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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
483
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Posted - 2017.03.02 21:21:28 -
[1] - Quote
I've been looking into starting a blue community within hi sec for the sole purpose of getting people together and enjoying the game and making friends. It is difficult for new, solo players and smaller corps to operate within hi sec due to the way in which the war dec mechanic is used so I wanted to create something that will give people a break from war decs.
Some general guidelines, ideas and features I've thought of are as follows;
- must be in an NPC corp to be part of the community
- TS3/Voice comms will be provided
- Key people organising missions or low sec pvp ops, people giving advice on how to play Eve
- Chat Channels/ Mailing list for communication
Generally I'd like to keep this cool and stress free without the usual problems that arise from being in a corp or alliance. I'm interested in working with like minded people who are interested in helping to bring back the fun in hi sec. It should be lots of fun.
Please feel free to discuss ideas here and maybe in a few weeks we can get something going.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2039
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Posted - 2017.03.02 22:09:58 -
[2] - Quote
Trying to make a community out of people who refuse to participate in any community. Good luck, but this has been tried before :) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
4011
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Posted - 2017.03.02 22:16:41 -
[3] - Quote
There are many of these already. They are organized by chat channels. But they are hard to find due to the lack of in-game methods of finding or advertising chat channels. The result is many, many players have started such communities. There are dozens of them, and each is so small that they are not much of a community. Players thus don't pay attention to them, and remove the channel from their list to reduce clutter.
CCP: We need a way for players with common interests to find each other in game. A way for chat channels to be advertised so like-minded players can find each other.
OP: Consider including people who are in corps, but their corp does not have a history of making war decs, or ganking. That way, when said corps do get a dec, the players can drop corp and still be part of a community.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
484
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Posted - 2017.03.02 23:20:55 -
[4] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:There are many of these already. They are organized by chat channels. But they are hard to find due to the lack of in-game methods of finding or advertising chat channels. The result is many, many players have started such communities. There are dozens of them, and each is so small that they are not much of a community. Players thus don't pay attention to them, and remove the channel from their list to reduce clutter. The channel sprouts up, tried to grow, then dies due to lack of players.
CCP: We need a way for players with common interests to find each other in game. A way for chat channels to be advertised so like-minded players can find each other. Something like the corp finder.
OP: Consider including people who are in corps, but their corp does not have a history of making war decs, or ganking. That way, when said corps do get a dec, the players can drop corp and still be part of a community.
Hmmm...
Perhaps these other NPC groups didn't grow due to their lack of marketing in their venture.
Ok, perhaps CCP could change/ add a couple of things to fleets. Maybe if they created some extra fleet features, a limited fleet hanger, a way to divide loot. They have touched on it a little bit as we have the ability to divide mission standings gain among our fleet. I'm fine with the current fleet mechanics, what i put forward was just a thought.
Generally I'm trying to create something very simple and straight forward. perhaps something a new player can get into and be around cool and knowledgeable people. I have no problem with the current war dec mechanic, I just think that some people need to completely avoid it and still benefit from being in somewhat of a community.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
484
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Posted - 2017.03.02 23:39:23 -
[5] - Quote
Sorry I'm off on a bit of a ramble.
I think the issue with the current wardec mechanic is the way we perceive it. If lots of people left their corps and went NPC this might not be a bad thing.
I will be taking fleets out to low sec for PVP, it will be promoted to the community and I would promote other FC's to do the same thing. If we can get lots of groups going to low sec for pvp then the hi sec corp who war decs 200 corps concurrently will have to comply and come to low sec for pvp. I know this is long winded, I'm just trying to think outside of the box and analysing mechanics that we can use to our advantage.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Circumstantial Evidence
383
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Posted - 2017.03.03 00:36:25 -
[6] - Quote
I don't think CCP will do much to make life in NPC corp better, since "their metrics show" retention increases for players who are in player corps. It can be trial and error to find the right one, but that is where CCP provides the most help (corp recruitment / Search tab, & ads.)
Wardec corps watch where the most players gather; if a corp is less visible around trade and mission hubs, it should not get "selected" as often. And some wardecs could be avoided if players could simply be more polite with local chatter and when interacting with others. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2613
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Posted - 2017.03.03 00:41:39 -
[7] - Quote
Aaron wrote:- must be in an NPC corp to be part of the community the 11% npc corp tax makes that seem like a silly rule to me, 1 man tax evasion corps ftw!
