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Passive tanking needs to be nerfed.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Summer River	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:01:00 - [61] Originally by: Fable Hike A correctly passive tanked drake with only T2 mods will tank as well as any faction gist setup drake, only the t2 drake mods cost about 5m each and the faction drakes mods cost several hundred million. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful. Awww, is someone not selling enough overpriced faction modules?
Psorion Absolute Wrath Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:57:00 - [62] Originally by: Rid*** Valer* But when their sig penalty is stacked with the LSE's, the drake just becomes a HUGE target for any BS in the world. Train Shield rigging and Jury rigging to 5 and it goes down pretty far. Cloaked and AFK at a system near you...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.30 15:22:00 - [63] nerf drakes?
Sahjahn Caldari Black Wolves	Posted - 2007.04.30 15:27:00 - [64] nothing needs to be nerfed, the passive drake is all tank and no gank. If you're setup right yes you may struggle to break down it's tank but you shouldn't be worried too much by it's damage.
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.04.30 15:29:00 - [65] To the OP. Working things from their Market Price is a noobs mistake. The Market price is set by...The Players. Just look at the price of Hulks. They used to go for 500 mill a pop, now they are 285 and below. Just because something cost you 10 times what another item costs does NOT mean it should or will be 10 times as effective. Ask for a boost to faction gear if you think it's under powered but passive tanking seems perfectly fine to me. I can't comment on faction equipment as I have none.
Joebarchuck Amarr	Posted - 2007.04.30 16:25:00 - [66] Edited by: Joebarchuck on 30/04/2007 16:23:34 Originally by: Wicked Child Originally by: Fable Hike A correctly passive tanked drake with only T2 mods will tank as well as any faction gist setup drake, only the t2 drake mods cost about 5m each and the faction drakes mods cost several hundred million. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful. So what you are really saying is ... Faction Mods are overpriced. Yes, I think this is what he is saying. Anyway, we need to see some math here not just bs claim. A good faction tank will always be more powerful than a passive t2 tank. This is just a ridiculous claim. On a drake with a good faction tank you can stabilize your cap at 72% and have the following resist: 78, 92, 89, 85 and that is without and EM rig. So basically, before giving nerfing ideas to CCP, bring in proof. Only proof is what matters.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:00:00 - [67] Drakes passive tank fairly well. And they do very little damage, can't move, and can't tackle when they do. Myrmidon can also passive tank, and... probably about as well - it's got less mids, but more lows. And drones + damage bonus, so can do more dps than the drake too. But ... so what? These setups are ok for missions, but ... well not really any use at all for anything else. A passive tanked ship gets laughed at, because it's just not much of a threat. Oh it tanks well, but that's only a question of how fast you can get your friends to put the hurt on it. A drake with large shield extenders, and several +5% signature radius rigs, is a fat target - torps do full damage, and ... well, as far as I can tell, that means a single raven can break that tank.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:01:00 - [68] BWAHAAHAAA! Nothing to see here. New player crafted, player economy supported items trump uberrare faction loot garbage? Awesome. That is the key to longevity in a game. Players relying on players for the best materials. This isn't about Drakes or passive tanking. Some poon broke his piggy bank for a label on his lewtmobile and is getting wtfpwnt by player craftables. My day is complete. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Ashturi Nagano Mantigen Quanta	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:12:00 - [69] Originally by: Quintus Archipirata Edited by: Quintus Archipirata on 29/04/2007 19:48:51 Originally by: Fable Hike A correctly passive tanked drake with only T2 mods will tank as well as any faction gist setup drake, only the t2 drake mods cost about 5m each and the faction drakes mods cost several hundred million. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful. Hummm let me guess, You have lots of these nice faction mods and you are worried about there value? Other than that what's the problem? Lets consider that it takes at least a month or so extra training to where you can even use a tech II mod over a nice fat faction mod. Now lets see, you save game time training by using this faction mod that has to be worth something. But then again some people do not think before they whine. Go figure. this may have been pointed out already (I haven't gotten through everything) ...but it only takes about 3-4 days...
