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[MITG] Public statement on Operation Ikaheka Freedom

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Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 616	Posted - 2017.02.18 16:01:28 - [1] - Quote Late last week, a thorny situation came to the attention of the Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group. Shortly after one of our former brothers in Pyre joined the Akagi Initiative, currently under contract with the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, his former CEO Taisho Xun Yu of Sanxing [SANXI] attempted to exert diplomatic pressure on Akagi Initiative to fire said pilot, citing alleged earlier crimes against Sanxing security forces. Considering this to be an intolerable breach of this pilot's honor and right to self-determination over the trivial matter of a small number of baseliner deaths, and preferring not to exert counter-pressure on respectable entities like I-RED or Akagi, we decided to reduce the credibility and potential impact of Sanxing sanctions by complete destruction of any and all of their in-space assets within our reach. After a flurry of declarations and counter-declarations, and a surprise engagement with Electus Matari forces during the second vulnerability period of Sanxing's Astrahus citadel over Lirsautton V, this operation is now concluded with the destruction of said citadel, as well as all of Sanxing customs offices in the Lirsautton system, to little or no opposition. Despite being among the opposing forces, we wish to extend our respect to Electus Matari, for its swift and surprising response. We also (grudgingly) commend Sanxing for the foresight of evacuating its citadel and other orbital hardware as soon as their destruction appeared certain, thus avoiding a great deal of graceless baseliner death. With this, we consider the matter concluded. "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 846	Posted - 2017.02.18 16:23:14 - [2] - Quote I would like to add my own acknowledgement of Electus Matari's bravery on the field, engaging both outgunned and outnumbered. It was good to see some of my old corp-mates in the field. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 337	Posted - 2017.02.18 17:23:31 - [3] - Quote For anyone reading who shares Sanxing's humanitarian priorities: An allied individual (who wasn't interested in being named) deployed an MTU net on our behalf to prevent oversized debris from reaching the atmosphere of Lirsautton V.
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 850	Posted - 2017.02.18 17:26:05 - [4] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: For anyone reading who shares Sanxing's humanitarian priorities: An allied individual (who wasn't interested in being named) deployed an MTU net on our behalf to prevent oversized debris from reaching the atmosphere of Lirsautton V. It's fine, we salvaged the wreck anyway We're not monsters. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 623	Posted - 2017.02.18 17:32:29 - [5] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: We're not monsters. We're monsters who need to recoup ammo costs. "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1035	Posted - 2017.02.18 18:27:50 - [6] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: For anyone reading who shares Sanxing's humanitarian priorities: An allied individual (who wasn't interested in being named) deployed an MTU net on our behalf to prevent oversized debris from reaching the atmosphere of Lirsautton V. You refused to help victims of the Butcher's atrocities because SFRIM wouldn't free them. Priorities. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1240	Posted - 2017.02.18 18:45:52 - [7] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: Kolodi Ramal wrote: For anyone reading who shares Sanxing's humanitarian priorities: An allied individual (who wasn't interested in being named) deployed an MTU net on our behalf to prevent oversized debris from reaching the atmosphere of Lirsautton V. You refused to help victims of the Butcher's atrocities because SFRIM wouldn't free them. Priorities. Why would anyone opposed to such things help Imperials feed the slave markets that fed the Clown in the first place? Don't be ridiculous.
Avio Yaken Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2276	Posted - 2017.02.18 19:09:18 - [8] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: Kolodi Ramal wrote: For anyone reading who shares Sanxing's humanitarian priorities: An allied individual (who wasn't interested in being named) deployed an MTU net on our behalf to prevent oversized debris from reaching the atmosphere of Lirsautton V. You refused to help victims of the Butcher's atrocities because SFRIM wouldn't free them. Priorities. Why would anyone opposed to such things help Imperials feed the slave markets that fed the Clown in the first place? Don't be ridiculous. Already with this slavery debate ****? (.___________________________________________.)/
James Syagrius Reclamation Technologies 1503	Posted - 2017.02.18 19:26:40 - [9] - Quote Jev North wrote: With this, we consider the matter concluded. Unfortunate, many also considered the matter closed. Until this statement. Such actions are seldom concluded cleanly or without cost. You would have done better to have enjoyed your victory in silence. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Zanzibar Heroshima Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 70	Posted - 2017.02.18 19:33:29 - [10] - Quote James Syagrius wrote: Jev North wrote: With this, we consider the matter concluded. Unfortunate, many also considered the matter closed. Until this statement. Such actions are seldom concluded cleanly or without cost. You would have done better to have enjoyed your victory in silence. Much like an Astrahus, words are cheap.
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 630	Posted - 2017.02.18 19:36:16 - [11] - Quote It's a statement of cessation of hostilities on our part. If you want to pursue this conflict further, well -- your decisions are your own. Although they, too, will have consequences. "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
Onesimus D Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 0	Posted - 2017.02.18 19:44:17 - [12] - Quote James Syagrius wrote: Jev North wrote: With this, we consider the matter concluded. Unfortunate, many also considered the matter closed. Until this statement. Such actions are seldom concluded cleanly or without cost. You would have done better to have enjoyed your victory in silence. That's nice.
Nameira Vanis-Tor Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 383	Posted - 2017.02.18 19:55:36 - [13] - Quote I was truly sad to see Minmatar loss of life and assets in this conflict. However I can respect Electus Matari for their valiant aid of their friends against overwhelming odds.
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 345	Posted - 2017.02.18 20:23:37 - [14] - Quote Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: I was truly sad to see Minmatar loss of life and assets in this conflict. However I can respect Electus Matari for their valiant aid of their friends against overwhelming odds. The absence of those who died can't be filled. As long as we live and longer, we'll be thankful to Electus Matari. Through a neutral party we made sure survivors were safeguarded and remains were retrieved. Family and clan funeral traditions are being facilitated.
Karmilla Strife Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 553	Posted - 2017.02.18 20:24:00 - [15] - Quote It's good to see old friends stick up for one of our own.
Khiel Yat Ojin Sanxing 5	Posted - 2017.02.18 20:31:08 - [16] - Quote I would also like to extend my thanks to the Electus Matari. A personGÇÖs honor can only be breached or magnified by their own choice of action, and by bravely flying as they did to our aid, against even an overwhelming show of force, they have demonstrated theirs to be both true and courageous.
Syenna Celeste Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 39	Posted - 2017.02.18 20:37:44 - [17] - Quote Khiel Yat Ojin wrote: I would also like to extend my thanks to the Electus Matari. A personGÇÖs honor can only be breached or magnified by their own choice of action, and by bravely flying as they did to our aid, against even an overwhelming show of force, they have demonstrated theirs to be both true and courageous. Hear hear. A well chosen ally and a fine opponent. Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3040	Posted - 2017.02.18 21:22:42 - [18] - Quote It is still unclear, what pilot honor was under question and what sort of crimes did he or she commit? Were they real crimes or slanders? Shouldn't the crimes be investigated first before making decisions? I don't know about Akagi policies, but in Caldari State corporations very thoroughly study candidatures, especially if they were known to change allegiance, and all alleged claims about any of their crimes are investigated. Of course I am not saying that Akagi should follow Caldari protocols (more to show that Caldari system is more efficient than Akagi's). What I am going to say, that considering the message that was delivered is looking as a justification or even an excuse for the initiated attack, hiding core facts look more than suspicious. And while I applaud for the destruction of any Federal-aligned property, I do question ulterior motives of such attack, because, honestly, it looks at the moment mere as a typical pirate extortion attempt, hidden behind unverifiable words. If you don't like that form of.... aura, maybe you could provide us with more information about the case, so the readers of IGS could make the judgment based on facts, and not words. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
DeadRow Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 299	Posted - 2017.02.18 21:49:07 - [19] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: honestly, it looks at the moment mere as a typical pirate extortion attempt, hidden behind unverifiable words. If we wanted to extort something out of Sanxing surely we would have done so before we blew up their stuff? No, a pilot in good standing with us was slighted so we took appropriate action as we saw fit. -Hikari
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3043	Posted - 2017.02.18 21:53:52 - [20] - Quote DeadRow wrote: Diana Kim wrote: honestly, it looks at the moment mere as a typical pirate extortion attempt, hidden behind unverifiable words. If we wanted to extort something out of Sanxing surely we would have done so before we blew up their stuff? No, a pilot in good standing with us was slighted so we took appropriate action as we saw fit. -Hikari It still doesn't answer the questions. Please don't prevaricate and give us some facts. Who was it? What did he or she do? Was it investigated? What did investigation show? Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Syenna Celeste Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 41	Posted - 2017.02.18 22:00:24 - [21] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Please don't prevaricate and give us some facts. Miss Kim, We will not be pandering to the court of public opinion on this matter. We've outlined the action that was taken, and that is all the explanation that we feel is owed. You may have better luck contacting MITG pilots privately. Regards, Celeste. Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.
Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 1283	Posted - 2017.02.18 22:01:06 - [22] - Quote While I can't speak to that, Diana, as I believe such details are up to my superiors and those directly involved first hand. I can speak to something more direct. To add on to what was already stated by Sanxing and others, the orbital infrastructure in question was all evacuated at the time of destruction. There was some movement detected by sensors but according to the logs we took it was purely automated processes. Trams, assembly lines, cargo tubes, and the like. For any interested parties I took detailed sensor logs both before, during, and after the final bombardment. Sensor logs before and after the attack were from high powered sensor suites on board my personal Buzzard class scout ship. During the bombardment however, fleet protocol had me in a Raven class battleship. And as such while those logs can be provided they are not as conclusive as the other ship logs available. Additionally, biomass surveys of the wreckage from the Noctis ship I commanded that we had scouring the site confirmed no humanoid biomass save for spare unactivated clones, food stores, and various animal life that was not evacuated for reasons unknown. Additional compliments to Sanxing for the deployment of the MTU, as we were not able to have salvage ships on site as soon as the Astrahus was destroyed. Their thinking probably saved the inhabitants of Lirsautton V from needless debris showers over the next several weeks.
