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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
772
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:42:11 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings all,
I am posting here to officially announce our market operation, the aim of which is to provide a neutral offshore free trading option for all traders of The Forge.
We are continuing the good work started by Karin Yang whom I worked closely with in defending the original much loved GÖö Planet V Trade Hubs in Perimeter. I have been given permission to continue the operation under the GÖö Planet V name, and Karin Yang may in future return to join us in running the market hubs.
The Future of Free Markets
Nullsec alliances have been attempting to extort ISK from anyone looking to provide trade hubs around Jita. This is an unwelcome development indeed, and it is sad to see that some operators have succumbed to this pressure and are looking to pass these costs onto the trading community through high broker fees. Unstopped, this will eventually result in exorbitant broker fees as the nullsec alliances demand increasingly more.
We vow to never succumb to the demands of the null sec alliances by paying extortion money. It is all too clear that In doing so would be of detriment to the future of trading around Jita.
Currently our presence alone is enough to drive down the fees of all operators in the area, although it is for this reason that our competitors will resort to anything in order to destroy our operation. Be under no illusion, if our trade hubs were to disappear overnight, broker fees would increase dramatically. I have had confirmation of this from our main competitor.
What we Offer
GÖö Planet V - Offshore Trading pledges to always offer the following at all of our market hubs:
GÇóWe will always offer a 0.1% public broker fee at all of our structures.
GÇóWe will always offer a 0.0% broker fee for life to traders who are willing to support us.
GÇóWe will replace any market hub which is lost to ensure your items remain safe and that you are able to continue trading.
GÇóWe will never lock anyone out, or prevent them from seeing orders placed in any of our hubs unlike our competitors.
GÇóWe will never pay a single ISK in extortion money to entities looking to make profit from traders and push up the cost of trading.
Trading at our Market Hubs
We aim to have a market hub open in each of the systems within a one jump range of the Jita market. This is so that we can provide an uninterrupted service, and to ensure that our market is resilient to attack and causes maximum frustration to any attackers.
We have a significant amount of capital to invest in order to ensure we are able to continuously replace any market hub which is lost, and all assets can be securely transferred via tether to tether citadel docking mechanics. For those that are able to wait for 5 days you are able to use asset safety to instantly transfer your assets to the new market hub.
By trading with us, you will never lose any items which you store in our structures, and can freely recover them at any time using asset safety.
Support GÖö Planet V - Offshore Trading
The future of free markets in New Eden is at stake, and we hope you will consider supporting us by trading in our market hubs.
For further details please join the in game channel 'Planet V Trade'.
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Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
772
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Posted - 2017.03.05 03:44:42 -
[2] - Quote
***reserved for further information***
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
284
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Posted - 2017.03.05 04:42:13 -
[3] - Quote
..Thanks for making this public and putting your operation out in the open to be scrutinized.
Are you on the Haulers Channel's Citadel White List?
Quote:We will always offer a 0.0% broker fee for lifer to traders who are willing to support us.
How much ISK does it take to become a supporter?
Quote:We aim to have a market hub open in each of the systems within a one jump range of the Jita market.
I don't want all the tiny citadel markets. I want to trade in a large market. The biggest reason Citadels haven't put Jita and Amarr out of business is because they are so fragmented, and none have emerged as the single top dog. The direction you are headed in will dilute my operations, why would I support that?
GÖá Sinclair Consulting GÖá
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3495
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Posted - 2017.03.05 11:19:50 -
[4] - Quote
Fully support this service! My understanding is, that "Planet V" is primarily targeted at offshoring buy-orders and trading easy to relocate high price stuff in the PLEX category.
If you donate a minimum of 20M to the replacement fund, you get 0.0 fee for lifetime. I know many pledged more.
To reiterate the most important point:
Quote:Be under no illusion, if our trade hubs were to disappear overnight, broker fees would increase dramatically.
