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Armor Tanking, Am I doing it wrong?

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MoonDragn ZiTek 1	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:13:14 - [1] - Quote So I finally got into a Paladin and am trying level 4 missions. Last night I started a mission called the Assault from a level 4 agent and when I warped into the mission, I was hit hard by all the NPCs there. My Paladin is configured for standard level 4 missions and for tanking I have a damage control unit II, 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II. Plus I have the bastion module. So after barely escaping out of there with about 30% structure left, I went back to the station to put more tanking modules. I put another Energized adaptive nano Membrane and removed one of my damage boost modules to put a kinetic hardener in. Went back, and wow, still hitting me hard, in the time it takes me to get into optimal range I'm down to 10% hull and barely warped out again. This time I went back and took out more modules for more tank, now I have 1 energized adaptive, 1 damage control, and 2 hardeners, kinetic and thermal to match the NPC dmg. I pretty much have 87% resist for kinetic and thermal and over 70 on the other stuff. I even put on a micro jump drive so I can warp out of range to get some breathing room. When I went back in, I immediately jumped 100 km away, noticed a few of the ships were still hitting me. HARD. what's going on? This is not missile damage, it looks like lasers, and this stuff is hitting me for 150-200 dmg a hit. Where are my resistances? I put my Bastion module online and still take close to 150 damage a hit. What's going on? Anyone have any ideas? My armor tanking related skills are mostly at V. With the exception of Armor layering which shouldn't be related.
Exaido Fire Over Light Those Infernal Machines 104	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:16:21 - [2] - Quote Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name. These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 410	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:19:40 - [3] - Quote Are you using an armor repairer? Marauders are bonused for active tank, so that might help. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
MoonDragn ZiTek 1	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:20:29 - [4] - Quote Exaido wrote: Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name. These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy. Only for this mission (The Assault). Nothing has ever hit my paladin that hard before. Usually I turn the armor rep on and forget. The single nano membrane and damage control II usually does the trick. The NPCs in every mission so far hit me for like 20-30 dmg at the most. This is the first time I've been hit for over 150-200 dmg every shot from NPCs that don't miss.
Tam Arai Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 126	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:23:37 - [5] - Quote you are turning on your hardeners? and bastion? do you have a repper? first room can be hard with about 15 battleships hitting you if you hit the trigger early
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3159	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:24:13 - [6] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Exaido wrote: Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name. These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy. Only for this mission (The Assault). Nothing has ever hit my paladin that hard before. Usually I turn the armor rep on and forget. The single nano membrane and damage control II usually does the trick. The NPCs in every mission so far hit me for like 20-30 dmg at the most. This is the first time I've been hit for over 150-200 dmg every shot from NPCs that don't miss. Post the fit of what you used to fly and what you fly now. Then we might understand what is happening to help you out.
Amojin Entropic Synergies Research 79	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:25:22 - [7] - Quote This is only tangentially related to your topic, but I have a question, if you're just now starting L4's... How long did it take you grinding 3's to afford a Paladin?
Daerrol Comms Black Initiative Mercenaries 309	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:29:11 - [8] - Quote I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? If so the first issue is they are shooting at the Paladin's Kinetic hole. Paladin ROCKS against EM/Thermal damage of Sansha and Blood Raiders. It struggles vs Gurista and Angel Kin and Explo respectively. So you can drop a EANM II for a rat specific hardener. This should make a world of difference, even just a Tech 2. The mission against the EOM is another which hits the paladins weakness and can blast through you pretty hard. Also consider picking up a C or B type large armor repairer. The CORE variety are easy on the Capacitor and cheap cheap. It's the only bling I use on a Paly. Secondly you say it takes time to get into range? A paladin should be shooting wiht good damage up to 100KM. there's two main ways to do this: 1. Fit Tech 1 Tachyon Beam lasers, go Bastion. Bring MultiFrequency, and Standard crystals. Standard should hit out to edge of Lock Range. If not, bring Infrared or a lighter crystal while you train up Sharp Shooting. 2. Fit T2 Mega Beams with Scorch and TRacking Computers. Should hit out to 100KM with good skills. If not, see point #1.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3159	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:33:09 - [9] - Quote INB4 polarized fit just in case...
MoonDragn ZiTek 1	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:41:09 - [10] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Post the fit of what you used to fly and what you fly now. Then we might understand what is happening to help you out. My normal fit: high 4 Mega Pulse Laser IIs Scorch 1 auto target 1 heavy nosferatus II 1 bastion module mid 500 nm microwarp drive 2 x Tracking computer II 1 Cap Recharger II low 3 x Imperial Navy Heatsinks 1 Energized Adapative Nano Membrane II 1 Damage Control II 1 Capacitor power relay 1 Core C type armor repairer Rig 2 x large energy collision accelerators After taking damage, I removed the microwarp drive to put in micro jump drive, removed 1 navy heatsink and capactor power relay to put in 2 armor hardeners Thermal and Kinetic.

Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5906	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:41:48 - [11] - Quote Daerrol wrote: I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? I'm wondering this as well. A reactive armor hardener will probably serve you better than the damage control. And has been mentioned, if you're not utilizing a large armor repairer this is probably why you're running into issues (Deadspace versions are currently very reasonable). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5906	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:47:14 - [12] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: 500 nm microwarp drive 2 x Tracking computer II 1 Cap Recharger II 3 x Imperial Navy Heatsinks 1 Energized Adapative Nano Membrane II 1 Damage Control II 1 Capacitor power relay 1 Core C type armor repairer 2 x large energy collision accelerators Get a Faction MWD (this sill save you 7-10% capacitor). A Domination one is under 30m ISK. Personally, I'd drop the T2 Cap Recharger and go with a T2 Heavy Capacitor Battery instead (or a T2 Sensor Booster). Drop the T2 Capacitor Power Relay as well and swap it out for a Reactive Armor Hardener (you don't need to be cap stable in a Marauder). Insofar as the rigs go - ditch both of them (you're getting almost nothing from them with stacking penalties). Switch to a T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator and T1 Large Energy Locus Coordinator instead (this will give you a ~10% bump to your rate of fire and +15% to your tracking, and it will only cost you 20m ISK). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 1	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:49:46 - [13] - Quote Daerrol wrote: I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? If so the first issue is they are shooting at the Paladin's Kinetic hole. Paladin ROCKS against EM/Thermal damage of Sansha and Blood Raiders. It struggles vs Gurista and Angel Kin and Explo respectively. So you can drop a EANM II for a rat specific hardener. This should make a world of difference, even just a Tech 2. The mission against the EOM is another which hits the paladins weakness and can blast through you pretty hard. Also consider picking up a C or B type large armor repairer. The CORE variety are easy on the Capacitor and cheap cheap. It's the only bling I use on a Paly. Secondly you say it takes time to get into range? A paladin should be shooting wiht good damage up to 100KM. there's two main ways to do this: 1. Fit Tech 1 Tachyon Beam lasers, go Bastion. Bring MultiFrequency, and Standard crystals. Standard should hit out to edge of Lock Range. If not, bring Infrared or a lighter crystal while you train up Sharp Shooting. 2. Fit T2 Mega Beams with Scorch and TRacking Computers. Should hit out to 100KM with good skills. If not, see point #1. EDIT What is your Marauders skill at? You should get it to 4 ASAP for more armor repair amount! This is the Assault with the laser NPCs. The names escape me right now. I have no kinetic hole, my kinetic resistance is at 87% I do have a C type repper The gate drops you at 10km range to the rats, I was trying to get farther away to shoot at the frigates that were jamming me. My maurader skill is at I but should be at II or III by tonight. I'm using scorch and conflag crystals not having problems hitting them, just not at 100km. I start doing dmg at around 80km My sharp shooting skill is at V as are all of my laser related skills except for advanced weapons upgrades V. PS> I'm not having problems hitting them, they are just doing more damage than usual, way more damage. I thought the paly is supposed to have no problems tanking level 4 mission NPCs?
