I think they are plain and simple bad gamers and they are really bad at EVE, maybe have some serious problem understanding the rules of the game mechanics or in some severe cases the whole concept. But there are people who just wont accept that the problem is with them and not with the game. So they invent some bs story about why it is the game or the other players or the toxic community that is to blame for their own underperformance.

To better see what I mean, take any FPS or RTS you like and get really good at it. Even with close friends you will soon see the ones who start to make excuses for their underperformance about how the game is ****, how the people who play it are toxic, how you are actually cheating and not playing fair.

Lets just say I caused a strain in our relationship lol. But I seriously cannot stand it when someone won't take responsibility for their actions, it's just a thing with me.

The funniest part of this thread is reading about the gankers criticizing it when gankers are the first to join NPC corps with their bumping and scouting alts so they can't get wardec'ed and taken out. The only time you'll ever see them in a corporation or alliance in High-Sec is when they are playing on their suicide alts, because they aren't even be going to be staying on grid long enough for it to matter.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Dont pretend to be naive.
There is no profit in ganking gankers.

Drac won't be part of this.

There is, but that's not what I was referring to.

I was referring to the criticism of gankers for using NPC corps as an anti-wardec device, when other groups do it for the exact same reason.

The funniest part of this thread is reading about the gankers criticizing it when gankers are the first to join NPC corps with their bumping and scouting alts so they can't get wardec'ed and taken out. The only time you'll ever see them in a corporation or alliance in High-Sec is when they are playing on their suicide alts, because they aren't even be going to be staying on grid long enough for it to matter.

There is very little/zero profit in ganking gank ships.

Surely you have to admit this?

But whining because we get extremely safe options to screw you over because you whined really hard to get really safe options is a bit silly if you ask me.

I encourage everyone here to read this very intently, and understand what it reveals.

"we get extremely safe options to screw you over"

I know, recognised and understood your NPC corp point.

However, that also feeds into my point above.
Gankers too can enjoy NPC corp un-wardeccability.
And since they earn their proceeds through loot off destroyed targets, the tax rate in corps is irrelevant.

But what profit is there in ganking gankers?

At most, you invest the same as they invested, and receive some small pittance of their cheap modules in return.

Gank ships are inherently cheap targets, unlike the targets gankers prey upon.

There is very little/zero profit in ganking gank ships.

Surely you have to admit this?

You are a perpetual whiner.
Look at your own post history.
If anything is said against your interests, you whine against it.

Whine, whine, whine against this and that is all you do.

IMHO ganking gankers is a potentially profitable venture.

If you call that whining, ok, I'm fine with that.

I encourage everyone here to read this very intently, and understand what it reveals.

"we get extremely safe options to screw you over"

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that we did not ask for this? It's actually the people who then complain that they can't simply kill the bumper who complained in the first place until CONCORD got so strong that it is impossible to gank them in an easy way.

Your argument makes no sense.
You have it ass-backwards.

So far youve only whined in one liners.

This is the longest and most honest post Ive ever seen from you.
Prove your point, here, now.

What would you want changed in EVE towards your vision of how it should be?

PS: "Nothing" is not a valid or honest answer. All of us want change, one way or another, particularly towards our own bias.

I'm ok with every change which actually brings content, more stuff to build, more stuff to shoot. Also all changes which bring conflict drivers and allow for more conflict in general.

I'm against all changes which isolate players from each other and dis-incentivize conflict.

Pretty obvious.

The bumped target CANT simply kill the bumper, due to CONCORD.

Your argument makes no sense.
You have it ass-backwards.

Bumping does not kill the ship,it causes no damage.
Its a separate mechanic to actually attacking and destroying the ship.

Bumping has zero effect on CONCORD response to subsequent aggressive action.

Your point makes no sense.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that we did not ask for this? It's actually the people who then complain that they can't simply kill the bumper who complained in the first place until CONCORD got so strong that it is impossible to gank them in an easy way.

I said this before and I say it here again.

This is never about ganker versus miner or PvPer vs PvEer or whatever artificial conflict groups you try to create here.

This is ALWAYS about people who care about game mechanics and play this as a competitive game and people who don't and rather complain to CCP because they feel entitled to win without making an effort to adapt to the game at all.

This is not something you can win or change with any game mechanic changes. Because as you can see with the CONCORD mechanics, we will get those changes too and we will understand them better that those whiners and use them for stuff they did not intend.

So you would be ok with changes which increase opportunity to aggress gankers in HS?

We are almost all operating at -10, so you can shoot us on sight not sure how much more opportunity than always is required for you.

Let's not exaggerate too much, eh? A lot of them are not operating with a security status that low, at least the ones he's talking about if he's mining. We usually do have to wait for them to start flashing yellow before we can just summarily execute them.

If they were all at -10 like you say, Concorde would never intervene, and you would have gained no advantage from the protective changes. Probably a lot of them run missions just enough to raise their status back up just enough.

