.23 17:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Shalia Ripper Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 23/04/2007 15:41:51 I predicted it would take 6 months after Vista release for DX10 to be ported to Windows XP even in a limited format. I underestimated the coders I expect that M$'s attack lawyers will be visiting a courtroom near this chap shortly. Reverse engineering isn't illegal, see WINE for example. it doesn't matter if it is illegal, expect M$ to make a fuss. Hell, look at the crap SCO has pulled.
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.04.23 17:59:00 - [11] If he comes out with a dx10 for dx9 hardware running on XP, Vista will die overnight. That or the linux guys are going to get into it and make me very happy indeed. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day
Peter Armstrong Caldari 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.04.23 18:03:00 - [12] ok let me get this straight. run on XP = no need to ungrade to vista? and mean i can walk on station in the patch comes? i just cant be arsed to read it all as i not a computer person ------------------------------------ "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others"
Nyana	Posted - 2007.04.23 18:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Peter Armstrong ok let me get this straight. run on XP = no need to ungrade to vista? and mean i can walk on station in the patch comes? i just cant be arsed to read it all as i not a computer person Walking in stations doesn't require DX10 whatsoever. At least so a dev said on the forums recently.
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.04.23 19:05:00 - [14] Edited by: Benco97 on 23/04/2007 19:02:54 Edit - Dammit, hate. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.23 19:06:00 - [15] I'm NOT surprised that it happened. I AM surprised that someone beat the Wine guys to it --------
Peter Armstrong Caldari 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.04.23 19:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Nyana Originally by: Peter Armstrong ok let me get this straight. run on XP = no need to ungrade to vista? and mean i can walk on station in the patch comes? i just cant be arsed to read it all as i not a computer person Walking in stations doesn't require DX10 whatsoever. At least so a dev said on the forums recently. Oh really? cool well least i know now. Its been a while i was keeping tabs about that. ------------------------------------ "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others"
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.04.23 19:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Lithalnas If he comes out with a dx10 for dx9 hardware running on XP, Vista will die overnight. That or the linux guys are going to get into it and make me very happy indeed. People will buy vista because Microsoft tell them to, you overestimate the consumer -------------------------------------------- Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!! PEW PEW PEW PEW!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.23 19:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Mtthias Clemi Originally by: Lithalnas If he comes out with a dx10 for dx9 hardware running on XP, Vista will die overnight. That or the linux guys are going to get into it and make me very happy indeed. People will buy vista because Microsoft tell them to, you overestimate the consumer Incorrect. They did a survey and 88% of Windows users said that they were not planning to upgrade to Vista in the next year. The only copies of Vista selling are coming with new machines, and even Dell was forced by their userbase to start selling Windows XP on their computers again. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.04.23 20:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Mtthias Clemi Originally by: Lithalnas If he comes out with a dx10 for dx9 hardware running on XP, Vista will die overnight. That or the linux guys are going to get into it and make me very happy indeed. People will buy vista because Microsoft tell them to, you overestimate the consumer Incorrect. They did a survey and 88% of Windows users said that they were not planning to upgrade to Vista in the next year. The only copies of Vista selling are coming with new machines, and even Dell was forced by their userbase to start selling Windows XP on their computers again. I didn't say they would buy it now, and the copies with new computers are what matters anyway. -------------------------------------------- Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!! PEW PEW PEW PEW!
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.23 21:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Mtthias Clemi Originally by: Lithalnas If he comes out with a dx10 for dx9 hardware running on XP, Vista will die overnight. That or the linux guys are going to get into it and make me very happy indeed. People will buy vista because Microsoft tell them to, you overestimate the consumer Incorrect. They did a survey and 88% of Windows users said that they were not planning to upgrade to Vista in the next year. The only copies of Vista selling are coming with new machines, and even Dell was forced by their userbase to start selling Windows XP on their computers again. Same thing happened with XP though IIRC. People waited a while to upgrade because the initial version was full of security holes and bugs. Better wait a bit until it gets patched up properly so it actually works. Dell will probably switch over soon enough too. -----
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.23 21:52:00 - [21] Originally by: James Snowscoran Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Mtthias Clemi Originally by: Lithalnas If he comes out with a dx10 for dx9 hardware running on XP, Vista will die overnight. That or the linux guys are going to get into it and make me very happy indeed. People will buy vista because Microsoft tell them to, you overestimate the consumer Incorrect. They did a survey and 88% of Windows users said that they were not planning to upgrade to Vista in the next year. The only copies of Vista selling are coming with new machines, and even Dell was forced by their userbase to start selling Windows XP on their computers again. Same thing happened with XP though IIRC. People waited a while to upgrade because the initial version was full of security holes and bugs. Better wait a bit until it gets patched up properly so it actually works. Dell will probably switch over soon enough too. Read what I wrote again. The opposite happened. Dell instantly switched to Vista, but the outpouring of user complaints was so great that they were forced to put XP back as an option. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.23 21:58:00 - [22] Originally by: James Snowscoran Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Mtthias Clemi Originally by: Lithalnas If he comes out with a dx10 for dx9 hardware running on XP, Vista will die overnight. That or the linux guys are going to get into it and make me very happy indeed. People will buy vista because Microsoft tell them to, you overestimate the consumer Incorrect. They did a survey and 88% of Windows users said that they were not planning to upgrade to Vista in the next year. The only copies of Vista selling are coming with new machines, and even Dell was forced by their userbase to start selling Windows XP on their computers again. Same thing happened with XP though IIRC. People waited a while to upgrade because the initial version was full of security holes and bugs. Better wait a bit until it gets patched up properly so it actually works. Dell will probably switch over soon enough too. Incidentally, same thing happened with Windows ME. And look what happened to THAT. They ended up retiring the whole OS tree. Just because XP pulled through, doesn't mean they all pull through....... And you've gotta remember, XP marked a big step forward in technology over W2K, so there was a lot of incentive to switch. Microsoft knew that, which is why they pulled their DX10 stunt- and if DX10 becomes a non-issue, what have they got left? Just a buggy, insecure, resource hogging, DRM infested, overpriced version of XP. --------
mamolian Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.24 08:11:00 - [23] Nice.. Vista with the graphical bells n whistles turned on was using almost a gig of ram, untill I turned all that ****e off.. Its similar to XP now.. But we'll see, may switch back to XP if that DX10 port is reliable. -------------------------------
Brolly Caldari Morphic field	Posted - 2007.04.24 08:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Dark Shikari The only copies of Vista selling are coming with new machines, and even Dell was forced by their userbase to start selling Windows XP on their computers again. lol, does'nt suprise me, the amount of people I have known to have problems with vista, both personal friends and customers is quite apalling. Would'nt be so bad if certain PC makers actually put some deccent documantation in the box with the PC
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 09:02:00 - [25] I can see this getting nasty if it turns out to be true and the DX10 is stable in XP. Microsoft will fight this by updating DX10 with ever increasing and pointless additions DX10a...DX10e I seem to remember microsoft stating that this is what they have intended to do with DX10 and that the first update is due later this year. Thats all well and good. DX9c was luverly. But im betting that they may cram in little extras to make it harder and harder for it to be ported to XP. The last thing i want for my machine is for DX10 the mediator for all my gaming joy to become a battle ground. Time will tell, either way im not to worried, it wont be long before some industrious fellow makes VistaLite(tm that hacks and strips all the gubbins from VistaFat(tm) Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Khalm Amarr Financial Removal	Posted - 2007.04.24 09:12:00 - [26] Edited by: Khalm on 24/04/2007 09:08:26 I wont believe this until I see some real tests ran with real games.