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:19:00 - [70] This will upset the Caldari. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune

Hexman Cryo Crypt inc. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:27:00 - [71] Why don't we just nerf the forums and avoid these worthless kinds of posts?? Originally by: CCP Oveur If you don't like it there, there are about 5000 other solar systems which you can
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:56:00 - [72] Fit a full set of crystal implants to that active shield tanker, and then tell me that the passive tank is better... Honestly, a PST Myr is pretty useful for PvE. And can even be pretty cool for solo PvP - as my sister showed me when her Myr sent a ganged Brutix and Domi running with their tails between their legs (she souldn't scramble them) - but as soon as the numbers increase, the large tank becomes less of an advantage. I know what would have happened if two of my sister had met 2 Brus and 2 Domis. In the end, PvP is very little about the tank, the gank and the EW are more important. But most important of all, the Blob.
perfection	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:03:00 - [73] MMM nerf not the answer, it's about time the price of these overpriced faction modules came down.
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:21:00 - [74] The passive tanked drake has 4 more slots to tank with than the active... So what you're relay saying, is that low-slots are overpowered.
Chia Mulholland Mulholland Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:31:00 - [75] OP, have you considered why the faction items cost hundreds of millions and the T2 equivalents cost about 5m? It's not because CCP have dictated it. It's because people are willing to pay more for faction items - probably because they think they're better than T2. You obviously don't think faction is better than T2. So maybe you're seeing something that other people miss or you're missing something that other people see.
WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:31:00 - [76] Originally by: Ilkin Kaptan No, this thread shall not die, it never dies. Like anything else in the universe it cannot be destroyed, only change form. This is simply a reincarnation of an old thread started a long time ago, probably sometime during Ultima Online, Anarchy Online or maybe Everquest. I think the actual OP was entitled 'Whaaaa! Somebody pwn's better than me. Nerf them please' It goes back to pre-forum/Internet days. If you want to confine it to its life in the roleplaying arena it goes back to D&D, with one player complaining to the DM that their +5 ring of protection wasn't as versatile as the other player's +5 flaming sword! Prior to that it can be traced back through the annals of human history, "Whaaaa, they have 2000lb bombs they can drop down air shafts and we have a non-existant air defence system", "Whaaaa, they have muskets and we only have sabres", "Whaaaa, they have armor and we have... ummm, clothes", and so-on. Wred ----- Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Vactet Immortalis Silens	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:39:00 - [77] Originally by: Ilea Celentay I hate drakes! Whine Whine Cry for Mommy Whine I love it how everyone goes. "OMG i cant beat/just got beaten by a guy in an X. NERF IT! I R GOD! THIS CANT HAPPEN". I just hope one day they instead will start asking themselves why they got beaten or couldnt beat the guy and figure out their own weakness's. Cause nerfing caldari isnt nice. If they nerf caldari, then they should also nerf gallentee and ducttapers into the effectiveness of a hamster on crystal meth. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Hexman Cryo Crypt inc. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Chia Mulholland OP, have you considered why the faction items cost hundreds of millions and the T2 equivalents cost about 5m? It's not because CCP have dictated it. It's because people are willing to pay more for faction items - probably because they think they're better than T2. You obviously don't think faction is better than T2. So maybe you're seeing something that other people miss or you're missing something that other people see. I've always thought that faction stuff (and some named stuff) are so overpriced because people with low SP's can use T2-grade stuff without the actuall skills to use them. Take 1400 artillery cannons: The t1 named "Scout" counterpart is insanely expensive..why? It allows people without the skills to use the 1400 T2 gun to have similar performance. Except for t2 ammo, the named version has same stats. instead of mindlessly asking for certain mods to be nerfed, ffs, train up the skills to use the t2 versions and save isk and leave us alone. Originally by: CCP Oveur If you don't like it there, there are about 5000 other solar systems which you can
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.04.30 18:56:00 - [79] Originally by: Chia Mulholland OP, have you considered why the faction items cost hundreds of millions and the T2 equivalents cost about 5m? It's not because CCP have dictated it. It's because people are willing to pay more for faction items - probably because they think they're better than T2. You obviously don't think faction is better than T2. So maybe you're seeing something that other people miss or you're missing something that other people see. Some faction stuff is better than T2, but not by much. Example: Tech II Capacitor Recharge Low Slot has 24% increase to cap recharge and a 11% loss of Shield boost. A True Sansha Low slot recharger has a 25% increase and a 10% loss of shield boosting. Its better, but not by enough to justify the astronomical costs differences. Tech II is becoming a low cost way for people without major 0.0 skills to level the playing field. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Badhands Gallente DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.01 01:13:00 - [80] What makes passive tanking so powerful is the ability to fit oversized shield mods so easily. I can fit large shield extenders/boosters on a BC. Can you fit a large armor rep on a myrmidon? Nope. But if you could, with the ease with which you can fit a large shield booster, armor tanking would be taken to a whole new level.