Every trader whether using "Planet V" or other trade stations should have a vital interest in this initiative to exist and live on.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
47
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Posted - 2017.03.05 12:54:36 -
[5] - Quote
Moac Tor is a trustworthy friend. He has offered me great help in organizing defense of the planet v trade hub, and he also has invested a lot of isk to keep this service running. And I think to keep this service runninng healthily, a service fee of 20mil or higher per structure is more reasonable than for lifetime |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
773
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Posted - 2017.03.05 13:00:54 -
[6] - Quote
Karin Yang wrote:Moac Tor is a trustworthy friend. He has offered me great help in organizing defense of the planet v trade hub, and he also has invested a lot of isk to keep this service running. And I think to keep this service runninng healthily, a service fee of 20mil or higher per structure is more reasonable than for lifetime Thank you for your endorsement friend.
We will continue to keep the GÖö Planet V name alive in order provide traders with a neutral free trading option.
We hope to see you back if you decide to return. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
773
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Posted - 2017.03.05 15:04:49 -
[7] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..Thanks for making this public and putting your operation out in the open to be scrutinized....
Thank you for your feedback and questions which I will try and answer as best as I can.
"Are you on the Haulers Channel's Citadel White List?"
I have not made any arrangement to be on the haulers channel white list, although this is certainly something we could look into if doing so would be beneficial to anyone looking to use our market hubs. Currently a lot of offshore trade is done through remote buy orders, and in selling easy to transfer PLEX based goods. In the future I could certainly see more tangible goods being sold on our market as our operation becomes more established. As we are based within one jump of Jita for certain items it will certainly make a lot of sense to transport items to one of our market hubs to avoid the Jita broker fee.
Thank you for this suggestion, I will look into this as we develop.
"How much ISK does it take to become a supporter?"
The answer to the question regarding becoming a supporter is answered in the posts above, and I will also add this to the Q&A section.
"I don't want all the tiny citadel markets. I want to trade in a large market. The biggest reason Citadels haven't put Jita and Amarr out of business is because they are so fragmented, and none have emerged as the single top dog. The direction you are headed in will dilute my operations, why would I support that?"
In regards to operating multiple hubs around Jita, this is done for a number of strategic reasons. As we do not pay extortion ISK we need to be able to replace market hubs efficiently when under attack, and by limiting ourselves to a single system it makes it easy for any potential attackers to wardec our market hubs before they are able to online. By operating in multiple systems surrounding Jita it makes it far more difficult for any potential attacker to disrupt our operation, and thus allows us to continue to offer our service. Any operation that is static will be at the mercy of extortionists and will not be able to maintain low broker fees indefinitely.
In the longer term then a single market hub will likely emerge as the most popular, and we will then continue to keep the remaining market hubs active in order to maintain visibility, provide confidence, and to dissuade potential attackers.
Also most of the traders who use our markets sell PLEX based items and so are highly mobile, and all of our markets will be within one jump of Jita which makes it simple to remotely buy items from Jita and then transport them to the market hubs for sale avoiding the Jita broker fee. For these reasons we feel this strategy provides the right balance between being able to efficiently maintain our operation, whilst still providing a valuable service to traders of The Forge. |
Pukla Eto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2017.03.05 19:16:34 -
[8] - Quote
Fully supporting this movement and using Planet V citadels for all of my high value transactions (mostly injectors/extractors) and all 1-range from Jita buy orders. Keep up the good work! |
Trade All Day
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2017.03.05 20:58:44 -
[9] - Quote
What happened to the "we will keep our rate to 0.0% permanently (It applies to all future structures. This is not rounding down...)"?
Also, weren't you not behind the Planet V Trade Hub that had random tax hikes to 50% tax? You kept telling people to continue trading there despite the tax hikes. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
777
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Posted - 2017.03.05 21:25:02 -
[10] - Quote
We are actually the successor to the original GÖö Planet V Market Hub which you linked, although we still offer a permanent 0.0% rate for supporters of the GÖö Planet V Trade Hubs as mentioned in the opening post. We want to be transparent regarding our fees, and by charging a minimal 0.01% public broker it will help maintain our operation in the long term without the need to constantly modify our fee unlike our competitors. Most traders will still be trading at the 0.0% rate though.