Khiel Yat Ojin Sanxing 11	Posted - 2017.02.18 22:25:25 - [23] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: and various animal life that was not evacuated for reasons unknown. Ah, I would put that down to a misplaced Fedo population that had taken up their homes within vents of the lower levels, the dealing with which was abandoned due to evacuation efforts, along with micro-fauna brought into for the development of healthy maturation of various eco-spaces we had under construction. Livestock in transit and companion animals were, to my knowledge, all safely evacuated along with baseliner inhabitants responsible for them.
Evi Polevhia True Slave Foundations Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 1285	Posted - 2017.02.18 22:39:26 - [24] - Quote Khiel Yat Ojin wrote: Evi Polevhia wrote: and various animal life that was not evacuated for reasons unknown. Ah, I would put that down to a misplaced Fedo population that had taken up their homes within vents of the lower levels, the dealing with which was abandoned due to evacuation efforts, along with micro-fauna brought into for the development of healthy maturation of various eco-spaces we had under construction. Livestock in transit and companion animals were, to my knowledge, all safely evacuated along with baseliner inhabitants responsible for them. Thank you for the clarification on the matter, sir.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 330	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:12:29 - [25] - Quote Jev North wrote: Shortly after one of our former brothers in Pyre joined the Akagi Initiative, currently under contract with the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, his former CEO Taisho Xun Yu of Sanxing [SANXI] attempted to exert diplomatic pressure on Akagi Initiative to fire said pilot, citing alleged earlier crimes against Sanxing security forces. Considering this to be an intolerable breach of this pilot's honor and right to self-determination over the trivial matter of a small number of baseliner deaths, and preferring not to exert counter-pressure on respectable entities like I-RED or Akagi, we decided instead to reduce the credibility and potential impact of Sanxing sanctions by complete destruction of any and all of their in-space assets within our reach. In all honesty, it just sounds like you wanted an excuse to pad the killboards with a relatively undefended Astrahaus because preying on sheep is easier as a starving wolf. Does I-RED always war-dec people who hurt their feelings or just humanitarian organizations? Is it really worth defending the honor of a whining criminal who's incapable of claiming responsibility for his actions? Would you like the records proving him responsible for his "alleged" crimes? Would you really sit there and destroy an entire Citadel because somebody hurt your feewings? Really? You want to know a response to diplomatic pressure you could have used instead of flinging ships at the problem? "No." Don't hide this under some shame of honoring another pilot's dignity. It's just a thinly veneered attempt at rationalizing more generic Capsuleer bloodlust. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 636	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:23:52 - [26] - Quote Are you speaking these accusations in any kind of official capacity for SFRIM? "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 334	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:30:23 - [27] - Quote Jev North wrote: Are you speaking these accusations in any kind of official capacity for SFRIM? You're avoiding the points I made with the hope that with either way I answer, you can either blow me off (if unofficial) or threaten me (official). Could you imagine, for just a moment, the reason a man in a humanitarian organization would critique the corporation responsible for the destruction of another humanitarian organization? I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1035	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:33:56 - [28] - Quote SFRIM is a humanitarian organization now? Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Zanzibar Heroshima Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 73	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:35:14 - [29] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Jev North wrote: Are you speaking these accusations in any kind of official capacity for SFRIM? You're avoiding the points I made with the hope that with either way I answer, you can either blow me off (if unofficial) or threaten me (official). Could you imagine, for just a moment, the reason a man in a humanitarian organization would critique the corporation responsible for the destruction of another humanitarian organization? Mr. Schmidt, your answer to Ms. North's question depends upon whether or not we give you the time of day, I humbly ask you answer it.
Julianni Avala Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 142	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:36:05 - [30] - Quote It would be appreciated if I-RED was kept out of this accusation Mister Schmidt, as we are not aligned with the Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group, and were not in any way a part of their original war declaration. Their decision to go to war so was their own. We will not speak on behalf of Akagi's decision for their actions, as they are employed by us through a contract and they have their own decisions that they make. I-RED has it's own reasons for the war that have been communicated to the effected party itself and no outside parties, as it should be.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 338	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:40:46 - [31] - Quote Julianni Avala wrote: It would be appreciated if I-RED was kept out of this accusation Mister Schmidt, as we are not aligned with the Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group, and were not in any way a part of their original war declaration. Their decision to go to war so was their own. We will not speak on behalf of Akagi's decision for their actions, as they are employed by us through a contract and they have their own decisions that they make. I-RED has it's own reasons for the war that have been communicated to the effected party itself and no outside parties, as it should be. My apologies in that, then. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors up about the whole sort of thing, and I don't mean to implicate those who'd have their reasons - no matter how petty, honestly - to keep it in-shop. Regardless, though, it doesn't stop me from my judgments, which of I have many. Hey Look, I'm Threatening wrote: Mr. Schmidt, your answer to Ms. North's question depends upon whether or not we give you the time of day, I humbly ask you answer it. I'm glad you could humbly give me the time of day. How kind of you, really. It's a public thread. That's my answer. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1036	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:43:43 - [32] - Quote I will say, generally speaking, I miss the time when someone could make a post on their own thoughts and feelings without someone asking if it was the official position of the organization they happened to be a part of. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Zanzibar Heroshima Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 73	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:44:48 - [33] - Quote Hey look, I can edit text strings too wrote: I'm glad you could humbly give me the time of day. How kind of you, really. It's a public thread. That's my answer. So you aren't speaking in an official capacity, got it. Please refer to the original statement.
Alex Hinkelmann Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 158	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:49:46 - [34] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: My apologies in that, then. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors up about the whole sort of thing, and I don't mean to implicate those who'd have their reasons - no matter how petty, honestly - to keep it in-shop. Regardless, though, it doesn't stop me from my judgments, which of I have many. You are free to judge others on this public forum, I only ask you make educated judgements rather then assumptions. Ishukone-Raata is content to keep the matter between us and Sanxing as it should be. This will be our last communique on the matter at this time. Rikaato. I-RED Executor \|\| Operation Grey Steel© Overseer \|\| Syndicate Stability Initiative II©
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 339	Posted - 2017.02.18 23:53:17 - [35] - Quote Alex Hinkelmann wrote: Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: My apologies in that, then. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors up about the whole sort of thing, and I don't mean to implicate those who'd have their reasons - no matter how petty, honestly - to keep it in-shop. Regardless, though, it doesn't stop me from my judgments, which of I have many. You are free to judge others on this public forum, I only ask you make educated judgements rather then assumptions. Ishukone-Raata is content to keep the matter between us and Sanxing as it should be. This will be our last communique on the matter at this time. Rikaato. Just working off what was presented by the original poster. Thanks for taking the time to respond in a productive manner, at any rate. It is appreciated, for however much it's worth from a GalNet stranger such as myself. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1559	Posted - 2017.02.19 00:11:05 - [36] - Quote Nice to see an alliance I once found respectable infected by open True Sansha loyalists. The rest of this thread is a bunch of virtue signalling, or chest beating. Not really any different from any other day on the IGS... "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1036	Posted - 2017.02.19 00:12:07 - [37] - Quote You forgot snarking and sniping. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Desiderya Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 1188	Posted - 2017.02.19 00:17:23 - [38] - Quote Well, a refreshing reminder that some bonds last longer than formal employment contracts and a nice treatise on the value of friendship. Shame for people who got cought in the crossfire but it does look like a situation good leadership could have averted and mitigated. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 640	Posted - 2017.02.19 01:12:26 - [39] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: I will say, generally speaking, I miss the time when someone could make a post on their own thoughts and feelings without someone asking if it was the official position of the organization they happened to be a part of. A great many people are having a great deal of thoughts and feelings over all of this. I'm only trying to sort out which ones I need to pay attention to. "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
