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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.04.27 17:20:00 - [61] Mikhalio, that is a most excellent post in this thread...one of the few on the forums. Regards! Merc Blog
Kaiso Ohad Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:22:00 - [62] Edited by: Kaiso Ohad on 27/04/2007 21:21:37 I've been waiting for a Tux blog and now I feel stupid. Quote: There are a lot of ways in which we can discourage people to blob together in those power balls, area of effect weaponry being the most obvious. Never, in the history of MMOPRGs, has the threat of AE weaponry/spells prevented or reduced zerging/blobbing. Ever. Quote: That's what I've been working on. Does that mean all the other stuff I'd said I'd do is cancelled? Nope, there are other people working for CCP that can do that stuff. Even if it hasn't been done and I haven't been working on it doesn't mean it won't get done. I might do it later. Yeah, yeah...
Grismar Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.04.27 22:26:00 - [63] How about making the 'remote ECM burst' (or remote Sensor Dampening burst, or remote tracking disrupting burst) a missile? That way, people actually have a reason to fit launchers to all of the gunboats again and the Defender might actually see some use again if all of the target that would be affected by the burst could launch them. I like the main ideas there though, keep going :). Your EVE IGB home: EVE Wiki, Explorer, Navigator
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.04.28 07:12:00 - [64] I know all about the bombs and ecm bursts and they won't work. All this will do is stop ships from remaining physically proximate to each other, it doesn't stop you spreading 200 sniper battleships evenly around a stargate and killing anything that comes in. What it WILL hurt is intersupportive battleship-class remote tanks, which aren't even used because they're difficult enough to pull off with small groups. Before you try to counteract blobbing, define it. Blobbing isn't when you get 10 ships within 10km of each other, blobbing is when you get 200-man gangs camping in one grid. Unless these AOE weapons are grid-wide and somehow magically don't affect your own guys, these solutions require more thought. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Kaiso Ohad Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.28 10:38:00 - [65] Originally by: Nyphur Unless these AOE weapons are grid-wide and somehow magically don't affect your own guys, these solutions require more thought. Yes. Also I'm sure that "thought" is something people who don't do all of their fighting in 0.0, where AOE is an option, would appreciate.
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.04.28 11:13:00 - [66] Edited by: n0thing on 28/04/2007 11:10:23 Nice read, tho ECM and AoE wont solve problem as is, whats preventing people from warping to the same fight location just split into say 10 groups shaped into a half-circle? Same range +-10%, almost same damage, and same target calling FC over all groups. Oh and btw, to the stacking ideas, game isnt in a need to stack on everything. We may as well stack on ship count in space if we wanna stack everything down. ---
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.04.28 11:58:00 - [67] Wow. CCP once again treats a symptom rather then the cause - namely the absolute necessity of controlling POS's, the fact it takes a certain minimum number of ships doing X DPS to bring one down, and the fact that the absolute best way to get rid of a POS is to get rid of it as quickly as possible which means to bring as many ships as you can. No amount of AoE weapons is going to change this while POS mechanics remain as they, they're just going to heavily weight things in favor of him with the Titans and capital ships.
Athena Attom	Posted - 2007.04.28 15:32:00 - [68] Its nice to see CCP reading and replying to our comments like in some of the other blogs aint it ;) fix it dont nerf it.
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.04.28 17:09:00 - [69] placeholder..... Khaldari Research Services BPO Shop KPA Recruiting!
