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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2664
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:17:04 -
[1] - Quote
Whole lotta folks not twigging to the fact that sieging the rorqual gives you ECM immunity ITT.
I won't comment directly on the nerf, but I do offer this: If the goal here is to help buttress mineral prices, consider taking a look at the mineral basket. (Ask Aryth if you don't understand what this means. Few do.) Decreasing the amount of pyerite and isogen in nullsec anomalies, while increasing mexallon (and to a lesser degree, nocx and mega) will do a lot to help correct the downward trend in minerals.
If you'd like an idea on how mineral prices react in a high-usage market, check the keepstar in 1DQ1-A.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2665
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:19:54 -
[2] - Quote
Well, I lied, I guess I will comment on the nerf: was there a technical challenge involved with giving PANIC the same malus to electronic warfare capacitor usage that Networked Sensor Arrays have, or was it a deliberate decision to not go that route?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2666
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:40:43 -
[3] - Quote
Shalmon Aliatus wrote:The only way to fix that would be to take away all the unnerfed ore mined by Rorquals since the patch. Please tell me if you plan to do this, because in that case I need to rent a bigger car to buy all the popcorn I need for the reddit thread 
I mean, they could certainly do this, but most of us have turned the ore into other stuff. Eve doesn't have the accounting in place to track the ore further than that, if they even have the accounting to do just the ore.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2666
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:48:43 -
[4] - Quote
Wibla wrote:Caleb Ayrania wrote:"We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy." ..
WOW Such timing.. because its not already lost 50% of its value.. and I doubt it will be enough "fixing" to save the patient..
but +1 for well some sort of "effort"..
Pro tip.. Get some RAW material sinks in there asap.. the eco system is becoming stupid.. and the busy bees in Delve will just make this a LOT worse..
It's not like Delve is the only region with heavy Rorqual usage, and the MER never showed drone mining amounts because CCP are bad at data gathering and presentation. Pro tip: look at the mineral output of ore anoms and you will know why some minerals are dropping hard while others are not.
There's also the fact that Delve is a net importer. Very much so. We aren't causing minerals to crash, we're helping prop them up.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2666
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Posted - 2017.02.23 19:00:04 -
[5] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Amazing fix for PANIC.
Amazing incentive for killing the drones - this makes using rorquals a bit riskier even if the ship itself is not directly threatened.
I mean I guess if CCP released some numbers on how much was being mined with them, we'd be able to partake more of this part of the discussion, but I'm going to guess those numbers are under some sort of hilarious information embargo care of the CSM. The real big picture question is, in response to some numbers you are tightening the mineral faucet, but as time progresses more and more people will probably still be working towards Rorqs as they accrue more SP, so while individual rorquals are producing less, soon there will be more rorquals overall. Basically, are you going to keep tightening the mineral faucet with yield reductions as time goes on? Is there some sort of platonic, fixed mineral prices you are shooting for? Null industry and null space is now actually worth it for something other than moons; are you trying to keep mineral prices high enough for other places to be viable for mining?
You didn't have the numbers, regardless. The MER stats have never included drone mining.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2668
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Posted - 2017.02.23 20:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Panther X wrote:
You want me to stop mining? Increase the Security Class of some of our systems. Kill the broken True Sec of Delve, and move it to Vale :)
Broken truesec doesn't affect ore anomalies. We only get 10% yield anoms in -0.85 or better, same as you.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2668
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Posted - 2017.02.23 20:18:33 -
[7] - Quote
The spreading out of ore anomalies seems sort of unusual and arbitrary, to me. Where I'm from, folks siege right on top of a rock. When the rock is exhausted, they warp to a perch, then to another rock. Does CCP have metrics stating that a significant number of folks have mining patterns contrary to this?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2668
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Posted - 2017.02.23 20:40:04 -
[8] - Quote
Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:Fun fact...
With this change regular T2 mining drones will mine at about 1/3rd the m3/minute as the escavators while remaining at about 1500 times less expensive.
Way to nerf rorquals and escavator drones into the dirt...
i mean, rorquals are mining ships so dirt should be something they're well acquainted with
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2670
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Posted - 2017.02.23 21:14:36 -
[9] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Attackers bring EWAR to the belt? No PANIC.
