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BMBE Discussion - Accusations, lies, assumptions and a couple of BPOs

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Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:20:56 As a few of you may have noticed, there's been a rather extraordinary discussion in the market forum about a discrepancy in the reports from BMBE, managed by TornSoul. The initial poster is Eefrit, head of EVE Financial Services. As I by no means have the insight to post all of the statements nor questions, accusations and facts that have surfaced the last few days, I'll simply let the CAOD-community aware of the fact that a serious debate has occured. Below is links to all relevant threads. Pick and read, enjoy. ___________________ Initial post by Eefrit, revealing discrepancies in statements by TornSoul / BMBE. Pre-launch #15 BMBE report by Tornsoul: Real #15 BMBE report by TornSoul: Thread by TornSoul in response to Eefrits initial post. BMBE Shareholder report #4, mentioning the default loan. BMBE Shareholder report #6, stating a capital of 102 billion ISK. Eefrits post regarding the new accusations put forth by TornSoul. BMBE / Eefrit supporters, as illustrated by Ricdic. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:28:00 - [2] Wrong forum?
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:31:00 - [3] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:27:54 Originally by: Wylker Wrong forum? Not from my point of view. BMBE is a public corporation, and I think the discussion about the management of it is *highly* interesting to readers of CAOD, too, let alone Eefrits integrity and the various posts that you'll find in there. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Stavros Amarr Itto-Ryu Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:33:00 - [4] EPIC broken links ;\ -- "DANCE DANCE"
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Stavros EPIC broken links ;\ They're working for me last time I checked. Which one isn't to you? ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Lunas Feelgood Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Sortiario Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:27:54 Originally by: Wylker Wrong forum? Not from my point of view. BMBE is a public corporation, and I think the discussion about the management of it is *highly* interesting to readers of CAOD, too, let alone Eefrits integrity and the various posts that you'll find in there. dude you know this is Corporation, Alliance & Organisation forum?? All we got left here is trolls and alts. And to be frank integrity disappared from the eve community in 2005, no one told you that?? Originally by: Shamis Orzoz When the going gets tough...the tough join Bob. Originally by: Shin Ra Didn't u get the memo? Bending over is the new honorable thing to do!
Stavros Amarr Itto-Ryu Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:36:00 - [7] All of them apart from the bottom 2 give 500 internal server error planc bubble blah blah... -- "DANCE DANCE"
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:39:00 - [8] EFS tries to buyout BMBE, but Torn doesn't want to give up the field that easily. So what is better than to ruin the reputation of Torn and BMBE so that a buyout would be easier? Looks like a very common move to throw around personal accusations and business accusations based on numbers (which of course cannot be verfied). Isn't that wonderful? Hypercapitalsm at its perfect work Eve is so rich in this content, and PvP happens not always only in ships. You can fight for markets, squeeze out competitors, try to do takeovers, use all dirty tricks and so on. Fun, fun, right?
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Originally by: Sortiario Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:27:54 Originally by: Wylker Wrong forum? Not from my point of view. BMBE is a public corporation, and I think the discussion about the management of it is *highly* interesting to readers of CAOD, too, let alone Eefrits integrity and the various posts that you'll find in there. dude you know this is Corporation, Alliance & Organisation forum?? All we got left here is trolls and alts. And to be frank integrity disappared from the eve community in 2005, no one told you that?? I don't see the great contradiction in your first statement. I'm that old a player to EVE, but after a lot of market forum reading, it is my impression that the business side of EVE still thrives - integrity or not. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 19:47:00 - [10] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:44:29 Originally by: Gnulpie EFS tries to buyout BMBE, but Torn doesn't want to give up the field that easily. So what is better than to ruin the reputation of Torn and BMBE so that a buyout would be easier? Looks like a very common move to throw around personal accusations and business accusations based on numbers (which of course cannot be verfied). Isn't that wonderful? Hypercapitalsm at its perfect work Eve is so rich in this content, and PvP happens not always only in ships. You can fight for markets, squeeze out competitors, try to do takeovers, use all dirty tricks and so on. Fun, fun, right? Hypercapitalism is the true stength of EVE. Go home with your so called "guns". Preparing for flaming from various titan-pilots ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Minigin Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 20:04:00 - [11] tbfh i cbf clicking your links right now... can you please explain in more detail >_>? Your signature <----- My awsome Sig Real men PVP on the Forums.
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 20:20:00 - [12] Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 20:16:04 Originally by: Minigin tbfh i cbf clicking your links right now... can you please explain in more detail >_>? The short story is that the BMBE reports had a discrepancy, indicating the investors was being frauded by the BMBE management. After serious debate, it came to public knowledge that the discrepancy was due to a 30 billion loss because of a default loan BMBE made. Semi cover-up made by management, accusations of lying from both parties and general bad tone in the debate has been the Market Forum style the last 4 days. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.05.07 20:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Sortiario Semi cover-up made by management, accusations of lying from both parties and general bad tone in the debate has been the Market Forum style the last 4 days. ie., business as usual But basically, Eefrit called out Tornsoul for some pretty bogus management work. As far as I'm concerned, good for Eefrit.
