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Hooch Flux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.04 15:41:00 - [151] Originally by: Vitrael Originally by: ry ry ironically, the deathstar was killed by something smaller than a frigate class ship. Yeah, now there's a thought, we'll just fire our blasters at the Titan's exhaust pipes, which lead straight to some gigantic pillar of energy, which subsequently causes the entire thing to go kablooey in about as long as it takes for Han Solo to fly out. And to think, The Rebel Alliance claimed to be the good guys, do you realize how many independant contractors died when that thing went up! I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.05.04 15:45:00 - [152] "Now, like all great plans my strategy is so simple an idiot could've devised it. On my command all ships will line up and fly directly into the alien death cannons, clogging them with wreckage!" - Zapp Brannigan
Blaxxor Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2007.05.04 16:02:00 - [153] Originally by: DHB WildCat Titans- The soluion to the major comlaint that all Eve players have.... LAG. However it has created an ever greater problem. Note please that titans do not affect my game play so this is as unbiased opinion as one can produce. Several players that I have known since I began the game, talk about the old days. Thier cruise missle kessys, duel afterburner crows, and so on. They tell tales of fights with no lag and when the eve population was only around 10,000 players. There have come nerfs, and changes. Ships added like capitals (carriers, and dreads). They tell of how painful pos warfare is, and how they wish it was like the days where you could just shoot an enemies station, and force them to defend it and thus get a good fight, instead of the enemy hiding in a pos shield. But through all this they have stayed with the game, enjoyed playing it and have never really thought ill of EVE. Until now. The supercapital class ship. Imagine if you will a normal day in an alliance players life. You log on thinking of mining for fortune or joining a roaming gang to fulfill your pvp needs. Then your fc says we need to defend a pos, or go take on down. You think okay defending the alliance is good, Im in. 4 hours later sitting on the gate waiting to jump in. Thinking jeez this is boring and Im tired. 2 more hours pass, FC "okay jump." Jump in, begin shooting lag in managable with slight module hesitation. Think ooo the pretty bubbles. Then the enemy fleet warp outs. A cov-ops uncloaks and sets a cyno, the screen goes black / white / whatever. Your entire fleet goes pop. Then everyone on ts goes this sucks. So after 6 hours of planning and waiting you get 20 seconds of fight followed by your entire fleet going pop, because one dude pressed one button. Because of this several people I know are leaving the game, it is no longer fun for them, and I do believe that after titans become more popular and this incident becomes more frequent, that thousands will follow, and eve will no longer exist. Eliminate titans from the game WildCat 100/100 points , THX BE that you say this i hope some will hear you.
Vladimir Norkoff The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.05.04 16:27:00 - [154] Originally by: Kerfira "How do you trap a Titan that's about to cyno out.....?" The answer should be bloody obvious, but most people seem to turn off their brain when in 'whine' mode.... "You kill the CYNO character!!!" (yes, this has been done before with other capitals) Yes, it requires work (oh noes, we want our easy titan kill)! You have to bait your trap, you have to have (a lot of) scouts to spot the cyno char. You have to have a backup fleet to actually kill the Titan. You have to devote HOURS to setting it up, etc. Yes, it requires luck (oh noes, we want our safe gank-a-titan manual)! It'll work maybe 1 time out of 20. The other 19 times you may get DD'd for no effect. Yes, it requires the Titan pilot to be a little careless (oh noes, why can't I just kill it)!! smacks forehead.. I am sorry master, please do not forsake your humble clueless student.. Now that you have enlightened me, I do indeed see that it is patently obvious - Kill the cyno.. (We will ignore the fact that you can indeed cyno in a POS and just run with your idiocy for the moment) So in addition to the 6 requirements that were pointed out earlier (great FC, 2 suicide fleets, utterly stupid opponents, & luck), we also need a fleet of scouts in every possible system that the Titan could cyno to.. Once we have them all set up, and the cyno guy triggers, all we have to do is have the scout in that system warp to the cyno carrier and kill him before the Titan pilot can press "cyno".. Let's see, so a quick align and warp to a spot is about 15-20 seconds (being very generous here), lock target 2-5 seconds, kill cyno guy 15 seconds.. So the Titan pilot only needs to not cyno for about 30 seconds or so... Ok that's do-able, since we're assuming he's "an utter and complete moron!!".. And since we have already determined that the opposing FC is also "an utter and complete moron!!" we know that they will only have 1 cyno carrier in range.. This is a great plan.. You are indeed a modern day Sun-Tzu.. I am honored to have learned from you.. (ie. You are an idiot.. Stop posting..)