Vegetto Ichikai Caldari Point-Zero	Posted - 2007.04.24 09:15:00 - [27] Sod this merry-go-round, i'm going to try that Ubuntu Linux cack. I'm not as much of a gamer as i used to be, purely online, mainly MMO's now, so compatibility issues aren't so serious for me now. Also, the security is still mega dodgy on Windows XP, dunno what it's like on linux, but it's like windows was designed to be a pretty face, but nothing underneath.
Flash Landsraad STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.24 11:20:00 - [28] I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally). Yes it's a pain in the backside that DX10 was only released for Vista but that's business. At the end of the day MS are there to make money and I'd be doing exactly the same thing in MS's shoes, so I am sure would most other people with an ounce profit yearning. Businesses aren't lovey dovey organisations put in place to please people, they are created out of a want for profit and that is what they aim for. People can shout 'corrupt microsoft! corrupt microsoft!' all day but I really do not see how maximising profit is corrupt, especially since the whole of Western society is grounded on capitalist ideals. People don't just give away groundbreaking new technology for free by adding it to already existing OSs. Fair play to that coder though, must have taken some doing. Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 12:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Flash Landsraad I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally). Uh, I'd say exactly the opposite. If you slag off on Ford but you drive a Honda, your words are meaningless. If you've driven a Ford for 7 years and its been the worst car you've ever used, constantly breaking, and is a complete lemon, your words are definitely meaningful. We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 13:20:00 - [30] Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 13:19:13 Originally by: Dark Shikari Stuff about cars Personally (and I know im not alone) I haven't given a single penny to Microsoft. I do not feel like I have a right to complain about the software that I use every day for free. I dont think I have a right to complain about the Operating systems we have today due to Microsoft's dominance of the market. In fact I think we take Microsoft for granted, they have done alot for us since home computing became a reality. I enjoy my games, movies, tv shows, internet and myriad of software all on Microsofts OS. I do not see a fault with it. Compared to Windows98, XP is a godsend. Will Vista be the same in a few years time. Maybeez yes maybeez no. In the meantime im going to enjoy my games on whatever OS is the easiest to use, most widly available and has no compatibility problems. When another OS usurps XP from that throne, be it Vista or otherwise I will gladly jump ship. We will all be using Microsoft products for the forseeable future, so I wont pour scorn at Microsoft. I can hardly blame them for being a big company wanting more money. There isn't another company in this world who wouldn't be the same had they been in Microsfot's position. Instead im more inclined to look at all the other OS providers and ask them to get there fingers out. Do you want to see Microsoft stand up and take notice? Do you want OS updates to offer much more? Do you want the providers to listen to the consumers? Then you will have to look at Microsofts competitors, they will have to become a serious threat to Microsofts dominance before any of that is likely. _______________ p.s. Dark your sig. "Dancing to the tune of the drums of war" Made me laugh but you should alter it more to the original Perfect Circle's i.e. "Dancing to the rythme of the war drums" less tongue twistery! Executioner Model Blackbird Model
alesta NeoTech Incorporated Expeto Libertas Foedus	Posted - 2007.04.24 13:20:00 - [31] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Flash Landsraad I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally). Uh, I'd say exactly the opposite. If you slag off on Ford but you drive a Honda, your words are meaningless. If you've driven a Ford for 7 years and its been the worst car you've ever used, constantly breaking, and is a complete lemon, your words are definitely meaningful. We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products. *pets his ford....its ok baby.... dont let that bad man get to you............i love my ford...thunderbirds FTW............. NeoTech Incorporated
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.24 13:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Flash Landsraad I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally). Originally by: Ealiom Instead im more inclined to look at all the other OS providers and ask them to get there fingers out. Do you want to see Microsoft stand up and take notice? Do you want OS updates to offer much more? Do you want the providers to listen to the consumers? Then you will have to look at Microsofts competitors, they will have to become a serious threat to Microsofts dominance before any of that is likely. I use XP for only 2 reasons: games and AutoCad. Fact is, I like to be able to run AutoCad in smooth and native mode, without the hassle of emulation. And it's great to be able to buy a game and just play it bug free, without waiting 6 months for a working version to be handled. Does this mean I think that XP is more secure, say, than Linux? Or that I find the user interface better in XP? Or that I think it is less buggy? No. The sole reason that Windows remains dominant is compatibility- it has not a single other thing in it's favour. And unfortunately, its the one thing that other OS's really can't fix. Ealiom says that other OS's need to get their fingers out- the thing is, they already have. Few people would claim Windows is significantly technologically advanced above Mac, say. Mac already has closed that gap. And unfortunately, theres nothing Apple can do about the fact that AutoCad is written only in a Windows format- no amount of finger-pulling will change it. The best any rival OS's can do is work on emulation, dual booting, and compatibility layers. And they're all doing pretty well in that direction- the fact that 90% of modern Windows games can be played in Wine is one less reason for some people to use windows. The thing I get fed up with is the "Microsoft is invincible" crowd. They're a mix of pessimists, fanbois', and armchair specialists who, no matter what*****-ups Microsoft make, or what advances their rivals make, will still decry that things will never (indeed, can never) change. The fact is people only stick with Microsoft because its easier than not. If another OS can become just as "easy", then standard market mechanics will take over- and Windows certainly doesn't have value for money on it's side. --------
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 13:47:00 - [33] Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 13:54:45 Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 13:44:45 Originally by: Patch86 I use XP for only 2 reasons: games and AutoCad. Autocad user myself mate. Architectural Technician / modeller Originally by: Patch86 The sole reason that Windows remains dominant is compatibility- it has not a single other thing in it's favour. And unfortunately, its the one thing that other OS's really can't fix. Ealiom says that other OS's need to get their fingers out- the thing is, they already have. Few people would claim Windows is significantly technologically advanced above Mac, say. Mac already has closed that gap. And unfortunately, theres nothing Apple can do about the fact that AutoCad is written only in a Windows format- no amount of finger-pulling will change it. The best any rival OS's can do is work on emulation, dual booting, and compatibility layers. And they're all doing pretty well in that direction- the fact that 90% of modern Windows games can be played in Wine is one less reason for some people to use windows. What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out. I believe recently there has been calls for Microsoft to make its OS open sourced so as to break there monopoly. Something they are obviously fighting. Someone will be able to tell me wether its been through the courts yet. This potentially would be the best solution. All OS developers would have access to a foundation that all PC users take for granted, and would be able to develop there own unique OS. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 13:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Ealiom What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out. You think they're not? Novell has been pushing out some parodies of the "Mac and PC" ads to add Linux (a cute chick, contrasting with the geeky Mac/PC guys). You can find them on Youtube. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Flash Landsraad STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:02:00 - [35] Originally by: Dark Shikari We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products. That is true however not what I was getting at. If MS OSs are so rubbish then why don't people switch? Ease of use is the key word here. People don't want to mess around installing community made OSs that wont run their programs without emulation anyway and most of the PC buying market probably wouldn't know how to do this in the first place anyway. It is the fact that OSs such as Wine are free which is keeping them from being a direct threat to microsoft. If people started selling them and investing more time into making them better then they may start to become more mainstream. When that happens companies have to start designing software to be compatible with them and then they become a threat to microsoft. Yes Linux is fully customisable, yes it has better security than Windows, but: at the moment, the average PC user wants to buy a pc, go home, plug some wires in, turn it on and have it work out of the box. Windows provides this without software compatibility errors and other such frivalties. Until free OSs do the same nothing will change. I don't know about anyone else but I've been using XP since it first came out and I have never had any security issues with it whatsoever. And no my PC is not full of spyware, adware and viruses, I check regularly. Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:03:00 - [36] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ealiom What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out. You think they're not? Novell has been pushing out some parodies of the "Mac and PC" ads to add Linux (a cute chick, contrasting with the geeky Mac/PC guys). You can find them on Youtube. lol yeah saw them and while funny - most users are watching it on a windows machine. They laugh they giggle and then load up one of there games for some fun. They dont care, or if they do its more of a distant hyprocritical [shaking fist] "Damn you Microsoft cos you so evil" double clicks game icon. Quirky adverts aint gonna topple Microsoft. In all probability it will likely be either Microsoft themselves that topple the company, or some sort of court ruling (see above posts late edit) Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:06:00 - [37] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:03:38 Originally by: Flash Landsraad That is true however not what I was getting at. If MS OSs are so rubbish then why don't people switch? Because Microsoft is an abusive monopoly. Originally by: Flash Landsraad Ease of use is the key word here. People don't want to mess around installing community made OSs that wont run their programs without emulation anyway and most of the PC buying market probably wouldn't know how to do this in the first place anyway. Ubuntu is much, much easier to install and use than Windows XP, by an order of magnitude. Originally by: Flash Landsraad It is the fact that OSs such as Wine are free which is keeping them from being a direct threat to microsoft. If people started selling them and investing more time into making them better then they may start to become more mainstream. When that happens companies have to start designing software to be compatible with them and then they become a threat to microsoft. Wrong. Heard of Cedega? They spent millions of dollars developing that from WINE and WINE has basically surpassed it even though Cedega isn't free! Originally by: Flash Landsraad Yes Linux is fully customisable, yes it has better security than Windows, but: at the moment, the average PC user wants to buy a pc, go home, plug some wires in, turn it on and have it work out of the box. Windows provides this without software compatibility errors and other such frivalties. Until free OSs do the same nothing will change. Windows does not work out of the box, ever. The only reason it does is because Dell, etc fix it up for the users before they get the computer. If you reinstall Windows it hardly gets a quarter of the drivers you need installed automatically. Ubuntu gets at lesat 90%+. It works out of the box. Windows does not. Originally by: Flash Landsraad I don't know about anyone else but I've been using XP since it first came out and I have never had any security issues with it whatsoever. And no my PC is not full of spyware, adware and viruses, I check regularly. You're one of the 1% minority. 