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5906	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:51:42 - [14] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: This is the Assault with the laser NPCs. The names escape me right now. I have no kinetic hole, my kinetic resistance is at 87% I do have a C type repper The gate drops you at 10km range to the rats, I was trying to get farther away to shoot at the frigates that were jamming me. My maurader skill is at I but should be at II or III by tonight. I'm using scorch and conflag crystals not having problems hitting them, just not at 100km. I start doing dmg at around 80km My sharp shooting skill is at V as are all of my laser related skills except for advanced weapons upgrades V. You should be using drones for anything under 20km. And if Marauders is only @ I, that's definitely part of the problem (you want III-IV minimum and ideally V). You know you can skip the first gate in Assault, right? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 1	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:54:39 - [15] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: You should be using drones for anything under 20km. And if Marauders is only @ I, that's definitely part of the problem (you want III-IV minimum and ideally V). You know you can skip the first gate in Assault, right? I am using drones for anything under 20km, I was trying to move out of jamming range so I can target them. The marauder skill should have only affect the repper. Should not affect my damage resist. These NPCs are hitting sometimes for 250 dmg against 87% resist... that seems kind of off to me. Yes I know you can skip the first gate, but I like to try to kill everything.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5906	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:57:04 - [16] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Yes I know you can skip the first gate, but I like to try to kill everything. Invest in a Large Micro Jump Drive to pull range. Unless you dual-web anything orbiting you'll never hit it with large guns (even large pulse lasers). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 1	Posted - 2017.03.07 15:57:36 - [17] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Get a Faction MWD (this sill save you 7-10% capacitor). A Domination one is under 30m ISK. Personally, I'd drop the T2 Cap Recharger and go with a T2 Heavy Capacitor Battery instead (or a T2 Sensor Booster). Drop the T2 Capacitor Power Relay as well and swap it out for a Reactive Armor Hardener (you don't need to be cap stable in a Marauder). Insofar as the rigs go - ditch both of them (you're getting almost nothing from them with stacking penalties). Switch to a T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator and T1 Large Energy Locus Coordinator instead (this will give you a ~10% bump to your rate of fire and +15% to your tracking, and it will only cost you 20m ISK). Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5906	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:04:00 - [18] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: [Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones. Yes, they are stacking penalized - which is why you want a single T2 version. Rate of fire will trump damage and is the cheaper option. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 434	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:04:07 - [19] - Quote I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank. A case for more AoE in EvE
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5906	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:06:09 - [20] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank. Marauder I. Explains a lot. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

MoonDragn ZiTek 8	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:12:06 - [21] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank. My rep is fine when there are only a few hitting me, but they should not be hitting me for 150-200+ a hit, I saw a video on the same mission and the guy was getting hit for 25-30 dmg with less tank than I've got.
MoonDragn ZiTek 8	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:16:21 - [22] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: [Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones. Yes, they are stacking penalized - which is why you want a single T2 version. Rate of fire will trump damage and is the cheaper option. And no, you are mistaken if you think having them is increasing your DPS by 400... Maybe not, but they are tech II rigs, and the fittings tab shows 650ish dps without them and 1000+ dps with.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5912	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:18:48 - [23] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: My rep is fine when there are only a few hitting me, but they should not be hitting me for 150-200+ a hit, I saw a video on the same mission and the guy was getting hit for 25-30 dmg with less tank than I've got. I'm going to theorize that perhaps some of your core skills maybe aren't where they need to be. I can get well over 1200 DPS utilizing Conflag on my Paladin fit, and I rarely need to utilize more than a single Deadspace larger armor repairer. So the short answer to your question is: Yes, you are doing it wrong. MoonDragn wrote: Maybe not, but they are tech II rigs, and the fittings tab shows 650ish dps without them and 1000+ dps with Not a chance in hll, sorry. From Pyfa, V skills, no implants and T2 Mega Pulse Lasers with Conflag L: Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks: 1083 DPS GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 2x T1 Large Energy Collision Accelerator: 1126 DPS (+43 DPS or +3.9%) GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 1x T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator: 1171 DPS (+88 DPS or +8.1%) I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 9	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:27:04 - [24] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: I'm going to theorize that perhaps some of your core skills maybe aren't where they need to be. I can get well over 1200 DPS utilizing Conflag on my Paladin fit, and I rarely need to utilize more than a single Deadspace larger armor repairer. So the short answer to your question is: Yes, you are doing it wrong. But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me? Every other level 4 mission I've been in they barely hit me for 50 dmg if ever at the most. Most of the time I don't even need to turn on t he repper. I don't know which core skill I'm missing... Here are my laser weapon skills: Gunnery V Large Energy Turret V Large Pulse Laser Specialization IV Motion Prediction V Rapid Firing V Sharpshooter V Surgical Strike V Trajectory Analysis V Advanced Weapon Upgrades V Arthur Aihaken wrote: Not a chance in hll, sorry. From Pyfa, V skills, no implants and T2 Mega Pulse Lasers with Conflag L: Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks: 1083 DPS GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 2x T1 Large Energy Collision Accelerator: 1126 DPS (+43 DPS or +3.9%) GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 1x T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator: 1171 DPS (+88 DPS or +8.1%) Hmm, I'll post my dps screenshot tonight if I can. I might have to pull out the collision accelerators to put in the burst aerator like you said. Also I think I might only have 1 accelerator, the other one is the aerator.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5920	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:29:57 - [25] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me? Because the Assault mission is very hard hitting, and if you manage to activate all the triggers you can end up with close to 3000 incoming DPS. eve-survival.org is your friend - you may want to check out some of the missions beforehand. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 9	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:32:34 - [26] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me? Because the Assault mission is very hard hitting, and if you hit all the triggers you can end up with close to 3000 incoming DPS. eve-survival.org is your friend - you may want to check out some of the missions beforehand. Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference. BTW, I only just came back to EVE again a few weeks ago. Been playing off and on for 13 years now.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5921	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:36:52 - [27] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference. Well, there are a few others... Damsel, the 'Enemy' series, Pirate Invasion, Gone Beserk... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 9	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:39:48 - [28] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference. Well, there are a few others... Damsel, the 'Enemy' series, Pirate Invasion, Gone Beserk... thanks I'll keep that in mind. In the mean time, I think I'll carry an extra repper to keep up with the damage until my maurader skill gets to IV. I could just skip everything and go to the final gate, but what would be the fun in that? I'm going back in tonight to clear everything out. Amojin wrote: This is only tangentially related to your topic, but I have a question, if you're just now starting L4's... How long did it take you grinding 3's to afford a Paladin? Sorry I kind of took the shortcut. They were having a 3 Plex sale a few weeks ago and I took advantage of it to buy the package and sold the plex to get out of my APOC to fly the Paladin. I've had the APOC since after the first 6 months of Eve and these missions didn't seem that bad back in my APOC when I did them years ago.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5923	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:49:49 - [29] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: thanks I'll keep that in mind. In the mean time, I think I'll carry an extra repper to keep up with the damage until my maurader skill gets to IV. I could just skip everything and go to the final gate, but what would be the fun in that? I'm going back in tonight to clear everything out. Trust me, after the 1001st time... skipping the gate and blitzing Assault is the only way to do it... MoonDragn wrote: Sorry I kind of took the shortcut. They were having a 3 Plex sale a few weeks ago and I took advantage of it to buy the package and sold the plex to get out of my APOC to fly the Paladin. I've had the APOC since after the first 6 months of Eve and these missions didn't seem that bad back in my APOC when I did them years ago. Moving up to a Paladin was definitely the right choice (regardless of how you got there). Definitely focus on getting to Marauder V and you will notice a night-and-day difference in performance. There's a reason why most players blitz or skip the most gruelling missions, and that is because you can fit more gank and less tank. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 9	Posted - 2017.03.07 16:58:07 - [30] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Moving up to a Paladin was definitely the right choice (regardless of how you got there). Definitely focus on getting to Marauder V and you will notice a night-and-day difference in performance. There's a reason why most players blitz or skip the most gruelling missions, and that is because you can fit more gank and less tank. hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot. Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it.

Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5924	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:00:01 - [31] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot. Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it. The bounties are decent; the loot and salvage sucks. I think most of the bounties for NPC battleships are in the 1-1.2m ISK range. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 9	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:02:56 - [32] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot. Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it. The bounties are decent; the loot and salvage sucks. I think most of the bounties for NPC battleships are in the 1-1.2m ISK range. Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first?
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5926	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:11:02 - [33] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first? Yes, bounties are totalled up and paid out every 20 minutes. If you click on the NPC in the overview it shows how much the individual bounty payout is. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:18:37 - [34] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Really? I was getting a few 10 mil+ isk bounty entries in my journal. Maybe it gets totaled up first? Yes, bounties are totalled up and paid out every 20 minutes. If you click on the NPC in the overview it shows how much the individual bounty payout is. Ahh darn I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well. I'm just doing these missions for combat practice. Don't really need the extra isk now that I've sold those plexes. I know you probably did these missions 1000+ times but I grinded most of my missions through the other types, distribution, mining etc (Back then there was no guide). It is refreshing to be just doing combat instead of all the other boring Eve stuff.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 15285	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:21:55 - [35] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=248 Best section to ask such questions, GD can be....unreliable when it comes to PVE content discussions.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:22:02 - [36] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: [Ahh darn I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well. I'm just doing these missions for combat practice. Don't really need the extra isk now that I've sold those plexes. I know you probably did these missions 1000+ times but I grinded most of my missions through the other types, distribution, mining etc (Back then there was no guide). It is refreshing to be just doing combat instead of all the other boring Eve stuff. Trust me, if the bounties were 10m ISK per NPC battleship I'd never blitz another mission... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
ISD Chanisa Nemes ISD Community Communications Liaisons 86	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:33:33 - [37] - Quote Thread has been moved to Ships & Modules. ISD Chanisa Nemes Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 59837	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:45:08 - [38] - Quote You might wanna check the Market - show all skills - to see if you have all available skills trained that will help boost ship stats. I know within the past year or so CCP has added some new Resistance Compensation skills for Armor and Shield. Since somebody mentioned it, if needed here's a list of Core Fitting Skills. Man I must be getting slow in my old age. I was going to suggest other sub-forums more suited for this topic than General Discussion but I see other players have already done so, plus I see ISD Chanisa Nemes already moved this thread while I was writing this reply.. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
mkint 1539	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:47:42 - [39] - Quote I didn't read the whole thread, but don't omni-tank for missions. To start with, over-tank based on your target. lows: 1x rep 4x active hardeners kin/therm 2/2 (gurista/serpentis) expl/kin 3/1 (angel, most rogue drones) em/therm 1/3 (sansha/blood) Don't use damage control or eanms or things like that. They don't put very much resists where you need them, making the bonuses and therefore the module a waste. Some rogue drone missions have different damage profiles. Use eve-survival to get a better idea for the specific mission, though keep in mind it might not be perfectly accurate. After you've got more experience with the missions and have a better sense of triggers and incoming damage start cutting back on your tank (shut off hardeners to see if you can still tank it) and eventually start swapping resists for damage mods. Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:52:36 - [40] - Quote It's a Marauder. If you need 5 active tank modules you're doing it all wrong. Most missions can be completed with the default shield buffer, a MJD and careful avoidance of triggers. You shouldn't need more than 2-3 (tops) active modules for an armor tank. Damage control, reactive armor hardener and Deadspace large armor repairer are all you really need. You can add a mission-specific hardener for some of the heavier missions, but again - it's probably overkill. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:53:41 - [41] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: You might wanna check the Market - show all skills - to see if you have all available skills trained that will help boost ship stats. I know within the past year or so CCP has added some new Resistance Compensation skills for Armor and Shield. Since somebody mentioned it, if needed here's a list of Core Fitting Skills. Man I must be getting slow in my old age. I was going to suggest other sub-forums more suited for this topic than General Discussion but I see other players have already done so, plus I see ISD Chanisa Nemes already moved this thread while I was writing this reply.. DMC I have all the armor resistance compensation skills at V. I was actually reading up more on the Assault mission, and I think the problem is the guide says the damage type is Kinetic/Thermal, but they were firing lasers at me so maybe it is EM/Thermal. In which case no wonder I was getting murdered.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 17:56:40 - [42] - Quote mkint wrote: I didn't read the whole thread, but don't omni-tank for missions. To start with, over-tank based on your target. lows: 1x rep 4x active hardeners kin/therm 2/2 (gurista/serpentis) expl/kin 3/1 (angel, most rogue drones) em/therm 1/3 (sansha/blood) Don't use damage control or eanms or things like that. They don't put very much resists where you need them, making the bonuses and therefore the module a waste. Some rogue drone missions have different damage profiles. Use eve-survival to get a better idea for the specific mission, though keep in mind it might not be perfectly accurate. After you've got more experience with the missions and have a better sense of triggers and incoming damage start cutting back on your tank (shut off hardeners to see if you can still tank it) and eventually start swapping resists for damage mods. Please go back and read the whole thread. Will help to better understand the question and the situation. What you suggested was already done. however I was tanking for Kinetic/Thermal because that's what Eve-Survival guide said on this mission, but now I realized through what others have said that there is multiple versions of this mission and I tanked for the wrong damage type. I think my EM resists were only like 67% or so and bad for laser firing NPCs. I think throwing in a EM hardener or two will fix the problem.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:03:06 - [43] - Quote Try a reactive armor hardener. You get between 30-60% resists with it. That and a damage control are all I've ever needed for Assault. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
mkint 1540	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:04:45 - [44] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: It's a Marauder. If you need 5 active tank modules you're doing it all wrong. Most missions can be completed with the default shield buffer, a MJD and careful avoidance of triggers. You shouldn't need more than 2-3 (tops) active modules for an armor tank. Damage control, reactive armor hardener and Deadspace large armor repairer are all you really need. You can add a mission-specific hardener for some of the heavier missions, but again - it's probably overkill. Some of the 'advice' I'm reading lately really needs to be taken with a grain of salt - or chucked out the window entirely... It's definitely overkill. But if his tank is struggling, it usually means there are target selection issues, and piloting issues. The tank can compensate for that while he learns better target selection and better piloting. Better to be overtanked and slow than undertanked and lose the ship. Start with success, transition to efficiency. Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:12:31 - [45] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Try a reactive armor hardener. You get between 30-60% resists with it. That and a damage control are all I've ever needed for Assault. Yeah, I am going to try that too. I think mainly the low EM resist is what is the problem. I am going to look up the NPC name tonight and double check on the damage type. I think I just naturally assumed they were guristas doing Kinetic damage. But if they were hitting me at 100 km then they definitely were not using ballistics. Thanks for all the advice on the tanking and the damage part too. I will definitely re-do my rigs to get more maximized damage. The question is, will the burst Aerator and the locus coordinator have stacking penalties with the Tracking computer?