We weren't behind the imposter GÖö Planet V market hub, if you check that same thread which you linked you will see the following.
"Just letting you all know, this is not the 'actual' PV Citadel run by Karin (I know because I have spoken to him and he has not been playing the game for the last week or so). It is actually an imposter citadel looking to capitalise on the absence of the official PV citadel.
Double check any orders that you put in this citadel for the meantime as the broker fee is changing intermittently. A neutral alternative will be in place by this weekend for those who wish to continue trading safely at 0% broker fee."
I actually petitioned CCP to change the name which is why it got changed later. |
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Battle Apple
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.03.05 23:40:02 -
[11] - Quote
Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
788
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Posted - 2017.03.06 00:00:15 -
[12] - Quote
Battle Apple wrote:Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do.
I do not see why using mercenaries would compromise our core principles. Mercenaries will simply do what their paymaster asks of them, whether that be for good or bad.
Our current strategy doesn't require that we hire mercenaries as we are looking to keep our costs low. Although if they offered their service for a fee which is low enough for us to continue to efficiently run our operation, then I would have no issue in hiring them in order to help fight the null sec entities looking to extort the traders of The Forge. |
Battle Apple
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.03.06 00:07:59 -
[13] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Battle Apple wrote:Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do.
Before he hired the mercs to fight Horde, he was using them to bully other market owners into shutting down or raising their rates so he could increase his profits. So the extortionist was just replaced with another. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
792
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Posted - 2017.03.06 00:12:30 -
[14] - Quote
Battle Apple wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Battle Apple wrote:Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do. Before he hired the mercs to fight Horde, he was using them to bully other market owners into shutting down or raising their rates so he could increase his profits. So the extortionist was just replaced with another. I believe he had the mercenaries hired against him initially by a competitor, and he then retaliated by hiring the mercenaries himself to attack the competitor. You would need to ask him for full details if he is willing to divulge them, although I am certain it was not him who initiated the attacks by using mercenaries. |
Jarr Kaleb
0
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Posted - 2017.03.06 00:50:59 -
[15] - Quote
I'm also fully support GÖö Planet V - Offshore Trading!
Moac Tor wrote:Be under no illusion, if our trade hubs were to disappear overnight, broker fees would increase dramatically. True.
Right now every other trade hub around Jita (except Moac Tor's GÖö Planet V - Offshore Trading) is either seased their operations\destroyed or is paying extortion money to Pandemic Horde. GÖö Planet V - Offshore Trading is literelly the last oplot standing. As soon as it falls they will raise fees immediately and we will get similar fees like we have in Dodixie player owned hubs at the moment... |
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
51
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Posted - 2017.03.06 00:52:30 -
[16] - Quote
Battle Apple wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Battle Apple wrote:Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do. Before he hired the mercs to fight Horde, he was using them to bully other market owners into shutting down or raising their rates so he could increase his profits. So the extortionist was just replaced with another. That's the story told by Ichooseyou, the one who surrendered to PH and then asked PH to attack Minmatar and Amarr player free hubs now. He sent mails to those citadel owner, "raise tax rate, or be destroyed by pandemic horde" |
Fannie Anathema
Anathema Holdings LTD.
4
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Posted - 2017.03.06 12:47:27 -
[17] - Quote
I'm happy to see someone came up with the 0% fee for ISK. I'd pay ~50m/month to get that service, along with a mailing list that is well updated and transparent about attacks. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
288
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Posted - 2017.03.06 19:54:40 -
[18] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Answers to Syd's questions.
..Thanks for the answers. One last question.
Do pilots need to donate 20M per Offshore Trading Hub? Or will one 20M donation cover all of your installments.
I'll contribute to your operation. Primarily because I think Pilots Doing Things In Space is good for Eve.