@ChainsawPlankto
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Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
254
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Posted - 2017.03.03 00:46:34 -
[8] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Sorry I'm off on a bit of a ramble.
I think the issue with the current wardec mechanic is the way we perceive it. If lots of people left their corps and went NPC this might not be a bad thing.
I will be taking fleets out to low sec for PVP, it will be promoted to the community and I would promote other FC's to do the same thing. If we can get lots of groups going to low sec for pvp then the hi sec corp who war decs 200 corps concurrently will have to comply and come to low sec for pvp. I know this is long winded, I'm just trying to think outside of the box and analyse mechanics that we can use to our advantage. You're right when you say the problem is all in perception. It's nowhere near as pervasive as you claim, and it actually needs to be deregulated by a large amount before it could be called healthy again. But I digress.
Let me raise you a third option: make a confederation (not alliance) of solo corps around a system of chat channels, mailing lists, and maybe freeport citadels. Make a text art logo and prominently display it in your members' bios. There is an ice mining group based out of Seil that does that and it's apparently it's the best defense against wardecs, awox, and corp theft that there is. They have community, identity, and plenty of fun while being functionally immune to wardecs and taxes.
You don't have to stay in npc corp to dodge wardecs. 50m per person to wardec isn't feasible for any high sec merc or wardeccing group. Especially when you can roll corp the next day.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20522
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Posted - 2017.03.03 01:54:25 -
[9] - Quote
Good luck
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
485
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Posted - 2017.03.03 13:58:35 -
[10] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Aaron wrote:- must be in an NPC corp to be part of the community the 11% npc corp tax makes that seem like a silly rule to me, 1 man tax evasion corps ftw!
What's 11% of 0 isk earnings?
That is the reality for some people in eve due to the way the wardec mechanic is used. They are station or gate camped until they drop roles and leave their corp. They join a new corp and the same thing happens. I know you can see it's difficult for some of us to earn.
Being NPC will give us some breathing space where we can learn new tactics or learn how to play. The benefits of being NPC are still good, if people take a step back and spend a few months NPC they can look at joining a hisec corp at a later date.
NPC = completely avoiding wardec mechanics, have a think on it.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
617
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Posted - 2017.03.03 14:40:44 -
[11] - Quote
This is gonna be good. I thoroughly enjoyed the topics here on your Blue Null sec attempt. I put a fiver on Dracvlad screwing you over within 5 pages from now. |
Ivory Harcourt
Space Ants Army of New Eden
41
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Posted - 2017.03.03 15:05:55 -
[12] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Aaron wrote:- must be in an NPC corp to be part of the community the 11% npc corp tax makes that seem like a silly rule to me, 1 man tax evasion corps ftw! What's 11% of 0 isk earnings? That is the reality for some people in eve due to the way the wardec mechanic is used. They are station or gate camped until they drop roles and leave their corp. They join a new corp and the same thing happens. I know you can see it's difficult for some of us to earn. Being NPC will give us some breathing space where we can learn new tactics or learn how to play. The benefits of being NPC are still good, if people take a step back and spend a few months NPC they can look at joining a hisec corp at a later date. NPC = completely avoiding wardec mechanics, have a think on it.
What kind of new tactics? |
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
490
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Posted - 2017.03.03 15:20:38 -
[13] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:This is gonna be good. I thoroughly enjoyed the topics here on your Blue Null sec attempt. I put a fiver on Dracvlad screwing you over within 5 pages from now.
Drac won't be part of this.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Drammie Askold
Saints Of Havoc Rate My Ticks
54
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Posted - 2017.03.03 15:25:02 -
[14] - Quote
I wish you the best of luck. IMO there does need to be something like this in Eve.
What New Eden needed was Wise Immortal Philosopher Kings. What New Eden got was Sociopathic Immortal poo-flinging monkeys . . . vOv
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59700
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Posted - 2017.03.03 15:25:50 -
[15] - Quote
I think it's a pretty good idea, especially for new players to learn how to work together in a fleet.
I suggest advertising in and or around the new player systems, start up a small fleet and run a few missions or exploration sites first to get them sorta familiar with working together in a fleet.
Then maybe do some 1v1 Duel action in high sec with some PvP mods fitted and explain basic encounter tactics, followed with a few 'exercises' of tactical withdraw.
