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Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
5
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Posted - 2017.04.12 01:38:37 -
[31] - Quote
Damn, I guess I should have done that with exequrors instead of guardians. One sec. Not gonna do it as detailed again.
All Exequror lossmails from april 11th:
- 13 not counted (not logi fit or in two cases a gatecamp alt that I know) - 9 combat / ewar drones - 4 empty dronebay - 5 half a bay of logi drones, the other half was in space getting him on killmails or in bay and combat drones or used ewar modules to get on kills - 2 half a bay of logi drones, rest unknown - 3 half a bay of combat / ewar drones, rest unknown
Fact is, even in bonused ships the ones using logi drones are a minority. |
Gerald Mardiska
Comms Black Initiative Mercenaries
37
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 06:32:30 -
[32] - Quote
Easier way for logi to get on killmails
Uh....arebyoubserious...throw combat drones into drone bay...laumch combat drones from drone bay into space. Make sure you have hostile target locked and tell drones to engage hostile targets. So easy a 2 year old could do it. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1729
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Posted - 2017.04.12 10:22:49 -
[33] - Quote
Senjiu Kanuba wrote:...The Oneiros has the larger dronebay and more mid slots to fit ewar for example but is a lot less tanky which is why it's used a lot less in larger fleets, if at all.
Oneiros is not a good fleet boat which may have something to do with it. And both the Exequor and the Oneiros have the same bay size. Both of them are small gang logi ships. And the Oneiros is the better choice for battlecruiser and battleship roam while the Exequror is better as cruiser to battlecruiser logi.
I am sure the minmatar ones would the shield ones but since I like a math challenge, I even made an Osprey work solo.
Just so we are on the same page here, small gang means < 9 pilots.
Everything that exceeds the number of rows on my overview tab is a blobb or a good indicator to leave now.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3873
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Posted - 2017.04.12 11:32:15 -
[34] - Quote
Yes, people use logi drones well done. They are also sacrificing logi drones for combat and ewar drones if they want to get on kill mails, just like we told you. How is it necessary to turn every logi into a mini dominix when people are already doing what you think is so difficult.
And you should drop the sensor booster if you're that desperate to get on kill mails.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1219
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 13:56:41 -
[35] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:And why should you be taken seriously if you're afraid to post with your main? I never have and I never will understand this obsession of using your main character to post with. Ideas should be judged based on the idea itself, they should not be judged based on the character that was used to post it. Character age is rendered useless because we can buy and sell characters on a market place. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3298
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 14:27:24 -
[36] - Quote
Senjiu Kanuba wrote: I don't get the part about not using the keyboard but I think I get the general idea. It's true for small fleets when you know the two logi pilots you have with you. But it's hard to be appreciated when you're part of a logi cloud with 20+ logi in them and the Battleships die before you can lock them anyway (nevermind finishing a repair cycle). At least let the records show that you were there!
"Hey dude, remember that time where we were getting alpha'd off the field so fast logi were pretty much useless because we could not lock, let alone finish a cycle on the broadcast? Well, just for the record, I was there man. I was in the logi wing, trying uselessly to save your ship while you died in a single salvo completely preventing us from doing anything relevant." |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3298
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 14:28:13 -
[37] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:And why should you be taken seriously if you're afraid to post with your main? I never have and I never will understand this obsession of using your main character to post with. Ideas should be judged based on the idea itself, they should not be judged based on the character that was used to post it. Character age is rendered useless because we can buy and sell characters on a market place.
One of OP's argument was that lack of killboard stats when flying logi could prevent him from joining a corp... |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
656
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Posted - 2017.04.12 14:39:13 -
[38] - Quote
Jakob Dabrowski wrote:Hey,
I noticed on the stream today that you mentioned for the anti-headshot-ships that you're aware that they want to get on killmails too. That's great, one of the cool things about eve is that your actions have permanent consequences and one of those is that you can track your progress on killboards.
Logi have a similar problem. I'm aware that you can't give them more slots or fitting room because that would simply be used for better tank / ECCM / more cap. So we use drones, which is fine for small fights. In larger fights drones have a few disadvantages: The distances are bigger so the targets are often either outside of drone control range or the drones don't get there in time. Or they get smartbombed or die to PDS of a citadel. So you can use sentry drones. The problem with those is that you often have to leave them behind and when you fight somewhere else you don't have any of them left, because only the Oneiros (and Exequror) has the room to carry two of them in its drone bay.