lucentious	Posted - 2007.05.04 16:56:00 - [155] 1:You jump your fleet into enemy bubble camp,wait for a couple minutes for the gate to actually let you jump. 2:Their numbers/large bubbles/drones cause you to lag badly. 3:cyno goes up, but you don't see it because the server is lagging,not your pc, but the server itself as it cannot keep pace with the action. 4:DD is initiated,your frames per second stop because the server just dropped it's colon on the floor and isn't talking to you anymore. 5:You know something is up when the first person utters the f bomb. WOOT! gotta love it
TooSlow Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.05.04 17:00:00 - [156] Edited by: TooSlow on 04/05/2007 16:58:24 I also agree the Titan needs changes. How about a movement restriction also, say one cyno jump per 24 hour period making it possible for enemy fleets to avoid it. Also make everything used on the titan a very pricey function fuel wise making any titan operation a alliance supported action. A titan pilot and cyno frig should not be all that is needed to kill hundreds in seconds. If things with the titan do not change EVE is headed down a dark road. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Signed, T.
Veng3ance Illicit Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.04 17:07:00 - [157] Nerf the Doomsday (as in, take it out of the game) Don't get rid of the titan. It still has many other purposes, and could give other benefits besides insta-popping an entire fleet. Its uses (Non-Doomsday) 1) Logistics with the wormhole 2) Gang Bonuses A few ideas to balance the nerf of the DDD. 1) Give LARGE bonuses to turret tracking, ROF, and damage for the Titan so it can use 8x X-Large guns to pew pew battleships more effectively. 2) Give the titan a similiar to dread "siege mode" so it can take on more capitals in a fight, and also help with pos warefare.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.04 18:02:00 - [158] Quote: So after 6 hours of planning and waiting you get 20 seconds of fight followed by your entire fleet going pop, because one dude pressed one button. Sounds like wild fun, eh? Not. Except for the one guy. And to think that they claim to want want slower combat, I mean wtf...
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.04 22:34:00 - [159] So many unidentified goons posting here... Just think of titans as a lag removal ship. They are perfectly balanced when you factor in the lag from a goonzerg. --- Markly > why are taking me weldspai? Screenshots FPDoMS - Ore Relocation & Ship Removal Services
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.04 23:05:00 - [160] Edited by: Ben Derindar on 04/05/2007 23:02:31 Wildcat makes a fair point when he talks about people reminiscing about things like the cruise kessie, dual AB crows, wideboys, whatever. But I think he forgets the reason why people loved those concepts: They were all overpowered. Now, people are arguing that titans are overpowered. In terms of capabilities, I disagree. Titans are CCP's incentive to its subscribers to not blob up, for us to take responsibility to reduce lag ourselves by not giving titans any worthwhile fleet-sized targets to DD to begin with. Ultimately, titans will be the things people train for so that they need not use them - the current problem should solve itself with time. But, in terms of accessibility, I do agree. Titans are the key to power in conquerable 0.0 right now. And that's where they should be restricted to. My solution: disallow titans from operating in NPC sovereignty 0.0. Anyone who doesn't like them can just go free-for-all in there, then, without fear. /Ben EDIT: grammar How to fix Eve
Dak Mithril Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.05 00:47:00 - [161] Originally by: Kerfira I do not at the moment have the desire to PvP with my main... Whys that?