James Syagrius Reclamation Technologies 1510	Posted - 2017.02.19 02:00:19 - [40] - Quote Alex Hinkelmann wrote: Ishukone-Raata is content to keep the matter between us and Sanxing as it should be. I think we are well past that. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Liara Enith Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 21	Posted - 2017.02.19 02:09:33 - [41] - Quote As a former MCF1B member it does truly make me smile to see such a shining example of our continuing comradery. If a few baseliners had to perish for the point to be made, then ehh, so be it.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1039	Posted - 2017.02.19 03:16:59 - [42] - Quote Jev North wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: I will say, generally speaking, I miss the time when someone could make a post on their own thoughts and feelings without someone asking if it was the official position of the organization they happened to be a part of. A great many people are having a great deal of thoughts and feelings over all of this. I'm only trying to sort out which ones I need to pay attention to. Yeah, I understand that. Everyone's got an opinion. I myself have no official position on this, either as Lady Newelle's Director of Public Affairs, or as the SERAPH Commander. I have many unofficial opinions though! Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3043	Posted - 2017.02.19 03:33:57 - [43] - Quote James Syagrius wrote: Alex Hinkelmann wrote: Ishukone-Raata is content to keep the matter between us and Sanxing as it should be. I think we are well past that. I agree since it has been posted here. We demand details! Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1039	Posted - 2017.02.19 03:36:47 - [44] - Quote I-RED: "We're going to keep what happened private." Diana Kim: "But you posted in public, so now you have to tell me." Kim-haani. You owe me a new ******* control panel. Mine is covered in tea. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3045	Posted - 2017.02.19 04:13:38 - [45] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: I-RED: "We're going to keep what happened private." Diana Kim: "But you posted in public, so now you have to tell me." Kim-haani. You owe me a new ******* control panel. Mine is covered in tea. Guilty. I admit! Even in the Academy I was punished too often for the curiosity and putting my nose where it didn't belong. I will gladly recompense you the panel, but please help me make them spill it out! Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1040	Posted - 2017.02.19 04:34:34 - [46] - Quote Let me ask you for your opinioned answer to this question: does I-RED, a Caldari Alliance, need a reason to go shoot at a Gallente corp? Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 9183	Posted - 2017.02.19 04:45:51 - [47] - Quote Alizabeth, you know full well the answer to that. Kim would sing Blaque's praises if it happened to besmirch those she considers traitors to her very particular variety of the Caldari way. Actually, we may be onto something. Satirical musical of a goose-stepping Kim? "Springtime for Hee-eeeth and the Caldari! Winter for Gallente and Blaaaaque!" Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3045	Posted - 2017.02.19 05:15:03 - [48] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: Let me ask you for your opinioned answer to this question: does I-RED, a Caldari Alliance, need a reason to go shoot at a Gallente corp? They're as much Caldari as Jaqus Roden is Imperial. There is a reason for everything. There is a reason for Caldari to attack Gallente. And I guess there were reasons for I-RED to betray the State and sign treaty with Gallente. After such episodes it really doesn't look like they would attack anything just "becasue it is Gallente". Heck, even someone as myself, whom a lot of people know as intolerant to Federation and their lapdogs, wouldn't simply attack something just because it is "Gallente". Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3045	Posted - 2017.02.19 05:15:51 - [49] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: Alizabeth, you know full well the answer to that. Kim would sing Blaque's praises if it happened to besmirch those she considers traitors to her very particular variety of the Caldari way. Actually, we may be onto something. Satirical musical of a goose-stepping Kim? "Springtime for Hee-eeeth and the Caldari! Winter for Gallente and Blaaaaque!" And I see that Priano hnolku tyuui again opens her lying mouth about me. Looks like she simply can't change. To the rest of readers I'd like to remind that Makoto Priano is already known as a liar, who decided to lose her honor instead of standing for her slanderous words: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560 Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1040	Posted - 2017.02.19 05:22:39 - [50] - Quote Empress Jamyl give me strength. You two. You fight more than my children do! They're twelve and ten and have an excuse. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3046	Posted - 2017.02.19 05:33:56 - [51] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: Empress Jamyl give me strength. You two. You fight more than my children do! They're twelve and ten and have an excuse. I do not seek to fight with that disgusting liar Makoto Priano, as I think she already sank in a mud hole after I pointed her to that direction. But I won't stand her attempts at spreading more slanders against me or our glorious State and will step on her head each time she will pop it out it to say another stupid thing about me or our State. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1040	Posted - 2017.02.19 05:42:41 - [52] - Quote Kim-hanni. Go to your room. Think about what you've done. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Korsavius Revenent Defence Corperation 366	Posted - 2017.02.19 07:27:37 - [53] - Quote I am deeply disappointed with how this situation has settled. As a life-long Caldari, I find it both extremely distasteful and offensive that the sole justification for perpetrating these blatant acts of opportunistic greed and violence was the supposedly tainted "honor" of one individual. The subsequent actions taken by MTG and friends is a mockery of true honor, not the support of it. How dare you all appropriate a traditional and core value of Caldari society to justify these actions when much more appropriate alternatives could have and should have taken place first. And even if somehow the individual's honor was put into question by Sanxing, why does it matter? They are a Gallente-based corporation, and interaction with them can be ceased and no one would ever notice the loss. They may try to crawl into State territory shouting about this individual's dishonor and their shouts would fall upon rolling eyes and unreceptive ears. This is such a trivial and profoundly weak reason to try and justify reckless violence. I have my sources, and I am deeply disturbed how quickly these declarations of war went into effect without exploring more sensible options beforehand. I am ashamed of my former employer for not following a just protocol and series of actions to investigate the claims put forth by Sanxing before escalating to a full blown war on behalf of Akagi. Ishukone is renown for being the most progressive megacorporation in terms of advancing a mutually beneficial and healthy relationship with our Federation neighbors. I-RED was founded upon the spirit and ideals set forth by the honorable Gariushi - who came closer than any other man in the history of the Caldari State to mending the wounds of old and creating a lasting peace between our two peoples. The rushed and immature decision to declare war on the prominent Sanxing without first exploring the various alternatives is a betrayal of those ideals. It is a betrayal of what I-RED stands for. It is a betrayal of Ishukone. Alex, my friend, how could you let this happen? Utari Onzo wrote: Nice to see an alliance I once found respectable infected by open True Sansha loyalists. I strongly urge you to re-evaluate your understanding of the working contract that exists between I-RED and Akagi. Akagi is a completely autonomous entity operating under the legal banner of I-RED. The purpose of Akagi formally being in I-RED is to facilitate simplified logistics and handling of security contracts issued by I-RED or outside clients. Akagi, while formally operating under the banner of I-RED, is not I-RED. They have no seat on the I-RED Board of Directors, and I-RED, in turn, has no say outside the security contracts it issues in how Akagi chooses to operate or function. Cold Wind's Blade \|\| Follow I-RED on Google+!
Alex Hinkelmann Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 163	Posted - 2017.02.19 07:44:56 - [54] - Quote Korsavius wrote: I-RED was founded upon the spirit and ideals set forth by the honorable Gariushi - who came closer than any other man in the history of the Caldari State to mending the wounds of old and creating a lasting peace between our two peoples. The rushed and immature decision to declare war on the prominent Sanxing without first exploring the various alternatives is a betrayal of those ideals. It is a betrayal of what I-RED stands for. It is a betrayal of Ishukone. Alex, my friend, how could you let this happen? Lavius-haan, while you may have been informed on the matter it is clear you're missing key information. Ishukone-Raata was given an ultimatum to complete within a remarkably short time period, diplomacy was our strategy and still is. Other actors drew blades for their own purposes, we drew ours for our own. I-RED Executor \|\| Operation Grey Steel© Overseer \|\| Syndicate Stability Initiative II©
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 642	Posted - 2017.02.19 07:48:51 - [55] - Quote Korsavius wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: Nice to see an alliance I once found respectable infected by open True Sansha loyalists. I strongly urge you to re-evaluate your understanding of the working contract that exists between I-RED and Akagi. Akagi is a completely autonomous entity operating under the legal banner of I-RED. The purpose of Akagi formally being in I-RED is to facilitate simplified logistics and handling of security contracts issued by I-RED or outside clients. Akagi, while formally operating under the banner of I-RED, is not I-RED. They have no seat on the I-RED Board of Directors, and I-RED, in turn, has no say outside the security contracts it issues in how Akagi chooses to operate or function. Pilot Onzo is referring to TS-F's presence in the Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group, although it is interesting that you instantly believed an incorrect interpretation of the words of an unrelated capsuleer over, say, the judgment of Akagi itself, or your peers in I-RED. Your further errors of reading comprehension include your claim honour -- not an uniquely Caldari virtue -- was our sole reason for doing this. We weighed as much or even more heavily this pilot's right to self-determination, in this case, the ability to freely associate with Akagi on their terms, not ones dictated by a former employer parted from under poor circumstances. "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 356	Posted - 2017.02.19 07:52:57 - [56] - Quote Alex Hinkelmann wrote: Lavius-haan, while you may have been informed on the matter it is clear you're missing key information. Ishukone-Raata was given an ultimatum to complete within a remarkably short time period, diplomacy was our strategy and still is. Other actors drew blades for their own purposes, we drew ours for our own. Negligence is not an absolution of responsibility. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Alex Hinkelmann Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 165	Posted - 2017.02.19 08:04:32 - [57] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Alex Hinkelmann wrote: Other actors drew blades for their own purposes, we drew ours for our own. Negligence is not an absolution of responsibility. I seek no absolution, I've already acknowledged my failures and carry the burden they bring. As should other parties. I-RED Executor \|\| Operation Grey Steel© Overseer \|\| Syndicate Stability Initiative II©
Wren Villeneuve Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 57	Posted - 2017.02.19 08:50:32 - [58] - Quote Korsavius wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: Nice to see an alliance I once found respectable infected by open True Sansha loyalists. I strongly urge you to re-evaluate your understanding of the working contract that exists between I-RED and Akagi. Akagi is a completely autonomous entity operating under the legal banner of I-RED. The purpose of Akagi formally being in I-RED is to facilitate simplified logistics and handling of security contracts issued by I-RED or outside clients. Akagi, while formally operating under the banner of I-RED, is not I-RED. They have no seat on the I-RED Board of Directors, and I-RED, in turn, has no say outside the security contracts it issues in how Akagi chooses to operate or function. Unless there's been something Saya hasn't been telling me, I think you have a little bit of misunderstanding here. For our part, as soon as a pilot is in our care, that's what matters - We will fight to the death to protect you. We were given a, frankly, unacceptable ultimatum by Sanxing and pushed for war on the basis that we knew we were not going to partially comply with the ultimatum. Now, I'm not a Caldari, myself. I'm not even a very good Gallentean. I come from a whole other breed. I come from the breed where when someone talks down to you, you have a responsibility to take them outside and show them the errors of their ways. After the fight is done, you buy each other drinks and settle it. I have no personal grudge against Sanxing, its leadership, and ESPECIALLY not its line members. How Sanxing (the corporation) and Friends chooses to react to this is entirely up to them. So far I have not been impressed.