90% of the world has computers that are slow as crap because they're zombie machines covered with spyware. Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ealiom What I mean is that the competitors will have to start marketing amongst other things. Theres no way they can just materialize in everyones homes and businesses overnight. But what they can do is make themselves more and more attractive to home and business users and indeed software developers. They will have to offer something that Microsoft hasn't etc. Its the only way you will see Microsoft's dominace wane and a healthy competition break out. You think they're not? Novell has been pushing out some parodies of the "Mac and PC" ads to add Linux (a cute chick, contrasting with the geeky Mac/PC guys). You can find them on Youtube. lol yeah saw them and while funny - most users are watching it on a windows machine. They laugh they giggle and then load up one of there games for some fun. They dont care, or if they do its more of a distant hyprocritical [shaking fist] "Damn you Microsoft cos you so evil" double clicks game icon. Quirky adverts aint gonna topple Microsoft. In all probability it will likely be either Microsoft themselves that topple the company, or some sort of court ruling (see above posts late edit) Microsoft has proven in the past that they are above the law. No legal methods can be used to take down a company that completely ignores the rule of law, either through abuse of the legal system or simply ignoring court orders and rulings. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Flash Landsraad STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:08:00 - [38] Originally by: Ealiom I believe recently there has been calls for Microsoft to make its OS open sourced so as to break there monopoly. Something they are obviously fighting. Someone will be able to tell me wether its been through the courts yet. This potentially would be the best solution. All OS developers would have access to a foundation that all PC users take for granted, and would be able to develop there own unique OS. See whether I have to pay money for Microsoft OSs or not this is something I fundamentally disagree with. It goes against every kind of property law in existence. Microsoft design their OSs, sure Windows wasn't designed from scratch but if you follow down the line the original was. Why should other companies be allowed to rip microsoft OS source to make their own and start making profit from it if they can't even be bothered to develop their own from the ground up in the first place? That's like you designing a game, me taking that said game code free of charge, adding a single feature to it and then undercutting your prices for more functionality and still making profit because I didn't pay for it in the first place. Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash
Flash Landsraad STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Flash Landsraad on 24/04/2007 14:08:17 Originally by: Dark Shikari Windows does not work out of the box, ever. The only reason it does is because Dell, etc fix it up for the users before they get the computer. If you reinstall Windows it hardly gets a quarter of the drivers you need installed automatically. Ubuntu gets at lesat 90%+. It works out of the box. Windows does not. I recently built a new PC, installed my old XP with combined service pack 2 disc, it is working perfectly and fast with generic XP drivers and I have done nothing to it. Obviously I then installed hardware specific drivers of my own, but it was working fine without them. Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Dark Shikari Ubuntu is much, much easier to install and use than Windows XP, by an order of magnitude. If so why isn't anyone using it, Im not ashamed to admit that ive never heard of it. Originally by: Dark Shikari You're one of the 1% minority. 90% of the world has computers that are slow as crap because they're zombie machines covered with spyware. I'll back him up on that one. Ive been running my machine with only the windows firewall and no background virus checker now since getting XP. Other than running Ad-Aware, which is only good housekeeping anyway I have had no problems. As for Microsoft constantly laughing in the face of the law. Well that can easily change when some hard ass gets the power. Fines are not going to stop microsoft that been proven already. Cost of ignoring the law = fine of $500million cost of following the law = billion in lost revenue. Hmmm i'll take the fine please. The minute they begin attacking Microsofts assets i.e. trade restrictions. You will see Microsoft get scared. No one has had the balls to do that yet though, I can imagine it happening one day though. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:22:00 - [41] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:18:41 Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Dark Shikari Ubuntu is much, much easier to install and use than Windows XP, by an order of magnitude. If so why isn't anyone using it, Im not ashamed to admit that ive never heard of it. People are using it. It started with the geeks. But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it. Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows. Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines. And slowly but surely, it is replacing Windows. Originally by: Flash Landsraad Edited by: Flash Landsraad on 24/04/2007 14:08:17 Originally by: Dark Shikari Windows does not work out of the box, ever. The only reason it does is because Dell, etc fix it up for the users before they get the computer. If you reinstall Windows it hardly gets a quarter of the drivers you need installed automatically. Ubuntu gets at lesat 90%+. It works out of the box. Windows does not. I recently built a new PC, installed my old XP with combined service pack 2 disc, it is working perfectly and fast with generic XP drivers and I have done nothing to it. Obviously I then installed hardware specific drivers of my own, but it was working fine without them. I reinstalled XP on my laptop. Graphics drivers didn't work. Ethernet didn't work, nor did wireless, so I had to burn the drivers to a CD to get them to work. Mouse didn't work, only the touchpad. Sound didn't work. Ubuntu worked with all of the above out of the box without any tweaking or extra drivers. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:26:00 - [42] Originally by: Flash Landsraad this is something I fundamentally disagree with. It goes against every kind of property law in existence. Hmm but there are also laws in place to prevent (supposedly) monopoly's. Fair trade and all that. Microsoft have been taken to court year in year out for there aggressive squashin of any fledgling company who dared to raise there heads above the sand. I can't really blame them for doing so, but the situation is pretty much you get what Microsoft gives you. Things 'could' be much better. Im sure some sort of agreement would be reached if Microsft were forced to share there OS's seaquets. i.e. a portion of the companies profits. I dont know point is that ive heard thats what they have been trying to do last i heard. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:34:00 - [43] Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 14:32:55 Originally by: Dark Shikari It started with the geeks. But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it. Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows. Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines. Sorry Dark but that reaks of wishful thinking. Im no slouch in the tech department. I keep up to date as much I can on as much as I can and I've never heard of it. If I dont have enough time to know something computer related upside down and back to front, I at least get familar with it. I will no doubt look, but I remain unconvinced by this claim. As for Dell looking into making it an option. I seriously doubt it. Originally by: Dark Shikari And slowly but surely, it is replacing Windows it must be moving helluva slow I'll look into this myself but every fibre in my body is chortling 'yeah right' at the moment. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:45:00 - [44] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:41:18 Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Dark Shikari It started with the geeks. But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it. Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows. Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines. Sorry Dark but that reaks of wishful thinking. Im no slouch in the tech department. I keep up to date as i can on as much as i can. Ive never heard of it, I will no doubt look, but i remain unconvinced by this claim. As for Dell looking into making it an option. I seriously doubt it. It appears you have not been paying attention. Dell has been opening to the option of providing Linux on their machines due to widespread complaints by both business and home users. They held a poll and discussion online on various options where people discussed which Dell should use. They seem to be leaning towards Ubuntu, as its by far the most average-user-friendly option. It is not easy to unseat a massive abusive cartel. But it will eventually happen, and the hundreds of thousands of Ubuntu CDs shipping across the world are just one step towards it. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:47:00 - [45] I tried Ubuntu about 2 or 3 years ago out of curiousity and was impressed. My previous experience with Linux (while at Uni about 6 years ago) had been FreeBSD, SuSE and Red Hat (all of which I found far too complicated). The thing that struck me most about Ubuntu was that it didn't feel like Linux. It didn't have that scary Linux complexity that frightens off lazy Windows users. Suffice it to say that I never really got into Ubuntu because all my software is Windows based and I'm a lazy Windows user like I mentioned above. I plug a disc in and it works. I didn't care how or why. But then Vista came along and I started to read about DRM and even tried it out for myself. It's nice looking but (like a good looking female) is high maintenance and demanding. I'm seriously thinking about going back to using Ubuntu and figuring out how to use WINE. If Vista is the future, then Mr Gates can kiss my dog's butt. ---------- Originally by: Valorem snip Please be civil - Valorem Awwww, I was roleplaying a misanthropist.