Wrong. The Industrial Core provides full EWAR immunity.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2670
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Posted - 2017.02.23 21:22:46 -
[10] - Quote
Anya Aivora wrote:
What you have now done has made it so panic is completely useless. They can't use panic when ecm'd.
Wrong. Industrial cores provide full ECM immunity when running.
(Times I have repeated this: 3)
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2672
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Posted - 2017.02.23 21:37:46 -
[11] - Quote
Grymwulf wrote:Querns wrote:Anya Aivora wrote:
What you have now done has made it so panic is completely useless. They can't use panic when ecm'd.
Wrong. Industrial cores provide full ECM immunity when running. (Times I have repeated this: 3) I've seen this stated, but don't notice anything in the attributes of the Industrial Core that indicate that this ability is granted. I see -80% resistance bonuses to Sensor Dampener, Remote Assistance Impedance, but nothing regarding ECM.
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/info/?typeid=42890
Hit the attributes tab, scroll all the way to the bottom. ECMResistance 0%. (This value is inverted; 0% means "immune.")
Edit: Saw your post above after I hit submit; more verification is always good!
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2672
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Posted - 2017.02.23 21:38:50 -
[12] - Quote
Vagizzle Schrimshank wrote:Querns wrote:Anya Aivora wrote:
What you have now done has made it so panic is completely useless. They can't use panic when ecm'd.
Wrong. Industrial cores provide full ECM immunity when running. (Times I have repeated this: 3) Wrong Anya statement is entirely correct. If a rorqual is ECM'd it will not be able to PANIC. No where in their statement did they mention the core was on. You are assuming the core is always on.
If the rorqual is in the belt, it's probably sieged.
The purpose of PANIC is to allow you time to exit siege, so you can catch remote reps from escalating Force Auxiliaries.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2673
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Posted - 2017.02.23 21:54:07 -
[13] - Quote
Grymwulf wrote:Querns wrote:[quote=Grymwulf][quote=Querns] https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/info/?typeid=42890
Hit the attributes tab, scroll all the way to the bottom. ECMResistance 0%. (This value is inverted; 0% means "immune.") Edit: Saw your post above after I hit submit; more verification is always good! But this just demonstrates the ease of solving it by adding 1 database entry for this item - https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/info/?typeid=41411
"EW Capacitor Need Bonus9999900 %" So, the choice is allocation of developer time and resources. Write 1 line of SQL code to add an attribute to an itemID *OR* spend many developer man-hours custom programming a solution, additional QA man-hours testing the solution, and additional complexity to an already complex code base. I wonder which is easier?
Doesn't solve the problem.
I even posted about this earlier in the thread, but a fellow on GSF Jabber turned me around to the problem. (Thanks, The Slayer!)
Making the rorqual PANIC mode turn off ewar doesn't actually solve the Jump Hictor Problem, or any of the combat rorqual problems. The moderate hack presented here, while unwieldy, provides the best compromise between the reality of the game and the design intention for you to only be able to PANIC while mining or supporting other miners.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2673
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Posted - 2017.02.23 22:00:47 -
[14] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Querns wrote:Whole lotta folks not twigging to the fact that sieging the rorqual gives you ECM immunity ITT.
I won't comment directly on the nerf, but I do offer this: If the goal here is to help buttress mineral prices, consider taking a look at the mineral basket. (Ask Aryth if you don't understand what this means. Few do.) Decreasing the amount of pyerite and isogen in nullsec anomalies, while increasing mexallon (and to a lesser degree, nocx and mega) will do a lot to help correct the downward trend in minerals.
If you'd like an idea on how mineral prices react in a high-usage market, check the keepstar in 1DQ1-A. What a load of bollocks. The Mexallon has been intended as a feature of the game several times by the devs. If you want more go wormhole diving. The mineral prices drop because null-sec has reduced dependence on exporting from high-sec. Less demand, same supply, lower price - economics 101. If you are so set on independence then we bring the 90% jump protection to the table of negotiation. There has been plenty of carrots given to null industry, it's now time for sticks. Perhaps high-sec can have direct access to small amounts Zyd and Mega - why not, you're holding out a hand.
Wormhole ore sites have bupkis for minerals. The fact that you even suggested that as a supplement to our mexallon intake shows you have no clue what you're talking about.