Kyguard Fire Mandrill Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 20:59:00 - [14] Someone's trying a little too hard to put public eye on Tornsoul - Latest Video
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.07 21:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Kyguard Someone's trying a little too hard to put public eye on Tornsoul Eefrit too. If you read the pages, there's some serious accusations against him, too. But I posted here with the intention that people that had not yet seen the discussion and had evidence or new points of views could join the discussion. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.08 01:30:00 - [16] if this is true, im incredibly dissapointed that yet another eve stock/mutual fund has turned out to be simply a long term scam. maybe ccp will eventually add a in game stock market and solve these scammage issues http://nhimebaugh.wetpaint.com/ Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
Anton Marx Caldari Bulgarian Mafia Squad The OSS	Posted - 2007.05.08 01:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Sortiario Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:44:29 Originally by: Gnulpie EFS tries to buyout BMBE, but Torn doesn't want to give up the field that easily. So what is better than to ruin the reputation of Torn and BMBE so that a buyout would be easier? Looks like a very common move to throw around personal accusations and business accusations based on numbers (which of course cannot be verfied). Isn't that wonderful? Hypercapitalsm at its perfect work Eve is so rich in this content, and PvP happens not always only in ships. You can fight for markets, squeeze out competitors, try to do takeovers, use all dirty tricks and so on. Fun, fun, right? Hypercapitalism is the true stength of EVE. Go home with your so called "guns". Preparing for flaming from various titan-pilots Proletarian revolution and universe-wide Communism is the future of EVE
kublai The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.08 01:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Sortiario Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 19:44:29 Originally by: Gnulpie EFS tries to buyout BMBE, but Torn doesn't want to give up the field that easily. So what is better than to ruin the reputation of Torn and BMBE so that a buyout would be easier? Looks like a very common move to throw around personal accusations and business accusations based on numbers (which of course cannot be verfied). Isn't that wonderful? Hypercapitalsm at its perfect work Eve is so rich in this content, and PvP happens not always only in ships. You can fight for markets, squeeze out competitors, try to do takeovers, use all dirty tricks and so on. Fun, fun, right? Hypercapitalism is the true stength of EVE. Go home with your so called "guns". Preparing for flaming from various titan-pilots Yeah it worked great for ISS :P Your signature is inappropiate for these forums, please email us: [email protected] for further information - Kreul Intentions
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.05.08 02:45:00 - [19] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken if this is true, im incredibly dissapointed that yet another eve stock/mutual fund has turned out to be simply a long term scam. maybe ccp will eventually add a in game stock market and solve these scammage issues A perfect in-game stock market would not solve the issues; an easily-accessible stock market would more than likely exacerbate them, with hundreds of small-cap scams going off daily. What is needed is an entity similar to the SEC who can punish INDIVIDUALS, not just characters or accounts, for their actions. Short of that happening, it's always going to be the wild west out here. The fact that ANY IPO's work out in the first place is frankly astounding, and just goes to show the strong tendency of people to want to trust one another in the face of overwhelming evidence that they probably shouldn't. And greed. BTW, buy my stock (EGSE/RESx). MP -- TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs.
James 315 Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.05.08 03:40:00 - [20] Amazing. ...that there are still people who buy into this "no in-game controls but I promise not to run away with your money" stuff.
Dal Thrax Caldari Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.08 05:31:00 - [21] Seems like a fairly standard hostile takeover so far. Let me know when somebody calls in mercs. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again. soon as i have time i will fill you in on the details
Landen Phoenix EVE Empowerment League Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.08 06:20:00 - [22] Read it all and I have to say I have no life and that FIX guy ***** all forums equaly
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.08 06:34:00 - [23] There are market forums!!?? F4T4L Recruitment
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 09:48:00 - [24] Edited by: Sortiario on 08/05/2007 09:46:13 Originally by: FowlPlayChiken if this is true, im incredibly dissapointed that yet another eve stock/mutual fund has turned out to be simply a long term scam. maybe ccp will eventually add a in game stock market and solve these scammage issues Actually, the topics linked indicates that it is not a scam - It's at worst an alt of alt of alt of a BIG member that has earned some ISK. But currently, it only looks like it's bad management performed by TornSoul. However, I think all serious corporations can learn from this case. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Weyr Raykan Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.08 12:07:00 - [25] Can't they just handle this trade dispute properly like all other disputes in EvE? f1, f2, f3, etc.
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Weyr Raykan Can't they just handle this trade dispute properly like all other disputes in EvE? f1, f2, f3, etc. *Real men* PvP on the market. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.08 16:31:00 - [27] You don't get this in WoW... --- Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
Borg017 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.08 16:51:00 - [28] If I know Tornsoul, he would never scam anyone. The guy is genuinely interested in progress of the game and would not do anything to lose its integrity. His projects are more for the game than for his corp or his own gain. Tbh, he might be a little too extreme in that case. In fact, there have times has he put the progress of the game over his own corp's and corp members' need. The guy has done so much for the community through this bank and his lottery project. I very much doubt that for all these years, he's worked hard to end up scamming for a few billion. This is all just propoganda. Why else would it be in the CAOD? -----------------------------------------------
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Marquis Dean You don't get this in WoW... PWNED! QFT! ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service
Sortiario Fair Trade Organization	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Borg017 If I know Tornsoul, he would never scam anyone. The guy is genuinely interested in progress of the game and would not do anything to lose its integrity. His projects are more for the game than for his corp or his own gain. Tbh, he might be a little too extreme in that case. In fact, there have times has he put the progress of the game over his own corp's and corp members' need. The guy has done so much for the community through this bank and his lottery project. I very much doubt that for all these years, he's worked hard to end up scamming for a few billion. This is all just propoganda. Why else would it be in the CAOD? And as such, it doesn't looks like a scam. Poor management yes - scam, no. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service

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