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Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:03:00 - [1] I was wondering if some of the more experienced players of EvE could give their view on this matter. The character doesnt have much SP (As low as possible, plz also give an estimate of SP needed for lvl 4 missions) So basically what would you fly for lvl 4 missions with as low skill as possible, and convince me that your choice of ship is the right one Greetz,
CptEagle Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:07:00 - [2] Just dont bother and use a Raven. With a few million SP's in combat skills you can do it. If you use Apoc you will need ****loads of skills, and I dont think a Geddon will work. You could also use a gankgeddon to help someone else with his missions.
Archaon Dechalus	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:19:00 - [3] Edited by: Archaon Dechalus on 25/04/2007 18:16:08 Not to be rude or anything, but that wasnt the question. I know ravens are easy to pilot, but thats not the option here.... if the choice you have is Apoc or Geddon, which would you choose, and why? PS: this was supposed to be written by mechalus kal'lith (selected the wrong char)
matty01 Minmatar Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:30:00 - [4] Originally by: Archaon Dechalus Edited by: Archaon Dechalus on 25/04/2007 18:16:08 Not to be rude or anything, but that wasnt the question. I know ravens are easy to pilot, but thats not the option here.... if the choice you have is Apoc or Geddon, which would you choose, and why? PS: this was supposed to be written by mechalus kal'lith (selected the wrong char) ermm..i think what he means is proly neither your gonna need alot of help if your tryin to do lvl 4's with an apoc or geddon at low skill levels tbh __________________________
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:40:00 - [5] Use an Abaddon. It's simply not possible to do a lot of level fours in an Apoc or Armageddon, the Armageddon doesn't have NEAR enough powergrid to fit good DPS AND a good tank with low skills, and the Apoc will have serious problems breaking a lot of NPC battleship tanks.
Ryysa North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Archaon Dechalus Edited by: Archaon Dechalus on 25/04/2007 18:16:08 Not to be rude or anything, but that wasnt the question. I know ravens are easy to pilot, but thats not the option here.... if the choice you have is Apoc or Geddon, which would you choose, and why? PS: this was supposed to be written by mechalus kal'lith (selected the wrong char) Unless you RP, the time to train up raven to do lvl4's better than abaddon is less than it takes time to train t2 guns for the abaddon. N.F.F. Recruitment - Killboard Mirroring tool
Archaon Dechalus	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:43:00 - [7] Ok, so if low skills wont do it, how much skill would I need then to do it in Apoc, geddon or abbadon? And are you guys telling me that lvl 4 missions in this game can only be done by ravens?.... which would mean all the other bs's are useless (save for pvp)? And ok, say I went for the raven, what makes it so good for those missions (yes im pretty new)?
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:52:00 - [8] I did level fours in an Abaddon with 1.6 million SP. If you have the money for three cap recharge rigs you can probably do it with even less. The key is to use Amarr/Caldari mission agents and avoid the (rare) Angel/Gurista missions you get from these agents since you will not be able to break the tanks of the 50km orbiting battleships. Just fit 8x Mega Modulated Pulse in highs, 4x Cap Recharger in mids, and 2x Accomodation LAR, a beta mod power relay, three mission specific hardeners and a heat sink in lows. The biggest nightmare is if you get the Gurista themed storyline because you will not be able to complete it and you will lose a CRAPLOAD of faction.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Xequecal I did level fours in an Abaddon with 1.6 million SP. No, you didn't. And an Apoc is plenty for most Lvl4s. Some will trouble, especially if the foe is Angels, but most of the time the Apoc's hooge cap will see you through. Not the best choice of ship, but plenty capable. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:58:00 - [10] I swear this same thread appears under a new author every single day. Getting lame.... ofc a geddon!!
Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:59:00 - [11] well I'm guessing (some exceptions put asside) ravens are a mus then. also firing missiles doesnt cost cap i noticed. Does Amar and gallente get a compensation for requiring cap to fire?
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Mechalus Kal'lith well I'm guessing (some exceptions put asside) ravens are a mus then. also firing missiles doesnt cost cap i noticed. Does Amar and gallente get a compensation for requiring cap to fire? Er, Hybrids and Lasers do a hell of a lot more damage. This is basic stuff. I'm not sure you're rady for Lvl4 missions regardless of the ship you use. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:21:00 - [13] Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 25/04/2007 19:18:24 Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Mechalus Kal'lith well I'm guessing (some exceptions put asside) ravens are a mus then. also firing missiles doesnt cost cap i noticed. Does Amar and gallente get a compensation for requiring cap to fire? Er, Hybrids and Lasers do a hell of a lot more damage. This is basic stuff. I'm not sure you're rady for Lvl4 missions regardless of the ship you use. Maybe you aren't, since you're wrong. Anyway, Raven is stupidly over-powered in PVE, but for Amarr mission ships, it'd go in order: Abaddon, Apoc, Geddon.
Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:28:00 - [14] Well I'll wait a bit longr then, since I love the golden ships of Amarr. Thanks all for the replies
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Mechalus Kal'lith well I'm guessing (some exceptions put asside) ravens are a mus then. also firing missiles doesnt cost cap i noticed. Does Amar and gallente get a compensation for requiring cap to fire? more dps up close, thats it, ravens are the best, i had this long post, but it bugged up, just trust me, ravens own. It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Maybe you aren't, since you're wrong. Anyway, Raven is stupidly over-powered in PVE, but for Amarr mission ships, it'd go in order: Abaddon, Apoc, Geddon. BlasterThron > Pulse Abaddon > AutoPest > Torp Raven. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:45:00 - [17] A bit of a confesion to make, I've played this game before, but that wasn't exactly yesterday (therefore for me its back to basics again, also seen that there are new ships), I was hoping a lot has changed, ...... apperently it hasnt. So ravens are still gods in missions, does that also mean the gunboats are still the way to go for ganking and simple pvp (read go Gallente)?.... Not that it will change my mind, I refuse to believe that with a lot, and i mean a serious lot of sp Amarr cant do lvl 4 missions.... But I'll let you know the outcome of that.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Mechalus Kal'lith So ravens are still gods in missions, does that also mean the gunboats are still the way to go for ganking and simple pvp (read go Gallente)?.... That's it exactly. Caldari for PvE, Gallente for PvP. Amarr and Minmatar have their uses, but they are much more demanding in terms of SP. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 19:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Mechalus Kal'lith So ravens are still gods in missions, does that also mean the gunboats are still the way to go for ganking and simple pvp (read go Gallente)?.... That's it exactly. Caldari for PvE, Gallente for PvP. Amarr and Minmatar have their uses, but they are much more demanding in terms of SP. So in PvP if one pilot uses gallente with say 25M SP and he/she faces an Amarr or Minmatar with 25M SP, it's easier for him to come out on top? And if go even xtremer with way more SP, do you still have a fighting chance as an Amarr... Really hope so, Cause I love there Empire looks. Well, I'll just keep some faith in the devs, and hope someday there will be a solution, for now its simply teaming up with others or otherwise.....; 'If you can't beat em, Join em'
Kayleya	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:00:00 - [20] I was calling Level 4 missions 'easy' around the 10-12 million SP mark using an Apoc. I think my setup was 6x mega pulse / 2x Torp...cap rechargers...2x LAR II / Hardeners / Heatsinks / Plating. With the Abaddon and Rigs, you could probably do level 4's around the 6-8 mil and not worry about being selective on missions.
Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Kayleya I was calling Level 4 missions 'easy' around the 10-12 million SP mark using an Apoc. I think my setup was 6x mega pulse / 2x Torp...cap rechargers...2x LAR II / Hardeners / Heatsinks / Plating. With the Abaddon and Rigs, you could probably do level 4's around the 6-8 mil and not worry about being selective on missions. you're the 2nd person who believes that the abaddon is better for missions... cool. Didn't expect that after reading through all the complaints about it on other posts. But thanks for telling me lvl4's can be done with Amarr if you have some patience :). I'll go look throught the stats for the abaddon compared to apoc and see why it could be better (of course there's still the price issue then). Once again thanks for the comment.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:18:00 - [22] Two very important things: 1/ 5 mil SP pilot in a Megathron with a T1 fitting meets a 25 mil SP player in a Vexor. The Vexor dies. SP means nothing in the extreme-short term. 2/ Lvl4 missions have been changed alot recently, and lot of them are a great deal harder, and involve alot of hostile EWar. People who squeak: "blah lolz!!1!!!11! i did all the lveel fuors in a thorxa with 300K SP lolz coz im ub3r lolz" are both idiots, liars and their experiences are irrelevant since all the missions at Level 4 have changed and are quite a bit harder in some cases. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Marquis Dean Two very important things: 1/ 5 mil SP pilot in a Megathron with a T1 fitting meets a 25 mil SP player in a Vexor. The Vexor dies. SP means nothing in the extreme-short term. 2/ Lvl4 missions have been changed alot recently, and lot of them are a great deal harder, and involve alot of hostile EWar. People who squeak: "blah lolz!!1!!!11! i did all the lveel fuors in a thorxa with 300K SP lolz coz im ub3r lolz" are both idiots, liars and their experiences are irrelevant since all the missions at Level 4 have changed and are quite a bit harder in some cases. I missed your conclusion in here, but I guess you mean you need more SP these days to do lvl 4 missions, and you also mean that Raven is the way to go... Ok, but what then according to you should be my SP (not including learning) to pilot a raven through a lvl 4 mission without having to many 'near death experiences'? And then the same question using an Apoc or Abaddon. Hoping and waiting,
Kayleya	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:38:00 - [24] Get to level 3-4 in the appropriate Gunnery / Engineering / Electronics / Mechanic / Drone skills and have level 3 BS and you should be able to get through most level 4's. You'll still have to be careful though. To give you an idea, I have 550k in Electronics / 1.4mil in Engineering / 4mil in Gunnery / 1.2mil in Mechanic / 2.2mil in Drones and level 4 Amarr BS. There is no level 4 mission I can't do in my Abaddon and I can't remember the last time I had to warp out of a mission. Now, my ship is entirely Tech II except for the guns, so keep that in mind.