They should also have their Overview set up correctly, practice making / using Safe Spots along with D-scan before actually going to low sec.
Anyway, just something to consider. Hope you have good luck and much success.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Torin Corax
Game of Roams
251
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Posted - 2017.03.03 17:59:17 -
[16] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Sorry I'm off on a bit of a ramble.
I think the issue with the current wardec mechanic is the way we perceive it. If lots of people left their corps and went NPC this might not be a bad thing.
I will be taking fleets out to low sec for PVP, it will be promoted to the community and I would promote other FC's to do the same thing. If we can get lots of groups going to low sec for pvp then the hi sec corp who war decs 200 corps concurrently will have to comply and come to low sec for pvp. I know this is long winded, I'm just trying to think outside of the box and analyse mechanics that we can use to our advantage.
I wish you the very best with this. NPSI is fun and to be encouraged.
That said, if you are going into low sec I hope you are prepared to deal with awoxing, it will almost certainly happen if your idea grows. If you provide a group of targets in low sec, you can be sure that someone is going to try and take advantage of you....this is Eve after all. Very dangerous to assume that high sec war dec corps are scared to operate in low sec...some might be, but there are certainly those who will go low if they know there are targets available.
Not saying you shouldn't do it....just be careful. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3478
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Posted - 2017.03.03 18:01:26 -
[17] - Quote
A community needs a purpose, a common goal / interest to work. Just a "blue highsec group" is not enough of a program. There are so many channels to hang out and chat, I don't need another one. Convince me to join your group ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
490
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Posted - 2017.03.03 21:13:02 -
[18] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:A community needs a purpose, a common goal / interest to work. Just a "blue highsec group" is not enough of a program. There are so many channels to hang out and chat, I don't need another one. Convince me to join your group ...
The main purpose is to avoid being wardeced, it also serves as a platform for linking up with guys who want to grind missions or pvp. It can serve as training for new players or old players who dont know pvp. It will be more than just a chat channel.
If I have to convince you too much then this is probably not for you and youre probably already well versed with Eve and comfortable with what youre doing already.
I'm looking for the guys who are tired of being in hi sec corps that are constantly war deced where the players unable to do anything..another purpose of this venture is to try and change our perception. Being in a corp is not the only way to play Eve, this can be perceived as an exercise that may help people to think outside of the box.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
491
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Posted - 2017.03.03 21:53:06 -
[19] - Quote
Torin Corax wrote:Aaron wrote:Sorry I'm off on a bit of a ramble.
I think the issue with the current wardec mechanic is the way we perceive it. If lots of people left their corps and went NPC this might not be a bad thing.
I will be taking fleets out to low sec for PVP, it will be promoted to the community and I would promote other FC's to do the same thing. If we can get lots of groups going to low sec for pvp then the hi sec corp who war decs 200 corps concurrently will have to comply and come to low sec for pvp. I know this is long winded, I'm just trying to think outside of the box and analyse mechanics that we can use to our advantage. I wish you the very best with this. NPSI is fun and to be encouraged. That said, if you are going into low sec I hope you are prepared to deal with awoxing, it will almost certainly happen if your idea grows. If you provide a group of targets in low sec, you can be sure that someone is going to try and take advantage of you....this is Eve after all. Very dangerous to assume that high sec war dec corps are scared to operate in low sec...some might be, but there are certainly those who will go low if they know there are targets available. Not saying you shouldn't do it....just be careful.
I hear you. My Fc'ing will have a careful approach where at first I would only request cheap frigs and cruisers, I'd generally be looking for regular faces within my fleet and help them to grow and understand whats going on within a pvp environment.
I can be quite tricky myself. a small example of the PVP I do: I was in an arbitraitor docked and there was about 7 hostiles in local with one of them (a Cerberus pilot) who kept trying to bait me to undock. I played a little dumb to keep his interest while logging on my second account in a fleet stabber.
My Arbitritor fit was minimal DPS and all tank, I knew he was obviously trying to bait me. I undock in my arbitraitor and wait for him to fire, he fires and I spring into action he is pointed and dual webbed I set my drones on him, small lasers and neut. 5 of his friends undock in frigate and destroyer sized ships and start shooting at me, I undock my 2nd account in a fleet stabber and primary the Cerberus and destroy it quickly. I lost both ships with a value of 80m and the cerberus pilot lost 243m.