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1565	Posted - 2017.02.19 10:17:19 - [59] - Quote To be fair it's mostly the "friends" who weren't involved in the operation in the slightest on either side throwing their two isk in. I could care less the business of two corporations conducting affairs by gunboat. I care that an alliance I respected once now holds a pack of Nation loyalists and apologists, which leads to a lot more difficult questions of why. A pilot's skillset and capability is one thing, but freely ignoring their ultimate ties of loyalty as if it didn't matter in the slightest? MITG's choices are their own, but it should expect such choices to be considered by others and have long term implications on how others might view them. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1246	Posted - 2017.02.19 10:22:51 - [60] - Quote Now now Utari. Noticing those little things like loyalties to Sansha's Nation etc is just inconvenient. You're such a meanie and a bully for taking such things into account. Or that was the prevailing attitudes the last time the locusts swarmed.
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 856	Posted - 2017.02.19 10:50:23 - [61] - Quote Please Mizhara. I'd love for you to provide some evidence of anyone involved accusing anyone else of bullying for pointing out allegiances. The pilots of TS-F and those of us who have chosen to fly with them, both currently and in the past, are well aware of the hand wringing and cries of "consequence!" from others. I for one, am eagerly awaiting such an event. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 1964	Posted - 2017.02.19 11:21:32 - [62] - Quote Normally, my 0.02 isk would be to say "down with this sort of thing", however, given the incomplete information about what this was actually all about, I would need to alter this. So I say, up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B,A, with this sort of thing. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Masuyo Yuan Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 4	Posted - 2017.02.19 11:39:43 - [63] - Quote There's not much to add from our POV to the statement Jev North made on behalf of MITG. We still stand for pilots that have served their time and left in good standings and will attempt to provide assistance where applicable. Given that Sanxing's inappropriate ultimatum and treatment of the pilot in question also involved Akagi Initative the opportunity to strengthen nascent diplomatic ties arose and the decision to join the surprise attack less than 72 hours afterwards was swiftly felled. Sanxing are welcome to rebuild in Lirsautton once the CONCORD mandated war is over. Now that the slap on the wrist has been delivered the matter is seen as settled.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3046	Posted - 2017.02.19 11:42:37 - [64] - Quote Still, who was the pilot in question? What did it do? Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 378	Posted - 2017.02.19 12:08:01 - [65] - Quote Probably was going around Yakening things up, as usual.
Rossanjiin Eskeitan Guri Raiders 21	Posted - 2017.02.19 14:26:32 - [66] - Quote Korsavius wrote: I am deeply disappointed with how this situation has settled. As a life-long Caldari, I find it both extremely distasteful and offensive that the sole justification for perpetrating these blatant acts of opportunistic greed and violence was the supposedly tainted "honor" of one individual. The subsequent actions taken by MTG and friends is a mockery of true honor, not the support of it. How dare you all appropriate a traditional and core value of Caldari society to justify these actions when much more appropriate alternatives could have and should have taken place first. And even if somehow the individual's honor was put into question by Sanxing, why does it matter? They are a Gallente-based corporation, and interaction with them can be ceased and no one would ever notice the loss. They may try to crawl into State territory shouting about this individual's dishonor and their shouts would fall upon rolling eyes and unreceptive ears. This is such a trivial and profoundly weak reason to try and justify reckless violence. I have my sources, and I am deeply disturbed how quickly these declarations of war went into effect without exploring more sensible options beforehand. I am ashamed of my former employer for not following a just protocol and series of actions to investigate the claims put forth by Sanxing before escalating to a full blown war on behalf of Akagi. Ishukone is renown for being the most progressive megacorporation in terms of advancing a mutually beneficial and healthy relationship with our Federation neighbors. I-RED was founded upon the spirit and ideals set forth by the honorable Gariushi - who came closer than any other man in the history of the Caldari State to mending the wounds of old and creating a lasting peace between our two peoples. The rushed and immature decision to declare war on the prominent Sanxing without first exploring the various alternatives is a betrayal of those ideals. It is a betrayal of what I-RED stands for. It is a betrayal of Ishukone. Alex, my friend, how could you let this happen? Whew! That was ruthless. Calling out your own buddies in such a public atmosphere and taking the high ground. I'd say we may have a place for you in our organization, but even we take care of our own and don't do the whole public backstabbing. Crazy, it looks like you've gone even lower than us. I like you. You're brutal.
Korsavius Revenent Defence Corperation 374	Posted - 2017.02.19 22:07:03 - [67] - Quote Get lost Guri garbage. Anyone who truly knows me knows that this wouldn't be the first time I called out my corporation or home nation on their wrongdoings. Heiian guides me, and Heiian demands it. My statements were not to position myself to take the high ground, they were a call for the current leadership of I-RED to remember who they are and what they stand for. Cold Wind's Blade \|\| Follow I-RED on Google+!
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 380	Posted - 2017.02.19 22:36:13 - [68] - Quote Why are you so sure you truly know who they are, maybe this is them and you just had wrong impression from the start.
Korsavius Revenent Defence Corperation 374	Posted - 2017.02.19 22:41:26 - [69] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Why are you so sure you truly know who they are, maybe this is them and you just had wrong impression from the start. I know because I served in I-RED leadership for the majority of my capsuleer career. Cold Wind's Blade \|\| Follow I-RED on Google+!
Rossanjiin Eskeitan Guri Raiders 26	Posted - 2017.02.19 22:49:00 - [70] - Quote Korsavius wrote: Get lost Guri garbage. Anyone who truly knows me knows that this wouldn't be the first time I called out my corporation or home nation on their wrongdoings. Heiian guides me, and Heiian demands it. My statements were not to position myself to take the high ground, they were a call for the current leadership of I-RED to remember who they are and what they stand for. So you're saying you've done this before. Neat. Ashlar Vellum wrote: Why are you so sure you truly know who they are, maybe this is them and you just had wrong impression from the start. This is a great point. In truth, we really don't know who someone truly is until they show it for themselves. Which...Korsavius, you seem to be doing. I wouldn't say you're doing it well. A bit of advice from your new Guri garbage best friend (because I'm a nice guy): Careful with how quick you are to point out others' flaws, unless you're ready for people to bring out your own in full, relentless view.
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 381	Posted - 2017.02.19 22:49:08 - [71] - Quote Korsavius wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Why are you so sure you truly know who they are, maybe this is them and you just had wrong impression from the start. I know because I served in I-RED leadership for the majority of my capsuleer career. Time passes people change or again wrong impressions from the start, is it really so impossible?
Merchant Rova Pathway to the Next 229	Posted - 2017.02.20 07:04:29 - [72] - Quote All I see is a dressed up way of saying "we killed a mostly undefended citadel to pad our killboard". This might be the strangest way I've seen someone avoid the "no posting killmails" rule. Glory to Bob
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 646	Posted - 2017.02.20 07:33:26 - [73] - Quote Merchant Rova wrote: "we killed a mostly undefended citadel to pad our killboard" Mm. Amusing accusation. Not the first time I've heard it. If anything, we were severely disappointed with the failure of Taisho Xun Yu's allies to show past the second timer. The MITG kill record is beyond salvaging with cheap Astrahus kills. We don't care about numbers; we care about projecting power. "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
Merchant Rova Pathway to the Next 229	Posted - 2017.02.20 08:15:54 - [74] - Quote Jev North wrote: We don't care about numbers; we care about projecting power. I think you're serious, so I'll laugh harder. Kicking over a single highsec citadel doesn't make you powerful nor good pilots. I'm sure you're just as elite as Marmite or Vendeta. Glory to Bob
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 646	Posted - 2017.02.20 08:21:43 - [75] - Quote Who in their right mind would want to be Marmite? We've achieved objectives and left any opposition to, at best, stutter impotent and pointless accusations on the IGS. That's quite enough. "The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy GÇö everything."
Mika Firestorm Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics 45	Posted - 2017.02.20 08:36:23 - [76] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: Kim-hanni. Go to your room. Think about what you've done. Spank her! No, really, do it. I think sometimes she just does stuff only for someone to catch her and punish. What is even worse, she won't stop while she is formally right, even disregarding that morally she might be terribly wrong. Until someone will catch her and spank, of course. *State the nature of your medical emergency*
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1051	Posted - 2017.02.20 09:22:30 - [77] - Quote Uhhhhhhh. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 356	Posted - 2017.02.20 09:58:31 - [78] - Quote Jev North wrote: If anything, we were severely disappointed with the failure of Taisho Xun Yu's allies to show past the second timer. Our allies were ready to keep at it but I asked them not to. Considering how long the odds against us had proven to be, the hardware wasn't worth spending any more lives to defend.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1053	Posted - 2017.02.20 18:38:27 - [79] - Quote Right. Strike Commander Kim. You are ordered to fill one hundred sandbags with 2.25 kilograms of silica sand. You are allowed a standard deviation of 6 grams. I suggest you get a scale. The bags shall be stacked in a pyramid type fashion for inspection NLT 2000 25.2YC119 at a location of your choosing within the borders of the Caldari State. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7116	Posted - 2017.02.20 18:55:42 - [80] - Quote Shame to see the amount of hand wringing and breast beating over something as simple and common as diplomacy by other means. I see many people who simply ought to know better - on both sides - trying to dress what happened up. I wish they would all cease and desist, or at least be more honest and forthcoming about their agenda and motivations. You can dig as deeply as you like - for myself there was simply a sanctimonious Gallente offering an old and respectable Caldari corporation something as crass as an ultimatum with the promise of "consequences". There were, no doubt, other responses that could have been made, but freeze me if there was anything wrong with a little punitive "asset denial". For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1256	Posted - 2017.02.20 19:04:58 - [81] - Quote Yes, silencing uncomfortable people with violence is pretty much a tradition out here, isn't it? So much 'hand wringing' and 'breast beating' over simple violent thuggery, tsk tsk.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1054	Posted - 2017.02.20 19:19:49 - [82] - Quote Pearl clutching. You forgot pearl clutching. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1256	Posted - 2017.02.20 19:22:11 - [83] - Quote And I don't even have a fainting couch handy.
