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I might have a complex about losing my belt

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SumDum AirHawk Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 09:53:00 - [1] I'm suprised that I haven't seen much discussion (outside the COAD) on some of the upcoming changes to the complex and belt 'hiding' proposed for Revelations 2. I checked a few pages back, and it seems the blog may have slipped past most people. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=458 I am curious what the community thinks will be affected. I've never had the privilege of 'owning' a 10/10 plex system, but I know they can be serious money generators. If they randomize the locations around the constellations as proposed will it make it harder for the big alliances to control these money trees? Will it make it easier to ninja the plex's do you think? Also, getting rid of belts entirely sounds a bit drastic, but I suppose it might get people to spread out some and possibly help lag in some systems.
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:05:00 - [2] Originally by: SumDum I'm suprised that I haven't seen much discussion (outside the COAD) on some of the upcoming changes to the complex and belt 'hiding' proposed for Revelations 2. I checked a few pages back, and it seems the blog may have slipped past most people. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=458 I am curious what the community thinks will be affected. I've never had the privilege of 'owning' a 10/10 plex system, but I know they can be serious money generators. If they randomize the locations around the constellations as proposed will it make it harder for the big alliances to control these money trees? Will it make it easier to ninja the plex's do you think? Also, getting rid of belts entirely sounds a bit drastic, but I suppose it might get people to spread out some and possibly help lag in some systems. Doubt it will affect alliances that much as ccp's made special dispensation for the large mass 10/10 controling alliances, in that theres going to be a higher probability of a complex of that sort occuring within the constelation where one was. I guess it will probably end up with more than one 10/10 in a constellation at a time which would mean alliances actually gain more. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:12:00 - [3] Would you like a side-order of no local with your randomized belt locations? That'll be $W1N please.
MrLobster Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:25:00 - [4] This will hurt all ratters in 0.0 (not just macros). 1) Having to search out every belt, means a lot less money will be injected in to the market (Time v Money). 2) PvP will be affected too, taking longer to find people in a belt, making gate camping more profitable. 3) Bookmarks start to make an apperance again. Everyday you would create a new set of bookmarks for your surrounding areas hidden belts. 20 belts in a system, 10 people ratting, 200 bookmarks for just 20 belts... so will that help the server load? 4) Miners unaffected. Miners will still be making the same amount of money as before. 5) Hidden Plexers are also unaffected (my profession), we already have to locate our isk sources so it wont bother us one bit. To the idea it would spread people out I dont think will work, it would take a lot longer to find people in systems, so the locals would feel safer, and have more time to escape. I do feel the possiblility that some of 0.0 ratters will move to empire (Low Sec too), as missions are a steady stream of isk. But then maybe this is what CCP are after, MORE people in low sec after the new lvl 5-6 missions. I would say that each hidden belt would need to have a high respawn rate, so to counteract the time finding the other belts. Why dont we have agents in 0.0 too? __________________________ My sig changes once work gets boring... yes it was a slow day today.
Ian Novarider Aliastra	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:27:00 - [5] Some of the best changes CCP ever planned to implement IMHO. Have fun Ian Quote: Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
Gaia Thorn Villains	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:34:00 - [6] Well i think to ninja a 10/10 complex isnt that easy it's not like jump in with a thorax and run throu it. And as for removing the roid belt as i undertstand it they are talking about exploration belts and not regular belts.
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Nero Scuro Would you like a side-order of no local with your randomized belt locations? That'll be $W1N please. That's kinda what I was thinking. With belts, complexes and the lot being much harder to track down local could finally be removed as it viable to hide effectively. Otherwise 0.0 will become even safer as it takes far longer to track down these instanced complexes and belts (more than enough time for someone to safe spot/dock/log/etc).
Ladyah Liandri VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:45:00 - [8] I'd say: let's just see when and if at all it's going to be implemented. Then let's wait some 2 or 3 months more until it will work as intented. 2 further months until it will be nerfed to WoW style. After that will be a good time to ask why in hell they changed one of the few remaining functioning things at all. </sarcasm based on experience>
Ilea Celentay Veiled Justice	Posted - 2007.04.30 10:58:00 - [9] If it makes low-sec less dead by people feeling safe in there I think its a good idea, certainly be interesting and... odd, for the first few weeks as every adapts. Faction Ship Info \|\| Rig Factory
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:06:00 - [10] We get also an easier way to scan some cosmic signatures, like a scanner that's built-in in every ship. So it's not like you would have to probe everything with exploration probes after that patch. ___________ Muuuhhh !!!
