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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Fable Hike
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:45:00 -
[1]
A correctly passive tanked drake with only T2 mods will tank as well as any faction gist setup drake, only the t2 drake mods cost about 5m each and the faction drakes mods cost several hundred million.
Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful.
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SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:47:00 -
[2]
Maybe instead of nerfing active tank needs to be buffing. CCP does want battles to last longer, after all.
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Griffin -- 100,000 ISK
ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK
Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK
War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |
Fable Hike
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:49:00 -
[3]
A T2 tank should not be as powerful if not more powerful than an ultra expensive faction tank. I'm talking Gist fittings that cost hundreds of millions.
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SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:53:00 -
[4]
Ok. What do I need to say to make you understand me? I just offered that active tanking (using a shield booster) could be boosted to the level of passive tanking. My argument is that we should boost what is inadequate rather than cut off the legs of what is more than adequate.
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Griffin -- 100,000 ISK
ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK
Standard Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK
War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:56:00 -
[5]
Do you have any maths to backup this claim?
"my drake is too uber" or "i couldent solo it so it must be overpowered" doesent really convince me. 
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 29/04/2007 18:54:35
Nah, passive tanks are pretty much in-line with game-mechanics. They're pretty much what happens if you toss dps entirely out the window, and focus entirely on tanking. A passive tanked ship does not have any cap-regen, nor does it deal out any damage. It's basically a sitting duck with the dps of a crappy cruiser. YES it can tank well, but that's pretty useless solo. Any opponent can just nos it dry to make it unable to scram or web anything (because, believe me, it's cap-regen sucks horribly), and if it doesn't have scrams, then the enemy can just warp away from it.
With the entire t2 market dropping in price, and seeing how cheap all t2 fittings have become compared to the past. I don't see the passive tanks as much of a problem. Slow chunks of metal that deal the damage of throwing soap at people... with their lack of mobility, get a blasterboat or two on it, and it's dead.
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Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:57:00 -
[7]
sure if you whinge about it enough they`ll nerf it.
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CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:59:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Fable Hike
Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful.
I agree 100%. People should buy the cheap and readily available stuff instead of whining about the cost of very rare stuff...
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: SonOTassadar
Ok. What do I need to say to make you understand me? I just offered that active tanking (using a shield booster) could be boosted to the level of passive tanking. My argument is that we should boost what is inadequate rather than cut off the legs of what is more than adequate.
In general I think it is cool to look at the buffing things side as opposed to just swinging the nerfbat but (if the OP is to be believed) saying that a Drake can passive tank with T2 gear equivalent to a faction fitted active setup tells me something is wrong in the T2 tanking side of the equation. To buff faction just means an even more uber Drake.
I will say I have never flown a Drake so do not know the exact details. just going off the OP and numerous other posts that say a passive Drake is an amazing thing (considered by many to be a bit too good). Again though...just what I have read.
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Chadawahee
Amarr
Debiloff's Vanguard
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:08:00 -
[10]
Everyone and his mother have been using nos for quite some time in pvp and the logical response to it is to switch to passive tanks. Its not realy new this.
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Wicked Child
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fable Hike
A correctly passive tanked drake with only T2 mods will tank as well as any faction gist setup drake, only the t2 drake mods cost about 5m each and the faction drakes mods cost several hundred million.
Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful.
So what you are really saying is ... Faction Mods are overpriced.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:49:00 -
[12]
so in actual fact u just meant to say.
nerf the drake?
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:51:00 -
[13]
Actually I think what hes saying is, omgomgomg ppl who fit wisely arent ezpwned by ppl who throw isk at the problem. 
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Quintus Archipirata
Moon Stone Logistics
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Quintus Archipirata on 29/04/2007 19:48:51
Originally by: Fable Hike
A correctly passive tanked drake with only T2 mods will tank as well as any faction gist setup drake, only the t2 drake mods cost about 5m each and the faction drakes mods cost several hundred million.
Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful.