Miz Cenuij OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.05.01 01:23:00 - [81] Another NERF bat thread? just what we need, get a clue noob. "Men are going to die.. and im going to kill them".
ShardowRhino Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2007.05.01 01:41:00 - [82] Originally by: Wicked Child Originally by: Fable Hike A correctly passive tanked drake with only T2 mods will tank as well as any faction gist setup drake, only the t2 drake mods cost about 5m each and the faction drakes mods cost several hundred million. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this? Passive tanking with T2 mods is as powerful as any expensive faction fitted shield booster setup ship. It's ridiculous and something needs to change. Passive tanking is far to powerful. So what you are really saying is ... Faction Mods are overpriced. QFFT!! Price in no way shape or form should determine capability of the gear. I will also rephrase that for clarity, Player set prices in no way shape or form should change the effectiveness of a particular item. This means that a 2isk heavy launcher should in no way be any different then a 10million isk heavy launcher just due to the price difference. Also passive tanking kills your low slots and reduces your midslots. You get shield regen but you don't get tougher shields. This means that there is going to be a weakness to a particular or even 2 types of damage. I haven't had a t2 fitted,passive drake but i have had a t1 fitted passive drake. Is it tough? Well against players using the wrong type of ammo against me, sure. However my damage was weaksauce compared to what I could have had with an active shield tank. Then theres that part about being weak to certain types of damage. Passive tanking seems to be better off used in missions or ratting since you don't have to worry about the full spectrum of damage types at the same time. In pvp you can't predict who your going to run into,what ship they will be using ,what weapons and what types of damage they will be dealing out. This means a passive tank is going to be vulnerable meaning its a matter of you finding the right ammo to nullify the benefit of their passive shield tank. For the complaint about a t2 fitted ship working on par with an ultra expensive(remember cost does not = effectiveness) then this should actually work in your favor. the more you spread the word that a t2 fitted ship can work equally as well as your gisti mods, the higher the chances are that those mods will come down in price due to dwindling demand. The right way to argue this for the OP is to ask them to nerf "supply and demand", not a particular ship or way to fit your ship.
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2007.05.01 01:43:00 - [83] Edited by: Grendelsbane on 01/05/2007 01:40:48 The original post is comparing apples to oranges. Passive tanking is not active tanking - hence the name, passive tanking. Different people will want to use different methods, and if people who choose to go active are much more numerous and/or willing to spend a lot more, and/or if modules for one or the other are in very short supply, then prices will go up. As I understand it, pretty much ALL of those factors apply here. Both in EVE and in real life, highest cost does not always mean best performance, either in absolute terms or in terms of cost/benefit ratio. You generally will not find some sort of "X performance per dollar added" rule. Everything has an absolute cost to make, a price someone wants to try to sell it for, and a value that any particular buyer has for that item. If the buyer values the item as higher than the price, then they'll buy it. There is no rule that something must cost more just because it works better- in fact, costing less is simply another thing that makes it "better" Also, look at the training time costs needed to run the T2 modules, versus simply being able to plonk down ISK for faction mods. Sounds to me like someone got Pwned by a passive-tanked Drake.
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.01 02:23:00 - [84] Originally by: Badhands What makes passive tanking so powerful is the ability to fit oversized shield mods so easily. I can fit large shield extenders/boosters on a BC. Can you fit a large armor rep on a myrmidon? Nope. But if you could, with the ease with which you can fit a large shield booster, armor tanking would be taken to a whole new level. boing! I hereby petition to change this thread from a nerf passive shieldtank thread to a boost the ease of active armor tank fitting thread!