So my suggestion is to increase the drone bay on logistic ships (to maybe 100m-¦) and increase the drone control range (by 25km or so). Maybe reduce the damage and EWar effectiveness of the drones by 20% or so to compensate, if you're worried that the logistics ships get too much versatility with that. I'm not really worried about logistics drones, I don't see them used very often outside of the alliance tournament. (And if they have the time to travel 80km to a target that needs repairs then they're probably not needed that desperately anyway)
No ... killboards are overrated.
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perseus skye
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2017.04.12 14:49:46 -
[39] - Quote
why do logi pilots care or want to be on killmails ? Think of it like a c.v and you are building up a profile ,while any corp you join or apply too will or should check your killboard so it's good for that and also it's good because it will simply bring more pilots to fly logi ships which is awesome
The argument most listed against this is why do I want a full and green killboard ? Is total junk , I do as many others care about my stats and want fair treatment for my fleet participation and time spent on the field in battle with other team members doing a mostly thankless job |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3298
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 15:05:52 -
[40] - Quote
perseus skye wrote:
Edit - I Am not a killboard poser ,I do not require a badge for every kill made but it would be nice to have a look back at my history within eve and be reminded of previous moments I have been part of ,this is why killboards work for me anyways
You don't need badges for your kill but you want to look back at those badges later to remember? How does that even work? |
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perseus skye
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2017.04.12 15:16:33 -
[41] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:perseus skye wrote:
Edit - I Am not a killboard poser ,I do not require a badge for every kill made but it would be nice to have a look back at my history within eve and be reminded of previous moments I have been part of ,this is why killboards work for me anyways
You don't need badges for your kill but you want to look back at those badges later to remember? How does that even work?
Forgive me and other logi pilots for wanting equal credit for fighting equally on the same battlefield as yourself ... I could quote many other game where credit is given for being a logi or medic It's also like a said before a great reminder for people like myself with terrible memory but I'm sure you are such a true purist you never ever check your own killboard =ƒÿ+ |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3299
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 15:21:26 -
[42] - Quote
perseus skye wrote: I could quote many other game where credit is given for being a logi or medic
Go ahead. |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3873
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Posted - 2017.04.12 15:46:53 -
[43] - Quote
If a corp doesn't want a logi pilot because he doesn't have good stats, that's their loss.
My alt was the first logi pilot in a small fw group. Id say we flew roughly twice a week for a year. So 100 roams. I'd sometimes fly solo logi whilst the rest flew dps.
I got few kills and only two logi losses, one exeq and one onerios, yet i pulled their arses out the fire on a number of occasions.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
5
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 21:32:39 -
[44] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:perseus skye wrote: I could quote many other game where credit is given for being a logi or medic
Go ahead.
Heroes of the Storm, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Planetside 2, Battlefield (any), Overwatch (I assume, never played it). Happy now?
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Dimitrios Bekas
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
19
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Posted - 2017.04.12 22:08:02 -
[45] - Quote
Logis should get on Killmails without the need of assigning combat drones or fitting a whore gun. Thats not the purpose of a Logiship/Pilot. But Logipilots have a hard time to be reckognized on zkillchecks (by any players) and also, they don-¦t get that positive feedback from their killboard (ahh nice, in the last fleet fight i got on 34Killmails).
There also is no stat about how much they repped recorded.
How about this.
You rep one of your allies for one cycle. For the next 15mins you get on every Killmail that your Ally also kills.Its the same timer a normal dps ship gets. Plus. If that ally dies, you are also shown on his killmail, but not with a damage Number. It shows how much HP you repped him (in green Numbers on zkill as an example).
Sure this "double" Killmail Feature would make your ISK ratio go up. But who cares ? You whore on 2 Keepstars and 3 Titans with your Travelceptor, DoubleSensor Booster, Civilian Gatling Gun Fit and your Ratio is 98%...You fly a Bomber and whore on Killmails.