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:52:00 - [46] Oh, and DS is right about Dell. I read it on the BBC News website. Apparently they've had over 11,000 complaints from their users asking them to offer the option of having XP pre-installed on new machines. Microsoft have tried to play this down by saying that it was only a small number of Dell customers who asked for this. But 11,000 kinda speaks for itself. Sorry I don't have a linky, but it was on the BBC News website about a week or so ago. ---------- Originally by: Valorem snip Please be civil - Valorem Awwww, I was roleplaying a misanthropist.
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:53:00 - [47] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 14:41:18 Originally by: Ealiom Originally by: Dark Shikari It started with the geeks. But then it spread. Now the tech-savvy non-geeks are using it. Now people are installing it for their grandmothers who can't figure out how to use Windows. Dell is considering adding it as an OS option on their machines. Sorry Dark but that reaks of wishful thinking. Im no slouch in the tech department. I keep up to date as i can on as much as i can. Ive never heard of it, I will no doubt look, but i remain unconvinced by this claim. As for Dell looking into making it an option. I seriously doubt it. It appears you have not been paying attention. Dell has been opening to the option of providing Linux on their machines due to widespread complaints by both business and home users. They held a poll and discussion online on various options where people discussed which Dell should use. They seem to be leaning towards Ubuntu, as its by far the most average-user-friendly option. It is not easy to unseat a massive abusive cartel. But it will eventually happen, and the hundreds of thousands of Ubuntu CDs shipping across the world are just one step towards it. I do hope your right, that we will see some competition for Microsoft but I wonder. All the odds are against ubuntu (nice meaning btw) and will they find it easy to convince mass businesses and Joe Average. My previous comments are a reaction to your possitively bubbly enthusiasm and conviction. As if Ubuntu were already in everyones homes. You are right it is not easy. I wish them well but i can see it going the way just about every other version of linux has went. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:57:00 - [48] Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 14:58:12 Originally by: Miss Anthropy Oh, and DS is right about Dell. I read it on the BBC News website. Apparently they've had over 11,000 complaints from their users asking them to offer the option of having XP pre-installed on new machines. Microsoft have tried to play this down by saying that it was only a small number of Dell customers who asked for this. But 11,000 kinda speaks for itself. Sorry I don't have a linky, but it was on the BBC News website about a week or so ago. Yeah thats people demanding XP over Vista for an OS option not Ubuntu over XP and Vista. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 15:08:00 - [49] Originally by: Ealiom Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 14:58:12 Originally by: Miss Anthropy Oh, and DS is right about Dell. I read it on the BBC News website. Apparently they've had over 11,000 complaints from their users asking them to offer the option of having XP pre-installed on new machines. Microsoft have tried to play this down by saying that it was only a small number of Dell customers who asked for this. But 11,000 kinda speaks for itself. Sorry I don't have a linky, but it was on the BBC News website about a week or so ago. Yeah thats people demanding XP over Vista for an OS option not Ubuntu over XP and Vista. Yeah that's a separate issue. The Linux option came before the recent XP news. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.04.24 15:11:00 - [50] Originally by: Ealiom stuff... You are right it is not easy. I wish them well but i can see it going the way just about every other version of linux has went. SuSE is still going after about 10 years. Red Hat is going strong under a new name. FreeBSD is still widely used in Universities (although it's technically not Linux). Ubuntu has been around for over 5 years. There are also other linux distributions that are still going strong. Debian, Mandrake/Mandriva, etc. So you're slightly wrong about your pessimistic outlook there. I'm not a linux user but have been aware of it's existence for years and continue to look at news on the various distributions I've tried out. ---------- Originally by: Valorem snip Please be civil - Valorem Awwww, I was roleplaying a misanthropist.
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 15:26:00 - [51] Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 15:23:16 Originally by: Ealiom You are right it is not easy. I wish them well but i can see it going the way just about every other version of linux has went. Originally by: Miss Anthropy So you're slightly wrong about your pessimistic outlook there. By that I mean not mass market / threat to Microsoft's dominance. I don't mean to imply they have crumbled to dust and don't exist anymore. Just that in order to force change they need to do more than they have done (which isn't easy) Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Frezik Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.24 16:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Flash Landsraad I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally). . . . Businesses aren't lovey dovey organisations put in place to please people, they are created out of a want for profit and that is what they aim for. People can shout 'corrupt microsoft! corrupt microsoft!' all day but I really do not see how maximising profit is corrupt, especially since the whole of Western society is grounded on capitalist ideals. A monopoly is an example of market failure, i.e., the "invisible hand" of the market is no longer driving price and choices. The standard capitalist statement of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" no longer works because you are forced to buy it for many practical reasons. Even downloading Windows illegally takes a time investment (time = money, remember), so it's not like you're not buying it that way. You're just buying it in a way that Microsoft doesn't get any revenue out of it. For almost any given task, there is an equal or better way to do it that doesn't involve Microsoft. There are several word processors that are better than Office. E-mail and web browsing can be handled by any modern computer with less risk of malware compared to Windows. Gaming can be done more cheaply on consoles (with reservations, of course). But for all those tasks, people end up buying a Microsoft solution, anyway. This is simply because they are often not presented with a choice, and don't have the time, inclination, or ability to make a more informed choice. Windows is what is sold by HP and Dell, so that's what people buy. We don't owe Microsoft anything for this. We've already given them too much, IMHO. If Microsoft hadn't helped bring the PC into everyone's home, somebody else would have. There were a lot of players trying to do the same thing from the '80s and into the '90s, and most of them would have done a better job than Microsoft if they had the chance. Both DOS and early Windows were laughably inferior to similar packages of the time. But the deals Microsoft (such as with IBM) as well as solid marketing put them up at the "best" solution in the minds of customers, regardless of technical merits. I'd love to live a Microsoft-free existence. I already rely significantly less on Microsoft than I did two years ago. But I only got here by conscious effort that most people are not wiling to make, and I still can't rid Microsoft from my house completely. In short, your statements may have merit if we weren't forced to use Microsoft by many outside factors. The fact is that we are, so we are justified in complaining even while using their products.