diabolic clone Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.04.28 17:28:00 - [70] I really like the idea of smaller tactical formations sounds interesting for some situations and could even help to move peoples camps off of gates and maybe into more 'tactical' locations. Gotta admit though given as little as I know about Heat sounds like those somewhat decent to super-great tanks are going to be even better just my assuption that heat will be better for increasing your ships longevity over damage output for longer fights. Should be fun though after you get the enevitable rank3 skills for it and whatever pre-requisites. Ships should be able to destinquish easier what tier level and size can compete against eachother some of the videos I've seen linked here were just silly, a lone frigate killing battleships? atleast it will encourage more people to gang up to accomplish things until they get remote ECM / smartbombed. anyway will be a blast (pun intended) if it is properly implemented. Carebear Stare

Meditril	Posted - 2007.04.28 18:08:00 - [71] Hi Tux, you should ask yourself why people are blobbing... the reason is very simple: 1. You can not do anything against a blob with just one ship... that's a problem of the "commit to fight" philosophy. So you need to come with your own blob if you want to have some success. You simply can't even tease a blob with just one ship except by warping at 100km and warping away... that's lame. It's simply suicide to warp into a blob... except you have a BS with SmartBombs and you are going against Tech1 Frigs. What we need is a possibility to tease a blob for example by moving in firing some weapons and running away etc when they are currently playing with another victim. 2. There are no possibilities to hunt people... I mean real hunting: Find a victim, engage him... he runs away you go after him... and so on. This is more exciting and has a longer duration than current 30 sec. getting killed instantly by a camp. At the moment the easiest way to hunt people is to set up a gate camp make a blob and fire at everything what passes. That's lame. Give people a chance to identify what's on the other side... this would discourage people to blob, since if there are many hostiles nobody would enter the gate. So if you want to camp you need a small gang. Regards, Meditril
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.04.28 21:33:00 - [72] I think a lot of people have forgotten that a lot of the AOE stuff was mostly there to break up this "power ball" that he's talking about. Making the contributions of small PvP gangs significant is a separate issue that he's working on. But still, I've thought of two problems with AoE weapons, besides the fact that when coming out of gang warp, you have no choice but to end up right next to a bunch of people. 1) When coming through a gate, you have no choice to be at least mostly bunched up next to other people with you. The people you were jumping into can just spam remote ECM bursts and launchable smartbombs at you and you don't really have much choice but to take it at least for a few seconds to a minute, and that can mean death in a fleet fight. You could fit a MWD on your ship (though if its an Amarr ship, fat chance of that, I have tried, believe me) but then EVERY ship needs to have MWDs, which kind of kills variety in fleet fitting choices. 2) If you were to have everyone undock from a station that was camped by an enemy force, you'd have all of your own guys bunched up into a tiny ball when, in the meantime, the people camping could have been already prepared all along and nicely spread out. The campers get to spam AoEs, the people undocking have no choice but to get blown up before they can do anything since they keep getting hit by ECM bursts and smartbombs. I don't want to sound ungrateful, or like an incurable pessimist, but in these cases I don't see combat going anywhere beyond "god I wish they would jump in this is so boring" or "they're outside the station and already ready for us, just don't undock and hope they go away". I'm not against the concept of heat being a part of combat, but when it comes to AoE anti-power ball weapons, I think it'd be better to shelve that idea and work on higher-priority issues...such as, for example, Titans.
Risar Surtr	Posted - 2007.04.28 22:21:00 - [73] If your having a problem with your code or similar, fix the damn code. Don't change the entire games dynamic to compensate. HEAT sounds interesting. How about BROKE to go along with it, all about damaging the particular subsystems of ships. Make it so "accuracy" of a weapon effects the desired result (ie a torpedo hitting a HAC has slim to no chance of doing any subsystem damage. A T2 frigate turret is almost gauranteed to do damage to a BS's warp core but does very little damage). But before ANY of this should be implemented Amarr needs to be fixed, unless your thinking about making them the "HEAT" race instead of the "cap" race. (Which is NOT working.) If you need ideas about how to fix amarr just look around the forums, there are plenty. You guys implemented a broken invention system and are tweaking it. Why wont you at least TRY to fix Amarr ? I would rather play a broke race thats getting some attention than a broken and ignored race. This content adding craze can slow down until you get some fundamental issues sorted out. I promise you nobody will mind.
Shadowraven213 Caldari Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.28 23:58:00 - [74] ecm targetted burst hmmm.... reminds me of something long ago back through aons of patches and changes there it is! when you fire a torpedo that huge shockwave! i remember now hahaha!! Bring back splash damage on torpedos!!! \o/
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.04.29 01:44:00 - [75] Originally by: Bein Glorious I think a lot of people have forgotten that a lot of the AOE stuff was mostly there to break up this "power ball" that he's talking about. I appreciate the guy's just doing his job but does he have to make up fake problems just so he can solve them? What the christ is a Power Ball? I read the devblog and it says that it's when people group ships together so that they become effectively one giant ship with massive firepower. NOBODY DOES THIS. EVER. There's no benefit to doing it and certainly nothing that AOE weapons will fix. This is a made-up problem and the solution doesn't fight blobbing at all. Having 50 ships right next to each other is LESS effective than having 50 ships spread out across the grid due to transverse velocity being different from each firing point. With people bunched togehter, an interceptor can treat them mostly as one ship to avoid them. If they spread out, that same interceptor has to be at low transverse velocity with one target to be at high transverse with another. All these AOE weapons will do is harm gangs that are travelling together, including small gangs which are not considered blobs. I'm glad I'm out of 0.0 blob warfare because it seems it won't be fixed any time soon. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Athena Attom	Posted - 2007.04.29 11:16:00 - [76] I hope they just listen to what we say rather than just make up problems that dont exist. You have people like goonswarm which will basically kill all possible ways of defending their space because - I do not mean this as a flame; there is 4000 of them, 2000 very low skill pointed characters how are they supposed to get involved? ( number taken from your recent recruitment campaign ) Tux if you think this is a good way to fix blobbing you either do not play the game or certainly couldn't give a crap about it. You might as well put a cap limit on systems to 10 just in case people " blobbing " get a foothold anywhere! I hope you realize tux that until you fix the issue your going to be flamed when you bring up rather silly ideas such as this one. Titan is the blob buster, if you cannot afford one well start saving alliances such as bob & d2 appear to have well over 2 each what are you going to use them for when the blob is obsolete? Freighter jumping; thats right d2 / bob you spent 100b (ship + fittings) To jump freighters! fix it dont nerf it.