Zkillstats should not be the issue here. Or that LogiPilots get on Killmails without dealing any dps is not fair...
The Benefit of that "double killmail" feature could easily feed others information that this killboard here is a mainly Logipilot focussed. With Killmails and approx "Awox" Killmails generated in Guardians or Kirins. Top 10 favourite Ships used under the stats tab on zkill would reflect that this toon is truly a logipilot.
If the "getting on Friendly Killmails with the amount repped in green numbers" is too much...then just keep the amount repaired by the Logipilot, and shown on his Killboard as one Number that keeps going up, without getting an Entry on the friendly Lossmail.
Sure, people could undock and keep repping a Alt Account in a cap stable deimos, while it gets shot by someone else in a slicer. But again, who cares if someone has 2Trillion Repaired HP Numbers enlisted on Zkill.
The whole idea of getting Logipilots somehow on Killmails, is so they also have a "good feeling" while checking stats or their killboard. And for logipilots it is more important to gaze at Stats how much they repaired a target or tried to save them with overheated reppz, than whoring on Killmails.
Well, that-¦s what i believe... :) |
Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
5
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 22:16:48 -
[46] - Quote
Thanks, that's pretty close to a suggestion made by another player earlier and I would prefer that over my suggestion. My suggestion was simply something that doesn't require a new mechanic to be invented and patches up the problem. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1100
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 22:31:21 -
[47] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:I never have and I never will understand this obsession of using your main character to post with. Ideas should be judged based on the idea itself, they should not be judged based on the character that was used to post it. Character age is rendered useless because we can buy and sell characters on a market place.
"Never write something you aren't willing to sign your name to" A good rule in life, a good rule in EVE. Take ownership of what you say.
It's against the TOS to lie about purchasing a character on the bazaar, so that part's irrelevant. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1220
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 12:30:39 -
[48] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:And why should you be taken seriously if you're afraid to post with your main? I never have and I never will understand this obsession of using your main character to post with. Ideas should be judged based on the idea itself, they should not be judged based on the character that was used to post it. Character age is rendered useless because we can buy and sell characters on a market place. One of OP's argument was that lack of killboard stats when flying logi could prevent him from joining a corp... So what does posting with your main have to do with kill board stats, or joining or corp for that matter?
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1220
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 12:52:06 -
[49] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Donnachadh wrote:I never have and I never will understand this obsession of using your main character to post with. Ideas should be judged based on the idea itself, they should not be judged based on the character that was used to post it. Character age is rendered useless because we can buy and sell characters on a market place. "Never write something you aren't willing to sign your name to" A good rule in life, a good rule in EVE. Take ownership of what you say. It's against the TOS to lie about purchasing a character on the bazaar, so that part's irrelevant. No one on these forums signs their name to what we write, because no one uses their real names we ALL hide behind our in-game characters. How do you know if a character is a main or not? In a game that allows each person to have multiple accounts how do you define the term "main"? Even with an API and the checks that allows how do you know if a character is actually that account holders "main"? I choose this character to be my public face here on these forums, is he my "main" character? Or just one of many.
Oh and about that TOS thingy, nice try but there is nothing in the TOS that requires you to release information regarding a character and whether you created it or purchased it from the market.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3300
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 13:29:39 -
[50] - Quote
Senjiu Kanuba wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:perseus skye wrote: I could quote many other game where credit is given for being a logi or medic
Go ahead. Heroes of the Storm, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Planetside 2, Battlefield (any), Overwatch (I assume, never played it). Happy now?
So out of your example, you have 3 MOBA which are completely different from EVE, a FPS where healing is essentially used as stat padding by dropping a healing bag then picking back your weapon and fight like an infantry unit and a MMO where the best way to get noticed for how much healing you do it to make sure your group make some misstakes or botch up a CC chain.
That's a great list. |
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3300
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 13:32:04 -
[51] - Quote
Dimitrios Bekas wrote:Logis should get on Killmails without the need of assigning combat drones or fitting a whore gun. Thats not the purpose of a Logiship/Pilot. But Logipilots have a hard time to be reckognized on zkillchecks (by any players) and also, they don-¦t get that positive feedback from their killboard (ahh nice, in the last fleet fight i got on 34Killmails).