Hummm let me guess, You have lots of these nice faction mods and you are worried about there value? Other than that what's the problem? Lets consider that it takes at least a month or so extra training to where you can even use a tech II mod over a nice fat faction mod. Now lets see, you save game time training by using this faction mod that has to be worth something. But then again some people do not think before they whine.
Go figure.
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KaptnSparrow
Caldari
TARDZ
Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:54:00 -
[15]
drake is fine,
i tanked a chimera in it without any problems
but to be fair the carrier pilot could only use 8 figthers.
--- we are open for applications convo me ---
gonads are open for new members! |
Elmo Zumwalt
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:05:00 -
[16]
The passive tank on the Ferox was nearly as good as the one on the Drake. Never did I see anybody complain about the Ferox passive tank. I simply do not see your reasoning as to why the drake is too powerful; instead it sounds like you are whining to me. |
Fable Hike
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:05:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Fable Hike on 29/04/2007 20:04:15
Can the T2 armor user ever outtank an equally skilled pilot who is using best faction armor gear? X-Type repairers, hardeners etc? No of course not. The faction user has better resists and more hp repaired per second ratio. The faction user will tank more dps than the T2 user because he paid bundles extra to do so.
So why can the T2 passive tanked drake outtank a faction tanked drake using Pith x-type hardeners, gist x-type repairer etc? Why is T2 passive tanking able to absorb more DPS than a billion isk active faction tank?
I'll tell you why, it's because passive tanking is in need of a huge NERF!
BTW, i haven't pvped against a passive tanked ship in a long long time, so don't start with that. I just happen to have noticed that passive tanking is way out of line.
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Elmo Zumwalt
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Fable Hike
Edited by: Fable Hike on 29/04/2007 20:02:56
Can the T2 armor user ever outtank an equally skilled pilot who is using best faction armor gear? X-Type repairers, hardeners etc? No of course not. The faction user has better resists and more hp repaired per second ratio.
So why can the T2 passive tanked drake outtank a faction tanked drake using Pith x-type hardeners, gist x-type repairer etc? Why is T2 passive tanking able to absorb more DPS than a billion isk active faction tank?
I'll tell you why, it's because passive tanking is in need of a huge NERF!
BTW, i haven't pvped against a passive tanked ship in a long long time, so don't start with that. I just happen to have noticed that passive tanking is way out of line.
And what exactly do you fly? |
Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Fable Hike
So why can the T2 passive tanked drake outtank a faction tanked drake using Pith x-type hardeners, gist x-type repairer etc? Why is T2 passive tanking able to absorb more DPS than a billion isk active faction tank?
Because having lots of ISK should not make you uber. I dont know if youve ever passive tanked, but doing so basically requires you to devote all of your slots into it. This means no tackling and crappy damage, so enemies can just warp away. And of course armor tankers can devote all their midslots to said tackling, since they need lowslots for that.
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Fable Hike
Edited by: Fable Hike on 29/04/2007 20:04:15
Can the T2 armor user ever outtank an equally skilled pilot who is using best faction armor gear? X-Type repairers, hardeners etc? No of course not. The faction user has better resists and more hp repaired per second ratio. The faction user will tank more dps than the T2 user because he paid bundles extra to do so.
So why can the T2 passive tanked drake outtank a faction tanked drake using Pith x-type hardeners, gist x-type repairer etc? Why is T2 passive tanking able to absorb more DPS than a billion isk active faction tank?
I'll tell you why, it's because passive tanking is in need of a huge NERF!
BTW, i haven't pvped against a passive tanked ship in a long long time, so don't start with that. I just happen to have noticed that passive tanking is way out of line.
Your argument didn't work the first time, repeating it again and again will not make it any better.
You've already been countered. A faction tank can still deal pretty damn nice dps, whereas the passive drake pewpew's the dps of a cow chewing a M1A2 Abrams.
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Cerui Tarshiel
Minmatar
Equilibrium Inc.
