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DHB WildCat BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:28:00 - [1] Titans- The soluion to the major comlaint that all Eve players have.... LAG. However it has created an ever greater problem. Note please that titans do not affect my game play so this is as unbiased opinion as one can produce. Several players that I have known since I began the game, talk about the old days. Thier cruise missle kessys, duel afterburner crows, and so on. They tell tales of fights with no lag and when the eve population was only around 10,000 players. There have come nerfs, and changes. Ships added like capitals (carriers, and dreads). They tell of how painful pos warfare is, and how they wish it was like the days where you could just shoot an enemies station, and force them to defend it and thus get a good fight, instead of the enemy hiding in a pos shield. But through all this they have stayed with the game, enjoyed playing it and have never really thought ill of EVE. Until now. The supercapital class ship. Imagine if you will a normal day in an alliance players life. You log on thinking of mining for fortune or joining a roaming gang to fulfill your pvp needs. Then your fc says we need to defend a pos, or go take on down. You think okay defending the alliance is good, Im in. 4 hours later sitting on the gate waiting to jump in. Thinking jeez this is boring and Im tired. 2 more hours pass, FC "okay jump." Jump in, begin shooting lag in managable with slight module hesitation. Think ooo the pretty bubbles. Then the enemy fleet warp outs. A cov-ops uncloaks and sets a cyno, the screen goes black / white / whatever. Your entire fleet goes pop. Then everyone on ts goes this sucks. So after 6 hours of planning and waiting you get 20 seconds of fight followed by your entire fleet going pop, because one dude pressed one button. Because of this several people I know are leaving the game, it is no longer fun for them, and I do believe that after titans become more popular and this incident becomes more frequent, that thousands will follow, and eve will no longer exist. Eliminate titans from the game WildCat
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:30:00 - [2] Really what you're asking for is removing DDDs, not Titans. Titans can serve other purposes than going pwnkakke all over a fleet. warp drive active \| nature vraie
tekit RONA Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:37:00 - [3] Edited by: tekit on 03/05/2007 15:33:16 Originally by: DHB WildCat So after 6 hours of planning and waiting you get 20 seconds of fight followed by your entire fleet going pop, because one dude pressed one button. WildCat lol
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:38:00 - [4] +1 restecpa for wildcat! I haven't seen a titan in action yet, but i've been in several large fleet engagements and i would HATE a well-planned and prepared OP to end i a great flash. COAD: OMG bob post flame flame flame Kieron: DIE ban OMG bobdevs! log-in alt flame flame flame
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:41:00 - [5] Would people be happy if the titan was changed like this: 10 turrets. Autofitted. Take the damage from the DDD, divide it among these turrets. Divide the recharge time of DDD among the turrets. Just an idea. This would make it more of a masskilling, big beam(missile etc) wielding badass.
Heriom UNITED KINGDOM MAYHEM THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:15:00 - [6] Im 5 weeks into the game 1 1/2 years ago that is. Ive been running missions like a lunatic for my first BC. Finally I have it. I deserve ive worked 5 weeks solidly for it scraping isk from lvl 1 missions and lvl 2's. I wait at a gate into low sec .4 system. Thinking should i or shouldnt I? I jump...I get locked...scrammed...webbed...pew pew pew Im dead. 5 weeks wasted or not? No chance. Great fun. Loved every minute of it. Will i post on the forums. Nerf Pirates? Nah, there part of eve just like the titan. Get on with it and stop moaning.
Drakonei	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:33:00 - [7] Titans seem to be getting a lot of flack lately. In fairness, with the time it'd take the cyno to be generated, and the DD to be deployed, you could have easily warped the majority of your fleet out. Perhaps you were prevented by lag. But if that'd been the case, then your argument would be with the lag, not the ship. Not to mention, that titan probably cost considerably more than your entire fleet. Perhaps people should try to adapt instead. Have scouts survey the surrounding systems to make sure there isnt a titan thats going to bomb you? Instead of forming one huge battle, try to outflank your opponent and start fights in multiple locations, thus giving no obvious target for the titan to attack. The titan is a very different weapon than anything we've had. But I cant help but get the impression that people just arent trying to figure out news ways to fight with (or against) it. Instead, they are complaining that it should be removed.