Ah nice, my team didn't get 34 loss mails last fight. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3300
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 13:33:52 -
[52] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:And why should you be taken seriously if you're afraid to post with your main? I never have and I never will understand this obsession of using your main character to post with. Ideas should be judged based on the idea itself, they should not be judged based on the character that was used to post it. Character age is rendered useless because we can buy and sell characters on a market place. One of OP's argument was that lack of killboard stats when flying logi could prevent him from joining a corp... So what does posting with your main have to do with kill board stats, or joining or corp for that matter?
It's mostly funny to me because when they did, people posting on their main confirmed they are not unable to join PvP corps even if they don't get KMs while flying logi. |
Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
5
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 17:43:11 -
[53] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Senjiu Kanuba wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:perseus skye wrote: I could quote many other game where credit is given for being a logi or medic
Go ahead. Heroes of the Storm, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Planetside 2, Battlefield (any), Overwatch (I assume, never played it). Happy now? So out of your example, you have 3 MOBA which are completely different from EVE, a FPS where healing is essentially used as stat padding by dropping a healing bag then picking back your weapon and fight like an infantry unit and a MMO where the best way to get noticed for how much healing you do it to make sure your group make some misstakes or botch up a CC chain. That's a great list.
Okay, your turn. Name six multiplayer games where healers exist but there is no credit given for healing.
Also, for everyone against it, I've asked about that on the first page of the thread already. Please provide an argument (or multiple arguments) why the proposed change would worsen your gaming experience. Like I said, the only argument (if you want to call it that) I heard so far was "stop caring about killboards!". |
Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 19:46:57 -
[54] - Quote
... add logistics interdiction modules that reduce effectiveness of reps upon a target. fit to logis, make your choice go full rep or add this one mod that assists in larges fights. (supers not imune) |
Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
5
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Posted - 2017.04.14 20:31:40 -
[55] - Quote
Eh, that doesn't really solve the problem. I mean, it solves the things that can be done against drones, true, but I doubt you'd want that to have more than 60km range, right? |
Ramukan
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 22:53:08 -
[56] - Quote
Jakob Dabrowski wrote:Hey,
I noticed on the stream today that you mentioned for the anti-headshot-ships that you're aware that they want to get on killmails too. That's great, one of the cool things about eve is that your actions have permanent consequences and one of those is that you can track your progress on killboards.
Logi have a similar problem. I'm aware that you can't give them more slots or fitting room because that would simply be used for better tank / ECCM / more cap. So we use drones, which is fine for small fights. In larger fights drones have a few disadvantages: The distances are bigger so the targets are often either outside of drone control range or the drones don't get there in time. Or they get smartbombed or die to PDS of a citadel. So you can use sentry drones. The problem with those is that you often have to leave them behind and when you fight somewhere else you don't have any of them left, because only the Oneiros (and Exequror) has the room to carry two of them in its drone bay.
So my suggestion is to increase the drone bay on logistic ships (to maybe 100m-¦) and increase the drone control range (by 25km or so). Maybe reduce the damage and EWar effectiveness of the drones by 20% or so to compensate, if you're worried that the logistics ships get too much versatility with that. I'm not really worried about logistics drones, I don't see them used very often outside of the alliance tournament. (And if they have the time to travel 80km to a target that needs repairs then they're probably not needed that desperately anyway)
If i remember correctly WOW put in a mechanic that: If a person you healed killed another person within a certain time period you got credit as well. This would be a much more elegant way to add your name to kills without you needing to be playing around with drones in combat JUST to get on kills. |
Senjiu Kanuba
Risk Breakers Snuffed Out
5
|
Posted - 2017.04.15 21:42:01 -
[57] - Quote
Eh, not exactly. I remember getting honor in battlegrounds just for being nearby, not having done anything (yet) to contribute to the fight. But that's beside the point, I'd like to focus on the problem at hand and stop getting sidetracked like the last two pages in the threat.
This is a typical larger engagement in nullsec, one side are the kills a logi pilot got, the other side are the ones a Tengu pilot got. Guess which is which: https://s22.postimg.org/yhajrgfmn/Guess_which_side_is_logi.png |
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