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 59840	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:15:44 - [46] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Some of the 'advice' I'm reading lately really needs to be taken with a grain of salt - or chucked out the window entirely... Umm, there's more than one way to skin a cat. In fact that's what makes this game great, there is no set specific way to play. Or fit ships for that matter. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:24:21 - [47] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Thanks for all the advice on the tanking and the damage part too. I will definitely re-do my rigs to get more maximized damage. The question is, will the burst Aerator and the locus coordinator have stacking penalties with the Tracking computer? If they are Guristas, use a T2 Damage Control, Reactive Hardener and one of the Corelum Deadspace energized membranes. Avoid the triggers and should should be able to manage aggro no problem. Insofar as the rigs, yes - the Aerator is stacking penalized - but it still gives you an +8.12% rate of fire increase. And implants aren't stacking penalized, so you can get another 10-14% DPS as well. As long as you script the tracking computers for optimal range it will not conflict with the tracking bonus on the Locus rig. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5927	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:28:08 - [48] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: Umm, there's more than one way to skin a cat. In fact that's what makes this game great, there is no set specific way to play. Or fit ships for that matter. Running 5 active hardeners is just asking to be ganked. T2 Damage control and EANM are pretty much the minimum you want to run to avoid an untimely end to your Marauder. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 18:54:33 - [49] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Thanks for all the advice on the tanking and the damage part too. I will definitely re-do my rigs to get more maximized damage. The question is, will the burst Aerator and the locus coordinator have stacking penalties with the Tracking computer? If they are Guristas, use a T2 Damage Control, Reactive Hardener and one of the Corelum Deadspace energized membranes. Avoid the triggers and should should be able to manage aggro no problem. Insofar as the rigs, yes - the Aerator is stacking penalized - but it still gives you an +8.12% rate of fire increase. And implants aren't stacking penalized, so you can get another 10-14% DPS as well. As long as you script the tracking computers for optimal range it will not conflict with the tracking bonus on the Locus rig. I don't think they were Guristas. Gurista battleships don't hit you for 150-200+ dmg at 100km do they? Hmm, So would you recommend one Aerator or two, or one Aerator and one Locus? Will the locus rig extend my optimal range beyond 80km? I have not put in any combat related implants yet, I will probably get some to improve on dps too.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 19:01:38 - [50] - Quote mkint wrote: It's definitely overkill. But if his tank is struggling, it usually means there are target selection issues, and piloting issues. The tank can compensate for that while he learns better target selection and better piloting. Better to be overtanked and slow than undertanked and lose the ship. Start with success, transition to efficiency. edit: for the record, my preferred tank is DPS. Taking an untanked void talos into AE 4... so much fun, but a terrible idea. I'm sorry, there are no target selection issues or piloting issues. The stuff hit me hard on the way in, they were very close by. Only thing that I did was target the one NPC that was jamming me, launch my drones and try to run out of range of the jammer so I can target stuff. Like I said in the first few posts, this was an unusual mission. Normally I go with DPS, but with stuff hitting this hard and being jammed, it was hard to do anything. After I switched to a Micro Jump Drive, I was able to kill the stuff in the area easy. Now that I know I was under-tanked on EM probably I will not have problems.One extra repper might not hurt either. Plus the DPS suggestions are going to make it even faster.

Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5930	Posted - 2017.03.07 19:13:31 - [51] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: I don't think they were Guristas. Gurista battleships don't hit you for 150-200+ dmg at 100km do they? Hmm, So would you recommend one Aerator or two, or one Aerator and one Locus? Will the locus rig extend my optimal range beyond 80km? I have not put in any combat related implants yet, I will probably get some to improve on dps too. Yeah, Guristas can be brutal - since they're primarily missile-based with 100km+ range. One T2 Aerator to improve rate of fire and a T1 Locus for tracking speed. If you want the furthest optimal range run three range-scripted tracking computers. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 19:30:38 - [52] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Yeah, Guristas can be brutal - since they're primarily missile-based with 100km+ range. If this was for a Caldari agent it was Guristas, and you're primarily looking to plug a kinetic hole One T2 Aerator to improve rate of fire and a T1 Locus for tracking speed. Having the T2 rig is imperitive as you get 8% with a T2 and about 2.5% with a T1. If you want the furthest optimal range run three range-scripted tracking computers. Definitely not Guristas. I was doing missions with Viziam which is Amarr empire corp. There were no missiles flying around and the fire looked like lasers. I will tinker with the rigs tonight, I think I already have one Aerator II in there already cause I wanted to avoid stacking penalties. I just didn't realize the penalties applied together with modules.
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1611	Posted - 2017.03.07 20:47:28 - [53] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: Yeah, Guristas can be brutal - since they're primarily missile-based with 100km+ range. If this was for a Caldari agent it was Guristas, and you're primarily looking to plug a kinetic hole One T2 Aerator to improve rate of fire and a T1 Locus for tracking speed. Having the T2 rig is imperitive as you get 8% with a T2 and about 2.5% with a T1. If you want the furthest optimal range run three range-scripted tracking computers. Definitely not Guristas. I was doing missions with Viziam which is Amarr empire corp. There were no missiles flying around and the fire looked like lasers. I will tinker with the rigs tonight, I think I already have one Aerator II in there already cause I wanted to avoid stacking penalties. I just didn't realize the penalties applied together with modules. If those NPCs were called Pith they were Guristas, Sansha's Nation are called Centus or Centis, Serpentis are called Corelum or Coreli, Blood Raider are called Corpum or Corpi, angel cartel are called Gist or Gisti and Rogue Drones are called Alvus or Alvi. And Mordus are called Mordus. Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Takh Meir'noen Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 16	Posted - 2017.03.07 20:56:23 - [54] - Quote I've been using a Paladin for L4 missions since they put Marauders in. I've tried lots and lots and lots of fits, and this is the one I settled on. It's practically foolproof: 4x Tachyon 3x Tractor (if full clearing/looting, otherwise put whatever you like) 500MN Gist-A MWD (0% cap penalty) + MJD 2x Cap Recharger Corpus X-type LAR 2x EANM 1x Reactive Armor Hardener 3x Heat Sink 2x Cap Control Circuit II 5 Hobgoblins, 5 Hornets, 5 Salvage Drones MTU =========================== Even if you ** up the triggers in The Assault, this will still tank it. Once you are confident you can stop ***** up triggers, replace the Reactive Armor Hardener with a fourth Heat Sink. Between the MJD & MWD you'll have no issue being at optimal firing position. When full-clearing, after you have dealt with small ships (either blapping them with Tachs, or with drones) then kick out your salvage drones and let them go to work. Help your MTU's collecting with your tractor beams. I try to kill stuff @ 47k or closer so I can tractor it.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.07 21:34:59 - [55] - Quote Yeah the reason I don't use Tachyon beams is that I never trained large beam weapon specalization yet. Also I thought about both MWD and MJD and I liked the tracking computer better. Otherwise your setup is not much different than mine. I prefer damage control II because it adds a lot of passive resists without much in the way of cpu/power/cap etc.