Buxaroo Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.04.24 16:37:00 - [53] Edited by: Buxaroo on 24/04/2007 16:35:12 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Flash Landsraad I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally). Uh, I'd say exactly the opposite. If you slag off on Ford but you drive a Honda, your words are meaningless. If you've driven a Ford for 7 years and its been the worst car you've ever used, constantly breaking, and is a complete lemon, your words are definitely meaningful. We gain the right to slag off on Microsoft by using their products. Well put. I am no M$ fan whatsoever. I despise them. XP was and is the only good OS they have made. W2K seems to have been a hit back in the day for servers etc but I am talking about personal OS and not servers. I think the main mistake M$ made was trying to make Vista run on older hardware. That is the main problem with Vista: too much gunk. And if they can make DX10 run on Linux or XP, well Vista is gonna tank and rightfully so. With DS's thread about Ubuntu (crap keep forgetting how to spell it) and all these workarounds and abilities to run programs I use all the time like Teamspeak etc, Winblows is going to a seperate 50 gig partition only for those programs I can't YET run on Linux. I was looking for an excuse to get back into linux, I guess the tides are turning in that favor for me "No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.24 16:38:00 - [54] Edited by: Ealiom on 24/04/2007 16:35:46 Originally by: Frezik Check out ma fanci rit'in Ive got a report to write this week, could you do it for me Well written, all good points, except. I have an issue about your assertion that any other company could have did a better job. I believe that in the early years it actually benefitted home users new to the whole home computing thing to have Microsoft brutally monopolizing the computer market. Rather than have several options available to usthey had one and it was forced upon them. It helped calm down something that could have potentially been a bloody great headache. present day its a different story PC's are everywhere and we need choice. anyways, well put though and about this report i need done....... Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Frezik Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.24 17:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Ealiom I believe that in the early years it actually benefitted home users new to the whole home computing thing to have Microsoft brutally monopolizing the computer market. Rather than have several options available to usthey had one and it was forced upon them. It helped calm down something that could have potentially been a bloody great headache. There is merit to the idea that the OS market will naturally tend twards a monopoly, since it's easier for software vendors and customer services to support one OS rather than many. It may well be that whoever else would have helped get a PC into every home would have also ended up a monopoly. However, that group probably would have started with a virtual memory model that wasn't a sick joke (or, in comparison to DOS, any virtual memory model) and gone up from there.
Doubles Vendor	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:01:00 - [56] I feel like I'm in a Linux support group. Lets all hold hands and sing about how much we all hate M$. ha ha
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:19:00 - [57] I love the way you all think that when Microsoft falls all the people making different versions of Linux and other OSs will hold hands and sing. It'll happen again and the hate will turn towards the most successful and the cycle will continue. This "OMG I must get microsoft out of my house" nonsense is ridiculous. Oh but the other OSs are nothing like Microsoft, they don't want money, they want world peace... yeah.. right.. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:21:00 - [58] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/04/2007 18:21:54 Originally by: Benco97 I love the way you all think that when Microsoft falls all the people making different versions of Linux and other OSs will hold hands and sing. It'll happen again and the hate will turn towards the most successful and the cycle will continue. This "OMG I must get microsoft out of my house" nonsense is ridiculous. Oh but the other OSs are nothing like Microsoft, they don't want money, they want world peace... yeah.. right.. I know you're a Microsoft shill, but such an argument is pure nonsense when talking about an open source operating system. That kind of bullcrap is just what Microsoft wants you to believe. Its called Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD). It was pioneered by IBM in the pre-Microsoft days, and now Microsoft is king of it. With an open source operating system, anyone can choose to do what they want and still be perfectly compatible with other open source operating systems. That is not possible with a proprietary operating system like Windows; in fact, it is you intentional by Microsoft; they don't want you using their competitor's products, so they use their monopoly to lock you out of them. This is why they are being fined billions of dollars a year in Europe. I'll give you a direct example, though not operating system-related. If I want to open an OpenDocument file with my own program, its really easy: its XML, and the specification is entirely public. If I want to open a Word Document, I have to spend months reverse engineering the format and praying. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:27:00 - [59] Edited by: Benco97 on 24/04/2007 18:26:03 Where does the money go? After Microsoft falls where does the money go? By which I mean, what OS will make the most sales? They'll be the new enemy. THAT has nothing to do with OSs, it's humans. They always want more money and the people with the most money are the enemy. I dont' want to argue with you DS, you're a great guy and smart, very smart. You know more about both windows and linux than I know about windows, i'm just saying, irrespective of who's at the top there will be hate and this cycle will not stop until there ISN'T anyone at the top, unfortunately there will always be the most popular or the leader. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:27:00 - [60] Hmm, DX10 coming to XP.... Yay! :) DX10's design intention purely to force current XP users to Vista... Booo. Typical MS business plan. Glad I've never paid for a MS product since DOS 6.22 LOL They don't deserve my ISK, and their product still runs fine without MS getting a cent.
4rc4ng3L Gallente Blood Stained Angels	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:31:00 - [61] It annoys me having to listen to you all ***ing about Vista. Why do they restrict DX10 to Vista, cos it makes perfect business sense to do so. Microsoft are still a company that needs to turn a profit. If any of you 'mature' people posting ran the company you would do the exact same in order to keep your company alive. Then, you come on bithing about how your being made get Vista. Over reacting anyone! Not a single person is forcing you to get Vista. DX10 will be ported to XP, thats a given. So then your left with no other reason to come on here moaning bar the fact that they are not making it the way YOU want. So if you dont want it....just dont get it. Grow up girls..... p.s. No i dont work for microsoft Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...**
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:43:00 - [62] Originally by: 4rc4ng3L It annoys me having to listen to you all *****ing about Vista. Why do they restrict DX10 to Vista, cos it makes perfect business sense to do so. Microsoft are still a company that needs to turn a profit. "Turning a profit" is not synonymous with "producing crappy products" and "farking over your customers." Microsoft is by definition an abusive monopoly because they can successfully sell products that are anti-consumer. If they allowed valid competitors, Microsoft would not exist. --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
4rc4ng3L Gallente Blood Stained Angels	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:46:00 - [63] Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 24/04/2007 18:52:00 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: 4rc4ng3L It annoys me having to listen to you all ***ing about Vista. Why do they restrict DX10 to Vista, cos it makes perfect business sense to do so. Microsoft are still a company that needs to turn a profit. "Turning a profit" is not synonymous with "producing crappy products" and "farking over your customers." Microsoft is by definition an abusive monopoly because they can successfully sell products that are anti-consumer. If they allowed valid competitors, Microsoft would not exist. Regardless.... they are an intelligent company that knows its market better than anyone else. They have no respect for their customers, they care about the survival of the company above all else. They are.... a successful business! Im not defending the company or its products, im defending their stratagy. Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...**
oDDiTy V2 Epic.	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:51:00 - [64] XP works just fine for me, and it sounds promising that DX10 will be ported to XP. What I dislike about the whole Microsoft vs. Open Source argument is the mentality that seems to come along with a lot of the people who are using Linux (or whatever open source OS you're using) in that they seem to think they are sticking it to the man or whatever by using an open source system. That makes me laugh. Personally I'd take Vista over any *nix OS any day, but thats mostly a matter of preference.