dor amwar Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.29 12:06:00 - [77] one AoE that i have thought of that i've not seen but must have been posted before is that of gates and stations 'suck'. have you ever thought of making ships that stand at stations/gates start to take either a shield or cap hit? maybe after a minute or so. i think cap would be hard unless you could just take it down to say 5% otherwise you'd end up with stranded ships with 0 cap. or maybe it would force them to fly away to say 20km to recharge. as i said shield would be another option. this would not really kill blobs, but it would make it more interesting for the ones that just sit at gates, one force on one side and the other force on the other, and gate camps. more thought needed, but a basic idea.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.04.29 21:53:00 - [78] And while you are at it, please break up the NPCs too: http://junk.chruker.dk/files/screenshots/eve_online/concord_huddle.jpg http://junk.chruker.dk/files/screenshots/eve_online/npc_huddle.jpg The concord ships were all perfectly stationary, while the Ravens were circling around, but bumping of each other unable to escape. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Updated data export - Speedup IGB table rendering
Jack'O Blades Minmatar	Posted - 2007.04.29 23:13:00 - [79] What's the purpose of Dev blogs if thre is NO follow up???? Tux some replies please... Sig: Forum PvP encounter Noob (Jack'O Blades): "Please... please don't ban me (or edit my posts into oblivion)... Dont I have free speech???" Evil Dev/GM: "YARRR!!! u fool!!! ...snip.."
Ischia	Posted - 2007.04.30 03:14:00 - [80] Im sure others must have said this, but remote AEO ECM etc will not solve blobs; they will just add a smple first step..."start moving 20k out from each other", then start insta-popping the enemy. You really need to stack-nerf damage.

dot me	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:39:00 - [81] i'm shocked to say the least. maybe moust of you don't know this(and i'll add here our Dev team) but the only 2 weapons that have Aoe damage, that is smartboms and DD are a nice recepy for ... LAG! and when i say lag i mean hugdge terrible shocking lag. so .. you're going to fix fleet warefare that suffers from lag ... with more lag. YAY!!!! oh joy i cannot wait to see this!! you ppl must be out of your minds.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:06:00 - [82] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/04/2007 17:03:09 Originally by: Jack'O Blades What's the purpose of Dev blogs if thre is NO follow up???? Tux some replies please... Tux almost never strikes twice in the same spot. He's like the lightning with a nerfbat. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:00:00 - [83] Hi all, Haven't read the whole thread but I had a tough for a while about bombers... We all know there is a nice little class of useless ship called stealth bombers. Well how about giving those massive AoE bomb. those bomb would be : 1. Very slow but an excessive long range. 2. Target able by players. 3. Destroyable. 4. Only for bombers and should have 1 reload in hangar with a 30 to 1 min reload delay. 5. AoE Now you say why not blob with those? Easy enough point 1 and 5. 1 bomb its AoE all incomings... Usable against POS and strucutres. Not inline with the Titan AoE but enough to scare hurt blobs. Slow enough to run them out but still having to move about/warp out. ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:28:00 - [84] Edited by: Sebastien LeReparteur on 30/04/2007 18:24:45 Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur Hi all, Haven't read the whole thread but I had a tough for a while about bombers... We all know there is a nice little class of useless ship called stealth bombers. Well how about giving those massive AoE bomb. those bomb would be : 1. Very slow but an excessive long range. 2. Target able by players. 3. Destroyable. 4. Only for bombers and should have 1 reload in hangar with a 30 to 1 min reload delay. 5. AoE Now you say why not blob with those? Easy enough point 1 and 5. 1 bomb its AoE all incomings... Usable against POS and strucutres. Not inline with the Titan AoE but enough to scare hurt blobs. Slow enough to run them out but still having to move about/warp out. Now there would be a need for a T2 gunnery equivalent, maybe a new tier2 T2 destroyer with carpet bombing ammo/gun. 1. Smaller AoE. 2. Fast Reload. 