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.05.05 02:13:00 - [162] There is a simple principle in game mechanics: The bigger the advantage, the bigger the disadvantage should be. So what does that mean ragarding titans? Titans should be very vulnerable after firing the DDD. - no jump for a certain amount of time - low cap - ? Does anybody remember the Bab5 sequel Crusade? The Excalibur had kind of a superweapon, but after it's been fired the ship was pretty helpless. That should apply to titans. _________________________________ - People are people wherever you go -
Symbolic Slought	Posted - 2007.05.05 02:48:00 - [163] I havn't been playing but for about a month or so now and I have been thinking about this DD weapon. Wondering what will happen once more and more titans are in the game. I havn't seen a titan in game or anything but I can't really understand why they have a weapon like the DD that can kill all of a fleet..? I know it is said because of the "blob" but I wouldn't think that would be enough of a reason to have a weapon that can kill so many ships with a press of 1 button. Though I am sure it will get nerfed once enough titans are in the game.. at least I hope so. Wonder what Eve would be like 4-5 years from now if the titan stays the same. All of 0.0 would be based on the DD then, I would think.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.05 04:02:00 - [164] titans should remain as they are until every alliance has at least 10 titans (see 50 for bob) and three times that much in backup in case they die (lol a titan dying) (see 5x as much for bob) and then eventually titans should be allowed all the way up to 1.0 and npc stations should be made destroyable or allow them to be taken over then remove security status and allow everyone to setup "empire" wherever they please good plan ! ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Spenz Gallente FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.05 04:42:00 - [165] I think that they should reduce the DDD remote cyno damage by at least 50%. It doesnt sound very logical that an energy wave flying several AU's through a subspace tunnel would emerge with 100% of its energy intact. That is the very LEAST they could do. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.05 11:43:00 - [166] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Stuff... I already admitted I didn't know you could create a Cyno inside a POS (every time we've used them they'd been outside it, Malachon explained why). However, just because Cyno's are made too secure this way doesn't mean that Titans are at fault. They Cyno generation is (which I think should be changed immediately along with the remote DD...). As for your comment about 'needing a fleet of scouts'..... That is exactly the point. Killing a Titan SHOULD - NOT - BE - EASY!!!! You want your easy 'gank-a-titan' manual. Sorry, Titans need to have a fine balance between their cost, their effect and their vulnerability. Atm, the cost and effect are reasonably balanced (imho), and the vulnerability needs a slight boost by taking away the two (I thought it was only one before) things that make them TOO hard to catch, that being the remote DD and Cyno's inside shields. Yes, you'll still need a smart FC and smart pilots (sorry if you're short on these), you still need organisation, you still need scouting, you still need to sacrifice probably a lot of ships, you still need to be lucky, you still need to try over and over again, AND (most important) you still need to put in a LOT of effort!!!! If you're not prepared to work as hard as the people who built the titan, I'm sorry, but you're not meant to succeed when going against them. Titans ARE and SHOULD be hard to kill. There should also be a fearsome price to pay for attempting to do so. Consider the harsh cost of loosing a titan, and I'm not talking about the ISK price here. EVERY SINGLE ALLIANCE (ASCN, LV, D2) who'd lost a Titan has crumbled shortly thereafter (yes, I consider D2 crumbled too). That makes killing a Titan an even bigger I-Win card than the Titan itself! I see an opponents Titan as a challenge to overcome. Too bad you don't like challenges.... General advice: Stop whining!
Ecatherina W Gallente Core Domination Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2007.05.05 12:15:00 - [167] Originally by: Winterblink Really what you're asking for is removing DDDs, not Titans. Titans can serve other purposes than going pwnkakke all over a fleet. Signed... take out the DD and make the Titan a huuuuuge arse carrier of BS? ;-) Kath *** Ecatherina W *** Empress of the Multiverse DGAF Newbie Guide to Everything Eve
Loftur sterki The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.05 13:59:00 - [168] I totaqlly agree about removing those Doomsday bombs from the game. Imagine the entertainment for 60 people who just spent billions of isk on ships and modules and hours of preparing and jumping for a good decent fight if the whole gang is wiped out by a single player with 1 single hit on a F1 button. Its totally insane for ccp to have this dd ingame and not very clever. It cost more plp to stay in empire terrified by those 20 Titanpilots or how many they are nowadays, causing more lag there. And in addition has made this game to take step backwards in the entertaining thrill we all get by old school fleet fights. I hope im not alone there but thats why i keep payin for the subscription but not to take apart in some politcal struggle between people who wants to "own" a part of an virtual cyperspace as odd as it sounds. Grumpy old Viking
Dregann Amarr Trading Company New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.05.05 14:52:00 - [169] Strongly agree with DHB.