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 361	Posted - 2017.02.20 19:29:55 - [84] - Quote For the record, Sanxing had no intention of using violence against Akagi/I-RED. Our "unacceptable ultimatum": dismiss the disputed individual from the shelter of Akagi/I-RED within seven days. Our measured and civilized idea of consequences: public release of the details of what the individual did and no possibility of positive relations with I-RED in the future. (By now people can piece together from this thread what was done and by whom anyway.)
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 1971	Posted - 2017.02.20 19:48:57 - [85] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: (By now people can piece together from this thread what was done and by whom anyway.) They can ? But that sounds like effort. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1054	Posted - 2017.02.20 19:54:01 - [86] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: And I don't even have a fainting couch handy. I have one, and cute Ni-Kunni interns to fan me when I get the vapors. I should start selling pearl necklaces. I could make a fortune in the high-sec capsuleer market. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7118	Posted - 2017.02.20 20:05:31 - [87] - Quote Mika Firestorm wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: Kim-hanni. Go to your room. Think about what you've done. Spank her! No, really, do it. I think sometimes she just does stuff only for someone to catch her and punish. What is even worse, she won't stop while she is formally right, even disregarding that morally she might be terribly wrong. Until someone will catch her and spank, of course. Phrasing For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7118	Posted - 2017.02.20 20:15:21 - [88] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Yes, silencing uncomfortable people with violence is pretty much a tradition out here, isn't it? So much 'hand wringing' and 'breast beating' over simple violent thuggery, tsk tsk. What's hilarious is a Monster accusing me and my kirjuun of being violent thugs. Yes, we are. Yes, YOU are. Pretty much everyone who has spoken is. You're capsuleers. You kill for money. You kill for status. You kill for friends. You kill for hate. You kill for love. You kill for fun. Winds help me, many of you kill because you can. Now these people you apparently approve of were killed because they threatened someone who answered those threats in a way that seems to have been unanticipated. I'm amazed it was unanticipated. I'm not surprised it ended the way it ended. I am incredibly surprised that hired killers, criminals and paramilitaries are so shocked, though. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1260	Posted - 2017.02.20 20:38:40 - [89] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Yes, silencing uncomfortable people with violence is pretty much a tradition out here, isn't it? So much 'hand wringing' and 'breast beating' over simple violent thuggery, tsk tsk. What's hilarious is a Monster accusing me and my kirjuun of being violent thugs. Yes, we are. Yes, YOU are. Pretty much everyone who has spoken is. You're capsuleers. You kill for money. You kill for status. You kill for friends. You kill for hate. You kill for love. You kill for fun. Winds help me, many of you kill because you can. Now these people you apparently approve of were killed because they threatened someone who answered those threats in a way that seems to have been unanticipated. I'm amazed it was unanticipated. I'm not surprised it ended the way it ended. I am incredibly surprised that hired killers, criminals and paramilitaries are so shocked, though. Nothing shocking nor unexpected about it. This is pretty much exactly what I expected, given the histories of the people involved and what's been made public here. The thing is though, that's not what the shameless pretense earlier on says, is it? "Oh my, the 'honor' of one of our locusts was impugned, blah blah" and so on isn't exactly the truth, is it? The simple fact of the matter is that diplomatic words were met with violence and topped off with a nice little chest beating cherry on top. The justification, "oh no, someone actually threatened to say something mean but true about someone! TO WAR!". This is not the norm, no matter how much you like to pretend everyone else is as devoid of decency as you claim. These people, like the targets or those who came to their aid, are demonstrably people who don't take such measures and when you look around highsec there's a hell of a lot more of them than there are of us 'monsters'. They just don't get the same notoriety or screentime, since they're quite simply a lot more boring. They do constitute more of a norm than what's been on display right here, and you pretending otherwise is disingenuous at best. Be a monster, I don't really care as I'm not much better in that regard myself. Just stop trying to drag the rest of New Eden down with us, because we really aren't the norm. That's the difference here, and the reason you and yours deserve little more than loathing. You're not even capable of being honest anymore.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7118	Posted - 2017.02.20 21:29:07 - [90] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Nothing shocking nor unexpected about it. This is pretty much exactly what I expected, given the histories of the people involved and what's been made public here. The thing is though, that's not what the shameless pretense earlier on says, is it? "Oh my, the 'honor' of one of our locusts was impugned, blah blah" and so on isn't exactly the truth, is it? Yes, yes. And you kill Amarr for 'liberty' you filthy terrorist. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: The simple fact of the matter is that diplomatic words were met with violence and topped off with a nice little chest beating cherry on top. The justification, "oh no, someone actually threatened to say something mean but true about someone! TO WAR!". This is not the norm, no matter how much you like to pretend everyone else is as devoid of decency as you claim. These people, like the targets or those who came to their aid, are demonstrably people who don't take such measures and when you look around highsec there's a hell of a lot more of them than there are of us 'monsters'. an ultimatum is chest beating. The ultimatum came with a hard deadline and vague consequences. I-Red and Akagi decided to go to war once the deadline for the ultimatum expired - this was felt to be a proper response to the fact that a filthy foreigner felt he could make demands and threats like that. Now we're told the consequences were economic. Well, given the lack of casualties, one could say that this is true on both sides. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: They just don't get the same notoriety or screentime, since they're quite simply a lot more boring. They do constitute more of a norm than what's been on display right here, and you pretending otherwise is disingenuous at best. Be a monster, I don't really care as I'm not much better in that regard myself. Just stop trying to drag the rest of New Eden down with us, because we really aren't the norm. That's the difference here, and the reason you and yours deserve little more than loathing. You're not even capable of being honest anymore. I think you have so much blood in your eyes that you don't even know what truth is, anymore, Miz. If you don't know me well enough to know I've been honest with you, damned if your opinion about me matters all that much. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1265	Posted - 2017.02.20 21:44:49 - [91] - Quote I'm a monster, Pieter. This isn't news and not an argument that wins you any points. So are you and particularly certain associates of yours. The reason I consider you dishonest is that you claim your targets and other such entities are just as bad as we are. This is demonstrably not true and smacks all too much of an attempt to justify yourself by dragging those better people down so they suddenly become 'valid' targets. If you think you've been honest with me, then you're being dishonest with yourself.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3049	Posted - 2017.02.20 21:51:08 - [92] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Probably was going around Yakening things up, as usual. If you are right, then it is explainable why they don't want to give details. They have said they were defending honor, but Yaken is the one who doesn't have it, he is the one of the most disgraced pseudo-mercenaries our cluster knew, and if this situation indeed turned out to be a result of Yaken's another betrayal, that would mean that Akagi hit a new level of low. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1055	Posted - 2017.02.20 21:57:37 - [93] - Quote Sandbags! Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3049	Posted - 2017.02.20 22:06:21 - [94] - Quote Ma'am, Yes, Ma'am! Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7123	Posted - 2017.02.20 22:24:38 - [95] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I'm a monster, Pieter. This isn't news and not an argument that wins you any points. So are you and particularly certain associates of yours. The reason I consider you dishonest is that you claim your targets and other such entities are just as bad as we are. This is demonstrably not true and smacks all too much of an attempt to justify yourself by dragging those better people down so they suddenly become 'valid' targets. If you think you've been honest with me, then you're being dishonest with yourself. Well, if it comes to that, I'm fairly sure I've seen those pilots you're talking about in the FDU. As far as I'm concerned, that makes them every bit as despicable as anyone I fly with. Tools of the oppressors and all that. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 385	Posted - 2017.02.20 22:49:18 - [96] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Probably was going around Yakening things up, as usual. If you are right, then it is explainable why they don't want to give details. They have said they were defending honor, but Yaken is the one who doesn't have it, he is the one of the most disgraced pseudo-mercenaries our cluster knew, and if this situation indeed turned out to be a result of Yaken's another betrayal, that would mean that Akagi hit a new level of low. It's all in the first post Mrs Kim. Former Pyre brother joined Akagi, his former CEO was Taisho Xun Yu of Sanxing, it is as specific as it can be.
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 366	Posted - 2017.02.20 23:17:50 - [97] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Well, if it comes to that, I'm fairly sure I've seen those pilots you're talking about in the FDU. As far as I'm concerned, that makes them every bit as despicable as anyone I fly with. Tools of the oppressors and all that. Excuse me, which pilots?