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5934	Posted - 2017.03.07 21:39:56 - [56] - Quote elitatwo wrote: If those NPCs were called Pith they were Guristas, Sansha's Nation are called Centus or Centis, Serpentis are called Corelum or Coreli, Blood Raider are called Corpum or Corpi, angel cartel are called Gist or Gisti and Rogue Drones are called Alvus or Alvi. And Mordus are called Mordus. You forgot Pithi, Pithum, Centum, Core, Corpus, Gistum and Alvum - as well as EoM. And drones are still more annoying than anything else. That Paladin fit doesn't have enough capacitor. Needs more capacitor... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tuttomenui II Aliastra Gallente Federation 506	Posted - 2017.03.08 00:31:48 - [57] - Quote This is my Kronos fit. I swap the hardeners to match the mission. [Kronos, Kronos] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Reactive Armor Hardener Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Khanid Navy Large Armor Repairer (These have gone up in value so might replace it with a core x-type) Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 100MN Afterburner II Large Micro Jump Drive Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L Small Tractor Beam II Auto Targeting System II Drone Link Augmentor II Bastion Module I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I (Still haven't decided what to put here so this is a place holder) Hornet II x10 Salvage Drone I x5 Warden I x2 Void L x8000 Null L x8000 Optimal Range Script x2 Tracking Speed Script x2
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 754	Posted - 2017.03.08 04:12:56 - [58] - Quote It's been a long time since I did Assault with my Paladin. But yes you CAN be issued that mission vs. Guristas when doing Amarr agent missions, because I do. I just use my Kronos for that mission when it comes up. Lows- 3 - heatsink of your choice 2 - x-type kinetic armor hardeners 1 - x-type thermal armor hardener 1 - deadspace large armor repairer. The good news is that all of that tanky stuff is actually cheap, all things considered. With this particular mission, you don't really have to move from your landing point in either room. So if you're using Tachy's to hit things at range, you can get away with not having a prop mod. So my advice for mids is the following, but keep in mind I'm advising this strictly for this mission... Mids- 2 - tracking computer, optimal range scripted 1 - large capacitor battery 1 - sensor booster II (no script necessary as the moderate boost to both stats should be enough) The cap battery is there to give you a large cap buffer for running your repairer, plus increase your regen. Although you can probably ditch it for another tracking computer, so you can really hit far out with good damaging crystals. Lastly, as others stated, read up on the mission groups and triggers on Eve-Survival. Selectively eliminate one group at a time to avoid too much aggro. If you manage your aggro well, you should be able to tank the mission without bastion. If you do (and apparently already have) get too much aggro, the bastion should save you. Also, if you have the proper combat notifications turned on, you might notice that "lesser" battleship spawns might do more damage to you than the "bigger", higher-bounty battleships. If you're keeping track of your targets and want to whittle down incoming DPS, it pays to knock out those battleships first. At least that's been my experience in that mission. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.08 14:59:49 - [59] - Quote I went back into the mission last night and everything respawned. This time I paid attention to the damage type and the names and they are definitely guristas. Piths to be exact. I guess I missed the missiles flying around the first time because there are a lot of them. I put the active adaptive hardener on the ship and all the resists gravitated towards kinetic after a while and I was still getting heavy missile damage. I decided to go back and just fit 2 damage specific hardeners Kinetic and explosive and redo my cap because this setup did not have a sustainable cap. After all the running around to Jita and back I still didn't finish the mission, left the last room undone so probably will have to start over again tonight. 3 things I've noticed: 1. Having the Burst Aerator and the Locus coordinator did not change my DPS that much. I might be better off with a capacitor rigging. 2. Drones were getting killed fast no matter if they were light, medium or heavy, but they sped up the fight, maybe I will swap out a heat sink for a drone damage booster. 3. Without a MWD I could not catch up to some of the pith missile ships. But with them on I could not get to cap stable without the cap reactor. So cap rigging is definitely needed. Longer range beams could also help but I would have to train them. So this mission is still a bear, I may just skip the first two rooms tonight so I can finish it. The loot wasn't bad from the battleships though. They dropped some large Arbelest cruise or torpedo launchers. I would love to fly a Kronos but that would mean training up Gallente ships...
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5949	Posted - 2017.03.08 15:19:42 - [60] - Quote Except Guristas don't deal explosive damage... Mainly kinetic with some thermal. So there's no way plugging your explosive hole would've helped. Damage control, EANM, reactive harmor hardener and any kinetic membranes or hardeners would've helped. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Takh Meir'noen Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 17	Posted - 2017.03.08 15:46:28 - [61] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Yeah the reason I don't use Tachyon beams is that I never trained large beam weapon specalization yet. Also I thought about both MWD and MJD and I liked the tracking computer better. Otherwise your setup is not much different than mine. I prefer damage control II because it adds a lot of passive resists without much in the way of cpu/power/cap etc. As I mentioned earlier, the reactive armor is not going to help when you kill stuff so fast. But if the fight drags on I can see where it would come in handy. If you prefer Mega Pulse just swap them out. The lower cap use means you can run the MWD for awhile to close range if you need to. I don't change anything else. A DCII is 15% resists (no stack penalty). An EANM is 25% resists but has a penalty. 2x EANM > EANM+DC 2xEANM+RAH > 2xEANM+DC, unless you're taking all four damage types. But if you're taking 1 type it's twice as good, if 2 types it's a little better. DCs are great for boosting your total EHP in PVP. In PVE you are looking for sustained tanking ability more than EHP total. That's why there's no plates or extenders on active PVE tank mission runners. As far as a tracking computer, or target painter or web, if you can't hit it with Mega Pulse + Conflagration + Bastion, then the frigate/destoryer is too close, and you should be using your drones on it. You can hit cruisers reliably with Mega Pulse + Conflag + Bastion. If there's a cloud of small ships around you that you can't hit, MWD in a line to lower their transversal, or just MJD and pop them as they come at you, then MJD back. I only listed the RAH in the fit because it sounds like you have a good chance of ***** up the trigger. If you're confident you won't ** up the trigger, then just 2xEANM is fine. Oh, and my fit is faction everything. A-type MWD, navy cap rechargers, X-type LAR, navy EANMs, navy heat sinks. You're in billion-isk marauder now--don't disgrace that golden hull by flying it like a poor. :)
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.08 15:48:37 - [62] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Except Guristas don't deal explosive damage... Mainly kinetic with some thermal. So there's no way plugging your explosive hole would've helped. Damage control, EANM, reactive harmor hardener and any kinetic membranes or hardeners would've helped. Insofar as the Aerator is concerned, it's +8% DPS. Entirely up to you whether or not having cap stability is worth the tradeoff. Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php I started out with Damage Control, EANM and the reactive hardener like you said. It helped, but it did not reduce all the damage. I was taking 100+ damage from missiles. After the explosive hardeners were installed, those damages were reduced but not completely removed. They may be using all different missile types. If the loot reflects what they are firing at me, they dropped cruise missiles of all different types. I had also tested out the tanking with the thermal hardeners, and they are definitely doing thermal damage as well. However the Reactive Armor gravitates to Kinetic almost exclusively because that is the highest damage type.