Fafnir Drake Gallente Boob Heads Phoenix Supremacy	Posted - 2007.05.05 14:55:00 - [170] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 03/05/2007 21:09:24 Originally by: Caol To the person saying all you need is a sharp FC, what happens when you have to fight, when you alliance outposts are at risk and the POSes are coming out of reinforced? Ok, if you didn't forsee the events or haven't enough dreads, carriers and support or are not well organised enough then perhaps you deserve to lose the outpost. You you would still want to give your all defending that investment your alliance and you had spent time and isk over to make..wouldn't you? Take this same situation when each side perhaps, as Welsh said, has a number of titans on each side. Will you be able to participate in such a battle at all if you don't fly a capital ship? Will your corp be able to participate if it doesn't have a strong industrial backbone able to churn out captial ships to replace the inevitable losses. I assume you meant me..... If you don't have the ability to fight for what is yours, its only yours until someone stronger than you takes a liking to it. Tough, but thats life in 0.0 EVE. Mostly, the big alliances dont attack small fry, unless they make a nuisance of themselves. And I question this.... Why is it that EVERY1 wants to take on capitals with small ships??? That's stupid (and the main reason you die)! Capitals fight capitals, fleet ships fight fleet ships. If you don't have a capital fleet, you're not big enough to take on an alliance that has them in actions (like POS warfare) that requires capital ships. Its the same as in a schoolyard. The 1st graders can not take on the 10th graders.... And to all the doom'n'gloom sayers.... Look at any alliance killboard and tally up the kills. How many are made by capitals, and how many by fleet ships. You'll find that the large majority is fleet ships fighting fleet ships. Personally I don't think this'll change much, at least in the foreseeable future. If Titan numbers BECOMES a problem, I'm sure CCP will take steps. However, atm its not a problem. The only problem is people who can't adapt to a Titan containing EVE. Capital ships are good, but they don't have the versatility of normal fleet units. A good FC realises this and uses each part of his fleet what they're good at. The bad FC just orders everything he has to charge the enemy! On your comment on DD's frying dreads, look in the CAOD thread. I think someone figured it'd take 32+ DD's to kill dreads..... Adapt and overcome, don't whine! I highlighted the area where you are somewhat wrong . I'm in tenth grade, and have you ever had a 1st grader throw a temper tantrum near you and starts immitating his favorite character out of anime. All those quick punches start to sting. Esp if the little kid hit's the wrong spot.... wince Get a little kid mad at you, whose fist's fly at the height of the confluence of your anatomy, and I think you'll see my point. ------ "A wise man once told me never to argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.05 14:59:00 - [171] Edited by: Aramendel on 05/05/2007 14:59:27 Originally by: Kerfira Titans ARE and SHOULD be hard to kill. The are not "hard" to kill they are impossible to kill unless their pilot screws up. As are motherships. Every single one of the current (online) supercapital kills was due to bugs (client desyncs) or pilot error of the mothership pilot (Helen, for example got too***y and did not jump out after more and more people appeared). Not wanting to rely on a game bug or a pilot error as SOLE way to kill these ships != want them easy to kill. A titan who uses guerillia style DD bombing runs is just as impossible to catch as a titan who sits beyond a POS shield. You do not even have time to jump in your "kill fleet" after he bombed your "bait fleet", he'll be gone by then. Do you have even a clue what kind of cap recharge times you can get in an avatar? Less than 20 seconds. 2-0. Twenty. Originally by:** Fafnir Drake The 1st graders can not take on the 10th graders.... 10 first graders will do very bad stuff to one 10th grader.