Kappas. Galaxy Punks Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:10:00 - [11] Eve in 2 years time... [undock] "Are you sure you wish to do this without first scanning in case something is there?" -yes- [BOOOOM]
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Ilea Celentay If it makes low-sec less dead by people feeling safe in there I think its a good idea, certainly be interesting and... odd, for the first few weeks as every adapts. It would make them feel safe in lowsec... by making them safe in lowsec. Genius. I really don't have much confidence in this Greyscale dude though. The fact that he said he wanted more small PvP gangs fighting one another without having to 'resort' to ganking NPCers (complete with optomistic air as if he expected pirates to be rejoicing at this) makes him sound like a FILTHY carebear to me. Add in that someone had to point out to him that pirates gank NPCers because that's how they earn their living, not neccessarily to have fun, to which his reply was "oh yeeeeah, I didn't think of that" gives me the feeling he'll yank static 'belts with nothing more than a "yeah, I knew doing this would annoy PvPers, but then I did it anyway" followed by the sound of him drooling on his own keyboard.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:21:00 - [13] I agree with 'mining out a roid belt'. But this exploration thing is getting out of hand. There is nothing wrongs with the belts or how they function (for a game). Mining is already the worst thing you could possibly do in this game, no fun at all...now your going to have to scan down a juicy roid to mine from? I can see thousands of BM's hitting the contract section again. Good way to make Eve-Online no fun at all....welcome to the 'Gated camp Eve-online' Where if you want fun you must be a gate camper....screw that. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:25:00 - [14] Either Eve saves the location of each basic belt every DT after you find it, or you're just going to end up with an assload of bookmarks everyday. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:36:00 - [15] I'm not a miner, but if I were I'd be happy about the changes. I can't see it really being much harder to mine - you'll end up spending about as much time scanning for a belt as you would going around belts looking for good ore now. Then add in the excitement of the unknown and possibly finding some lucrative, rare ore - plus the proactive approach to finding somewhere to mine - and I'd see it as a happy departure from warping in to the same belt, day in and day out, knowing exactly what you'll find before you even log into the game.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:42:00 - [16] I am very concerned with the removal of belts just because ratting is the only way to make money in 0.0 space. The random complexes is awesome, but I just do not understand the need to change belts.
OneSock PLuSQuAMPERFEkT iNc	Posted - 2007.04.30 11:43:00 - [17] Originally by: MrLobster 2) PvP will be affected too, taking longer to find people in a belt, making gate camping more profitable. Well it depends if the scanner can find ships too or just belts. It would make sense for the scanner to have a short range player/NPC finder. So the pirate just warps to the planet/moon and runs a scan for ships. For a system with many belts but less planets, this could actually be faster than moving belt to belt until you find something. Combine this with a nerf to local so that you only show up if you "speak". Means pirates can still drop in unannounced. Of course you then need to give the miners the tools to stay safe. eg. enable the ship scanner to see who is currently in system (but not give a location). So scanner requirements. 1. ability to scan for belts to mine. 2. ability to scan for player/NPC ships at a system level.(i.e. is anybody in system. 3. ability to scan for player/NPCS in belts near planet/moon. or something like that.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:15:00 - [18] I believe the changes proposed in that blog may be detrimental to the game. What it amounts to in essence is more time sinks. You'll have to spend time exploring. Not only that but realise that once you mine out an exploration site, something currently a single barge can do in a matter of a few hours, it doesn't respawn. So you are looking at having to explore every single day. At least 1 to 2 hours wasted just looking for a belt. Also in high sec such sites are not common, I see it if they go to this system another attempt to force everyone into low sec and 0.0. It will be catastrophic for the game. You'll have to spend time skilling. You will have to train to use exploration. You will not be able to depend on the small nearly useless generic scanner all ships will be getting. It will not be sufficient to lead you to anything of value. Its more a starter scanner necessary to allow new players some chance of finding something. Anyone that mines, rats, or does complexes on a regular basis is going to have to train exploration skills. The sites currently are not big enough to accomadate a corp. Therefore you can't say it just takes one or two. To accomadate a mid size corp it would take many such sites. What does this mean? It means that once these effects go into play the casual player will be pushed even further out. That means a loss in game subscriptions. I suspect with these measures that the game will become largely unplayable unless you can devote 3 to 5 hours a day as a miner, ratter or complex goer, as you will need time to explore your site daily, and time to actually do your business. You can't assume you can find it one day and do it the next. That won't be a luxury as someone else might find your site and do it for you while you are taking care of real life. Given the current size of the gaming population, and the current market needs. I would foresee a market crash. Prices will rise considerably due to the extra time wasted just looking for a belt to mine. You might see minerals three to five times current prices. This means a corresponding price rise in modules, ammunition, and ships. The game wouldn't survive. Could they make it work, possibly. But the way the blog is written gives me doubts. I've mined exploration sites. In order to work as they wish in this blog they will have to be larger. I'd