Ticondrius Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:57:00 - [65] I'm dreeeeeaming of an OpenGL EVEning...just like the ones we always wanted! OPEN SOURCE APIs CCP! Is it THAT hard?!?! OpenGL OpenAL SDL Need I go on...? Not using them is the only reason they're not advancing like they should have, forcing us to fork over tons of moeny to Microsoft to keep feeding us crap. I mean, GOOD LORD, $350 for Vista Home Premium? And I used to complain about $89 for the UPGRADE versions of Win98. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- RABBLE! RABBLERABBLE!! MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:06:00 - [66] Originally by: oDDiTy V2 What I dislike about the whole Microsoft vs. Open Source argument is the mentality that seems to come along with a lot of the people who are using Linux (or whatever open source OS you're using) in that they seem to think they are sticking it to the man or whatever by using an open source system. That makes me laugh. How is someone not sticking it to Microsoft by refusing to pay for their bloated piece of crap? Your logic is... weird --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio
oDDiTy V2 Epic.	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:21:00 - [67] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: oDDiTy V2 What I dislike about the whole Microsoft vs. Open Source argument is the mentality that seems to come along with a lot of the people who are using Linux (or whatever open source OS you're using) in that they seem to think they are sticking it to the man or whatever by using an open source system. That makes me laugh. How is someone not sticking it to Microsoft by refusing to pay for their bloated piece of crap? Your logic is... weird My logic involves twisted combinations of alpha helices, fairies, and assorted pieces of chewed bubblegum. It should not be questioned.
Flash Landsraad STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:36:00 - [68] Edited by: Flash Landsraad on 24/04/2007 19:33:18 Originally by: Frezik We don't owe Microsoft anything for this. We've already given them too much, IMHO. If Microsoft hadn't helped bring the PC into everyone's home, somebody else would have. There were a lot of players trying to do the same thing from the '80s and into the '90s, and most of them would have done a better job than Microsoft if they had the chance. Both DOS and early Windows were laughably inferior to similar packages of the time. But the deals Microsoft (such as with IBM) as well as solid marketing put them up at the "best" solution in the minds of customers, regardless of technical merits. In that case Microsoft beat the competition and got to the top, they have stayed there because no other company has tried hard enough to knock them off. If some people's software is so much better at certain things that MS's version then why don't they get off their backsides and create something that can rivial Windows in the mainstream market? Why don't these companies join together to make a joint product? Simple, because they either a, don't want to share profits or b, because they think businesses are evil in the case of community designers. MAC OS whilst not being as popular as Windows certainly has not failed and is still going strong. As for DOS and early version os Windows being laughable compared to equivalents at the time, Microsoft won through a better business sense. Marketting 101: What do you do if your product is inferior to someone elses? Answer: Setup incentives and offer business deals to other major companies offering sister services in the same area. In this case offer deals with IBM to get your product widely used even if it is inferior. The other companies have no one to blame but themselves for lazily expecting their products to do better simply because they were better in a technical aspect. Originally by: Frezik I'd love to live a Microsoft-free existence. I already rely significantly less on Microsoft than I did two years ago. But I only got here by conscious effort that most people are not wiling to make, and I still can't rid Microsoft from my house completely. This is precisely the point. The average user does not make a concious effort, they pick the easiest solution. No other company is ever going to rival Microsoft if it does not stop expecting the consumer base to start making informed decisions between equivalent software pieces. Probably 90% of the consumer base don't even know the difference between Windows and something like Linux and it is ludicrous to expect them to be aware of this. Originally by: Frezik In short, your statements may have merit if we weren't forced to use Microsoft by many outside factors. The fact is that we are, so we are justified in complaining even while using their products. How are you forced to? You just said that for every microsoft function there is another program that does the same. Originally by: Dark Shikari I'll give you a direct example, though not operating system-related. If I want to open an OpenDocument file with my own program, its really easy: its XML, and the specification is entirely public. If I want to open a Word Document, I have to spend months reverse engineering the format and praying. It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation. Originally by: Dark Shikari It is not easy to unseat a massive abusive cartel. I hardly think you can call a single corporation a cartel, and if you were refering to Dell in this word as well as microsoft for preinstalling it's products; you just said that Dell are going to start offering Ubuntu and Linus as OS options? Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash
Frezik Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:41:00 - [69] Originally by: Benco97 Edited by: Benco97 on 24/04/2007 18:26:03 Where does the money go? After Microsoft falls where does the money go? By which I mean, what OS will make the most sales? They'll be the new enemy. THAT has nothing to do with OSs, it's humans. They always want more money and the people with the most money are the enemy. In the case of operating systems, there are rational reasons to hate the largest for no other reason than the fact that they are the largest. In terms of security, the largest will always get hit hard by malware, no matter how good the programmers behind the OS try to make it secure. If the world runs three different operating systems that work very differently and have roughly even market share, then the job of the malware writer becomes much, much harder. The top flaw in Windows security, therefore, is the one that Microsoft absolutely refuses to fix, because their business is based on that flaw's existence. Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Not a single person is forcing you to get Vista. DX10 will be ported to XP, thats a given. DX10 is hardly the only reason. We'll be forced to get Vista eventually because: 1) Two-bit OEM manufacturers (who most people get their computers from) will only sell computers with the latest version of Windows 2) Software vendors will stop supporting older versions 3) Security updates will stop being made to older versions The result being that any computer used for general home computing tasks must have Vista on it. This has been the way of things for every new version of Windows since at least 3.0, and I'm a little surprised that some people still don't realize it. The only exception was ME, and that only because Microsoft screwed it up so bad that even the hardcore Microsoft fans didn't like it. I am hopeful that the recent announcement by Dell that they will continue selling XP shows that #1 won't happen this time around, and #2 and #3 will be short-circuited as a result.
Frezik Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:05:00 - [70] Originally by: Flash Landsraad In that case Microsoft beat the competition and got to the top, they have stayed there because no other company has tried hard enough to knock them off. If some people's software is so much better at certain things that MS's version then why don't they get off their backsides and create something that can rivial Windows in the mainstream market? Why don't these companies join together to make a joint product? This might have worked in the early '90s, when the Microsoft monopoly was still weak and the market was much smaller. Right now, all competitors have to deal with the fact that 90% of the software titles on retail shelves is for Windows, and 90% of the OEM computers on retail shelves run Windows. This is not a position which can change overnight. It will take years, and even then, legacy programs will still hang on (people still have to run COBOL, after all). So even if a competitor was technically superior and had better marketing, Microsoft is still in a very entrenched position. Quote: As for DOS and early version os Windows being laughable compared to equivalents at the time, Microsoft won through a better business sense. Marketting 101 . . . That's what I said. Microsoft won through marketing and backroom deals which were consumer-hostile. If Microsoft hadn't existed, then the OS market may still have tended tward a monopoly, but I think that OS would have been chosen by the market on technical merits. I could have lived with that a lot easier. But why do people choose to defend Microsoft for the above? Quote: Originally by: Frezik I'd love to live a Microsoft-free existence. I already rely significantly less on Microsoft than I did two years ago. But I only got here by conscious effort that most people are not wiling to make, and I still can't rid Microsoft from my house completely. This is precisely the point. The average user does not make a concious effort, they pick the easiest solution. No other company is ever going to rival Microsoft if it does not stop expecting the consumer base to start making informed decisions between equivalent software pieces. Probably 90% of the consumer base don't even know the difference between Windows and something like Linux and it is ludicrous to expect them to be aware of this. This essentially means that the market has failed in this case. One can no longer say "that's just the way the market works", because it's actually a case where the market has been broken. Like-minded statements, such as "Microsoft's only job is to protect their business, and we shouldn't fault them for that", are also bunk, because such statements have an underlieing assumption that capitalism will work where it has actually failed. Quote: Originally by: Frezik In short, your statements may have merit if we weren't forced to use Microsoft by many outside factors. The fact is that we are, so we are justified in complaining even while using their products. How are you forced to? You just said that for every microsoft function there is another program that does the same. As to my specific case, I'm a contractor for web programming, and I have to turn in my time using a program that only works on Windows. Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing. Most days, I never have a work-related purpose for touching anything from Microsoft, but exceptions will happen, and I have to have a Windows box on hand to deal with them.