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.05.01 04:39:00 - [85] This thread was never about nerfing passive tanks, it was about nerfing caldari, not once did I see the OP refer to any other ship other than the Drake's. Other people refered to other ships and passive tanks on them but the OP failed to do it. Tell you what OP when they nerf NOS I'll stop using the passive tank, a viable counter to nos.
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.01 08:59:00 - [86] Someone please call up the Morsus Mihi guys that killed my fully T2 tanked passive Drake tonight and tell them it needs to be nerfed. Having no tackle and so little damage I couldn't break the active armor tank on their Pilgrim with my T2 drones and full rack of missiles before the Eos put me in my pod is not enough! Seriously, why not just take all but the civilian modules out of the game since everything else is so overpowered? Being able to choose how you fly your ship is a large part of what makes EvE a fun game to play and saying that things need to be changed because one way of doing things works better than another, but has serious negative side effects is pretty stupid. And for people who say you can't passive tank armor, try a damage control, 3 EANM IIs and some 1600mm plates. Sure, no regen, but you will have strong resists and sufficient hitpoints to tank for quite a while as your (better than shield tanker) dps does its thing.
Lucy Moo	Posted - 2007.05.01 09:16:00 - [87] Originally by: Selnix Someone please call up the Morsus Mihi guys that killed my fully T2 tanked passive Drake tonight and tell them it needs to be nerfed. Having no tackle and so little damage I couldn't break the active armor tank on their Pilgrim with my T2 drones and full rack of missiles before the Eos put me in my pod is not enough! Seriously, why not just take all but the civilian modules out of the game since everything else is so overpowered? Being able to choose how you fly your ship is a large part of what makes EvE a fun game to play and saying that things need to be changed because one way of doing things works better than another, but has serious negative side effects is pretty stupid. And for people who say you can't passive tank armor, try a damage control, 3 EANM IIs and some 1600mm plates. Sure, no regen, but you will have strong resists and sufficient hitpoints to tank for quite a while as your (better than shield tanker) dps does its thing. Oh no, you couldn't solo two other T2 cruisers/T2 battlecruisers in your T1 battlecruiser, this must mean that drake/passive tanking doesn't need a nerf afterall!
bogir War And Peace Construction	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:04:00 - [88] not sure if then have been sayed - ditten read all postes.. but here is my 2cp Drake ( pasiv tank ) good ship for PVE --- you will crippel you self in pvp if you dont have scrambler on. and then you have to lower youre tank sins drake is shield and they use mid slots.. as pasiv tank you have cap regen = crappy as hell... then you might use ative hardneres or you only have mid range resistens and that hurt you as well... and then you meet a player whit nos on in pvp.. he will drian you in no time - then you cant scramble and (if useing ative hardners) you resistens will drop a lot. and now the drake is just a block of metal dieing.. slower then ohter ship but still he will lose. a drake is and can only relly do good in PVE but yes as a PVE ship the drake is a cool ship. ( cheep and cheep set up for lvl 3 missions ) tons of lvl 4 missions the drake cant make. and its way to low dps to relly use for lvl 4. in ohter words.. the drake as ship is oki as it is now.. -- pasiv tanking is oki as it is now.. sins pvp you dont relly use shield tanking as you crippel you self.
Luigi Thirty Caldari FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:33:00 - [89] Did someone lose a faction-fitted ship to a Drake? ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:((((
SFShootme The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:42:00 - [90] Edited by: SFShootme on 01/05/2007 11:38:47 Quote: So why can the T2 passive tanked drake outtank a faction tanked drake using Pith x-type hardeners, gist x-type repairer etc? Why is T2 passive tanking able to absorb more DPS than a billion isk active faction tank? Z-omfg, why can my active tanked t1 raven tank more than my passive gist-x-type raven? Anwser: Because maybe it whas never intended to be passive tanked. Same goes for the drake only then the other way around Tho shall give Life, for Life.



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