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:29:00 -
[21]
Fable Hike, provide fittings and numbers to support your argument. Just saying it's overpowered isn't proof it is. Full passive tank on the drake is indeed powerful but as has been said countless times it has bugger all damage output
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Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:32:00 -
[22]
Passive drakes are great for soaking large amounts of damage while you call in your friends to kill them, but thats it. A fully passive tanked drake has the dps of a small child throwing snowballs, and can't tackle at all.
Part of the strength of EVE is flexibility of builds. You have to juggle gank, tank, and tackling, along with other possibilities. Why shouldn't a ship that devotes all its mids and lows to tanking be able to do it well? I don't see you complaining about ships that decide to go straight EW or straight gank, and both of those builds are also overpowered in one arena at the expense of others.
Spending more isk doesn't mean you'll always be better. If it did, the game would be ruled by people who bought isk on ebay
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sakana
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:33:00 -
[23]
lies.
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Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rid**** Valer
Spending more isk doesn't mean you'll always be better. If it did, the game would be ruled by people who bought isk on ebay
Good point, except I think there are more people GTC-isking these days.
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Zilulil
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:34:00 -
[25]
Ok so the drake has no dps... But what about a passive tanked myrm? With 5 heavy drones it should be putting out some respectable dps and still be tanking up a storm.
Originally by: Tuxford
when a standard tech 1 item and a basic item love eachother very much...
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Petrothian Tong
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:36:00 -
[26]
errrrm, everybody can use faction (skill-wise)
T2.. you need to train months to use everything....
Geez.... those months of training ouaght to meant something....
-Siggi-
""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:38:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 29/04/2007 20:36:54
Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 29/04/2007 20:35:53
Originally by: Zilulil
Ok so the drake has no dps... But what about a passive tanked myrm? With 5 heavy drones it should be putting out some respectable dps and still be tanking up a storm.
How about: kill the drones. It's not like it has a huge drone-bay.
5 heavies dead, and then it's just a sitting tank that also can nos. Wow. I'm afraid now. xD
The myrm is a pretty fearsome ship, that has the potential to take out command ships (with t2 heavies, it cuts through most tanks very effectively).
It's major con is that it relies on it's short range for the NOS. Think around that, and it loses a component for it's effictivity. (a passive tanked myrm cannot go very fast).
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Ragornok
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:54:00 -
[28]
Ran into one of them T2 ubertank drakes last week. Took almost 15 minutes to actually destroy. I don't think his fitting skills were too great, you know how them T2 items usually need more CPU or Grid and all. He had nothing fitted in the high slots at all.
It's like a soccer team spending the entire budget on the best goalie in the world, and only having bottom string schoolgirls for the rest of the roster. Hard to score a goal against you, but you're never getting any points either.
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Kaaii
Caldari
Equilibrium LLC
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Fable Hike
A T2 tank should not be as powerful if not more powerful than an ultra expensive faction tank. I'm talking Gist fittings that cost hundreds of millions.
Maybe the real issue is the cost ppl charge for gisti?
Trading 101
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.04.29 21:05:00 -
[30]
well to put it straight:
OP you are an ***** and totally wrong.
There are only 2 ways a passive t2 Drake will outperform/outtank an active faction Drake:
1) Both are beeing nossed/neuted to oblivion.
Whining about this is like whining about a blasterthron beeing able to rip a railthron @ 7.5km distance.
2) The faction Drake's fitting and/or pilot is retarded.
Good active fittings need more thinking and brainwork but maybe thats only cause there are not enough module-choices for passive tanks (basically it's: los: shield power relay, mids:large extender/invul/shield recharger).
the only problem i see with passive tanking is that it is not viable for BS & capitals cause those ships lack the "oversized" modules that make the passive tanks viable.
please just rename small extenders into micro extender, medium extenders into small extenders and large extenders into medium extenders. then add a large extender that takes about 1000-1500pg and gives 10 000 - 15 000 shield (exact numbers beeing balance issues) and capital extenders which give 100 000 ish shield.
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