Marketcheck2	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:47:00 - [8] Nice to see you are doing the Goon's posting for them. Being Remidial asked that goons post about nerfing titans, I'm not surprised to see a BE start it.
DaveW Caldari South Park Development	Posted - 2007.05.03 16:55:00 - [9] Edited by: DaveW on 03/05/2007 16:52:25 "Fearful of EVE's end..." If you have the last active account you get all the STUFF..!! I'll wait for that... --------------------------------------------------- "If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen."
Adaris Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:06:00 - [10] As has already been said a cyno would take 5-10 minutes to launch before a DDD blast comes through it, giving you ample time (unless your in a bubble) to run like the wind... I think your problem is the waiting around rather than lag/DD etc, I hate it as well, its a by-product of blob warfare sadly. But something I'm willing to do, as its exciting all the time imo, leads to a good thing most of the time imo. * * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:09:00 - [11] our corp heard one day there was a hostile fleet we could have a fleet fight with. there numbers were in the region of 200. we got together a gang of around 30 in sniping ships, bubbled the route the 200 strong gang were going to take. we thought we were likely to get killed but were up for the fight. we just wanted some fun at the end of the day- which is what this games about. so we bubbled the gate and waited and waited. the hostile gang knew we were there, of course we had the advantage of fixed bubbles, but the had the numbers and clear advantage. so we waited some more. then eventually the hostile gang comes to the gate. they jump in. the next minute theres a cyno, a titan appears and thed dd half our fleet. were left with 10 - 15 peple and now havent enough people to fight. now WTF is that all about. we wanted some fun on a fight we were at a disadvantage in and the hostile gang, not happy with 7-1 advantage dd our fleet? theres NO FUN in that, and that is a good example of the problem imho.
Aypse Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:10:00 - [12] Why not use one of the other 10 threads on this issue? There really isn't a need to start another thread, so that the same people can rehash the same problems, the same suggestions, the same whines, same frustrations, etc. etc. etc. Originally by: Oveur Eve is primarily a PVP game and hence our focus is on making that experience balanced.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:22:00 - [13] Had a simaler situation to slothe, we had a mere 25 man gang in AGG, mostley T1, mostley frigs, desi's, cruisers, a fre BC a few BS and a few ceptors, not much of a threat except for the 20+ fighters we had assigned around. 30 man Storm gang on the other side of the gate, we knew they were waiting to jump in, most of them small ships like ours (ie: the fighters we have aint gonna help much) but more T2. We wait... they wait... Frigate jumps in, we pop him, just after he lights a cyno... BoB Titan jumps in, we all die. 20 fighters that dident pose much of a threat to the even numbered gang on the other side of the gate are the bigest loss... we warp out in pods... ...gee that was fun. :\| It was kinda amuseing seeing a Titan DD our little tech 1 fleet that averaged cruiser size, but bleh, it would have been a fair fight. This kinda says it all. BTW Whoever thinks that it takes any time at all from the cyno apearing to the doomsday going off is just wrong, it can be pritty much instant. -