Torm Ilmater No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.05.05 16:00:00 - [172] I've only two things to say about titans: This and this Props to TheKiller8 for summerizing it all in a very succinct manner.
Fafnir Drake Gallente Boob Heads Phoenix Supremacy	Posted - 2007.05.05 16:01:00 - [173] Edited by: Fafnir Drake on 05/05/2007 15:57:06 Like I said, lol. I said I highlighted the area that was wrong. You get hit in a certain spot by someone, 1st grade or not, you are gonna be hating things. ------ "A wise man once told me never to argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."
Torm Ilmater No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.05.05 16:45:00 - [174] Originally by: Kerfira Just because something hasn't been done doesn't prove impossibility. If this was the case, then until 1969 it was impossible to walk on the moon, and then the laws of probability changed. Well, technically until 1969 it was impossible to walk on the moon because the proper technology and training that made getting to & landing on the moon possible wasn't all there yet.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.05 16:52:00 - [175] Edited by: Kerfira on 05/05/2007 16:48:04 Originally by: Torm Ilmater Originally by: Kerfira Just because something hasn't been done doesn't prove impossibility. If this was the case, then until 1969 it was impossible to walk on the moon, and then the laws of probability changed. Well, technically until 1969 it was impossible to walk on the moon because the proper technology and training that made getting to & landing on the moon possible wasn't all there yet. Nah, I'm pretty sure they could've done it by '68.... Getting the guy back is an entirely different matter, though Seriously though, if something is 'Impossible', it means it can't be done, period! The term 'Impossible' doesn't cover 'Hasn't been done yet!'... General advice: Stop whining!
Biosman ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.05 17:15:00 - [176] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Malachon Draco I have bother fought with and against Titans, and indeed there is a problem. Like someone said before, it doesn't matter how much it cost, if its indestructable by normal means (and note that the 2 titans which were destroyed, would, under the current circumstances not have died that way now POSses allow you to logout without warping off). There are several options here: 1. Upgrade the guns on the Titan, nerf the DD. If you give a titan 8 highslots for capital weapons, and a bonus that they do each as much damage as a dread in siege (i.e. something like an automatic 1000-2000% percent damage bonus on capital size weapons), you have a formidable gun platform. In compensation for nerfing the DD to do a third of the damage it does now. 2. Nerf the EW immunity of titans. It makes it impossible to pin them down. I would suggest giving them 15 warpcore strength as a replacement, making it require a substantial fleet to lock them down, but certainly within the realm of possibility. 3. Alternatively to nerfing titans as described under 1, its also an option of course for CCP to release T2 BS quickly. If they make the T2 BS a ship with high resists and lots of armor, that will also have the effect of nerfing the DD effectively. , number 1 is actually a pretty good idea. Swap the dd for turret's that do horrendous damage, a turret unique to titan's perhap's. Does 'omg where did my bs go' damage and slower rof to accompany it. Voila, titan can join fleet battle's, 1 shotting battleship's and joining in on cap vs cap fight's. Best idea ever,the doomsday can only be activated when the titan has to jump out if it's in serious trouble,Aureas sweet voice is heard "Titan Pilot ***** has activated the doomsday device,it will detonate in T minus 20 seconds,enjoy your afterlife"
Vladimir Norkoff The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.05.05 18:22:00 - [177] Originally by: Kerfira You want your easy 'gank-a-titan' manual. Sorry, Titans need to have a fine balance between their cost, their effect and their vulnerability. ...blah blah blah... Yes, you'll still need a smart FC and smart pilots (sorry if you're short on these), you still need organisation, you still need scouting, you still need to sacrifice probably a lot of ships, you still need to be lucky, you still need to try over and over again, AND (most important) you still need to put in a LOT of effort!!!! If you're not prepared to work as hard as the people who built the titan, I'm sorry, but you're not meant to succeed when going against them. (More self justification) I see an opponents Titan as a challenge to overcome. Too bad you don't like challenges.... Unfortunately Kerfira the only person that seems to be running around pointing out how "It's not really all that complicated", is you.. You are the person who is apparently attempting to make the "'gank-a-titan' manual".. The rest of us have already done the math and come up with the correct answer - A Titan cannot be killed unless the pilot is a complete nitwit.. Most alliances (and even corps) capable of building a Titan do not seem to entrust the ships to complete nitwits.. Your brilliant plans all seem to operate under the assumption that the Titan pilot is a nitwit who just ebayed the character.. That's not a plan, it's wishful thinking.. For some bizarre reason, you seem to think that the people who have organized enough, worked hard enough, and played long enough to build and pilot a Titan are somehow completely incompetent.. That they will not have scouts, not gather intel, not have support fleets, and not have back-up plans.. I'm sorry, but hoping that your opponent collosally f's-up is not a strategicly sound plan - it's desperation.. You apparently like to stylize yourself as rising above the whinage and thinking out problems.. That is certainly a laudable goal.. However you are NOT thinking.. You are babbling.. Your posts throughout this thread have been simplistic and lacking in any real depth or content.. You take your own assumptions as fact, and you completely ignore the tactics and realities of the game.. Your plan will kill an alliance far quicker than losing a Titan will.. You are indeed an idiot, or at the very least a flamebait troll..