say two to five times larger than the current exploration mining sites. They'll also need to renew their ores every day at server maintanance. Currently they are a one shot wonder. They should last 3 to 5 days. Currently escalation is horribly bugged. THere are times the rats will take off or other circumstances will occur to prevent escalation. Before we look to moving the entire game to such a system, I'd look at fixing the current sites. Another question is they claim this will help server load. But won't it add even more algorithims to do all this? Won't the exploration sites themselves consume more database than the current system. I realise the game is stressed we all can see that. But I'm not sure completely replacing such central parts of the game is the answer. SOE tried such changes with SWG when they proved ineffective in fixing the game, it only made things worse, not better. I hope they will provide more details, but I certainly have not been encouraged by that blog. Galactic Express Recruitment Post Thoughts expressed are mine and
Valan	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:53:00 - [19] Scanning for belts to rat and mine in is possibly the worst idea CCP have ever contemplated. This removes the casual gamer from EVE. Casual gamers are great they pay full subs and don't log in often hence less lag. Won't bother me another couple of skills are no big deal. Prices ramp up but thats no big deal for a vet in 0.0. It will take me longer to find stuff so I sell it for more. Supply decreases prices go up. For a newbie it makes 0.0 even more laborious. For an empire dweller it makes everything more expensive. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Kiyano Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.04.30 12:59:00 - [20] The change to complexes is amazing, it means nobody can camp them and guarantee that they'll get the complex, its more fair... however to a whole Alliance it wont make much of a difference as they'll know what constellation to look in and it shouldn't take very long to find the plex. The change to belts however isn't going to be implemented for at LEAST another 6 months, maybe 8+ so there is lots and lots of time to test it. "hidden" belts as you put it aren't making it into Eve until at least Rev 3. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=512317&page=1#17
Crescens Caldari Dark Tornado Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Nero Scuro Would you like a side-order of no local with your randomized belt locations? That'll be $W1N please. That's kinda what I was thinking. With belts, complexes and the lot being much harder to track down local could finally be removed as it viable to hide effectively. Otherwise 0.0 will become even safer as it takes far longer to track down these instanced complexes and belts (more than enough time for someone to safe spot/dock/log/etc). Why not have a system whereby your face only shows up in local after you've been in system for 2/5/whatever-works-for-balance minutes? That way you wouldn't have to spend ages warping around a system with the scanner to find out if it's empty of miners/NPCers or not, and you'd have a chance to sneak up on people before they bash CTRL-Q. Also cool would be a way to differentiate between occupied and empty ships on the scanner so that you can tell the difference between a massed fleet and a load of unused NPCing ships in a POS - would be critical if local were ever removed and useful even if it wasn't.
elohllird Gallente Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.04.30 13:58:00 - [22] Complex idea = good Roid belts = very very stupid idea I'm not an alt God**** it!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.04.30 14:08:00 - [23] I like the idea of non-static belts. But with the caveat that it's handled carefully as regards ratting/mining. The 'difficulty' is that suddenly probe launchers become 'must have' items, which is also a hell of a lot more irritating. I wouldn't want to see everyone having to fit probe launchers to rat, mine or grief in 0.0. That really would suck. That said, it's an opportunity for ship/ore scanners to get a rejig. If, for example, your ship and ore scanner worked as a specialised short range probe, that, for example, found NPCs or ore within a 1AU range (or whatever the range of belts from planets are going to be) then IMO it would be fine. Warp to the gas giant, scan, find some belts, start mining. Or same with rat spawns. I think the thingy suggested slightly more 'interesting' NPC encounters, which would be good - I'd happily fight an 8 NPC encounter, which dropped reasonable loot and bounties, rather than belt hopping killing 1 BS at a time. Local, meh, local's been an issue since day one. If it's removed, as long as the 'scanner' could be automatic, and 'pinged' when an unknown or hostile entered range, then that'd be ok. As is, just removing local would make 'non hunting' activies interminably boring, as you just clicked 'scan' every 20 seconds. shrug I can see it working, I like the general concept, but it all hinges on implementation.
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.04.30 14:27:00 - [24] Originally by: James Lyrus The 'difficulty' is that suddenly probe launchers become 'must have' items, which is also a hell of a lot more irritating. Which you won't need as you will get a built in scanner in your ship for basic items such as normal belts and 1/10 plexes. The only real difference will be that you won't have a right click menue to select the belt from. Screw t3. I'm waiting for t20. Just like t2, but it's free. - xArmagedunx
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.30 15:12:00 - [25] snickers I love doomsayers. They come with every patch, preaching doom and destruction for Eve, mass subscription cancellation, the end of the internet, and the doom of CCP. Unfortunately the references to SOE don't apply. CCP has been doing it RIGHT for several years. They have a different track record than Sony. So don't bother. =) Eh, not getting on the soapbox when its clear that mentally incapacitated people who rant about issues they know little about wouldn't understand anyway. The only bad part is that I have no popcorn. :( I haven't bought any more! The last patch and the whines that came with it used up the last of it as fodder for my entertainment.