Mechalus Kal'lith Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:03:00 - [25] Edited by: Mechalus Kal''lith on 25/04/2007 22:00:24 Originally by: Kayleya Get to level 3-4 in the appropriate Gunnery / Engineering / Electronics / Mechanic / Drone skills and have level 3 BS and you should be able to get through most level 4's. You'll still have to be careful though. To give you an idea, I have 550k in Electronics / 1.4mil in Engineering / 4mil in Gunnery / 1.2mil in Mechanic / 2.2mil in Drones and level 4 Amarr BS. There is no level 4 mission I can't do in my Abaddon and I can't remember the last time I had to warp out of a mission. Now, my ship is entirely Tech II except for the guns, so keep that in mind. Thank you very much for this information, time to skill skill skill. The only question for me that remains now is, why is abaddon better then the apoc for missions...? Is this solely because of the 5% armor resis the ship has as a bonus, or is it more? PS: I'll check the answer in a few hours, since I'm gonna do some snoring, Later ya'll
Max Manlove Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:29:00 - [26] Geddon eats level 3 missions easy. Dual heavy beam lasers, webber, tracking comp, cap recharger. Plus that enormous dronebay (for a non-gallente ship) will serve you good. It will in most cases kill stuff faster than you can target it. Will help you get the skills to run an abaddon or apoc in a level 4. ♥♥♥ Protecting Your Right To Love Thy Neighbor ♥♥♥
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:50:00 - [27] Originally by: Mechalus Kal'lith Edited by: Mechalus Kal''lith on 25/04/2007 22:00:24 Originally by: Kayleya Get to level 3-4 in the appropriate Gunnery / Engineering / Electronics / Mechanic / Drone skills and have level 3 BS and you should be able to get through most level 4's. You'll still have to be careful though. To give you an idea, I have 550k in Electronics / 1.4mil in Engineering / 4mil in Gunnery / 1.2mil in Mechanic / 2.2mil in Drones and level 4 Amarr BS. There is no level 4 mission I can't do in my Abaddon and I can't remember the last time I had to warp out of a mission. Now, my ship is entirely Tech II except for the guns, so keep that in mind. Thank you very much for this information, time to skill skill skill. The only question for me that remains now is, why is abaddon better then the apoc for missions...? Is this solely because of the 5% armor resis the ship has as a bonus, or is it more? PS: I'll check the answer in a few hours, since I'm gonna do some snoring, Later ya'll You have two choices. 1/ Train to fly a Raven. For Caldari BS IV and a T2 tank, will take you about 3-4 weeks. 2/ Keep training Amarr. Which you'll appreicate in the long run, as any skillpoints you put into shields, missiles or Caldari will be wasted really, and I think in the future you'd rather you stuck with Amarr. If Lvl4s are too hard, stick with Lvl3s until you're ready, but I honestly think you should stay with Amarr. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.04.25 22:58:00 - [28] if you go with the apoc, get large projectile turrets, the Apoc doesnt lose any of its bonuses that way and you also some more varied damage types. And Large projectile turrets have easier fitting requirements. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day
Dammar Amarr Ephorate	Posted - 2007.04.25 23:27:00 - [29] I use a geddon with a domi setup to support it for lvl 4's. Abaddon would be better, I'm just too lazy/poor to get another one heh. For lvl 3's I solo using either a zealot or drake.
Stephente	Posted - 2007.04.25 23:46:00 - [30] Apoc is probably the easiest with low skillpoints. You could probably do most level 4's with ~3 million combat oriented skillpoints. I did them when I had 5 million or so, and 2 million of that was in learning. Basically, go with something like this: highs = 8x named megapulse meds = 4x cap rechargers lows = 1x large rep, 1x medium rep, 1x cap relay, 4x NPC specific hardeners Just do Sansha & Blood Raider missions, decline everything else. You won't be setting any speed records, but you'll have no problems killing everything. With 2 EM & 2 thermal hardeners, your tank will hold up easily. One little tip: train Drones V and Drone Interfacing III (or IV). You'll be depending on them to take out the frigs & interceptors. As your cap skills improves, and as you add rigs, you can start mixing modules around to fit in heat sinks. Once you hit 2 heat sinks on the Apoc, it might be time to give the Abaddon a spin. Just use your same Apoc setup, replacing the 2 heat sinks with relays. The Abaddon is better than the Apoc overall for missions, but it is more skillpoint intensive due mainly to capacitor problems. You really need capacitor rigs to make it work, which requires ISK, something that newer players probably don't have in large supply. The Apoc's only weakness is the ability to deal a lot of damage... but as a new mission runner, your main goal is probably to survive, and the Apoc does that just fine.

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