I won the isk war and felt reasonably happy. Other fleets will have to be careful of me taking advantage of their bait and losing the isk war.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1133
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Posted - 2017.03.03 22:39:12 -
[20] - Quote
This isn't such bad idea tbh i was part of something similar if you persist you can have steady active pilots to create content around them for other pilots to follow.
Depend of how it take it will be cool avenue for ppl to try stuff or it will be just another dead chat channel.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4950
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Posted - 2017.03.04 00:23:15 -
[21] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: LOL! Yeah, it's been tried before, and never got far. It turns into somebody having to constantly, day after day, inform random comers and goers about what you're doing, where to go, how to do it, etc. And of course there's the continuous problem of spais, awoxers, and troll lulzers disrupting things. You can set up some kind of password-protected channel or vetting system. But that turns into a constant chore of vetting people and providing passwords. And in any event, if you do that, you end up with a small "core" group, and a big "shopping mall" group of various wandering through and coming and going.
Eve has evolved good mechanics for Corps and Alliances to be able to control membership and handle internal communication. But once you try doing that with the general public, it becomes a real chore. And if you avail yourself of the Corp or Alliance organization mechanics, you're subject to wardecs.
But for an example of successful public cat herding, check out the Anti-Ganking chat channel. It works, but only because some dedicated coolheads with the patience of Job keep moderating it, booting spais and trolls, and sharing info with newcomers. |
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
491
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Posted - 2017.03.04 01:50:55 -
[22] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: LOL! Yeah, it's been tried before, and never got far. It turns into somebody having to constantly, day after day, inform random comers and goers about what you're doing, where to go, how to do it, etc. And of course there's the continuous problem of spais, awoxers, and troll lulzers disrupting things. You can set up some kind of password-protected channel or vetting system. But that turns into a constant chore of vetting people and providing passwords. And in any event, if you do that, you end up with a small "core" group, and a big "shopping mall" group of various wandering through and coming and going. Eve has evolved good mechanics for Corps and Alliances to be able to control membership and handle internal communication. But once you try doing that with the general public, it becomes a real chore. And if you avail yourself of the Corp or Alliance organization mechanics, you're subject to wardecs. But for an example of successful public cat herding, check out the Anti-Ganking chat channel. It works, but only because some dedicated coolheads with the patience of Job keep moderating it, booting spais and trolls, and sharing info with newcomers.
Well this is different from what the AG do. Perhaps look at this venture as a bulletin board for PVP and missions, there could be a few guys interested in finding others to take on missions if youre doing it as NPC then all you have to do is make sure you dont have a shiny ship which will help you avoid being ganked.
FC's could roll through here and build their experience if there are people who are enthusiastic about being in a fleet. This sounds like a cool thing to be involved in on a friday or saturday night.
Sit and troll or awox on the channel all day for all I care ill just put you on ignore and go right back to what I was doing. thats about as far as my moderation will go. lol
Generally this is all about playing Eve in it's broadest sense. Awoxers and trolls are free to come try and disrupt us, In my opinion there wont really be much to disrupt due to the fact that they wont be able to use the wardec mechanic to make us dock up. If it gets set up as I describe then they will have to get in a fleet and face us in low sec.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
493
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Posted - 2017.03.06 04:14:27 -
[23] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Eve has evolved good mechanics for Corps and Alliances to be able to control membership and handle internal communication. But once you try doing that with the general public, it becomes a real chore. And if you avail yourself of the Corp or Alliance organization mechanics, you're subject to wardecs.
Maybe were reading into it a bit too much, I know there's lots of solo guys who just want to play some ******* Eve. Like I said just think bulletin board you can log in and be sure to find some cool dudes doing some missions or pvp.
Yes I understand that you have a very organised mechanic within a corp/alliance 100% agree there. But whats the point of it if you join a hi sec corp and cant even undock or mission because of an overwhelming war dec that the corp cant handle?
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
269
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Posted - 2017.03.06 04:52:26 -
[24] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Eve has evolved good mechanics for Corps and Alliances to be able to control membership and handle internal communication. But once you try doing that with the general public, it becomes a real chore. And if you avail yourself of the Corp or Alliance organization mechanics, you're subject to wardecs. Maybe were reading into it a bit too much, I know there's lots of solo guys who just want to play some ******* Eve. Like I said just think bulletin board you can log in and be sure to find some cool dudes doing some missions or pvp. Yes I understand that you have a very organised mechanic within a corp/alliance 100% agree there. But whats the point of it if you join a hi sec corp and cant even undock or mission because of an overwhelming war dec that the corp cant handle?