GÖá Sinclair Consulting GÖá
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IChooseYou
Tradors'R'us IChooseYou Holdings
96
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Posted - 2017.03.06 20:30:38 -
[19] - Quote
Karin Yang wrote:Battle Apple wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Battle Apple wrote:Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do. Before he hired the mercs to fight Horde, he was using them to bully other market owners into shutting down or raising their rates so he could increase his profits. So the extortionist was just replaced with another. That's the story told by Ichooseyou, the one who surrendered to PH and then asked PH to attack Minmatar and Amarr player free hubs now. He sent mails to those citadel owner, "raise tax rate, or be destroyed by pandemic horde", and I kept the screenshots
Funny, since I have those same mails that you sent me. Remember? When you forced me to raise my taxes and said that, next time, it wouldn't be VMG that you hired to bash my citadels.
Buying all pilots at the best prices out there!
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Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2017.03.07 01:50:07 -
[20] - Quote
IChooseYou wrote:Karin Yang wrote:Battle Apple wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Battle Apple wrote:Isn't it a bit silly to pose as this savior of free trade under Karins banner, when he himself was paying highsec Mercs to do the very same thing that Horde is doing now? Karin hired the mercenaries to help fight the extortionists, so that is very different to what Pandemic Horde are looking to do. Before he hired the mercs to fight Horde, he was using them to bully other market owners into shutting down or raising their rates so he could increase his profits. So the extortionist was just replaced with another. That's the story told by Ichooseyou, the one who surrendered to PH and then asked PH to attack Minmatar and Amarr player free hubs now. He sent mails to those citadel owner, "raise tax rate, or be destroyed by pandemic horde", and I kept the screenshots Funny, since I have those same mails that you sent me. Remember? When you forced me to raise my taxes and said that, next time, it wouldn't be VMG that you hired to bash my citadels.
Interesting, where is the screenshot of that mail? I didn't deny that you're my enemy though. |
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Love Turtle
Asteroid Belt Mining and Refining
4
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Posted - 2017.03.07 12:58:35 -
[21] - Quote
I have been playing this game for a long time and have been through many incarnations: pewpew, null, wh and just simple PvE grinding. I am getting old, so I trade mostly now through many accounts and toons.
I am not nearly as eloquent as Moac, IChooseYou or Karin, so I am reluctant to post out of embarrassment, but I would like to say something before I biomass.
The situation in the major trading hubs deserves attention from all the pilots of New Eden. This is not a local battle. It is indeed a fight for the future of freedom of trade in Eve.
When upstanding pilots are coerced into paying extortion fees to large gangs, it is a slippery slope. I do not question the integrity of anyone involved, but sometimes people make wrong choices and then get caught in a web of consequences that are beyond their control.
I urge those paying extortion fees to stop. Yes, you will lose some isk. We all may. But there is a moral absolute here. By supporting terrorism in hisec, you are degrading the game. Just say no.
Moac Tor, thank you for drawing the red line. I support your cause.
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Ethan02
Succurit Research and Development
5
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Posted - 2017.03.08 16:07:34 -
[22] - Quote
Pouring a bit of oil into the fire... Currently it seems IChooseYou has the largest market share and growing:
https://www.adam4eve.eu/market_hubs.php https://www.adam4eve.eu/location.php?id=1023164547009 |
Love Turtle
Asteroid Belt Mining and Refining
4
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Posted - 2017.03.08 20:19:23 -
[23] - Quote
GÇ£When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.GÇ¥
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Granio Nyveev
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2017.03.08 20:23:55 -
[24] - Quote
Clearly I'm too slow to figure this out on my own. Would someone mind helping me to understand this?
Why is PH interested in extorting HS citadel owners into raising their fees? I can't see what their end game is to this. How is it benefitting them? I get typical extortion - pay us or we'll blow up your citadel - but I don't understand "raise your fees or we'll blow up your citadel."
The only thing I can think up doesnGÇÖt even make sense. If they put the squeeze hard enough on HS citadels, they might be able to make their null citadels more attractive to trading and thus, draw some of the trading out to null, thus making things more readily available/cheaper to nullersGǪ but that seems pretty farfetched.
Can someone please set me straight.
Thanks,
GN
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Love Turtle
Asteroid Belt Mining and Refining
5
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Posted - 2017.03.08 20:39:59 -
[25] - Quote
Granio Nyveev wrote:Clearly I'm too slow to figure this out on my own. Would someone mind helping me to understand this?
