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Armor Tanking, Am I doing it wrong?

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Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5924	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:00:01 - [31] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot. Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it. The bounties are decent; the loot and salvage sucks. I think most of the bounties for NPC battleships are in the 1-1.2m ISK range. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 9	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:02:56 - [32] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot. Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it. The bounties are decent; the loot and salvage sucks. I think most of the bounties for NPC battleships are in the 1-1.2m ISK range. Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first?
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5926	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:11:02 - [33] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first? Yes, bounties are totalled up and paid out every 20 minutes. If you click on the NPC in the overview it shows how much the individual bounty payout is. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:18:37 - [34] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first? Yes, bounties are totalled up and paid out every 20 minutes. If you click on the NPC in the overview it shows how much the individual bounty payout is. Ahh darn I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well. I'm just doing these missions for combat practice. Don't really need the extra isk now that I've sold those plexes. I know you probably did these missions 1000+ times but I grinded most of my missions through the other types, distribution, mining etc (Back then there was no guide). It is refreshing to be just doing combat instead of all the other boring Eve stuff.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 15285	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:21:55 - [35] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=248 Best section to ask such questions, GD can be....unreliable when it comes to PVE content discussions.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:22:02 - [36] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: [Ahh darn I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well. I'm just doing these missions for combat practice. Don't really need the extra isk now that I've sold those plexes. I know you probably did these missions 1000+ times but I grinded most of my missions through the other types, distribution, mining etc (Back then there was no guide). It is refreshing to be just doing combat instead of all the other boring Eve stuff. Trust me, if the bounties were 10m ISK per NPC battleship I'd never blitz another mission... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
ISD Chanisa Nemes ISD Community Communications Liaisons 86	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:33:33 - [37] - Quote Thread has been moved to Ships & Modules. ISD Chanisa Nemes Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 59837	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:45:08 - [38] - Quote You might wanna check the Market - show all skills - to see if you have all available skills trained that will help boost ship stats. I know within the past year or so CCP has added some new Resistance Compensation skills for Armor and Shield. Since somebody mentioned it, if needed here's a list of Core Fitting Skills. Man I must be getting slow in my old age. I was going to suggest other sub-forums more suited for this topic than General Discussion but I see other players have already done so, plus I see ISD Chanisa Nemes already moved this thread while I was writing this reply.. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
mkint 1539	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:47:42 - [39] - Quote I didn't read the whole thread, but don't omni-tank for missions. To start with, over-tank based on your target. lows: 1x rep 4x active hardeners kin/therm 2/2 (gurista/serpentis) expl/kin 3/1 (angel, most rogue drones) em/therm 1/3 (sansha/blood) Don't use damage control or eanms or things like that. They don't put very much resists where you need them, making the bonuses and therefore the module a waste. Some rogue drone missions have different damage profiles. Use eve-survival to get a better idea for the specific mission, though keep in mind it might not be perfectly accurate. After you've got more experience with the missions and have a better sense of triggers and incoming damage start cutting back on your tank (shut off hardeners to see if you can still tank it) and eventually start swapping resists for damage mods. Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:52:36 - [40] - Quote It's a Marauder. If you need 5 active tank modules you're doing it all wrong. Most missions can be completed with the default shield buffer, a MJD and careful avoidance of triggers. You shouldn't need more than 2-3 (tops) active modules for an armor tank. Damage control, reactive armor hardener and Deadspace large armor repairer are all you really need. You can add a mission-specific hardener for some of the heavier missions, but again - it's probably overkill. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:53:41 - [41] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: You might wanna check the Market - show all skills - to see if you have all available skills trained that will help boost ship stats. I know within the past year or so CCP has added some new Resistance Compensation skills for Armor and Shield. Since somebody mentioned it, if needed here's a list of Core Fitting Skills. Man I must be getting slow in my old age. I was going to suggest other sub-forums more suited for this topic than General Discussion but I see other players have already done so, plus I see ISD Chanisa Nemes already moved this thread while I was writing this reply.. DMC I have all the armor resistance compensation skills at V. I was actually reading up more on the Assault mission, and I think the problem is the guide says the damage type is Kinetic/Thermal, but they were firing lasers at me so maybe it is EM/Thermal. In which case no wonder I was getting murdered.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:56:40 - [42] - Quote mkint wrote: I didn't read the whole thread, but don't omni-tank for missions. To start with, over-tank based on your target. lows: 1x rep 4x active hardeners kin/therm 2/2 (gurista/serpentis) expl/kin 3/1 (angel, most rogue drones) em/therm 1/3 (sansha/blood) Don't use damage control or eanms or things like that. They don't put very much resists where you need them, making the bonuses and therefore the module a waste. Some rogue drone missions have different damage profiles. Use eve-survival to get a better idea for the specific mission, though keep in mind it might not be perfectly accurate. After you've got more experience with the missions and have a better sense of triggers and incoming damage start cutting back on your tank (shut off hardeners to see if you can still tank it) and eventually start swapping resists for damage mods. Please go back and read the whole thread. Will help to better understand the question and the situation. What you suggested was already done. however I was tanking for Kinetic/Thermal because that's what Eve-Survival guide said on this mission, but now I realized through what others have said that there is multiple versions of this mission and I tanked for the wrong damage type. I think my EM resists were only like 67% or so and bad for laser firing NPCs. I think throwing in a EM hardener or two will fix the problem.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:03:06 - [43] - Quote Try a reactive armor hardener. You get between 30-60% resists with it. That and a damage control are all I've ever needed for Assault. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