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 366	Posted - 2017.02.20 23:41:48 - [98] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: For the record, Sanxing had no intention of using violence against Akagi/I-RED. Our "unacceptable ultimatum": dismiss the disputed individual from the shelter of Akagi/I-RED within seven days. Our measured and civilized idea of consequences: public release of the details of what the individual did and no possibility of positive relations with I-RED in the future. (By now people can piece together from this thread what was done and by whom anyway.) Is no one going to mention this or is this too inconvenient to consider for all the warring done? (Kolodi, you may as well do this anyway.) I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 858	Posted - 2017.02.20 23:56:19 - [99] - Quote Why should we have waited to see what Sanxing considered to be "appropriate" consequences after a threat was made? If someone threatens unspecified revenge and you have the opportunity to remove the threat, why wouldn't you? She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 368	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:08:09 - [100] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Why should we have waited to see what Sanxing considered to be "appropriate" consequences after a threat was made? If someone threatens unspecified revenge and you have the opportunity to remove the threat, why wouldn't you? Now I'm wondering why the "we" you speak of would be worried about a humanitarian corporation. Oh no, watch out, a press release! Hard Knocks is doomed. I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 858	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:10:20 - [101] - Quote At no point have I even pretended that I am operating under Hard Knock's direction or interest. Don't be dumb. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 369	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:11:18 - [102] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Why should we have waited to see what Sanxing considered to be "appropriate" consequences after a threat was made? If someone threatens unspecified revenge and you have the opportunity to remove the threat, why wouldn't you? We did not threaten unspecified revenge. We told I-RED the consequences would be this, not more and not less: "public release of the details of what the individual did and no possibility of positive relations with I-RED in the future." If the third parties who declared war on us were not aware of what was actually said, maybe they should have checked.
Keramor Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 11	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:15:12 - [103] - Quote Yo, it's quite simple. A message was sent. We stick out for our mates, both current and former. **** with one of us and there we go. We looked at opportunities and this one basically presented itself on a silver platter - only a fool wouldn't have taken it. I'm sure there's some more politics attached to all of this but personally speaking? I don't care a bit about that. Having someone's back, that's what counts. If that's an alien concept open your eyes and look over New Eden, it's happening all over the bloody place.
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 858	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:16:32 - [104] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: Kalaratiri wrote: Why should we have waited to see what Sanxing considered to be "appropriate" consequences after a threat was made? If someone threatens unspecified revenge and you have the opportunity to remove the threat, why wouldn't you? We did not threaten unspecified revenge. We told I-RED the consequences would be this, not more and not less: "public release of the details of what the individual did and no possibility of positive relations with I-RED in the future." If the third parties who declared war on us were not aware of what was actually said, maybe they should have checked. If you would take another look at my post, you would see that the "unspecified" bit is actually under a theoretical example. We were well aware of the contents of the ultimatum. We considered our actions to be an appropriate response to it. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7126	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:32:25 - [105] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Well, if it comes to that, I'm fairly sure I've seen those pilots you're talking about in the FDU. As far as I'm concerned, that makes them every bit as despicable as anyone I fly with. Tools of the oppressors and all that. Excuse me, which pilots? You know what, you're right. I've just trawled my records and there's no sign of any FDU affiliation besides the very occaisional mention in league with GMVA. I retract that comment without reservation. I must have been thinking of Aedre. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7127	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:39:01 - [106] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: Kalaratiri wrote: Why should we have waited to see what Sanxing considered to be "appropriate" consequences after a threat was made? If someone threatens unspecified revenge and you have the opportunity to remove the threat, why wouldn't you? We did not threaten unspecified revenge. We told I-RED the consequences would be this, not more and not less: "public release of the details of what the individual did and no possibility of positive relations with I-RED in the future." If the third parties who declared war on us were not aware of what was actually said, maybe they should have checked. You might be failing to remember certain financial dimensions to Sanxing's relationship with I-Red that this ultimatum threatened. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Julianni Avala Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 146	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:43:54 - [107] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: If you would take another look at my post, you would see that the "unspecified" bit is actually under a theoretical example. We were well aware of the contents of the ultimatum. We considered our actions to be an appropriate response to it. I would be extremely interested in knowing where exactly you learned the details of the ultimatum that was, as far as I-RED was concerned, confidential and to be kept between the involved parties. I would also like to make it very clear to everyone that only myself and Executor Hinkelmann are the only ones speaking on behalf of I-RED.
Alex Hinkelmann Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 176	Posted - 2017.02.21 00:49:32 - [108] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: You might be failing to remember certain financial dimensions to Sanxing's relationship with I-Red that this ultimatum threatened. What is discussed in private should remain there pilot. I-RED Executor \|\| Operation Grey Steel© Overseer \|\| Syndicate Stability Initiative II©
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7127	Posted - 2017.02.21 01:04:01 - [109] - Quote Alex Hinkelmann wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: You might be failing to remember certain financial dimensions to Sanxing's relationship with I-Red that this ultimatum threatened. What is discussed in private should remain there pilot. Apologies. The circumstances leading up to his situation are fairly tangled and it is challenging to remember what is classified and what is public. I will withdraw from this discussion, since I have no wish to accidentally betray any mroe confidences, nor attempt to defend myself with half the truth. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1055	Posted - 2017.02.21 01:15:48 - [110] - Quote Keramor wrote: Yo, it's quite simple. A message was sent. We stick out for our mates, both current and former. **** with one of us and there we go. I respect you and yours a lot for this. Completely unrelated side note. How does a Caldari alliance get a cute Ni-Kunni spokeswoman and mine does not? I need to go recruiting. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3055	Posted - 2017.02.21 02:12:20 - [111] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: For the record, Sanxing had no intention of using violence against Akagi/I-RED. Our "unacceptable ultimatum": dismiss the disputed individual from the shelter of Akagi/I-RED within seven days. Our measured and civilized idea of consequences: public release of the details of what the individual did and no possibility of positive relations with I-RED in the future. (By now people can piece together from this thread what was done and by whom anyway.) I believe that means you owe us all official public release with explanation. I don't know how it goes in the Federation, but in the State if you gave a word (a promise, or a threat), you must follow it. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1056	Posted - 2017.02.21 02:35:07 - [112] - Quote When can I come and inspect your sandbags? Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Nameira Vanis-Tor Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 387	Posted - 2017.02.21 02:59:29 - [113] - Quote This discourse is growing even more pointless. Certain elements here a very vocal in Sanxings defence and are casting aspersions on the character of some of Sanxings adversaries. The following is my personal view: Reflecting on my own experience from a time outside of MITG/MCF1B I recall a situation I experienced in another Corporation. A theif had infiltrated the Corporation and cleared out most of the groups communal assets over 20 Billion ISK all told and had destroyed some of the Corporations infrastructure on the way out. The CEO and XO were devastated and reassured the members that things would be ok and that time would be needed to repair our fortunes. Morale initially was hit hard, if one of us could do this how many other members could be trusted? The members and officers however banded together despite leaderships protests that they should be the ones to shoulder responsibility and donated extra time, personal assets and ISK directly back into the Corporation that had looked after them so well in the past. Our allies expressed their sympathies and provided logistical aid where possible. All of this was whilst being enlisted in the TLF, having to prosecute a war and living in Low Security space. The Corporation pulled together under solid leadership, genuine loyalty from members, a positive attitude and ultimately became the most powerful TLF enlisted Corporation for a time. This situation in contrast, was a CONCORD sanctioned attack where Sanxings adversaries engaged them over the course of a week without duplicity. Sanxing had the mandatory grace period before hostilities commenced to make what preparations it could. One small Citadel (which may have been donated to Sanxing in the first place) and some other minor in space assets were destroyed totalling a fraction of the damage my old corporation suffered due to internal sabotage. If Sanxing could not recover from this up front engagement and its allies besides the Minmatar (who I beleive suffered more ISK losses than Sanxing) would not come to their military aid over the course of a week or financial/leadership aid subsequently then perhaps you should focus on what exactly the virtues of this Corporation are you are so vehemently defending here, where words are cheap and your physical actions in its defence are sorely lacking. Say what you want about MITG or others. We stand up for our members, our leaders and our associates in good standing. The level of support for Sanxing here on the IGS compared to the practical help they received or are receiving is appalling. Likewise the military action taken can not be portrayed as anything other than a minor inconvenience to a Corporation led well, with loyal members and the support of allies and friends. Especially as you know from our official statement that MITG are happy to regard hostilities as ceased. Consider the above carefully and ask are you a sort of friend like MITG or I-RED or Electus Matari? Or are you simply some moralising bystander willing to give every support to your friends short of actually helping. Once again this is my personal view and I do not presume to speak for any other entity.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 9193	Posted - 2017.02.21 05:33:11 - [114] - Quote As an uninformed and unengaged outsider, these are a great many words spent over what amounts to a modest sum of infrastructure. As to Sanxing 'not using violence,' I should contend that threats of any sort are a violence of a sort. Action was demanded, with threat made; various forces decided to engage in a more overt show of force. That this is worthy of so many words is, to be honest, quite strange. The best course of action from this point forward is for all to dust themselves off, to learn from this event, and to carry on with greater understanding of how others act in such a course of events as this. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 372	Posted - 2017.02.21 07:10:23 - [115] - Quote We wouldn't mind rebuilding, but there is no reason to. Our most important objectives were already accomplished months ago. We could continue slowly building up Lirsautton, but we will never have any stronger footing than we had during this conflict - that's not a complaint, just an observation of the facts that there isn't an unlimited number of possible capsuleer allies for a small Federation-loyal humanitarian organization and there are really few possible capsuleer recruits for such an organization. We could continue patrolling the Ysiette constellation, but we aren't egotistical enough to believe other local capsuleers won't keep a lid on Serpentis and rogue drone activity in the area. Basically, Sanxing's existence as an interstellar entity is redundant to requirements. And because of unrelated circumstances, Xun Yu has to focus on planetside matters, which leaves me with the theoretical leadership of Sanxing and this decision.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1059	Posted - 2017.02.21 07:14:37 - [116] - Quote Can someone explain to me what a humanitarian organization is? Just so we're on the same page. Edit: I know I can be flippant. However, I would like to actually know what you mean by humanitarian organization. What defines it specifically? Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1567	Posted - 2017.02.21 07:22:50 - [117] - Quote Personally I just want to chime in and say a corporation only becomes surplus to requirements when you let it be. The best corporations adapt and overcome when trouble hits. They switch focus, come up with new ideas or walk a new path. They don't just keel over and die. I think of when a corporation I helped found lost well in excess of 40b in assets from a patient thief. It was embarrassing and quite a hard blow. That corporation is still here. I also think of another corporation I was a part of that lost all of its space after considerable investment into reaction tower networks by the line members. That corporation is also still here. One doesn't gain respect or satisfaction by achieving one or two big things then trumpeting about it before bowing out at the right time. One gains them through the sweat of the brow bullying through hard times and, much like tempered steel beaten out and blasted in a furnace, coming out stronger. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Julianni Avala Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 154	Posted - 2017.02.21 07:28:37 - [118] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: Personally I just want to chime in and say a corporation only becomes surplus to requirements when you let it be. The best corporations adapt and overcome when trouble hits. They switch focus, come up with new ideas or walk a new path. They don't just keel over and die. I think of when a corporation I helped found lost well in excess of 40b in assets from a patient thief. It was embarrassing and quite a hard blow. That corporation is still here. I also think of another corporation I was a part of that lost all of its space after considerable investment into reaction tower networks by the line members. That corporation is also still here. One doesn't gain respect or satisfaction by achieving one or two big things then trumpeting about it before bowing out at the right time. One gains them through the sweat of the brow bullying through hard times and, much like tempered steel beaten out and blasted in a furnace, coming out stronger. Well said, Mister Onzo. I think you explained it better than many of us ever could. EDIT: To add, I-RED certainly doesn't want to see Sanxing stop it's hard work. Despite what has happened, we sincerely respect Sanxing for all it's worked towards and hope it continues rather than folds.