3. Extreme Long range (maybe)/ Small medium range (anti-frig killers) Ppl said carpet bombing space is dumb but when you shoot a brick in a direction and you hit 50 BS there may be a good reason for it Those two option would also give a flavor to missile vs gunnery ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Creh Ester	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:10:00 - [85] Originally by: Athena Attom I hope they just listen to what we say rather than just make up problems that dont exist. You have people like goonswarm which will basically kill all possible ways of defending their space because - I do not mean this as a flame; there is 4000 of them, 2000 very low skill pointed characters how are they supposed to get involved? ( number taken from your recent recruitment campaign ) Tux if you think this is a good way to fix blobbing you either do not play the game or certainly couldn't give a crap about it. You might as well put a cap limit on systems to 10 just in case people " blobbing " get a foothold anywhere! I hope you realize tux that until you fix the issue your going to be flamed when you bring up rather silly ideas such as this one. Titan is the blob buster, if you cannot afford one well start saving alliances such as bob & d2 appear to have well over 2 each what are you going to use them for when the blob is obsolete? Freighter jumping; thats right d2 / bob you spent 100b (ship + fittings) To jump freighters! I totally agree. IMO this is a fake problem. I don't really see that players are much concerned about "blobs". In my mind this is a pet peave with one or some ccp guys. Maybe he got blown up first and didn't get to participate in the battle much. Tough luck. Suck it and grow up. There are so many other ways in which gameplay sucks so much more, that are in a lot more need of fixing. I'm pretty sure about what is going to happen if a "cure" to blobs is attempted. The very first thing is that those weapons and modules are going to be used by a lot of creative abusers for exploits and to kill gameplay for others in a number of other settings. The second thing is that a simple counter tactic is going to be used to render them essentially useless for countering superior firepower play - which is what blob is. The third thing is that the appearance of these new mods are going to radically change the power "balance" of a number of other things in a number of ways that ccp won't be able to predict. And as a result a large part of gameplay is going to be ruined for a lot of players. And months, maybe even many, many months investment in skill points are going to be rendered useless for a lot of players. And - sigh - that is pretty much business as usual, of course (hear that ccp?) Then there will be rounds of nerfing spread over a year or more to deal with things. And a good deal of those nerfs are going to appear unreasonable to a lot of players in turn. This ccp plot aimes at foiling tactics to use superiority in firepower effectively. Why, for C*sakes? - Why?
Caiar	Posted - 2007.05.02 04:02:00 - [86] The idea of AOE direct attacks might do a bit to break up the standard blob a bit, and would put a bit of a twist to things, but I hope things are added in a little more realistic aspect; perhaps artillery shells that do area of effect at a specific distance, but still must be aimed normally, or somesuch. One thing that I thing would also break up the ship blob is to implement collateral damage in combat situations. For instance: when firing a laser or whatever weapon you want, if you miss, the attack doesn't simply dissapear, it might hit something nearby. Also, if something just happens to by flying into your line of fire, you may just hit it instead of your intended target, regardless of your intentions. This would not only strongly encourage groups to split up a bit more, but also give smaller ships a bit more of a role in large combat. One wouldn't want to fire off large cannons at a frigate spinning around your ship while you're surrounded by allied battleships, especially considering the relatively low chance to hit on such targets. Such things would do much of what you're intending, encouraging greater veriety in battles, and help broaden the variety in battle strategy as well.
Varrakk Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.02 12:04:00 - [87] Torpedoes got nice AOE potencial
Kintai mangi	Posted - 2007.05.03 02:15:00 - [88] Oh, and I forgot to point out that the one race that doesnt really have any "AoE" type weapons is ... Amarr. He must hate Amarr. I wonder what they ever did to him.
Caiar	Posted - 2007.05.03 02:36:00 - [89] Hmm... Amarr AOE attacks... I suppose they could use some sort of ray weapon or somesuch silliness, or use sustained beams that hit an arc of enemies instead of one target. It's difficult for me to imagine light rays doing an area of effect attack.
Impolite Andevil	Posted - 2007.05.04 14:51:00 - [90] Originally by: Caiar Hmm... Amarr AOE attacks... I suppose they could use some sort of ray weapon or somesuch silliness, or use sustained beams that hit an arc of enemies instead of one target. It's difficult for me to imagine light rays doing an area of effect attack. You could deal with that using the x-ray laser satellite concept that was developed for the Reagan-era Strategic Defense Initiative. A nuclear bomb at the core of a satellite with hundreds of carbon fibers pointing out from the center. When the bomb is detonated, the high-energy radiation pulse causes the fibers to lase in the x-ray spectrum in whatever direction they are pointed. This concept applied to the Amarr would allow them to launch a bomb that would fire the equivalent of 50-100 cruiser sized lasers at once, but have no more than 3-5 of those hit the same target. Something like that.



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