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Dolika
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.05.05 21:16:00 -
[1]
With the advent of lootable freighter wrecks freighter gankage is in a steep rise and within weeks the economy in eve will start hurting badly because everyone and their mom will be camping gates to trade hubs because freighter poppage is by far the biggest isk maker there is. Forget about mining, ratting. Get a team of your 20 alliance pilots into dominixes and one in a freighter and you have an unstoppable force. On a friday evening tens of freighters pass the gates every hour and in one hour there's boud to be one filled to the brink with goodes worth to pop.
Fact is the prices of T2 items will again skyrocket for sure. Item availability on the market will vastly decrease. Who wants EvE markets to go back into the stone age?
I propose CCP to boost freighter HP to be in line with other capital ships and in line with the cost invlved in building that ship. Give them fitting slots but make them so they cannot fit cargo expanders.
Other way to go is to stop freighters dropping cans.
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Draekas Darkwater
Sanctum Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.05 21:27:00 -
[2]
well the T2 manufacturers would love it I assume.
I agree its all rather silly, but the game is full of such game mechanic tactics/exploits/ect, whatever you want to call them.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.05.05 22:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: dalman on 05/05/2007 22:54:38 Give it up already - you've been whining enough about your loss.
And you constantly manage to not mention the fact that you yourself "exploit" the game-mechanics even more by keep this freighter alt of yours in an NPC corp to dodge wardeclarations.
Considering that, this new freighter ganking is on the contrary one of the best things to happen to the game. So sign up your alt to your corp, have your corpmates scout/defend you - just like it's supposed to be.
And your choice of topic has to be the worst ever. Why are you buying and flying freighters if they're not worth the isk they cost? Obviously you'd be flying a normal industrial in that case... Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Petrothian Tong
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.05 22:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: dalman Give it up already - you've been whining enough about your loss.
And you constantly manage to not mention the fact that you yourself "exploit" the game-mechanics even more by keep this freighter alt of yours in an NPC corp to dodge wardeclarations.
Considering that, this new freighter ganking is on the contrary one of the best things to happen to the game. So sign up your alt to your corp, have your corpmates scout/defend you - just like it's supposed to be.
to be fair.. EVEN if he got corp mates guarding him,
they killed his freighter in 38 sec in high sec...
corp mates can try to shield transfer to him, BUT.. 38 sec ... what? 2 cycles on the shield transfer....
it is NOT likely going to save him... it just makes it so instead of 18-19 domi needed, the ganker need 20-21...
thats it.. is not gonna save him. so think before saying the "get a fleet" thing...
-Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.05.05 23:08:00 -
[5]
Yea, surely a scout wouldn't have noticed 15 domis sitting at a gate in a 0.5 system? Until Dolika can conjure fourth a reason for why (s)he is in an NPC corp, it's a case of "exploiting" game mechanics vs "exploiting" game mechanics. Why (s)he would get any sympathi at all is beyond me. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.05 23:09:00 -
[6]
The only thing that could possibly help would be 2-3 carriers with capital reps riding shotgun, but this is obviously not possible (if you disagree, Ill take some of what yorue smoking cause its def the good **** ).
Solution is to give freighters some slots, if theyre going to be killable like anything else, they need the ability to fend people off for a bit longer. Im thinking 2 lowslots and a slight base cargo capacity nerf and base speed beef (to counter those who would fit 2x xpanders without 'nerfing' them overall), so you could throw on two bulkheads and be FAR more survivable. Or two OD's for that extra speed whilst AFK flying, or istabs for getting out of tricky spots in a hurry. Sure, someone could still gank you but itd take far, far longer and the number of gankers needed to do it right (60+?) would become pointless outside of grudge killings. I got no problem with gankable freighters but right now its far too easy to do with very cheaply fitted suicide drone ships. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Artu Stargazer
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Posted - 2007.05.06 01:30:00 -
[7]
Low slot on freighter: T2 Damage Control. Effective HP goes up about 150%. If the freighters were given lowslots (but no expanders), I'll bet these would become standard equipment on every freighter that wasn't using speed mods. That and some WCS, but WCS are useless in a gank situation, a few won't do jack to stop 20+ points.
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Digital Anarchist
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Posted - 2007.05.06 04:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater well the T2 manufacturers would love it I assume.
T2 manufacturers are also those who sell them, I believe. But even if they wouldn't, increased reseller's cost comes back to manufacturers as decreased demand, which is not good for them.