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:23:00 - [14] Originally by: slothe our corp heard one day there was a hostile fleet we could have a fleet fight with. there numbers were in the region of 200. we got together a gang of around 30 in sniping ships, bubbled the route the 200 strong gang were going to take. we thought we were likely to get killed but were up for the fight. we just wanted some fun at the end of the day- which is what this games about. so we bubbled the gate and waited and waited. the hostile gang knew we were there, of course we had the advantage of fixed bubbles, but the had the numbers and clear advantage. so we waited some more. then eventually the hostile gang comes to the gate. they jump in. the next minute theres a cyno, a titan appears and thed dd half our fleet. were left with 10 - 15 peple and now havent enough people to fight. now WTF is that all about. we wanted some fun on a fight we were at a disadvantage in and the hostile gang, not happy with 7-1 advantage dd our fleet? theres NO FUN in that, and that is a good example of the problem imho. yea, calling in a DD for 30 ships is seriously a sissy move. I had a more colorful term but didn't want to get my post modded. It's like calling in a nuclear strike for 2 platoons of soldiers LMAO. It would be nice if Titans could somehow be limited to defense only. Being able to DD through a cyno is wack. You should have to come into system and then get stuck til the DD is refueled and recharged because of "temporal instability" or something. Make it so they can't jump anywhere until refueled. With that amount of pwnage there has to be some sort of risk to balance it out. -Kal /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:35:00 - [15] Originally by: DHB WildCat Titan whine.... Ok, your post left me wanting to comment, mostly because of its "I don't have one so its unfair!" nature..... I imagine it was the same when battleships were new...... Ok, analysing your battle scenario..... 1. If your FC has people waiting around inactive for 6 hours, he is an utter and complete moron!! Surest way of killing your own morale... 2. If your FC doesn't know a titan is there, he is a double complete moron for not checking the wherabouts of enemy titan pilots.... New titans don't get revealed often, so spare me the 'unknown' argument. 3. If your FC knows a titan is there, he's a triple complete moron for presenting the titan pilot with the perfect target, and not having the backup required. If you know you're going against a Titan, you need multiple suicide FLEETS to throw at it!! First, you need to suicide one fleet to draw the DD. THEN, you need to be quick on your toes to catch the titan before it leaves.... This requires a top-notch FC, which your FC in this scenario most certainly isn't... If you want to get into a system guarded by a titan, you either need your own titan to jump you in, or you must accept that heavy losses are the cost of entering. 4. If you go up against an alliance who is fielding titans, and you aren't, then you really got no business doing so, and you have less business whining over losses. Your entire FLEET is probably worth only a fraction of the titan cost. Your FC in your scenario is making every single error he can, and you're complaining that he looses??? The only thing wrong with titans are their ability to remote DD. Everything else is consistent with the effort and cost involved in building and fielding it. What you're basically whining over is "Wah... Our blob doesn't work against Titans... WAH!!!" Dude, I got news for you! Titans were introduced to BREAK blobs! Some people have the dedication to WORK for their 0.0 empire..... Other people just want it given to them...... General advice: Stop whining!
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:38:00 - [16] Down with DD. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:40:00 - [17] Edited by: Kerfira on 03/05/2007 17:37:18 Originally by: Alski Story... Tbh, if I had a Titan nearby, and was offered a target of 20 fighters (cost 300+mill), I'd probably have taken it too. If the two groups had gotten into a dog-fight, a number of small (insurable) ships would have been destroyed, but probably no significant losses on and with the fighters most likely escaping. Your FC failed in spotting the enemy titan pilot in system and take appropriate action. His fault!! Build your own titan, and you'll have the same advantage.... General advice: Stop whining!