Evandra Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.30 16:33:00 - [26] if finding encounters as a hunter in 0.0 will work similar to missions all will be fine. you hit your onboard scanner and get an encounter spawned, kill it and what ever is there despawns as you leave. same for asteroid belts so there would be no need to BM like mad..go there mine it or lose it. as long as it will always spawn you something (sometimes a nice spawn, sometimes a little)it would be fun but as soon you are limited to like 5-6 spawns a system it will start to **** most off. 0.0 hunting in crowded places has become more of an issue at least for me more often lately so i'd prefer this system as long as it spawns those for everyone who is looking for them and work a little bit like missions in empire do just with our long known 0.0 spawns :P
Evandra Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.30 16:35:00 - [27] just recognized that despawning as soon as you leave would be somehow bad for miners that haule with one char :P so link the despawn to the next use of your onboard scanner and keep the last signature always safed there.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2007.04.30 16:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Curzon Dax snickers I love doomsayers. They come with every patch, preaching doom and destruction for Eve, mass subscription cancellation, the end of the internet, and the doom of CCP. Unfortunately the references to SOE don't apply. CCP has been doing it RIGHT for several years. They have a different track record than Sony. So don't bother. =) Eh, not getting on the soapbox when its clear that mentally incapacitated people who rant about issues they know little about wouldn't understand anyway. The only bad part is that I have no popcorn. :( I haven't bought any more! The last patch and the whines that came with it used up the last of it as fodder for my entertainment. Yup, CCP are steadily turning EVE into WoW and its subscription numbers are increasing accordingly. The forums and ingame get flooded with people from WoW who've migrated after they've 'tried' everything there, spewing constant verbal trash here such as; "macro-mining is ok!", "griefing is bad!", "all noncon PvP is griefing!!", "the point of the game is to grind better Epi-- sorry, Faction ships and gear than everyone else and 'try' the new gimmick every content patch!", "a game exists to instantly gratify me, I'm paying sub fees and I never want to wait for anything, ever!! Let me warp to zero! Let me teleport my clone around the galaxy! REMOVE RoF FROM GUNS, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO WAIT SEVERAL SECONDS BETWEEN SHOTS!! COME ON CCP, I'M PAYING YOU, THAT MEANS YOU DO WHAT I SAY!!!" And CCP are listening to these people, because there is more of them and they're easier to please. I guess that's RIGHT thing to do, huh? It certainly gets CCP more money and subscribers, doesn't it? Hey, maybe EVE could one day rival WoW in cramming 6 million idiots into one tiny game. That would certainly make EVE the 'best'. Idiot.
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:06:00 - [29] Originally by: MrLobster This will hurt all ratters in 0.0 (not just macros). 1) Having to search out every belt, means a lot less money will be injected in to the market (Time v Money). 2) PvP will be affected too, taking longer to find people in a belt, making gate camping more profitable. 3) Bookmarks start to make an apperance again. Everyday you would create a new set of bookmarks for your surrounding areas hidden belts. 20 belts in a system, 10 people ratting, 200 bookmarks for just 20 belts... so will that help the server load? 4) Miners unaffected. Miners will still be making the same amount of money as before. 5) Hidden Plexers are also unaffected (my profession), we already have to locate our isk sources so it wont bother us one bit. To the idea it would spread people out I dont think will work, it would take a lot longer to find people in systems, so the locals would feel safer, and have more time to escape. I do feel the possiblility that some of 0.0 ratters will move to empire (Low Sec too), as missions are a steady stream of isk. But then maybe this is what CCP are after, MORE people in low sec after the new lvl 5-6 missions. I would say that each hidden belt would need to have a high respawn rate, so to counteract the time finding the other belts. Why dont we have agents in 0.0 too? I think that the belts will not respawn in the same place. It means that the belt you found will not be useful after you mine it out. This would nerf the macrominers. ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.04.30 17:26:00 - [30] Well i dunno about removing static belts... I mean in RL space we have static asteroidbelts.. hell it would be a scary thought if the belt between Jupiter and Mars would randomly respawn in a different location every 24h LOL Yes i know roids themselves respawn and thats not true in real space, but i think having randomly spawning belts is where i draw the line between fact and fiction.

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