I just pulled the last 2500 ganks by CODE.

Total ganks analysed:2543
Total CODE. members involved:112

% of CODE. members as outlaw when ganking:78.6%(88 of 112)
% of CODE. members not outlaw when ganking:21.4%

% of outlaw ganks:93.7%(2382 of 2543)
% of not outlaw ganks:6.3%(161 of 2543)

The CODE. attackers on gank killmails are outlaw 93.7% of the time.

You can repeat the analysis yourself if you like. Here's the data (A total of about 4000 killmails as not all CODE. kills are ganks)::
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1nitFwBo5aARjRfZTlmd3dETUk

This result is consistent across months of checking data. >90% of CODE. attackers that appear on killmails are outlaw.

CODE. of course aren't the only gankers in existence, just the most active.

____________________________________________

And here are the names:

NameSec Status# Ganks
Zane Arnolles -1032
Aaaarrgg -10138
Skiff Poddington -1046
Kiara Successfuel -1013
Kirigi -1028
Milkmypigeon -1015
Kibbera -1076
Count Ragnar Danneskjold -1025
Koiji -1028
Agent Hex -102
Captain Cortar -1024
Ralliana -102
Jeremiah Kusion -1047
Yabba Dabba Do -1010
ST0NER SMURFETTE -101
Brutal Anna -108
Keraina Talie-Kuo -1077
Perlo Tissant -108
Mack Poddington -1044
Knackered Old Goat -102
Guybertini -1058
Jackson Kusion -1046
ST0NER SMURF -101
Ima Wreckyou -104
Ngoq TlhamChu' ChutEnforce -107
PostOp Transexual -1013
Kanji Kan -1028
Luna Nightblood -101
Alt 00 -1029
Photon Death -1057
Plasma Death -1061
Mildron Klinker -1090
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri -1026
Andrea Ellecon -103
Mark Eting -108
Pod-Goo Repoman -109
Lament von Gankenheim -102
Jack Van Impe -103
Joseph Kusion -1047
Lillie Naari -1028
Tender Sometimes -108
NotTheSmartestCookie -1042
Hulk Poddington -1045
Molly Klinker -1082
GR13Fy -1017
Alexander Kirenski -1010
Fiddly Pop -1043
Jason Kusion -1054
V-ktor Dolus -102
Joel Kusion -1050
Joshua Kusion -1049
Hide Yo Hulks -105
Spine Ripper -1011
Justin Kusion -1050
Charlie Nelson Reilly -103
Krominal -1043
Vilinensis Octoria -102
Liek DarZ -1064
Jake Kusion -1050
Lawrence Lawton -1051
Brigantine M2 -105
Pod-Goo RepoWoman -1062
Johnathan Kusion -1046
Jana Grebb -1020
DEVILISH ST0NER SMURF -101
Eleni Helios -1015
Tisiphone Dira -1057
Alt Proxy -1021
Jayden Kusion -1050
Rick Therapist -1013
Gavril Ilizarov -105
Lichelle Marie -9.934
Agrona Martin -9.85
Baby Lemba -9.813
Lemba -9.710
Kill-Chan -9.613
Cautiously Pessimistic -9.537
I Can't Even -9.43
Booka Shade -8.93
Ron Chi -8.92
Marshall Mathars -6.91
Zombiepilot -6.93
achterlijke -6.79
Zopiclone -6.642
007 JBond -6.653
Duratan Muhahaha -66
Savin Aulmais -5.51
Nitetime Video -524
Sasha Nemtsov -4.92
William Morgane -4.52
Dude Magic -4.512
Marina Gankalot -4.16
Calrizzan -3.715
Lisa Tancos -3.77
Pod-Goo Repairman -3.26
Starshade -31
Tax Collector Discotime -2.98
Edward T'each -2.81
Snigie Audanie -2.723
Pod Destroyer Molly -2.36
Aaaarrggs Scout Alt -1.91
Super Perforator -1.917
Tax Collector Emile -1.81
Semtex Attor -1.76
Halifax Novacane -1.56
Tax Collector Richard -0.513
Jason Seitz -0.23
Ruby Daniella -0.22
Taxman Daniel -0.19
FightMeNow 03
Carebears' Nightmare 0.39
Dom Arkaral 4.92

I'll just leave this here; in a later post he does the same for the hisec shenanigans of Goons.

Let's not exaggerate too much, eh? A lot of them are not operating with a security status that low, at least the ones he's talking about if he's mining. We usually do have to wait for them to start flashing yellow before we can just summarily execute them.

If they were all at -10 like you say, Concorde would never intervene, and you would have gained no advantage from the protective changes. Probably a lot of them run missions just enough to raise their status back up just enough.

He talked about increasing opportunities to aggress gankers not looters, bumpers or scouts. Those toons usually have positive sec status and profit from the same CONCORD "protection" the freighter or miner did.

We are almost all operating at -10, so you can shoot us on sight not sure how much more opportunity than always is required for you.