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:40:00 - [18] And people still find it odd so many live in empire and not low/0.0 sec
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:42:00 - [19] Okay for those who only looked at my corp tick and flamed.... **** you! For those with some insight and similar accounts thank you. I posted this because I am concerned where the game is going. Like I said before Titans do not affect my gameplay but I have lost a few friends from the game because of it. The low sec guy in a battlecruiser.... get an alt. For the guys that think it takes 5- 10 minutes before dd goes off in a cyno. Dont post unless you know what you are talking about. It takes about 30 seconds after the cyno goes up to its completion and fleet dead. Now try to get out of a large bubble in 30 pls. Let me know how it goes. I have no affiliation with the goons. I wanted to try to join someone else, but Burn Eden chose the goons, I did not. I dont care if FIX "BoB pets" say to adapt. WCS, torp, EW, nerfs and more, we adapt! Like I said before, I fear that eve is dieing and I do enjoy the game. Maybe use Titans to move fleets and as a big dreadnaught, but not as a device that can wipe out entire fleets in 15 seconds. CCP if Titans become more abundant, and used. Your game will die. If you dont care and think this new vampire game you have going will make you money, you are in for a surprise. This game is unique, open ended pvp. Dont ruin it. Dont put more effort into this fantasy roleplay game, keep your one trick pony alive and make effort to better it. That is my advice. Take it or Leave it, but "pets" there is no place for you in this thread. WildCat
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:49:00 - [20] OMG kerfira, do you know how titans work? You can have them at a pos set up cyno at enemy position and blow your load in about 30 seconds.... or you can jump it in to system on top of enemy and blow load in 15 seconds. Now go back to empire and mine, cause you obviously do not know a lot about how titans or fleet warfare works. By the way my corp doesnt need a titan. I dont want one, and if you dont know who my corp is, you have no right to even post in my thread. Now buh bye WildCat
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:52:00 - [21] Edited by: Soulita on 03/05/2007 17:51:24 Supercaps are like dinosaurs. I hope they vanish just like'em.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:52:00 - [22] Edited by: Kerfira on 03/05/2007 17:52:31 Originally by: DHB WildCat OMG kerfira, do you know how titans work? You can have them at a pos set up cyno at enemy position and blow your load in about 30 seconds.... or you can jump it in to system on top of enemy and blow load in 15 seconds. Now go back to empire and mine, cause you obviously do not know a lot about how titans or fleet warfare works. By the way my corp doesnt need a titan. I dont want one, and if you dont know who my corp is, you have no right to even post in my thread. Now buh bye WildCat I DO know how titans work, and I DO know who BE are.... You'll also note that I didn't agree with remote DD. It should be taken out immediately... A careful FC will have the names of all enemy titans in his address book, so he can see if they log in. If one is online, and if a cyno appears in his system, he'll check local immediately and warp the hell away if it is in his system. There's plenty of warnings and counters, but it require a SHARP FC, which the one you describe most utterly definitly categorically isn't!!! 30 seconds you say? If your FC isn't able to get his fleet out in that time, take his title away immediately! If your fleet members isn't able to obey his orders within the 30 seconds, send THEM back to empire! The FC in your scenario makes all the mistakes he can possibly do, and you still want him to win??? General advice: Stop whining!
WGAnubis Marrith	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:06:00 - [23] The common theme ive found in the complaining of titans is this: Very, very poor intel combined with a lack of either being able to size up a tactical situation, or common sence. Any stratigic player can look at the situation and tell right off the bat that they were waiting for the titan pilot to come online to make their move and honestly I have to say that if you actually decided to wait that long you should have expected that to happen, as the old saying goes: "A good defense is a strong offence" After a half hour you should have gone after them if you knew that they were on the other side of the gate. Send in a scout, size them up and decide to either attack or withdraw to another system while leaving a small force to decieve them. If you withdrew from that system and left only a few members to watch and call in reinforcements when needed when the titan fired off its DDD device you wouldnt have suffered such a devistating blow. In short, dont wait for the enemy to come to you after so long, go after them because in reality, they have the advantage of choosing when they are ready to attack and how much power they can bring in to the fight which they clearly did.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Kerfira Your FC failed in spotting the enemy titan pilot in system and take appropriate action. His fault!! Build your own titan, and you'll have the same advantage.... o...k... I think mabey your under the impression that the Titans doomday use cap energy or something... It doesent. The Titan can cyno in from a remote system and activate the DD imedeiateley on jumpin, there is no warning, no cap recharge time, by the time you see the cyno you have about 5 seconds to warp out before the DD go's off. I guess i agree about killing the fighters though, that said, it is a Lame and Boreing way to end an even fight before it even began, that is the OP's point - that DD's are very Not Fun, stuff that isent fun is bad in any game. -
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:12:00 - [25] Originally by: DHB WildCat Titans DD and blob warfare If this makes EvE boring for you then do _not_ leave EvE, instead go find another corp. Some pilots change/adapt to keep EvE as a fun hobby, and some other fail to adapt and leave. Those who fail to adapt becomes victim of evolutionÖ EvE became boring for me, so I changed corp and now we have small gang PvP all the time and great fights. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Alski Originally by: Kerfira Your FC failed in spotting the enemy titan pilot in system and take appropriate action. His fault!! Build your own titan, and you'll have the same advantage.... o...k... I think mabey your under the impression that the Titans doomday use cap energy or something... It doesent. The Titan can cyno in from a remote system and activate the DD imedeiateley on jumpin, there is no warning, no cap recharge time, by the time you see the cyno you have about 5 seconds to warp out before the DD go's off. I guess i agree about killing the fighters though, that said, it is a Lame and Boreing way to end an even fight before it even began, that is the OP's point - that DD's are very Not Fun, stuff that isent fun is bad in any game. Your FC has from the second the FIRST cyno goes up until 15 seconds after the DD is fired to get his people out. Plenty of time unless he's not good at his job..... General advice: Stop whining!