The problem isn't having ENOUGH minerals, it's the ratio. We can get all the minerals we need, even mexallon, with enough mining. The issue is that we end up oversupplied on pyerite and isogen. (Exporting pyerite is hideously cost inefficient, but isogen isn't, which is why it's nearly half the price of mexallon despite being in a higher "rarity tier.") Adjusting the ratio isn't about getting us more mexallon, it's about making our growing stores of pyerite and isogen actually worth something.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2673
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Posted - 2017.02.23 22:01:42 -
[15] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Querns wrote:
If the rorqual is in the belt, it's probably sieged.
The purpose of PANIC is to allow you time to exit siege, so you can catch remote reps from escalating Force Auxiliaries.
Unless it is moving between rocks due to the super slow drone flight speed. If this change to Panic was coming with a massive buff to Excavator speed to enable them to mine asteroids further away, it would be a lot more reasonable, but there are a lot of times where they will not be in siege for whatever reason at which point ECM will stop them using Panic. Simply put, it's a bad mechanic and should be addressed in some other way.
If you're moving between rocks, and you get dropped, siege immediately and wait up to 20 seconds?
Are you saying you can't survive for 20 seconds? If you're worried, fit a Capital Emergency Hull Energizer in addition to your PANIC, which will GUARANTEE that you live long enough to survive.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2685
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Posted - 2017.02.25 14:31:15 -
[16] - Quote
It'd be interesting to see the actual data used to determine the health of the "mineral economy."
We already know that CCP has no metrics for drone mining. If they did, it'd show up in the Monthly Economic Reports. Speaking as someone with intimate knowledge of the mining output of my alliance's region, I can guarantee you that it is still broken. CCP Quant has said as much in months past.
So what is left to measure? It could be any number of potential things, but what I suspect it is (and please, prove me wrong here,) is that the Jita price of minerals (and potentially other major market hubs) was the deciding factor.
To be brief, looking at Jita is not particularly representative of the state of mining as a whole. I can certainly go into more detail, but it'd be pointless to do so without confirmation that my hypothesis is true.
For what it's worth, I had been expecting another rorqual nerf, and am expecting more to come. However, the nerfs should be for the right reasons, and not spurious ones.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2686
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:05:05 -
[17] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:So I've done my fair share of blops against hardened and well defended sov space. The most important thing is speed - can my damage outpace the response fleet? Although one of the intentions of AegisSov was largely to punish bloat, it has had the opposite effect - empires can attain massive scale without gaining any of the friction that should accompany it because you can stuff so many players into so little space comfortably. Horde has nearly 13,000 pilots, and only needs one pocket of Fade (5 systems) to feed that many players. This density problem, combined with cynos, combined with PANIC, combined with the local tank means any reasonable sov empire, barring gross and hilarious incompetence, will be able to respond in time - the window is simply massive.
Aegis sovereignty actually did nothing to change how densely you can pack space. The ore anomaly spawn mechanics that are in place today have been in place for longer than I've been playing this game, and today's ore anomaly asteroid composition has been in place for nearly two years.
What changed was the removal of AFK carrier ratting in the Citadel expansion. Suddenly, the most scalable method of making money in nullsec was gone. Mining was the next thing in line after AFK carrier ratting was removed, due to its largely hands-off gameplay mechanics. We were already mining a lot in barges and exhumers, and then Rorquals were released, significantly over-tuned at release. It's only natural we and others would go whole hog on them.
The existence of skill injectors exacerbated this problem, as well. Without them, you'd have seen a much more gradual ramp up to today's Superfund-style mining operations, as multiboxers et. al. slowly trained pilots up the long way or competed for a tiny slice of available Character Bazaar offerings.
Mistakes were made, but let's be sure to attribute them to the right sources. Aegis sovereignty, for all its faults, wasn't responsible here.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2686
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:13:05 -
[18] - Quote
Karmastat wrote:
However my real point - that only one person has commented on - is to remind CCP of the fact - that their servers know if u are near a celestial or not - so when the Panic Button is pressed that a simple data call to a routine that determines the type of celestial you are near (same one used for Killmails) and allowing PANIC mode only if in a belt seemed a much easier solution.
Fozzie said, earlier, that proximity checks are considerably more expensive than locked target checks. Don't expect them to relent on that.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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