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 374	Posted - 2017.02.21 07:48:03 - [119] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: Can someone explain to me what a humanitarian organization is? Just so we're on the same page. Edit: I know I can be flippant. However, I would like to actually know what you mean by humanitarian organization. What defines it specifically? It varies. What it means when we describe Sanxing as a humanitarian organization: Sanxing was created specifically to administer humanitarian aid to the population of the Jin-Mei homeplanet. The aid came from numerous parties through the Villore Assembly - the job of Sanxing was to disburse it. When the relief effort contributed to the Jin-Mei civil war reaching a ceasefire, our new jobs were to help rebuild and to facilitate peace negotiations. The rebuilding hasn't really depended on interstellar support for a little while now, and our facilitations are well in place, so we turned our capsuleer activity to nurturing the prosperity and security of Lirsautton, Ysiette, and the wider Federation when possible. All the while, our internal policies were designed to prioritize baseliner lives and concerns. It was never for its own sake that Sanxing existed.
Jev North Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 649	Posted - 2017.02.21 07:58:55 - [120] - Quote On a personal note -- while I can respect dedication to ideals, it is my sincere hope that Sanxing pilots currently leaving the nest will do so galvanized instead of broken, with a renewed understanding of why it is important to fight for what you believe in, as opposed to merely suffering beautifully. The capsuleer class is only as useful to humanity as it is pugnacious. Bullets have a beauty and I don't know why.
Kolodi Ramal Sanxing 385	Posted - 2017.02.21 08:03:05 - [121] - Quote Not all fighting involves spaceships and munitions. Capsuleers tend to forget that.
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1570	Posted - 2017.02.21 12:35:38 - [122] - Quote Unfortunatly since I'm not running for the Council this year I can't fight others in the ballot box so there's that option out of the equation. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 747	Posted - 2017.02.21 13:48:15 - [123] - Quote Keramor wrote: Yo, it's quite simple. A message was sent. We stick out for our mates, both current and former. ** with one of us and there we go. Bringing sixty people to to kill the Astrahus of a twenty man humanitarian corperation. What a badass. You really showed everyone how not to ** with you. As strength goes.
Nameira Vanis-Tor Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 391	Posted - 2017.02.21 14:00:12 - [124] - Quote Ayallah wrote: Keramor wrote: Yo, it's quite simple. A message was sent. We stick out for our mates, both current and former. ** with one of us and there we go. Bringing sixty people to to kill the Astrahus of a twenty man humanitarian corperation. What a badass. You really showed everyone how not to ** with you. I remember PL living in Amammake dropping capital and black ops fleets on T1 militia cruisers. Pilots living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Merchant Rova Pathway to the Next 235	Posted - 2017.02.21 14:05:42 - [125] - Quote Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: Ayallah wrote: Keramor wrote: Yo, it's quite simple. A message was sent. We stick out for our mates, both current and former. ** with one of us and there we go. Bringing sixty people to to kill the Astrahus of a twenty man humanitarian corperation. What a badass. You really showed everyone how not to ** with you. I remember PL living in Amammake dropping capital and black ops fleets on T1 militia cruisers. Pilots living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. They didn't have a post bragging about it. Glory to Bob
Ashlar Vellum Esquire Armaments 386	Posted - 2017.02.21 14:09:32 - [126] - Quote Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: This discourse is growing even more pointless. Certain elements here a very vocal in Sanxings defence and are casting aspersions on the character of some of Sanxings adversaries. The following is my personal view: Reflecting on my own experience from a time outside of MITG/MCF1B I recall a situation I experienced in another Corporation. A theif had infiltrated the Corporation and cleared out most of the groups communal assets over 20 Billion ISK all told and had destroyed some of the Corporations infrastructure on the way out. The CEO and XO were devastated and reassured the members that things would be ok and that time would be needed to repair our fortunes. Morale initially was hit hard, if one of us could do this how many other members could be trusted? The members and officers however banded together despite leaderships protests that they should be the ones to shoulder responsibility and donated extra time, personal assets and ISK directly back into the Corporation that had looked after them so well in the past. Our allies expressed their sympathies and provided logistical aid where possible. All of this was whilst being enlisted in the TLF, having to prosecute a war and living in Low Security space. The Corporation pulled together under solid leadership, genuine loyalty from members, a positive attitude and ultimately became the most powerful TLF enlisted Corporation for a time. This situation in contrast, was a CONCORD sanctioned attack where Sanxings adversaries engaged them over the course of a week without duplicity. Sanxing had the mandatory grace period before hostilities commenced to make what preparations it could. One small Citadel (which may have been donated to Sanxing in the first place) and some other minor in space assets were destroyed totalling a fraction of the damage my old corporation suffered due to internal sabotage. If Sanxing could not recover from this up front engagement and its allies besides the Minmatar (who I beleive suffered more ISK losses than Sanxing) would not come to their military aid over the course of a week or financial/leadership aid subsequently then perhaps you should focus on what exactly the virtues of this Corporation are you are so vehemently defending here, where words are cheap and your physical actions in its defence are sorely lacking. Say what you want about MITG or others. We stand up for our members, our leaders and our associates in good standing. The level of support for Sanxing here on the IGS compared to the practical help they received or are receiving is appalling. Likewise the military action taken can not be portrayed as anything other than a minor inconvenience to a Corporation led well, with loyal members and the support of allies and friends. Especially as you know from our official statement that MITG are happy to regard hostilities as ceased. Consider the above carefully and ask are you a sort of friend like MITG or I-RED or Electus Matari? Or are you simply some moralising bystander willing to give every support to your friends short of actually helping. Once again this is my personal view and I do not presume to speak for any other entity. Moralising comes not 'cause of violent solution that was chosen, but 'cause of window dressing it as defence of honor and making a questionable decision to solve it while there were other possibilities still open. Also to a degree cast a bad light on a person whose honor was defended. Then again damsel's honor could be defended for less at times, so yeah.
Syenna Celeste Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 43	Posted - 2017.02.21 14:23:29 - [127] - Quote Merchant Rova wrote: Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: Ayallah wrote: Keramor wrote: Yo, it's quite simple. A message was sent. We stick out for our mates, both current and former. ** with one of us and there we go. Bringing sixty people to to kill the Astrahus of a twenty man humanitarian corperation. What a badass. You really showed everyone how not to ** with you. I remember PL living in Amammake dropping capital and black ops fleets on T1 militia cruisers. Pilots living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. They didn't have a post bragging about it. You've made a lot of noise in this thread, for a random neutral party with no discernible connection to any of the parties involved. What's your home J-sig? Asking for a friend, you understand. Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.