Eteon Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Valrandir Originally by: DHB WildCat Titans DD and blob warfare If this makes EvE boring for you then do _not_ leave EvE, instead go find another corp. Some pilots change/adapt to keep EvE as a fun hobby, and some other fail to adapt and leave. Those who fail to adapt becomes victim of evolutionÖ EvE became boring for me, so I changed corp and now we have small gang PvP all the time and great fights. Gotta agree with that. I was in a 0.0 only corp and alliance for a while on different characters and to be honest, it was extremely boring. Waiting in pos, 100+ players fleets, unbearable lag and the ever-present wait. So instead of quitting I went to the YARRRR side and I've been enjoying every single minute of it.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:23:00 - [28] Edited by: Alski on 03/05/2007 18:23:33 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Alski Originally by: Kerfira Your FC failed in spotting the enemy titan pilot in system and take appropriate action. His fault!! Build your own titan, and you'll have the same advantage.... o...k... I think mabey your under the impression that the Titans doomday use cap energy or something... It doesent. The Titan can cyno in from a remote system and activate the DD imedeiateley on jumpin, there is no warning, no cap recharge time, by the time you see the cyno you have about 5 seconds to warp out before the DD go's off. I guess i agree about killing the fighters though, that said, it is a Lame and Boreing way to end an even fight before it even began, that is the OP's point - that DD's are very Not Fun, stuff that isent fun is bad in any game. Your FC has from the second the FIRST cyno goes up until 15 seconds after the DD is fired to get his people out. Plenty of time unless he's not good at his job..... Wrong. Haveing seen it first hand, and haveing gotten screenshots (see above) you can't really argue, this is what happened. T-20 seconds - enemy frig jumps in T-15 seconds - we're all hammering away at his hull T-10 seconds - cyno go's up T-5 seconds - Titan on overview T-0 seconds - we're watching the begining of the DD effect, getting about 10 frames a second and the UI is lagging like a *****. T+5 seconds - we're all in pods. Say it with me now.... Ten... Seconds... "Plenty of time" if your allready alligned to warp out mabey, last time i checked it wasent exactley SOP to allign for warpout when a single frig jumps in. But anyway, enough argueing game mechanics here, the OP's point is that Titans ruin peoples fun by removeing good fights... or any fights for that matter. Personley haveing only been DD'd twice, i'm not that fussed about them right now, however when all the major alliances have several of them, it will effect the game on a massive scale. -
lofty29 Athanasius Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Adaris As has already been said a cyno would take 5-10 minutes to launch before a DDD blast comes through it, giving you ample time (unless your in a bubble) to run like the wind. Why does everybody think this? A cyno goes up instantly, and the titan can fire instantly through it. Only time theyd have to run would be the 10 - 15 second charge up time. --- My sig has gone into exile
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2007.05.03 18:36:00 - [30] tbh all I'm concearend is what new toys CCP will come up with when finished training titan5. I really hope for deadstars so we can bypass pos-warfare and just atomize that pesky stations. :)

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