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.05 21:30:00 - [178] Edited by: Aramendel on 05/05/2007 21:28:14 Originally by: Kerfira Note that almost ALL kills in EVE are due to pilot error in one form or another. Either you didn't scan, or you didn't scout, or you thought you could take someone on and was wrong etc. Why should Titan kills be any different??? They shouldn't be. However for titans and to some smaller extend motherships the pilot errors have to be much much bigger for anything to heppen to them. If in a normal ship you see a force which can break your tank you'll have to get away. Or die. Supercapitals however can happily stay and fight for quite some time because preventing them from fleeing is much more trickier. The margin of error before they are in a situation they cannot flee from is much much higher. In your own words, "Why should Titan kills be any different???" And for titans its even better than for motherships. Because unlike them they do not need to stay and fight to do damage. They do it in one second and then are of no use at the front line for one hour. Which means that the best titan fit is to fill all your lows and meds with cap power relays and cap rechargers which makes the only realistic tactic which can stop a mothership (and therefore a titan too) from fleeing -nossing/neuting them below jump cap- completely ineffective vs them. Because the amount of neutships you have to send vs them to beat they cap recharge would crash the node they are on (insert "thats the fault of the node" comment). Assuming you could get them on the titan before it recharged to jumpcap and got out after the DD. Which you won't. Quote:* Thanks for disproving yourself. So yes, Titans are killable.... Please quote me where I said simply "Titans are unkillable". Train up your reading comprehenshion skills. Everything is in the end "killable". If it's controller gets an heart attack while piloting it it's certainly killable. What really matters is if it is killable under realistic condiations (aka not one chance out of 100.000) and with equal effort on both sides (aka not twice the assets and 50 times the pilots to counter it). Titans right now are under realistic conditions simply not killable. Unless the pilot screw up in a MAJOR way. Like "being afk for 30 minutes without cloaking" major. Quote: Just because something hasn't been done doesn't prove impossibility. If this was the case, then until 1969 it was impossible to walk on the moon, and then the laws of probability changed. It was actually impossible before. Because, guess what, the techology for that did not exist before. Rocket science as we know it only started to develop in the 30s for example. Even if something is possible in theory it still stays in practise completely impossible until you have the right tools to do it. Right now you do not have the right tools to stop a titan from fleeing. General advice: start thinking!
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:45:00 - [179] I'd like to see the DD turned into a mega cannon for nuking POSes. Would make planned ops doable and make POS warfare that much less sucky. FLAMING When you can't think of logical arguments and are too dumb to STFU
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.05 22:54:00 - [180] Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 05/05/2007 22:53:35 To sum up... If ur opponant has a titan, say goodbye to any fights you were expecting. My suggestion, Get rid of remote detonation, and make it so for everytime this is fired it has to stay stationary for 10minutes. The any alliance with a decent sized dread fleet has the ability to take one out.

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