mkint 1540	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:04:45 - [44] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: It's a Marauder. If you need 5 active tank modules you're doing it all wrong. Most missions can be completed with the default shield buffer, a MJD and careful avoidance of triggers. You shouldn't need more than 2-3 (tops) active modules for an armor tank. Damage control, reactive armor hardener and Deadspace large armor repairer are all you really need. You can add a mission-specific hardener for some of the heavier missions, but again - it's probably overkill. Some of the 'advice' I'm reading lately really needs to be taken with a grain of salt - or chucked out the window entirely... It's definitely overkill. But if his tank is struggling, it usually means there are target selection issues, and piloting issues. The tank can compensate for that while he learns better target selection and better piloting. Better to be overtanked and slow than undertanked and lose the ship. Start with success, transition to efficiency. Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:12:31 - [45] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Try a reactive armor hardener. You get between 30-60% resists with it. That and a damage control are all I've ever needed for Assault. Yeah, I am going to try that too. I think mainly the low EM resist is what is the problem. I am going to look up the NPC name tonight and double check on the damage type. I think I just naturally assumed they were guristas doing Kinetic damage. But if they were hitting me at 100 km then they definitely were not using ballistics. Thanks for all the advice on the tanking and the damage part too. I will definitely re-do my rigs to get more maximized damage. The question is, will the burst Aerator and the locus coordinator have stacking penalties with the Tracking computer?
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 59840	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:15:44 - [46] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Some of the 'advice' I'm reading lately really needs to be taken with a grain of salt - or chucked out the window entirely... Umm, there's more than one way to skin a cat. In fact that's what makes this game great, there is no set specific way to play. Or fit ships for that matter. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:24:21 - [47] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Thanks for all the advice on the tanking and the damage part too. I will definitely re-do my rigs to get more maximized damage. The question is, will the burst Aerator and the locus coordinator have stacking penalties with the Tracking computer? If they are Guristas, use a T2 Damage Control, Reactive Hardener and one of the Corelum Deadspace energized membranes. Avoid the triggers and should should be able to manage aggro no problem. Insofar as the rigs, yes - the Aerator is stacking penalized - but it still gives you an +8.12% rate of fire increase. And implants aren't stacking penalized, so you can get another 10-14% DPS as well. As long as you script the tracking computers for optimal range it will not conflict with the tracking bonus on the Locus rig. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:28:08 - [48] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Umm, there's more than one way to skin a cat. In fact that's what makes this game great, there is no set specific way to play. Or fit ships for that matter. Running 5 active hardeners is just asking to be ganked. T2 Damage control and EANM are pretty much the minimum you want to run to avoid an untimely end to your Marauder. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:54:33 - [49] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Thanks for all the advice on the tanking and the damage part too. I will definitely re-do my rigs to get more maximized damage. The question is, will the burst Aerator and the locus coordinator have stacking penalties with the Tracking computer? If they are Guristas, use a T2 Damage Control, Reactive Hardener and one of the Corelum Deadspace energized membranes. Avoid the triggers and should should be able to manage aggro no problem. Insofar as the rigs, yes - the Aerator is stacking penalized - but it still gives you an +8.12% rate of fire increase. And implants aren't stacking penalized, so you can get another 10-14% DPS as well. As long as you script the tracking computers for optimal range it will not conflict with the tracking bonus on the Locus rig. I don't think they were Guristas. Gurista battleships don't hit you for 150-200+ dmg at 100km do they? Hmm, So would you recommend one Aerator or two, or one Aerator and one Locus? Will the locus rig extend my optimal range beyond 80km? I have not put in any combat related implants yet, I will probably get some to improve on dps too.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 19:01:38 - [50] - Quote mkint wrote: It's definitely overkill. But if his tank is struggling, it usually means there are target selection issues, and piloting issues. The tank can compensate for that while he learns better target selection and better piloting. Better to be overtanked and slow than undertanked and lose the ship. Start with success, transition to efficiency. edit: for the record, my preferred tank is DPS. Taking an untanked void talos into AE 4... so much fun, but a terrible idea. I'm sorry, there are no target selection issues or piloting issues. The stuff hit me hard on the way in, they were very close by. Only thing that I did was target the one NPC that was jamming me, launch my drones and try to run out of range of the jammer so I can target stuff. Like I said in the first few posts, this was an unusual mission. Normally I go with DPS, but with stuff hitting this hard and being jammed, it was hard to do anything. After I switched to a Micro Jump Drive, I was able to kill the stuff in the area easy. Now that I know I was under-tanked on EM probably I will not have problems.One extra repper might not hurt either. Plus the DPS suggestions are going to make it even faster.

Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5930	Posted - 2017.03.07 19:13:31 - [51] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: I don't think they were Guristas. Gurista battleships don't hit you for 150-200+ dmg at 100km do they? Hmm, So would you recommend one Aerator or two, or one Aerator and one Locus? Will the locus rig extend my optimal range beyond 80km? I have not put in any combat related implants yet, I will probably get some to improve on dps too. Yeah, Guristas can be brutal - since they're primarily missile-based with 100km+ range. One T2 Aerator to improve rate of fire and a T1 Locus for tracking speed. If you want the furthest optimal range run three range-scripted tracking computers. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 19:30:38 - [52] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Yeah, Guristas can be brutal - since they're primarily missile-based with 100km+ range. If this was for a Caldari agent it was Guristas, and you're primarily looking to plug a kinetic hole One T2 Aerator to improve rate of fire and a T1 Locus for tracking speed. Having the T2 rig is imperitive as you get 8% with a T2 and about 2.5% with a T1. If you want the furthest optimal range run three range-scripted tracking computers. Definitely not Guristas. I was doing missions with Viziam which is Amarr empire corp. There were no missiles flying around and the fire looked like lasers. I will tinker with the rigs tonight, I think I already have one Aerator II in there already cause I wanted to avoid stacking penalties. I just didn't realize the penalties applied together with modules.
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1611	Posted - 2017.03.07 20:47:28 - [53] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: Yeah, Guristas can be brutal - since they're primarily missile-based with 100km+ range. If this was for a Caldari agent it was Guristas, and you're primarily looking to plug a kinetic hole One T2 Aerator to improve rate of fire and a T1 Locus for tracking speed. Having the T2 rig is imperitive as you get 8% with a T2 and about 2.5% with a T1. If you want the furthest optimal range run three range-scripted tracking computers. Definitely not Guristas. I was doing missions with Viziam which is Amarr empire corp. There were no missiles flying around and the fire looked like lasers. I will tinker with the rigs tonight, I think I already have one Aerator II in there already cause I wanted to avoid stacking penalties. I just didn't realize the penalties applied together with modules. If those NPCs were called Pith they were Guristas, Sansha's Nation are called Centus or Centis, Serpentis are called Corelum or Coreli, Blood Raider are called Corpum or Corpi, angel cartel are called Gist or Gisti and Rogue Drones are called Alvus or Alvi. And Mordus are called Mordus. Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Takh Meir'noen Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 16	Posted - 2017.03.07 20:56:23 - [54] - Quote I've been using a Paladin for L4 missions since they put Marauders in. I've tried lots and lots and lots of fits, and this is the one I settled on. It's practically foolproof: 4x Tachyon 3x Tractor (if full clearing/looting, otherwise put whatever you like) 500MN Gist-A MWD (0% cap penalty) + MJD 2x Cap Recharger Corpus X-type LAR 2x EANM 1x Reactive Armor Hardener 3x Heat Sink 2x Cap Control Circuit II 5 Hobgoblins, 5 Hornets, 5 Salvage Drones MTU =========================== Even if you ** up the triggers in The Assault, this will still tank it. Once you are confident you can stop ***** up triggers, replace the Reactive Armor Hardener with a fourth Heat Sink. Between the MJD & MWD you'll have no issue being at optimal firing position. When full-clearing, after you have dealt with small ships (either blapping them with Tachs, or with drones) then kick out your salvage drones and let them go to work. Help your MTU's collecting with your tractor beams. I try to kill stuff @ 47k or closer so I can tractor it.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 21:34:59 - [55] - Quote Yeah the reason I don't use Tachyon beams is that I never trained large beam weapon specalization yet. Also I thought about both MWD and MJD and I liked the tracking computer better. Otherwise your setup is not much different than mine. I prefer damage control II because it adds a lot of passive resists without much in the way of cpu/power/cap etc.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5934	Posted - 2017.03.07 21:39:56 - [56] - Quote elitatwo wrote: If those NPCs were called Pith they were Guristas, Sansha's Nation are called Centus or Centis, Serpentis are called Corelum or Coreli, Blood Raider are called Corpum or Corpi, angel cartel are called Gist or Gisti and Rogue Drones are called Alvus or Alvi. And Mordus are called Mordus. You forgot Pithi, Pithum, Centum, Core, Corpus, Gistum and Alvum - as well as EoM. And drones are still more annoying than anything else. That Paladin fit doesn't have enough capacitor. Needs more capacitor... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tuttomenui II Aliastra Gallente Federation 506	Posted - 2017.03.08 00:31:48 - [57] - Quote This is my Kronos fit. I swap the hardeners to match the mission. [Kronos, Kronos] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Reactive Armor Hardener Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Khanid Navy Large Armor Repairer (These have gone up in value so might replace it with a core x-type) Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 100MN Afterburner II Large Micro Jump Drive Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Small Tractor Beam II Auto Targeting System II Drone Link Augmentor II Bastion Module I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I (Still haven't decided what to put here so this is a place holder) Hornet II x10 Salvage Drone I x5 Warden I x2 Void L x8000 Null L x8000 Optimal Range Script x2 Tracking Speed Script x2
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 754	Posted - 2017.03.08 04:12:56 - [58] - Quote It's been a long time since I did Assault with my Paladin. But yes you CAN be issued that mission vs. Guristas when doing Amarr agent missions, because I do. I just use my Kronos for that mission when it comes up. Lows- 3 - heatsink of your choice 2 - x-type kinetic armor hardeners 1 - x-type thermal armor hardener 1 - deadspace large armor repairer. The good news is that all of that tanky stuff is actually cheap, all things considered. With this particular mission, you don't really have to move from your landing point in either room. So if you're using Tachy's to hit things at range, you can get away with not having a prop mod. So my advice for mids is the following, but keep in mind I'm advising this strictly for this mission... Mids- 2 - tracking computer, optimal range scripted 1 - large capacitor battery 1 - sensor booster II (no script necessary as the moderate boost to both stats should be enough) The cap battery is there to give you a large cap buffer for running your repairer, plus increase your regen. Although you can probably ditch it for another tracking computer, so you can really hit far out with good damaging crystals. Lastly, as others stated, read up on the mission groups and triggers on Eve-Survival. Selectively eliminate one group at a time to avoid too much aggro. If you manage your aggro well, you should be able to tank the mission without bastion. If you do (and apparently already have) get too much aggro, the bastion should save you. Also, if you have the proper combat notifications turned on, you might notice that "lesser" battleship spawns might do more damage to you than the "bigger", higher-bounty battleships. If you're keeping track of your targets and want to whittle down incoming DPS, it pays to knock out those battleships first. At least that's been my experience in that mission. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.08 14:59:49 - [59] - Quote I went back into the mission last night and everything respawned. This time I paid attention to the damage type and the names and they are definitely guristas. Piths to be exact. I guess I missed the missiles flying around the first time because there are a lot of them. I put the active adaptive hardener on the ship and all the resists gravitated towards kinetic after a while and I was still getting heavy missile damage. I decided to go back and just fit 2 damage specific hardeners Kinetic and explosive and redo my cap because this setup did not have a sustainable cap. After all the running around to Jita and back I still didn't finish the mission, left the last room undone so probably will have to start over again tonight. 3 things I've noticed: 1. Having the Burst Aerator and the Locus coordinator did not change my DPS that much. I might be better off with a capacitor rigging. 2. Drones were getting killed fast no matter if they were light, medium or heavy, but they sped up the fight, maybe I will swap out a heat sink for a drone damage booster. 3. Without a MWD I could not catch up to some of the pith missile ships. But with them on I could not get to cap stable without the cap reactor. So cap rigging is definitely needed. Longer range beams could also help but I would have to train them. So this mission is still a bear, I may just skip the first two rooms tonight so I can finish it. The loot wasn't bad from the battleships though. They dropped some large Arbelest cruise or torpedo launchers. I would love to fly a Kronos but that would mean training up Gallente ships...
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5949	Posted - 2017.03.08 15:19:42 - [60] - Quote Except Guristas don't deal explosive damage... Mainly kinetic with some thermal. So there's no way plugging your explosive hole would've helped. Damage control, EANM, reactive harmor hardener and any kinetic membranes or hardeners would've helped. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.



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