Takh Meir'noen Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 17	Posted - 2017.03.08 15:56:13 - [63] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: Except Guristas don't deal explosive damage... Mainly kinetic with some thermal. So there's no way plugging your explosive hole would've helped. Damage control, EANM, reactive harmor hardener and any kinetic membranes or hardeners would've helped. Insofar as the Aerator is concerned, it's +8% DPS. Entirely up to you whether or not having cap stability is worth the tradeoff. Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php I started out with Damage Control, EANM and the reactive hardener like you said. It helped, but it did not reduce all the damage. I was taking 100+ damage from missiles. After the explosive hardeners were installed, those damages were reduced but not completely removed. They may be using all different missile types. The Guristas in The Assault will slam you with scourge missile after scourge missile. If you put on a Reactive Armor Hardener it will slam over to 60% KN resist because that's pretty much all you're taking. 2xEANM + 1xRAH. If you can't tank the pocket with an X-Type LAR in Bastion with those resist mods, you need to stop shooting the trigger in group 2 first. You can kill group 1 and 3 without aggroing Group 2. (Group 1 is closest, Group 3 is farthest. Both groups have elite frigs in them.) Just target the close elite frigs and shoot them. Now kill everything that aggros. Now shoot the far away frigs and kill everything that aggros. Now kill the cruisers in group 2. All you have left is battleships now. Look at how they are flying; one will usually be flying a little different than the rest--that's probably the trigger. Shoot a different one. If you pick wrong, the first shot spawns reinforcements. As long as you killed group 1 & 3 already, you should be fine, especially with the above tank. Note that if you just kill group 3 the mission is over.
Takh Meir'noen Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 17	Posted - 2017.03.08 16:42:53 - [64] - Quote Takh Meir'noen wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Yeah the reason I don't use Tachyon beams is that I never trained large beam weapon specalization yet. Also I thought about both MWD and MJD and I liked the tracking computer better. Otherwise your setup is not much different than mine. I prefer damage control II because it adds a lot of passive resists without much in the way of cpu/power/cap etc. As I mentioned earlier, the reactive armor is not going to help when you kill stuff so fast. But if the fight drags on I can see where it would come in handy. If you prefer Mega Pulse just swap them out. The lower cap use means you can run the MWD for awhile to close range if you need to. I don't change anything else. A DCII is 15% resists (no stack penalty). An EANM is 25% resists but has a penalty. 2x EANM > EANM+DC 2xEANM+RAH > 2xEANM+DC, unless you're taking all four damage types. But if you're taking 1 type it's twice as good, if 2 types it's a little better. DCs are great for boosting your total EHP in PVP. In PVE you are looking for sustained tanking ability more than EHP total. That's why there's no plates or extenders on active PVE tank mission runners. As far as a tracking computer, or target painter or web, if you can't hit it with Mega Pulse + Multifrequency + Bastion, then the frigate/destoryer is too close, and you should be using your drones on it. You can hit cruisers reliably with Mega Pulse + Bastion. If there's a cloud of small ships around you that you can't hit, MWD in a line to lower their transversal, or just MJD and pop them as they come at you, then MJD back. I only listed the RAH in the fit because it sounds like you have a good chance of ***** up the trigger. If you're confident you won't ** up the trigger, then just 2xEANM is fine. Oh, and my fit is faction everything. X-type MWD, navy cap rechargers, X-type LAR, navy EANMs, navy heat sinks. You're in billion-isk marauder now--don't disgrace that golden hull by flying it like a poor. :)
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1617	Posted - 2017.03.08 17:11:14 - [65] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: elitatwo wrote: If those NPCs were called Pith they were Guristas, Sansha's Nation are called Centus or Centis, Serpentis are called Corelum or Coreli, Blood Raider are called Corpum or Corpi, angel cartel are called Gist or Gisti and Rogue Drones are called Alvus or Alvi. And Mordus are called Mordus. You forgot Pithi, Pithum, Centum, Core, Corpus, Gistum and Alvum - as well as EoM. And drones are still more annoying than anything else. That Paladin fit doesn't have enough capacitor. Needs more capacitor... Well, the point was those NPCs all have similar names so you can differentiate between them. And as far as I know, there is only one level 4 mission with EoM which is "Gone Beserk". Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1617	Posted - 2017.03.08 17:14:39 - [66] - Quote Takh Meir'noen wrote: ...Oh, and my fit is faction everything. X-type MWD, navy cap rechargers, X-type LAR, navy EANMs, navy heat sinks. You're in billion-isk marauder now--don't disgrace that golden hull by flying it like a poor. :) It's deadspace, not faction. The modules with the blue icon are deadspace and the dark-green ones are faction. And those x-type modules are not that expensive anymore. They should be even cheaper for you now since they can drop all over Catch all day long. Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5949	Posted - 2017.03.08 17:26:40 - [67] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Assault4gu Guristas don't do EM or explosive damage. Maybe you're thinking of Angels... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.08 18:20:15 - [68] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Assault4gu Guristas don't do EM or explosive damage. Maybe you're thinking of Angels... If that is true, then the variance I am seeing is probably from me using the Microwarp drive towards the guristas. Maybe the extra speed and sig is increasing the damage.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 755	Posted - 2017.03.08 20:32:12 - [69] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Assault4gu Guristas don't do EM or explosive damage. Maybe you're thinking of Angels... If that is true, then the variance I am seeing is probably from me using the Microwarp drive towards the guristas. Maybe the extra speed and sig is increasing the damage. Speed reduces incoming damage by some measure. The amount varies depending on what sort of attack is hitting you and what the variables in that attack are. But by general rule of thumb speed = good. However, MWD increase your signature radius which makes you take more damage from those attacks, so the benefit of speed is negated by that signature bloom. As others have stated, and I myself did in the last post I did in this thread, Guristas are going to hit you with a LOT of kinetic damage, and some therm. There will not be any explosive or EM damage in this mission. I reassert my previous advice for tanking this mission, two x-type kinetic hardeners and one x-type thermal. They're cheap and you'll get your money's worth out of them as you mission frequently, I promise. I will also reassert my previous advice in regards to your mids. If you're using Tachys on that Paladin, a sensor booster and some tracking computers will allow you to hit everything in the room (use x-ray crystals and don't be afraid to shoot into some falloff range). You don't need the MWD for that mission - you can hit all NPC's from where you land and there's no travel time to any gates. So, if you're using the MWD you've already done something wrong because you never needed it in this mission. Worry about MWD in other missions, just get through this one for now. Quick tips for this mission (assuming NON-blitz, killing as much as you can for bounties)- 1: Land in first room. Lock all targets in your immediate area. Locate the battleship with highest bounty, move that target lock to a different location on your HUD so you don't immediately fire upon him. Kill everything in your immediate area, and that BS last. Hitting him triggers a reinforcement wave. 2: Kill the reinforcement wave, which spawns about 100km away. With your tackys, tracking computers, and sensor booster, you can immediately fire upon and start killing those targets. 3: After that wave is dead, you should have some elite cruisers that haven't noticed you yet. Fry them then activate the acceleration gate. 4: When you land in the second room, target the farthest enemy from you. Fire upon him. Take note of every enemy that is now aggroing you. They're all part of the same spawn group. Lock them all up and kill them. That finishes the mission. The remaining groups you can attack and kill at your leisure, and if it gets too hot, just turn in the mission and be done with it. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.08 21:00:55 - [70] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Assault4gu Guristas don't do EM or explosive damage. Maybe you're thinking of Angels... If that is true, then the variance I am seeing is probably from me using the Microwarp drive towards the guristas. Maybe the extra speed and sig is increasing the damage. Speed reduces incoming damage by some measure. The amount varies depending on what sort of attack is hitting you and what the variables in that attack are. But by general rule of thumb speed = good. However, MWD increase your signature radius which makes you take more damage from those attacks, so the benefit of speed is negated by that signature bloom. As others have stated, and I myself did in the last post I did in this thread, Guristas are going to hit you with a LOT of kinetic damage, and some therm. There will not be any explosive or EM damage in this mission. I reassert my previous advice for tanking this mission, two x-type kinetic hardeners and one x-type thermal. They're cheap and you'll get your money's worth out of them as you mission frequently, I promise. I will also reassert my previous advice in regards to your mids. If you're using Tachys on that Paladin, a sensor booster and some tracking computers will allow you to hit everything in the room (use x-ray crystals and don't be afraid to shoot into some falloff range). You don't need the MWD for that mission - you can hit all NPC's from where you land and there's no travel time to any gates. So, if you're using the MWD you've already done something wrong because you never needed it in this mission. Worry about MWD in other missions, just get through this one for now. Quick tips for this mission (assuming NON-blitz, killing as much as you can for bounties)- 1: Land in first room. Lock all targets in your immediate area. Locate the battleship with highest bounty, move that target lock to a different location on your HUD so you don't immediately fire upon him. Kill everything in your immediate area, and that BS last. Hitting him triggers a reinforcement wave. 2: Kill the reinforcement wave, which spawns about 100km away. With your tackys, tracking computers, and sensor booster, you can immediately fire upon and start killing those targets. 3: After that wave is dead, you should have some elite cruisers that haven't noticed you yet. Fry them then activate the acceleration gate. 4: When you land in the second room, target the farthest enemy from you. Fire upon him. Take note of every enemy that is now aggroing you. They're all part of the same spawn group. Lock them all up and kill them. That finishes the mission. The remaining groups you can attack and kill at your leisure, and if it gets too hot, just turn in the mission and be done with it. Yeah, right now my pulse lasers have a fall off range of about 70km and optimal to about 60km with the optimal range script and the locus using Scorch L crystals. Using the MWD is for closing in on those battlecruisers with the missiles that are kiting my Paladin around. Since I have a much shorter falloff than the Tachyons, I have to use this method. Or I can wait a few days to train up tachyons.... The extra damage I was referring to from extra speed is from missiles, which increase damage based on the speed in which they hit their target. If I'm going towards the shooter, it probably increases.

Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 755	Posted - 2017.03.08 22:32:17 - [71] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Yeah, right now my pulse lasers have a fall off range of about 70km and optimal to about 60km with the optimal range script and the locus using Scorch L crystals. Using the MWD is for closing in on those battlecruisers with the missiles that are kiting my Paladin around. Since I have a much shorter falloff than the Tachyons, I have to use this method. Or I can wait a few days to train up tachyons.... The extra damage I was referring to from extra speed is from missiles, which increase damage based on the speed in which they hit their target. If I'm going towards the shooter, it probably increases. Missiles do not increase damage from the speed of which they impact target. In fact they have an "explosion velocity", which via a complex formula, they do less damage as the \|absolute speed\| of a target increases. So if you fly straight at an enemy missile or straight away from it, it doesn't make a difference. What DOES make a difference is your signature radius. Remember I told you that using the MWD blooms your sig by a factor of five. So you'll definitely take more damage from missiles because of that. If you're taking turret fire, at that point your direction of travel relative to the source of the fire, becomes very important. You want to maximize your relative traversal movement in respect to the target, so it's more difficult for him to hit you. Also, you don't need tech II tachys. They're nice, but if you have enough sp in the baseline skill (large energy turret) to use pulses, you can do enough damage with beams to skate by. It'll be slower and tougher if you're lacking Tech II, but it's also tougher to face-tank more enemy fire by being in brawling range. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5954	Posted - 2017.03.08 22:44:53 - [72] - Quote What's tougher for Guristas Assault than whether or not you have T2 beams is applying EM/thermal damage to Guristas when they're weakest to kinetic... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 755	Posted - 2017.03.08 22:50:09 - [73] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: What's tougher for Guristas Assault than whether or not you have T2 beams is applying EM/thermal damage to Guristas when they're weakest to kinetic... Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5954	Posted - 2017.03.08 22:51:34 - [74] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that. With a Paladin vs. Guristas on Assault... blitz the sucker. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Takh Meir'noen Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 18	Posted - 2017.03.09 06:25:59 - [75] - Quote I disagree on needing to blitz it. Paladin kills them just fine. What it lacks in optimal damage type it makes up for it with excellent application. To the OUZA guy, I know the difference between faction and deadspace modules. I was telling the OP if he didn't have an X-Type LAR fit he needs to stop flying a Marauder like a poor. Anyway, bastion + 2 eanm + rah = you basically can't die most L4s. Marauders don't need specific resists.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.09 14:50:17 - [76] - Quote Well, no more further tests. I put some implants in last night and replaced the loci with the cap rig and came back and the mission instance was gone. Guess someone else cleared it. The next mission I got was the burner hawk mission so back to Jita I went to pick up a kestrel. Although I am lousy at mssiles.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5968	Posted - 2017.03.09 15:07:06 - [77] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Well, no more further tests. I put some implants in last night and replaced the loci with the cap rig and came back and the mission instance was gone. Guess someone else cleared it. The next mission I got was the burner hawk mission so back to Jita I went to pick up a kestrel. Although I am lousy at mssiles Missions will occasionally get gimped after downtime if you've cleared the objectives. Otherwise they re-spawn. Forget missiles - boring as sin (you're not missing anything). Autocannons for the win! I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.09 15:13:18 - [78] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Well, no more further tests. I put some implants in last night and replaced the loci with the cap rig and came back and the mission instance was gone. Guess someone else cleared it. The next mission I got was the burner hawk mission so back to Jita I went to pick up a kestrel. Although I am lousy at mssiles Missions will occasionally get gimped after downtime if you've cleared the objectives. Otherwise they re-spawn. Forget missiles - boring as sin (you're not missing anything). Autocannons for the win! My autocannon skills are a little better than missiles but for the burner hawk mission I think it is safer to stay at long range to avoid the web. Never tried it before going in tonight to see if I can win. From what I've read it will be hard to even hit this thing.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5977	Posted - 2017.03.10 07:06:05 - [79] - Quote How long did that take you in a Kestrel? I usually opt for the Polarized Garmur. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.10 14:40:03 - [80] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: How long did that take you in a Kestrel? I usually opt for the Polarized Garmur. First try I did not bring any jammers, so I gave up after 10 mins of kiting. Went back to refit with more dps and a gravimetric jammer. Took about 25-30 mins to kill after that.

Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 5993	Posted - 2017.03.10 20:47:50 - [81] - Quote Yes, if you MWD orbit at 25-30km they can't hit you. So it then comes down to applying the most effective damage. The universal Team Garmur fit seems to be ideal although I'm always on the lookout for something better... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kaybella Hakaari State War Academy Caldari State 50	Posted - 2017.03.10 21:15:24 - [82] - Quote You could also drop down to a Gallente or Caldari HAC or command ship. All four of those have natural kinetic and thermal resists, and a lot of them. The HAC can run around with diminished MWD sig bloom, which makes a lot of difference against big missiles. The command ships can seriously reduce incoming damage with afterburners, because torpedoes have really bad damage application.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.10 22:57:13 - [83] - Quote Funny thing... I never learned Minmatar or Gallente frigate skills... Anyway, the Kestrel was a cheap option. Relatively safe. My missile skills aren't that great so probably could do it faster with maxed skills. Using Mojanor missiles applied EM dmg which the burner hawk and bantams were weak to. Although the armor resists on those were higher so if you wanted you could switch to nova missiles. I didn't bother because it was going down pretty fast already.