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:40:00 - [71] Well I'm not a super huge computer techsavvy person, nor exactly am I a business type person. So don't beat me up to hard of this "idea". But why not have a XP compatible version that well you pay for :\| When games start lookin infinitely better on dx10 (eve vista client ;p crysis ;p) Then I'd pay a fair amount for that I guess. Could probably charge like 50 bucks (is that like half of vista?) I'm sure a lot of people would get it :\| Right? ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that My blog abou
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:43:00 - [72] Originally by: Flash Landsraad It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation. Loyalty is earned :\| ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that My blog abou
Flash Landsraad STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.24 21:39:00 - [73] Originally by: Dao 2 Originally by: Flash Landsraad It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation. Loyalty is earned :\| Nah I didn't mean loyalty in that way hehe, I meant it in a more sinister sense, as in keeping one's customers. Hences the ''s. Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.04.24 21:44:00 - [74] Does moaning about Microsoft count as politics? The matter seems to divide people in much the same way, and if that's not why discussion of politics is banned here, why is it? N.B. these questions are rhetorical and should not be considered as invitations to respond. Do so at your own risk! ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.24 23:59:00 - [75] Originally by: Flash Landsraad Originally by: Dao 2 Originally by: Flash Landsraad It is called protecting your business and ensuring customer 'loyalty'. I would do exactly the same in MS's shoes and so I am sure would you. The difference is that you are looking at it from the consumer perspective rather than the providing perspective. I personally don't think one should complain about something they would do given the same situation. Loyalty is earned :\| Nah I didn't mean loyalty in that way hehe, I meant it in a more sinister sense, as in keeping one's customers. Hences the ''s. i no ;p specially with the ''s but still it seems so wrong to put it there ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that My blog abou
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.25 00:03:00 - [76] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Does moaning about Microsoft count as politics? The matter seems to divide people in much the same way, and if that's not why discussion of politics is banned here, why is it? N.B. these questions are rhetorical and should not be considered as invitations to respond. Do so at your own risk! Any argument divides people ;p Thats the whole point.... if everyone was on the same side then it wouldn't be an argument :\| more like an agreefeast :\| I think politics aren't allowed because it brings in nationilties and other stuff that leads to nasty things like stereotyping and racism ;p (actually I don't even know if they're banned here ;p learn somethin everyday huh ;p) I'm answering wether you want it or not -_- ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that My blog abou
oDDiTy V2 Epic.	Posted - 2007.04.25 02:43:00 - [77] "Agreefest" LOL. /me writes that one down.
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.25 02:49:00 - [78] Edited by: Dao 2 on 25/04/2007 02:45:30 Originally by: oDDiTy V2 "Agreefest" LOL. /me writes that one down. dunno what else to put but i like it too ;p has a nice ring to it ;p feels good to say too ;p agreefest ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that My blog abou
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.25 03:01:00 - [79] Originally by: Frezik Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing. Wouldn't the best solution be no to use IE anyway :\| Its a giant pos ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that My blog abou
Frezik Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.25 04:57:00 - [80] Originally by: Dao 2 Originally by: Frezik Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing. Wouldn't the best solution be no to use IE anyway :\| Its a giant pos ;p Sure, I'd love that. Trouble is, the company I work under is a Fortune 500. I'm sure telling all their customers that they can't use IE would go over well.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 11:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Benco97 Edited by: Benco97 on 24/04/2007 18:26:03 Where does the money go? After Microsoft falls where does the money go? By which I mean, what OS will make the most sales? They'll be the new enemy. THAT has nothing to do with OSs, it's humans. They always want more money and the people with the most money are the enemy. I dont' want to argue with you DS, you're a great guy and smart, very smart. You know more about both windows and linux than I know about windows, i'm just saying, irrespective of who's at the top there will be hate and this cycle will not stop until there ISN'T anyone at the top, unfortunately there will always be the most popular or the leader. You're right and you're wrong, I suppose. On the one hand, you are quite right that any company will always try to make as much money as possible. On the other, the open source movement is just a different animal to the proprietary software market. Take Ubuntu, for example. Their official sponsor-in-chief is Canonical. They make money through providing technical support, professional support contracts, and saleable documentation. It is, therefore, in their interests that Ubuntu is used as widely as possible. But heres the thing- Ubuntu is open source. If you want to, you can open it up and rummage around in the code to your heart's content. So lets say, for example, Canonical start trying to add proprietary elements into Ubuntu, or start using questionable business practices as Microsoft do. What do you think would happen? Someone would just take the full source code (as they are free to do) and re-release their own version without the crap. Voila, every Ubuntu user just moves to "FreeBuntu" or whatever, and Canonical are in the ****er. So theres nothing stopping Canonical turning into evil Microsoft clone, like you say- but it wont work. It can only work in a world where they have some sort of monopoly, and in the open source world, a monopoly is impossible. --------
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.25 17:57:00 - [82] Originally by: Frezik Originally by: Dao 2 Originally by: Frezik Also, there are occasionally problems with web pages that only occur in IE, which means I have to look at it in IE for testing. Wouldn't the best solution be no to use IE anyway :\| Its a giant pos ;p Sure, I'd love that. Trouble is, the company I work under is a Fortune 500. I'm sure telling all their customers that they can't use IE would go over well. That is the best way to make em switch :D Just tell them you'll be doing them a favor (and its the truth too :o ;p) ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that My blog abou
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.04.26 13:28:00 - [83] Originally by: Flash Landsraad I really don't understand why people slag off microsoft whilst using their products. Stinks a bit of hypocrisy to me to be honest (Note I'm not saying any of you do use Windows, I'm speaking generally). Actually, it stinks of monopoly.
DjemboS	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:35:00 - [84] I'm not any sort of authority on the subject, but I read this thread and couldnt help but add my two cents to this discussion. First of all, I have been dealing with the XP vs. Vista vs. Mac vs. Linux battle for a long time now, and I've had enough experience to feel like I can voice my experiences without feeling like a fanboi. My first computer was a custom-built 386, but since then Ive owned two macs, run a few linux distros, and of course many versions of OS. My experience is, microsoft has so far created the OS most useful by the most people. Just as always, theres the hardcore group who loves linux and max, and hates MS. There are many valid points- less viruses are written for macs, and apple has always been the best in allowing applications to work together, aka itunes and ipod for most people, but more importantly, stuff most people dont see, like trying to use after effects and premiere. they work under microsoft, yes, but the workflow is much better under mac. Plus, the idea of the Mac as a closed platform allows apple to write more reliable code and not have to deal with as many driver issues. Linux is nice, too, but for the opposite reasons. I am currently studying CSCI at W&M, and all of our computer science computers are running a build of SUSE. I dual-boot ubuntu and xp on my laptop, and its really useful, not to mention fun, to write small applications into the os to make it easier to use. Drivers are not that hard to find, and most items can be made compatible with some research and a few coding tweaks. On my main desktop, I boot ubuntu/xp/vista, and use all three. Xp is especially useful to run legacy programs like ulead MSP 8 or micrografx picture publisher, neither of which are made anymore and will never be patched for vista. The driver situation for vista has only recently become good enough that I now use it for most of my computer use. I like the fact that anything I plug in is recognized, and Vista has incorporated most of the reasons I ever used Mac. The reason Im posting all this, though, is because most people here are probably like me- they can adapt, can handle multiple oses. And Each of these oses has something they are best at. However, when it comes to choosing one, most people would choose microsoft, and that is a good thing for everyone. Ive tried to switch my roommates over to linux, and a few of my peers have owned macs. Almost every time, though, they end up switching over to MS for the same reason people buy ipods. It may not be the best at everything, but its just good enough for the most common uses to get everything done, and its well known that it can do that. And when you want to share a program, or present a powerpoint, or play a game together, or network computers, or... well, you get my point, its 90% likely that the other person will have MS. and that it will work. I agree that for competition purposes, we might be better off if the market share was split evenly, but most people dont care. They're willing to spend the extra $$, and sacrifice a little innovation to make sure that their OS will work with everyone elses OS. This isnt just a random comment though- out of everyone I go to school, barely 5% run anything than MS, and those who either own a desktop or know enough to install a new os, run vista. I feel like this is an important generation, too: college students and younger are the ones who are going to be in charge of the economy when the time comes. I do agree that it is changing, but I dont think novell or mac or even open source will take down MS. Over time MS will lose power, but just like a lot of the previous innovations and changes of power, it will happen slowly and due to some newcomer, some new idea. Mac and linux have had a ton of time to take down MS, and it hasnt happened yet- can someone else do it? If anything, mac seems to be going more MS- intel, x86, runs windows? but then again, who knows. Those are my thoughts, but remember its just an opinion
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.12.12 00:31:00 - [85] Originally by: DjemboS I'm not any sort of authority on the subject, but I read this thread and couldnt help but add my two cents to this discussion. Not trying to stop you but check the posting date of this thread. A bit after the fact and Mods hate necros .
