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BMBE Discussion - Accusations, lies, assumptions and a couple of BPOs

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Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:20:56 As a few of you may have noticed, there's been a rather extraordinary discussion in the market forum about a discrepancy in the reports from BMBE, managed by TornSoul. The initial poster is Eefrit, head of EVE Financial Services. As I by no means have the insight to post all of the statements nor questions, accusations and facts that have surfaced the last few days, I'll simply let the CAOD-community aware of the fact that a serious debate has occured. Below is links to all relevant threads. Pick and read, enjoy. ___________________ Initial post by Eefrit, revealing discrepancies in statements by TornSoul / BMBE. Pre-launch #15 BMBE report by Tornsoul: Real #15 BMBE report by TornSoul: Thread by TornSoul in response to Eefrits initial post. BMBE Shareholder report #4, mentioning the default loan. BMBE Shareholder report #6, stating a capital of 102 billion ISK. Eefrits post regarding the new accusations put forth by TornSoul. BMBE / Eefrit supporters, as illustrated by Ricdic. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:31:00 - [2] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:27:54 Originally by: Wylker Wrong forum? Not from my point of view. BMBE is a public corporation, and I think the discussion about the management of it is *highly* interesting to readers of CAOD, too, let alone Eefrits integrity and the various posts that you'll find in there. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Stavros EPIC broken links ;\ They're working for me last time I checked. Which one isn't to you? ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Originally by: Sortiario Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:27:54 Originally by: Wylker Wrong forum? Not from my point of view. BMBE is a public corporation, and I think the discussion about the management of it is *highly* interesting to readers of CAOD, too, let alone Eefrits integrity and the various posts that you'll find in there. dude you know this is Corporation, Alliance & Organisation forum?? All we got left here is trolls and alts. And to be frank integrity disappared from the eve community in 2005, no one told you that?? I don't see the great contradiction in your first statement. I'm that old a player to EVE, but after a lot of market forum reading, it is my impression that the business side of EVE still thrives - integrity or not. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:47:00 - [5] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:44:29 Originally by: Gnulpie EFS tries to buyout BMBE, but Torn doesn't want to give up the field that easily. So what is better than to ruin the reputation of Torn and BMBE so that a buyout would be easier? Looks like a very common move to throw around personal accusations and business accusations based on numbers (which of course cannot be verfied). Isn't that wonderful? Hypercapitalsm at its perfect work Eve is so rich in this content, and PvP happens not always only in ships. You can fight for markets, squeeze out competitors, try to do takeovers, use all dirty tricks and so on. Fun, fun, right? Hypercapitalism is the true stength of EVE. Go home with your so called "guns". Preparing for flaming from various titan-pilots ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 20:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 20:16:04 Originally by: Minigin tbfh i cbf clicking your links right now... can you please explain in more detail >_>? The short story is that the BMBE reports had a discrepancy, indicating the investors was being frauded by the BMBE management. After serious debate, it came to public knowledge that the discrepancy was due to a 30 billion loss because of a default loan BMBE made. Semi cover-up made by management, accusations of lying from both parties and general bad tone in the debate has been the Market Forum style the last 4 days. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 21:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Kyguard Someone's trying a little too hard to put public eye on Tornsoul Eefrit too. If you read the pages, there's some serious accusations against him, too. But I posted here with the intention that people that had not yet seen the discussion and had evidence or new points of views could join the discussion. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 09:48:00 - [8] Edited by: Sortiario on 08/05/2007 09:46:13 Originally by: FowlPlayChiken if this is true, im incredibly dissapointed that yet another eve stock/mutual fund has turned out to be simply a long term scam. maybe ccp will eventually add a in game stock market and solve these scammage issues Actually, the topics linked indicates that it is not a scam - It's at worst an alt of alt of alt of a BIG member that has earned some ISK. But currently, it only looks like it's bad management performed by TornSoul. However, I think all serious corporations can learn from this case. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Weyr Raykan Can't they just handle this trade dispute properly like all other disputes in EvE? f1, f2, f3, etc. *Real men* PvP on the market. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Marquis Dean You don't get this in WoW... PWNED! QFT! ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Borg017 If I know Tornsoul, he would never scam anyone. The guy is genuinely interested in progress of the game and would not do anything to lose its integrity. His projects are more for the game than for his corp or his own gain. Tbh, he might be a little too extreme in that case. In fact, there have times has he put the progress of the game over his own corp's and corp members' need. The guy has done so much for the community through this bank and his lottery project. I very much doubt that for all these years, he's worked hard to end up scamming for a few billion. This is all just propoganda. Why else would it be in the CAOD? And as such, it doesn't looks like a scam. Poor management yes - scam, no. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 19:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Verite Rendition I'm not really sure why this has been moved to CAOD (this isn't a political matter, it's a market matter), buuuut... It's indeed a political matter. It contains market discussions, yes, *but the main subject of debate is the management and communication of/from BMBE - which is highly political -* and the integrity of Eefrit and TornSoul. Originally by:** Verite Rendition At the very least TornSoul is inept and lacks integrity, and at the most he was trying to pull off something that's just 1 step below outright scamming/theft. TS lost 30% of the BMBE capital on a bad loan: a pair of Skiff BPOs that anyone with a brain knew why they were so expensive (carrier storage) and that CCP was going to nerf the things real soon. That's being inept, the loan obviously should have never been made. All this time, TS has continued to pull his usual share of management fees. Additionally, he couldn't be bothered to tell the investors what was really going on as far as the loss went(claiming that BMBE still has 100bil+ in assets) and continues to this day to refuse to apologize or state some sort of plans for how he's going to fix everything. TS has no integrity, if he did he would have done the opposite of the above. TornSoul can no longer be trusted. Whether it was intentional or not (I believe it was), he's clearly unfit to run a business operation, and deserves all the shaming he gets. Remember that TornSoul had had to deal with scammers inside his own corporation before, defending them in good faith, but later admitting it was a wrong decision. I'd not be surprised if someone inside BMBE or BIG had defaulted the loan and had gained personally from it. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 19:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Sortiario I'd not be surprised if someone inside BMBE or BIG had defaulted the loan and had gained personally from it. This is no place for conjecture. That claim is patently false, I guarantee my reputation on it and will glady pay the full 30b if it is proved to be true. But until someone convinces TS to post the details of the defaultor we will not release any information regarding it. I have not stated that is what I think. I just wouldn't be surprised, considering something similar has happened before. Until either thing is proven, I feel confident that BMBE can deliver good, trustworthy services. Even since the recent case. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.09 07:12:00 - [14] Edited by: Sortiario on 09/05/2007 07:08:21 Treelox, I admit it wasn't the smartest idea, and you may flame me for doing it. I guess my intentions didn't match the killing nature of CAOD. :-) There's still an active discussion in there with Market players almost solely, and as some posters here have stated, they don't read market forum that much, and some potentially bring new information, point of views or oppinions. I did not post it in order to spread the word that TornSoul is a bad manager, or Eefrit is a lying thief. People may read for themselves, and make their own decisions on who to believe. I hope. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service

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