Chainsaw Plankton FaDoyToy 2638	Posted - 2017.03.12 04:26:28 - [84] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that. With a Paladin vs. Guristas on Assault... blitz the sucker. mwd crash the gate in the first room, once in the second room mjd into the far group, and melt with conflag. 1300 em/therm dps is enough that damage type doesn't really matter. a roughly 6 min mission, hardly seems what ship you use unless you really want to get the time down to the seconds, I've used mach, kronos, paladin, nightmare, vindicator, all do it nice and quick. @ChainsawPlankto
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1626	Posted - 2017.03.12 09:25:44 - [85] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that. With a Paladin vs. Guristas on Assault... blitz the sucker. mwd crash the gate in the first room, once in the second room mjd into the far group, and melt with conflag. 1300 em/therm dps is enough that damage type doesn't really matter. a roughly 6 min mission, hardly seems what ship you use unless you really want to get the time down to the seconds, I've used mach, kronos, paladin, nightmare, vindicator, all do it nice and quick. Hey do you know why you want to "blitz" that and leave all that isk behind? Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.13 15:32:36 - [86] - Quote I got the assault mission again and this time I was prepared. Did both rooms pretty fast with no problems. It helps that my Marauder skill is at III now my tank has stabilized. A few extra implants also helped the dps. I still like to clear the whole room though for the bounty and the salvage. Now I'm stuck on a burner Dremiel mission. So far I've lost a succubus, vengeance and daredevil. All recommended fits from the burner thread. Going to try the succubus again tonight. I hope my shield tanking skills are up to par.
Flitz Farseeker Mass HaVoK KAOS Unlimited 35	Posted - 2017.03.13 16:25:48 - [87] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Now I'm stuck on a burner Dremiel mission. So far I've lost a succubus, vengeance and daredevil. All recommended fits from the burner thread. Going to try the succubus again tonight. I hope my shield tanking skills are up to par. Did you know that you can skip these missions without taking a standings hit? If you don't have the skills (in-game and out) and the right ship and fittings, they can be very challenging.
MoonDragn ZiTek 12	Posted - 2017.03.13 16:29:27 - [88] - Quote Flitz Farseeker wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Now I'm stuck on a burner Dremiel mission. So far I've lost a succubus, vengeance and daredevil. All recommended fits from the burner thread. Going to try the succubus again tonight. I hope my shield tanking skills are up to par. Did you know that you can skip these missions without taking a standings hit? If you don't have the skills (in-game and out) and the right ship and fittings, they can be very challenging. Why would I want to skip them? The point is to have a challenge doing these missions. If they were not challenging then missions would become a grind.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 6060	Posted - 2017.03.14 13:10:34 - [89] - Quote Once you have the right ship and ideal fit, Burner missions quickly become a grind like anything else. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
MoonDragn ZiTek 13	Posted - 2017.03.15 14:21:18 - [90] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Once you have the right ship and ideal fit, Burner missions quickly become a grind like anything else. Yeah it is a grind if you let it be. But try different setups and see if you can improve on it. I tinkered with the Paladin and now I'm flying through assault killing everything in a very short time. Doing really nice DPS now and no problems tanking at all. I did more burner missions too, did another team one with the kestrel, slow but still works. Now I'm configuring a Garmur to see if I can speed it up.

Gerald Mardiska The Ammatar Auxillaries of Tidacha 37	Posted - 2017.03.16 13:44:42 - [91] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: So I finally got into a Paladin and am trying level 4 missions. Last night I started a mission called the Assault from a level 4 agent and when I warped into the mission, I was hit hard by all the NPCs there. My Paladin is configured for standard level 4 missions and for tanking I have a damage control unit II, 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II. Plus I have the bastion module. So after barely escaping out of there with about 30% structure left, I went back to the station to put more tanking modules. I put another Energized adaptive nano Membrane and removed one of my damage boost modules to put a kinetic hardener in. Went back, and wow, still hitting me hard, in the time it takes me to get into optimal range I'm down to 10% hull and barely warped out again. This time I went back and took out more modules for more tank, now I have 1 energized adaptive, 1 damage control, and 2 hardeners, kinetic and thermal to match the NPC dmg. I pretty much have 87% resist for kinetic and thermal and over 70 on the other stuff. I even put on a micro jump drive so I can warp out of range to get some breathing room. When I went back in, I immediately jumped 100 km away, noticed a few of the ships were still hitting me. HARD. what's going on? This is not missile damage, it looks like lasers, and this stuff is hitting me for 150-200 dmg a hit. Where are my resistances? I put my Bastion module online and still take close to 150 damage a hit. What's going on? Anyone have any ideas? My armor tanking related skills are mostly at V. With the exception of Armor layering which shouldn't be related. pro tip: TRAIN ALL THE SKILLS. and get your paladin mastery up to atleast IV.
MoonDragn ZiTek 13	Posted - 2017.03.16 14:49:28 - [92] - Quote Gerald Mardiska wrote: pro tip: TRAIN ALL THE SKILLS. and get your paladin mastery up to atleast IV. Yeah everything is maxed out now except for Marauder at IV and Large Pulse Laser Specialization at IV. Not having problems with missions anymore.
Drake Aihaken CODE.d 45	Posted - 2017.03.16 23:52:08 - [93] - Quote Get Marauder to V and it's a whole other level...
MoonDragn ZiTek 22	Posted - 2017.03.17 14:13:34 - [94] - Quote Drake Aihaken wrote: Get Marauder to V and it's a whole other level... ...46 days of training...
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1653	Posted - 2017.03.19 10:15:35 - [95] - Quote MoonDragn wrote: Drake Aihaken wrote: Get Marauder to V and it's a whole other level... ...46 days of training... I didn't train it either. But in my defense, I don't like them to begin with, so level 4 will do just fine. Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Soel Reit Dambusters 617 Sq 599	Posted - 2017.03.19 16:31:22 - [96] - Quote elitatwo wrote: MoonDragn wrote: Drake Aihaken wrote: Get Marauder to V and it's a whole other level... ...46 days of training... I didn't train it either. But in my defense, I don't like them to begin with, so level 4 will do just fine. reported for being not elite (1773)
elitatwo Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1658	Posted - 2017.03.19 18:46:06 - [97] - Quote Soel Reit wrote: ...reported for being not elite (1773) sorry but I still don't like marauders. When they changed the golden Raven to that abomination of a duck called golem, I yoloed mine in a wormhole just to get rid of it and get good fortune by BoB. And, come on, who doesn't like spikes? I am basically Sansha Kuvakei's twin sister, a sore loser, and so emo that I need to cut myself when I take the fights that I know I can win. Eve Minions is recruiting. This is the law of ship progression! Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Soel Reit Dambusters 617 Sq 599	Posted - 2017.03.19 18:49:59 - [98] - Quote elitatwo wrote: I am basically Sansha Kuvakei's twin sister, a sore loser, and so emo that I need to cut myself when I take the fights that I know I can win. JESUS don't take those fights pls lmao


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