1) undock and fight. Cut your teeth on some pvp. So long as you aren't salty about it most wardeccers are likely to drop it. Or at least give you a little bit more respect for it.
2) move somewhere else. High-sec is a bIg place. Get off the beaten trail and find a quiet little corner and most wardeccers won't bother following you.
3) mercenaries are always an option. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2117
|
Posted - 2017.03.06 08:30:28 -
[25] - Quote
It may work, but you start with a lot of disadvantages: - No Corp. Office - No Corp. Hangars - No Corp. Wallet - No Corp. POCOs - No. Corp. POS, Citadels or Engeniering Complexes - High Corp. Tax that is 100% wasted and will give no-one a benefit appart from "no more wardec". - No Corp. roles, no way to kick people (You may only change the channel password now and then without giving everybody the new one) - You have to teach every newbie that some people in the same NPC Corp are not freindly/not part of the network - Probalbly more I didn't think of
You have to counter all this by offering a couple of nice benefits that make the players stick together. Like an own Teamspeak Server. Good Luck |
Salvos Rhoska
2351
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Posted - 2017.03.06 09:01:02 -
[26] - Quote
Might I suggest the name "NPC Anonymous", ticker NPCA.
Setup a forum/website, chat channel and voice server. Perhaps a weekly group mail.
Choose a home region, or constellation.
Recruit new players. Try to get beneficial tax rates for listed members from local pocos/structures in exchange for traffic. Perhaps setup/rotate corps on the side to help organize limited actions.
I think there could be demand for this from casual npc capsuleers to have stleast some social interaction and a platform for cooperating with others.
PvE v PvP
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Salvos Rhoska
2351
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Posted - 2017.03.06 09:31:08 -
[27] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:I don't think CCP will do much to make life in NPC corp better, since "their metrics show" retention increases for players who are in player corps. It can be trial and error to find the right one, but that is where CCP provides the most help (corp recruitment / Search tab, & ads.)
Wardec corps watch where the most players gather; if a corp is less visible around trade and mission hubs, it should not get "selected" as often. And some wardecs could be avoided if players could simply be more polite with local chatter and when interacting with others.
The metric can also be understood as meaning players that prefer joining corps are the ones that sre more EVE suitable to begin with. I dont know if the metric shows true unique new players, or new accounts universally
Its circumstantial evidence, as your name suggests.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Special Agent
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59809
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Posted - 2017.03.06 09:38:31 -
[28] - Quote
Just wanted to say this to all of the PvP Nay Sayers here, not everyone joins this game to do PvP.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Hakawai
State War Academy Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2017.03.06 10:18:42 -
[29] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:1) undock and fight. Cut your teeth on some pvp. So long as you aren't salty about it most wardeccers are likely to drop it. Or at least give you a little bit more respect for it.
2) move somewhere else. High-sec is a bIg place. Get off the beaten trail and find a quiet little corner and most wardeccers won't bother following you.
3) mercenaries are always an option. Lot's of things are possible for people who have already developed in-game skills and a steady income. Similarly if a new player succeeds in finding a Corp that fits their requirements they have many interesting options.
But initial startup in EVE is a mess, and there's no obvious, natural path out of highsec. Any initiative like this one that helps a little to make startup smoother and more fun is a good thing. It doesn't have to be perfect, or even excellent, to be 1000% better than what the game offers.
It's a lot more realistic than fighting back against wardeccers. They don't wardec anyone who could beat them in combat, and they certainly won't suddenly act civilized if a merchant corp buys a few combat ships and "feeds" the vampires with some easy kills and some token grovelling by the sacrificial pilots.
BTW: (2) is what people actually do against wardecs (and get heavily criticized for /lol), and new players hiring mercs before they've got a decent cash flow is wildly impractical. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3872
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Posted - 2017.03.06 10:19:44 -
[30] - Quote
Aaron wrote: It is difficult for new, solo players and smaller corps to operate within hi sec due to the way in which the war dec mechanic is used
this is false
i fear for any newbro or newbro corp that looks to you for help
BLOPS Hauler
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