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:05:00 - [86] Originally by: DjemboS I'm not any sort of authority on the subject, but I read this thread and couldnt help but add my two cents to this discussion. First of all, I have been dealing with the XP vs. Vista vs. Mac vs. Linux battle for a long time now, and I've had enough experience to feel like I can voice my experiences without feeling like a fanboi. My first computer was a custom-built 386, but since then Ive owned two macs, run a few linux distros, and of course many versions of OS. My experience is, microsoft has so far created the OS most useful by the most people. Just as always, theres the hardcore group who loves linux and max, and hates MS. There are many valid points- less viruses are written for macs, and apple has always been the best in allowing applications to work together, aka itunes and ipod for most people, but more importantly, stuff most people dont see, like trying to use after effects and premiere. they work under microsoft, yes, but the workflow is much better under mac. Plus, the idea of the Mac as a closed platform allows apple to write more reliable code and not have to deal with as many driver issues. Linux is nice, too, but for the opposite reasons. I am currently studying CSCI at W&M, and all of our computer science computers are running a build of SUSE. I dual-boot ubuntu and xp on my laptop, and its really useful, not to mention fun, to write small applications into the os to make it easier to use. Drivers are not that hard to find, and most items can be made compatible with some research and a few coding tweaks. On my main desktop, I boot ubuntu/xp/vista, and use all three. Xp is especially useful to run legacy programs like ulead MSP 8 or micrografx picture publisher, neither of which are made anymore and will never be patched for vista. The driver situation for vista has only recently become good enough that I now use it for most of my computer use. I like the fact that anything I plug in is recognized, and Vista has incorporated most of the reasons I ever used Mac. The reason Im posting all this, though, is because most people here are probably like me- they can adapt, can handle multiple oses. It may not be the best at everything, but its just good enough for the most common uses to get everything done, and its well known that it can do that. And when you want to share a program, or present a powerpoint, or play a game together, or network computers, or... well, you get my point, its 90% likely that the other person will have MS. and that it will work. I agree that for competition purposes, we might be better off if the market share was split evenly, but most people dont care. They're willing to spend the extra $$, and sacrifice a little innovation to make sure that their OS will work with everyone elses OS. This isnt just a random comment though- out of everyone I go to school, barely 5% run anything than MS, and those who either own a desktop or know enough to install a new os, run vista. I feel like this is an important generation, too: college students and younger are the ones who are going to be in charge of the economy when the time comes.I do agree that it is changing, but I dont think novell or mac or even open source will take down MS. Over time MS will lose power, but just like a lot of the previous innovations and changes of power, it will happen slowly and due to some newcomer, some new idea. Mac and linux have had a ton of time to take down MS, and it hasnt happened yet- can someone else do it? If anything, mac seems to be going more MS- intel, x86, runs windows? but then again, who knows. Those are my thoughts, but remember its. OMFG MY EYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!11 >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:22:00 - [87] Edited by: Ethidium Bromide on 12/12/2007 01:22:54 Originally by: Verone Originally by: DjemboS wall of letters OMFG MY EYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!11 it could be [colour=pink]worse[/pink]! edit: hm.. can't do the colour thing Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Biolaja Tista Gallente Soulbound. Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:27:00 - [88] Here's a thought: Why not make everything compatible with everything else?
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:35:00 - [89] Originally by: DjemboS IÆve owned a lot of computers with multiple operating systems. I feel Microsoft has the most user friendly system although fanboiÆs may prefer their linux or macs There are many wonderful things about macs and they seem less likely to get hit with a virus. I know many programs I like linux too. I dual boot linux and windows. Sometimes I boot linux, windows xp, and windows vista. All the operating systems have proÆs and conÆs. People can adapt. Many will go for windows because it is conveniant. System competition is good. Simplified. Now if you dont mind I need to go find a aspirin. ___________________________ Originally by: ISD Santiago Cortes Locked Blew through off-topic boulevard and ended up in flamebait crescent.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:40:00 - [90] It was simply a matter of time before microsoft realized that vista needs a whole lot of optimizing and modification for those that care about such things to use it. even the best manipulative PR couldn't avoid this from happening. and as we all could see 2141241 au away, the dx10 for vista only was nothing but a sales ploy, and anyone who knows anything about what directx is (just a 3d programming api made by microsoft, no more no less) would understand that it is easily ported to xp so with that said, let's enjoy the possibilities this foreseable change will incur fly safe.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 01:42:00 - [91] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 12/12/2007 01:45:23 Originally by: Biolaja Tista Here's a thought: Why not make everything compatible with everything else? It would be incredibly easy, design some standard interfaces/protocols/standards and get on with it. the only thing, and i honestly mean the ONLY thing that stands in the way of this, is big business, money, and offcourse the ever increasing proprietory standards, which tends to flow in unison. atleast up till these recent years. meaning that they would actually have to sit down and give up their sovereignity in the form of the proprietary standards, for the good of all consumers. your argument is sound, and eventually we will get there too. and then things will be a whole lot easier for everyone
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2007.12.12 12:29:00 - [92] Originally by: Dark Shikari They did a survey and 88% of Windows users said that they were not planning to upgrade to Vista in the next year. The only copies of Vista selling are coming with new machines, and even Dell was forced by their userbase to start selling Windows XP on their computers again. I think you overestimate the average consumer. I work in a PC store, my job is to sell machines pre-installed with Vista (and nothing but Vista) and hoardes of people happily come and do so. We don't even sell a boxed version of XP anymore. Surveys of that nature are decieving as they don't represent the entire spectrum of Windows users. I'm sure 90% of the members of a popular tech forum, for example, wouldn't be planning on upgrading to Vista in the next year - but that dosen't automatically mean those same figures can be used for all windows users as it simply dosen't represent them. When you or me are looking to upgrade, we don't get the latest OS until we actually need it. Most people arn't like you or me though, as they're just looking for something that does the job for the next 3-5 years at which point they'll just buy an entirely new machine for the following 3-5 years, saving on the complexities of upgrading or building PCs themselves (which also voids warranty) and almost certainly coming with the latest Microsoft OS. -----
Caiman Graystock Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:43:00 - [93] your mom?

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