Why is PH interested in extorting HS citadel owners into raising their fees? I can't see what their end game is to this. How is it benefitting them? I get typical extortion - pay us or we'll blow up your citadel - but I don't understand "raise your fees or we'll blow up your citadel."
The only thing I can think up doesnGÇÖt even make sense. If they put the squeeze hard enough on HS citadels, they might be able to make their null citadels more attractive to trading and thus, draw some of the trading out to null, thus making things more readily available/cheaper to nullersGǪ but that seems pretty farfetched.
Can someone please set me straight.
Thanks,
GN
Pandemic Horde are not forcing HS trading citadels to raise their fees. It is simpler than that. They are the Eve equivalent of the Mafia. They are demanding ISK for "protection."
You want to run a trade hub in Perimeter? No problem. Pay PH 100b a month and they will make sure you are safe.
You miss a payment and they break your legs.
Now then, what happens when someone agrees to pay 200b per month? Or 300b? Or what happens when the Gambino's decide Perimeter is actually their turf?
There is someone already reading this thread that thinks he has an answer to that, but I won't name names. I suspect he is quite nervous though.
Racketeering gets ugly quick. I pity those that have fallen into the web more than I hate them.
As for me, I will trade only in the GÖö Planet V - Offshore Trading hubs. |
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2017.03.08 20:42:36 -
[26] - Quote
Granio Nyveev wrote:Clearly I'm too slow to figure this out on my own. Would someone mind helping me to understand this?
Why is PH interested in extorting HS citadel owners into raising their fees? I can't see what their end game is to this. How is it benefitting them? I get typical extortion - pay us or we'll blow up your citadel - but I don't understand "raise your fees or we'll blow up your citadel."
The only thing I can think up doesnGÇÖt even make sense. If they put the squeeze hard enough on HS citadels, they might be able to make their null citadels more attractive to trading and thus, draw some of the trading out to null, thus making things more readily available/cheaper to nullersGǪ but that seems pretty farfetched.
Can someone please set me straight.
Thanks,
GN
Because the brokers fee of citadels will finally fall into PH's pocket through IChooseYou's hand. It can be trillions per month. |
Jarr Kaleb
1
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Posted - 2017.03.09 02:23:38 -
[27] - Quote
Ethan02 wrote:Pouring a bit of oil into the fire... Currently it seems IChooseYou has the largest market share and growing IChooseYou should say thank you to PV... he has it this easy just because PV is helping him with broker's fee rates.
___
I know, IChooseYou is also reading this thread... IChooseYou, can you do something with your not so good Perimeter hub placement? It is so bad I am crying every time I fly freighters and\or heavy tanked transports... it is huge pain in the ass to undock from your hub with all that bumping\re-aligning to Jita\any other gate. I imagine how pissed people who fly freighters a lot more than me.
I suck at photoshop, but here is a quick guide how to place trade hub\engineering complex so freighter pilots will love you - http://imgur.com/a/TpF4W |
Shank Yoass
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2017.03.09 13:13:53 -
[28] - Quote
PH gonna take you down, brah.
Ain't no way to stop the Horde. Best idea is be assimilated. Join us. It don't hurt.
No trade is the free trade.
We coming.
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Jarr Kaleb
1
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Posted - 2017.03.09 15:41:47 -
[29] - Quote
Shank Yoass wrote:PH gonna take you down, brah.
Ain't no way to stop the Horde. Best idea is be assimilated. Join us. It don't hurt.
No trade is the free trade.
We coming.
http://i.imgur.com/yVfbeus.gif From traders with <3. |
Fannie Anathema
Anathema Holdings LTD.
5
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Posted - 2017.03.09 15:59:59 -
[30] - Quote
Shank Yoass wrote:PH gonna take you down, brah.
Ain't no way to stop the Horde. Best idea is be assimilated. Join us. It don't hurt.
No trade is the free trade.
We coming.
You're a cocky one aren't you? |
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