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Dolika
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.05.06 08:49:00 -
[9]
Dalman... Let's see...Judging by your 260 kills on the KB youre a pvper and thus have no clue whatsoever writing about when you're writing about freighter operations and not active since december 30th btw so i doubt you're up to speed on EvE. Your corp appears to be a lowsec griefing corp so obviously you would like nothing else than easy kills on unsuspicious freighters in empire because that's your style of play. Fact also remains youre a part of a very vocal but very small part of the population in EvE.
The prices of everything will go up and market availability will go down in trade hubs so people will be forced to once again fly around to find what they need instead of driving to a supermarket ( Jita, Amarr, Rens...) and buying what they need at competitive prices. That is if CCP will not fix this "feature" lightning fast.
Even if Freighters get double or quadruple HP they have now, this means they will still die within 1 or 2 MINUTES max to a 15 Dominix group that has want to kill it in a CONCORD sanctioned war or in lowsec or in 0.0. So boosting freighters to be in line with other capital ships in any other way than in build cost will not prevent anyone from getting a legitimate kill. It is a Billion isk ship after all...and it takes 38 seconds to pop. Something is not right here.
No doubt your corp has already begun gathering dominix pilots to do strikes at unsuspicious freighters.
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Blaxxor
Deep Space Exploration Squad
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Posted - 2007.05.06 08:59:00 -
[10]
No , nothing will happen. It was your mistake , you put in to much isk in the cargo so you was an target nothing more was happen. And the T2 price wont rise , because not evry body need and use Freigther .
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.05.06 10:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dolika Dalman... Let's see...Judging by your 260 kills on the KB youre a pvper and thus have no clue whatsoever writing about when you're writing about freighter operations and not active since december 30th btw so i doubt you're up to speed on EvE. Your corp appears to be a lowsec griefing corp so obviously you would like nothing else than easy kills on unsuspicious freighters in empire because that's your style of play. Fact also remains youre a part of a very vocal but very small part of the population in EvE.
No doubt your corp has already begun gathering dominix pilots to do strikes at unsuspicious freighters.
Thanks for your background check on me... Yes, I'm not playing atm, that's why I'm still in this corp which is closed/inactive. After 4 years in EVE I've killed lots of stuff. But not more than 2 or 3 players in lowsec, which were hostiles anyway. If you think I've no clue what I'm talking about, you're wrong. I've been there organising mining ops in the old days - when you had to mine 20 jumps away from a station. Then you needed some players to kill rats spawning in the belt, some mining, a load of players flying haulers, and some more to scout/protect the 20 jumps between the site and station. And I've been scouting/protecting freighter runs many times as well, between empire, stain, omist, curse etc.
Originally by: Dolika The prices of everything will go up and market availability will go down in trade hubs so people will be forced to once again fly around to find what they need instead of driving to a supermarket ( Jita, Amarr, Rens...) and buying what they need at competitive prices. That is if CCP will not fix this "feature" lightning fast.
And that is a very good thing. Do not think I've not been there. I started as Caldari, and my first corp was based in the very south of amarr space. As there were no highways, I had to move all my stuff the 40+ jumps. Whenever I needed to buy a ship, there was no Caldari ships for sale in amarr space. I had to do the 40 + 40 jumps back and forth to Caldari space to find the ship I wanted (and at that time Concord barely protected you, it was easy to kill in a 0.8 system without Concord killing you). And it was good! The highways was a result of the "CS-kids" and in many ways destroyed EVE. Look at how the other poster up there talks about "afk flying of freighters". D'oh, no wonder that T2 BPOs cost what they do! There's no work involved in the production mechanics of EVE, you do most everything afk - so the only real cost in production is the BPO. It's not a bad thing that players need to actually do something to get isk! Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.06 11:40:00 -
[12]
In its infinite wisdom CCP wants 4 hour, forty jump freighter operations which require 40 battleship escorts. This must represent what they think is PvP in empire.
The ability to kill a CAPITAL ship with no real consequences must be nerfed. A one billion isk ship that can be ganked with complete impunity in "secure space" is an easy target for gank squads. The fact a capital ship can now apparently be taken down in less than a minute makes an absolute mockery of the hit point increases. But I am sure CCP thought through all this when they said that a freighter will now drop cans (the sarcasm is intended).
Freighters need slots - one high, one medium and one low will be a perfect balance. damage control for the low; ecm burst for the mids and faction smart bomb for the highs and all of a sudden Dominix drone gank squads are nuetered. To take one out in empire will require something special.........just the way it ought to be.