Merchant Rova Pathway to the Next 237	Posted - 2017.02.21 14:28:53 - [128] - Quote Syenna Celeste wrote: You've made a lot of noise in this thread, for a random neutral party with no discernible connection to any of the parties involved. What's your home J-sig? Asking for a friend, you understand. First off, I've done a tiny bit of work with Sanxing before and I would consider Xun an acquaintance. Second off, if you were actual wormholers, you'd be able to find that J-tag without having to ask. Glory to Bob
Syenna Celeste Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 43	Posted - 2017.02.21 14:34:14 - [129] - Quote Merchant Rova wrote: Second off, if you were actual wormholers, you'd be able to find that J-tag without having to ask. We already know it - The question was a courtesy. Looking forward to seeing you in space. I'll have someone start up the freezers in anticipation - I'll want whichever of your clones we catch you in for posterity. Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 748	Posted - 2017.02.21 16:18:37 - [130] - Quote Evicting that guy out of his wormhole because he said something you did not like to hear within a page of "we do this to take care of our own." Having found their sixty kilos Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group proceeds to take pleasure in throwing its weight around. Maybe next you will target highsec miners or one of those ten man FW lowsec corperations. As strength goes.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1065	Posted - 2017.02.21 16:47:43 - [131] - Quote Kolodi Ramal wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: Can someone explain to me what a humanitarian organization is? Just so we're on the same page. Edit: I know I can be flippant. However, I would like to actually know what you mean by humanitarian organization. What defines it specifically? It varies. What it means when we describe Sanxing as a humanitarian organization: Sanxing was created specifically to administer humanitarian aid to the population of the Jin-Mei homeplanet. The aid came from numerous parties through the Villore Assembly - the job of Sanxing was to disburse it. When the relief effort contributed to the Jin-Mei civil war reaching a ceasefire, our new jobs were to help rebuild and to facilitate peace negotiations. The rebuilding hasn't really depended on interstellar support for a little while now, and our facilitations are well in place, so we turned our capsuleer activity to nurturing the prosperity and security of Lirsautton, Ysiette, and the wider Federation when possible. All the while, our internal policies were designed to prioritize baseliner lives and concerns. It was never for its own sake that Sanxing existed. Thank you for your answer. I will probably move this to it's own thread. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 863	Posted - 2017.02.21 16:52:40 - [132] - Quote Ah yes. The threat of simple combat is now directly equivalent to evicting someone from their wormhole. Glad we're keeping this free of hyperbole. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 754	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:00:37 - [133] - Quote So she asked what his home J-sig was, then backpedaled and said she already knew but wanted him to know they were coming for him and ended with 'see you in space' And interpreting that as the threat of eviction is hyperbole? Maybe I just imagine when people make threats they mean them. As strength goes.
Kalaratiri Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 863	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:05:45 - [134] - Quote Due to the mechanics of living in different classes, the only way Miss Syenna is ever likely to get to engage in combat with him or his corp is by engaging in their home. This isn't difficult to comprehend. Spirits, I'd be surprised if he came to hers. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 755	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:15:15 - [135] - Quote If she wanted to find him she would have run a locator agent. The threat was clear in its intent. As strength goes.
Merchant Rova Pathway to the Next 244	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:20:26 - [136] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: Due to the mechanics of living in different classes, the only way Miss Syenna is ever likely to get to engage in combat with him or his corp is by engaging in their home. This isn't difficult to comprehend. Spirits, I'd be surprised if he came to hers. With our statics, a connection is more than possible. ((I want to point out one thing OOC: P-NXT is not in any way a RP corp and I am the only RPer. If you attempt an eviction, which I'm not going to loudly complain about, evictions are a part of wormhole space, ect ect. come at us OOC, not IC.)) Ayallah wrote: If she wanted to find him she would have run a locator agent. The threat was clear in its intent. Locator agents only work in K-Space. Killboards give out more information on a home hole too. Glory to Bob
Syenna Celeste Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 46	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:56:11 - [137] - Quote Ayallah wrote: Maybe I just imagine when people make threats they mean them. You're the only person using the word eviction here. Does PL call it an Invasion every time they want a fight with another group? Put your hands around my heart and squeeze me until I'm dry.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7135	Posted - 2017.02.21 17:56:21 - [138] - Quote Ayallah wrote: Maybe I just imagine when people make threats they mean them. Careful with that. I did exactly that and now, apparently, I am a very mean man who doesn't care about baseliners. (You know, except for all the humanitarian work the Tuulinen Foundation does and has done.) For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Keramor Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 13	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:04:50 - [139] - Quote Ayallah wrote: Bringing sixty people to to kill the Astrahus of a twenty man humanitarian corperation. What a badass. You really showed everyone how not to **** with you. And who lit your fuse? Pissed that we're not talking about your highness enough? Well, tough luck. That aside you're discounting the assorted up to 200+ in GMVA and E'M that were a wee bit involved. It's fine, easy to miss and makes less catchy lines.
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 755	Posted - 2017.02.21 18:26:18 - [140] - Quote Keramor wrote: And who lit your fuse? Syenna Celeste wrote: You're the only person using the word eviction here. Does PL call it an Invasion every time they want a fight with another group? I am only here for the good fights. As strength goes.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1272	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:02:06 - [141] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Careful with that. I did exactly that and now, apparently, I am a very mean man who doesn't care about baseliners. (You know, except for all the humanitarian work the Tuulinen Foundation does and has done.) Aww, did the widdle hisec beaws scare you? If a child or cripple comes waving their fist at me, would you think me justified if I started pounding on them? Maybe it'd be okay because I do humanitarian work? I mean, the two surely cancel each other out, somehow? You're not going to be able to make your actions justified no matter how hard you pretend this was proportionate response.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7141	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:04:37 - [142] - Quote So, which do you think Sanxing were, Miz? Kids or cripples? Do go on. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1272	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:09:42 - [143] - Quote Probably the kid then, cripple now. We'll see if they'll let this be a learning experience or a death knell.
Pieter Tuulinen Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 7141	Posted - 2017.02.21 19:12:12 - [144] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Probably the kid then, cripple now. We'll see if they'll let this be a learning experience or a death knell. Both then. Interesting. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 372	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:14:45 - [145] - Quote Syenna Celeste wrote: Ayallah wrote: Maybe I just imagine when people make threats they mean them. You're the only person using the word eviction here. Does PL call it an Invasion every time they want a fight with another group? Is this coming from the group that deployed a four (or was it five?) corporation war against a single target for the concept of a perceived threat under the rationale of "take no chances"? Or just you? I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 1985	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:16:35 - [146] - Quote Julianni Avala wrote: I would be extremely interested in knowing where exactly you learned the details of the ultimatum that was, as far as I-RED was concerned, confidential and to be kept between the involved parties. Oh dear, it looks like someone has sprung a leak. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Nameira Vanis-Tor Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 391	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:25:23 - [147] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Careful with that. I did exactly that and now, apparently, I am a very mean man who doesn't care about baseliners. (You know, except for all the humanitarian work the Tuulinen Foundation does and has done.) Aww, did the widdle hisec beaws scare you? If a child or cripple comes waving their fist at me, would you think me justified if I started pounding on them? Maybe it'd be okay because I do humanitarian work? I mean, the two surely cancel each other out, somehow? You're not going to be able to make your actions justified no matter how hard you pretend this was proportionate response. Miz, we both know considering our shared employment past that Mercenary work needs no justification and can be a lonely existence, where your word is a precious asset and your comrades are everything. Proportionality is not ever a factor. As MC say 'It's about the person next to you'. Or as Ushra'Khan say 'We come for our people'. (My bid for an MITG one is 'If you play with PYRE you get burned!') Whether it is a high sec humanitarian organisation that took a vow of non-violence or hardened pirates, you do as you are hired to or if you mess with one of our few friends, if we can hurt you for it we will. We need no further justification. Neither do you in your current profession. This set of circumstances is exactly the same as the wreckage MC leaves in its wake after each contract, to your client it's a job well done, to your pilots it's the satisfaction of a successful operation, to observers it is a calling card and an advert, to the target and their friends it's deeply unfair and you are monsters for crushing them for something as crass as ISK or honour. That is all the justification we need.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 375	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:38:11 - [148] - Quote Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: We need no further justification. ... That is all the justification we need. So it was done for honor of someone else, but not really, because you felt threatened, but also not really, again, because it really wasn't that bad and Sanxing should just look up and keep going, but not really, because you actually did it because you wanted to and don't need a reason? EDIT -- Where's my thinking emoji? I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
morion Lighting Build 185	Posted - 2017.02.21 20:40:29 - [149] - Quote i would like to use some melodramatic words and end with a ?
Keramor Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 15	Posted - 2017.02.21 22:43:13 - [150] - Quote Ayallah wrote: I am only here for the good fights. Great. I was there for a friend. Could have been a good fight, ended up as a no-show. That's how it goes. That aside, fly deadly and so on.
Nameira Vanis-Tor Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 394	Posted - 2017.02.22 07:26:57 - [151] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote: We need no further justification. ... That is all the justification we need. So it was done for honor of someone else, but not really, because you felt threatened, but also not really, again, because it really wasn't that bad and Sanxing should just look up and keep going, but not really, because you actually did it because you wanted to and don't need a reason? EDIT -- Where's my thinking emoji? Things seem adequately explained to me, your grief will pass and you will feel better soon.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1863	Posted - 2017.02.22 08:29:00 - [152] - Quote And this is why all of you need to be Reclaimed. Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade Lord Consort of House Sarum
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 3055	Posted - 2017.02.22 09:05:56 - [153] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: When can I come and inspect your sandbags? The sandbags have been filled and stacked in a pyramid in Asakai in a certain place I've found the most... suitable for them. You can inspect them at any point you'd like. I'd recommend to hurry though as the owner might not like their presence. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Keramor Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group 16	Posted - 2017.02.22 09:14:54 - [154] - Quote Aldrith Shutaq wrote: And this is why all of you need to be Reclaimed. I'm inviting you to try.
Alizabeth Vea Seraph's Wings Vengeful Seraph 1071	Posted - 2017.02.24 21:55:58 - [155] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: When can I come and inspect your sandbags? The sandbags have been filled and stacked in a pyramid in Asakai in a certain place I've found the most... suitable for them. You can inspect them at any point you'd like. I'd recommend to hurry though as the owner might not like their presence. Mail me the location. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.

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