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.06 12:58:00 -
[13]
Yes, because when I'm being suicide ganked in a high-security system, surrounded by a flock of Concord ships, I need a smartbomb and an ECM burst to keep me safe. Good thinking.
What freighters need is a strontium-consuming "reinforced mode" module that makes them invulnerable and stationary for one minute, with a ten-minute recharge time. Enough time for the escort fleet to beat back attackers in 0.0 or low-sec, or for Concord to mop up gankers in high-sec.
Problem solved.
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Dolika
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.05.06 13:58:00 -
[14]
Thanks for a trip down the memory lane dalman. I agree. Logistics were tedius 2 years ago and the comodity prices were much higher than today and the availability was also much much worse.
The EvE population wanted easier logistics and we got conquerable stations in 0.0. Suddenly the life got a whole lot easier in EvE. With the advent of freighters the life got even easier. I am sue you were not enjoying your 80 jump trips around empire because it was a sheer waste of time tbh. You say you have done logistical work but obviously you havent learned from it. I doubt needing to have 30 people on the MO but only 5 of them mining was a lot of fun. Let's face it: Traveling form point a to point B has been a MAJOR pain since forever. CCP finally gave us warp to 0km as a result of years of complaints from the major part of EvE population while only a small minority of lowsec pirates were able to hold off the change for at least a year by spamming posts against it.
Saying that T2 production requires no work says you havent done it never ever so you have no clue of the amount of work that goes into keeping 10 production slots filled and raw products bought at normal prices that in the end when you again have to sell the products yield a decent profit. NOBODY can afford to haul it's products into 20 different regional markets and still retain a RL job / wife / college. Not even two people can do it. Well maybe they could but they would be boring themselves out of their mind with non stop freighter travel which is itself an extremely boring thing to do.
To fill 10 slots you have to: Buy and haul nearly EVERY WEEK
1. 8 different mineral types 2. 10 T1 variant BPOs which you have to r&d and produce 3. 10 R.A.M BPOs and produce these which takes about 26 minutes to build one 4. 10 R.d.b. BPOs if you want to improve ME and PE on your T2 BPOs 5. ~35 T2 component BPOs which you have to produce on a regular basis. You can buy T2 comps from market but that's even more work 6. 10 different NPC products ( construction blocks, guidance sytsems, robotics ) 7. 12 different POS products like ferrogel etc. to produce T2 components and T2 products themselves 8. Your finished products to at least THREE sales centers to be able to sell them all in time before the next batches come out and will have isk to BUY&HAUL MORE of 1-7. All this time you have to balance your wallet so you don't have too much component A but lack component B becasue the production grinds o a halt really fast. Also forget buying yearly supply of everything you need because most cannot be bought in such amounts anyway anywhere. Besides it would brake your wallet 10 times over.
Mind that about 99% of the T2 BPO's are not isk printing machines anymore.
To keep 10 T2 BPO's in production you have to have 2 accounts so a single player can realistically produce up to 7 T2 items which takes about 40 hours a week of playtime so don't come here and tell me production takes basically the same amount of time as the subscription renewal does.
T2 production is almost like a job and the gratification an industrialist seeks in EvE is to be the best businessman(woman) in EvE. While a pvper seeks gratification in killing his "enemy". We, in the carebear guild wish to supply those that want to pew pew with all the toys you want at a competitive price. In return all we wish is to be left alone. I am not saying: make freighters like Titans. but give them a fighting chance at least. The way it stands they are just flying targets EVERYWHERE no matter the sytsem security. I agree with the need to escort freighters in lowsec and 0.0 but flying a 15 BS shotgun protection gang in secure empire to prevent an atack on a NEUTRAL ship is just insane.
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Xeron Silverblade
Esthar Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.06 20:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Xeron Silverblade on 06/05/2007 20:10:54 i like the idea of full invulnerability for a short ammount of time so concord (in highsec) can kick in or (in 0.0) it's useless making freighters primary..
anyway.. a boost in hp or in ressis (maybe with the freighter skill lvl) would do fine as well... it IS useless flying a 1b ship to lowsec - even in highsec if it is that breakable.. and bringing a 20BS escort equipped with remote reppers/shield transfers for 3 jumps is pointless either way...
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Gnord
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Posted - 2007.05.06 20:34:00 -
[16]
Allow carriers and dreads to use regular stargates, and thus enter hisec. Keep the restriction on motherships and titans.
This may seem off topic to you, but I assure you it isn't. :D
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