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![Loraine Gess Loraine Gess](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90089445/portrait?size=64)
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
15
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Posted - 2011.12.30 15:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:I left my gang link tengu afk in m-o for 3 hours and came back to it alive and well, not a lot of people have retardedly expensive scanning implants and RSS probes
I'd like to see someone use RSS probes to scan down a ship... |
![Cedo Nulli Cedo Nulli](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1285885236/portrait?size=64)
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2011.12.31 11:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
How is it "awesome" for that guy looking for an expensive killmail to have unscannable ship in the system ? Sounds more like frustrating to me.
This whole post seems like an outcry from botlords. |
![Potamus Jenkins Potamus Jenkins](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1608080883/portrait?size=64)
Potamus Jenkins
The Lucky Bible Company
41
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Posted - 2012.01.01 00:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zevina wrote:Before Incarna as a casual solo player
i think this is where everything went wrong. |
![Malcanis Malcanis](https://images.evetech.net/characters/301445721/portrait?size=64)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2513
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Posted - 2012.01.01 00:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Didn't this inadvertantly kill true snipers and their ability to persist on grid doing damage?
No, this is a different issue
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
![Gorefacer Gorefacer](https://images.evetech.net/characters/912945022/portrait?size=64)
Gorefacer
STRAG3S NEM3SIS.
8
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Posted - 2012.01.01 01:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Didn't this inadvertantly kill true snipers and their ability to persist on grid doing damage?
Don't just say good riddance to this, this actually removed snipers from the battlefield all together and people are for it? Why don't those people go play WoW if they want a game that is easy. Now they whined and killed snipers, Caldari's other ability. This is forcing people to run and gun or train for Winmatar.
Maybe not all ships should get that ability but the snipers should at least have something.
I like how "go back to WOW, EVE is hard" can be used on either side of any argument.
Seems to me like sniping from a safe distance with no way to be scanned is asking for the easy route. Get in range, risk your ship, stop complaining, and you know "go back to wow, EVE is hard", HAH. |
![Gorefacer Gorefacer](https://images.evetech.net/characters/912945022/portrait?size=64)
Gorefacer
STRAG3S NEM3SIS.
8
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Posted - 2012.01.01 01:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:Bob Random wrote:Nobody.
Fit a cloak. if he does, you complain about afk cloakies
Who says he has to go AFK?
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![Hazel Starr Hazel Starr](https://images.evetech.net/characters/987699271/portrait?size=64)
Hazel Starr
Krypteia Brotherhood
3
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Posted - 2012.01.01 05:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
This is interesting for me because as a low-sec mission runner I initially flew with a Golem and Nighthawk (the latter for frigs and to act as the sacraficial lamb spewing FOF at the Azaru mission buster). After maybe two years of this, I moved to a pair of unprobable Tengus as the system (Aeshee) got more exciting with enemy corps actively going for my missions...
The new changes mean that anyone who keeps their eyes open will not be busted at a mission.
Simply watching for close probes will be enough to save your lily-livered arse,
-- Haze
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![Cipher Jones Cipher Jones](https://images.evetech.net/characters/928056758/portrait?size=64)
Cipher Jones
280
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Posted - 2012.01.01 15:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
1. Make ship unscanable. Check 2. Go to low or null to kill NPC's. Check 3. Gimped DPS, making less money than a hisec carebear? Check
And your ship always was and always will be dscanable. As mentioned not a nerf but a bug fix. Whats the issue again?
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
![SpaceSquirrels SpaceSquirrels](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1987425349/portrait?size=64)
SpaceSquirrels
247
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Posted - 2012.01.01 17:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nerf off grid boosting too. |
![Lyrrashae Lyrrashae](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1073718283/portrait?size=64)
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
123
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Posted - 2012.01.01 19:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Un-scannable PvE'ers in open PvP-zones, and (my particular un-favourite) unscannable booster-alts are borderline exploits, not "features," and should never have been allowed in the first place.
Oh, and that heretofore un-scannable ship, whilst now theoretically probable, is still, in real terms, extremely difficult to probe out, and needs a max-skilled CovOps pilot with Sisters equipment, the highest-end hard-wirings (not cheap), and a full Virtue set (even more not-cheap, if you can even find a complete set, I've never in 3 years seen even one) to reliably do so...
So, realistically, little has changed, you just have to actually pay attention to your D-Scanner--you know, same as everybody else?
Not supported, HTFU or GTFO. I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
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![Lyrrashae Lyrrashae](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1073718283/portrait?size=64)
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
123
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Posted - 2012.01.01 19:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I have a counterproposal:
Let's create a sticky thread in which the OP maintains a list of bad ideas. Along with that thread, a new forum rule is added: Before making suggestions on changes to Eve, one must consult that list and see if their idea is already on it. If they post the idea anyway, they get a one-week gag on the forums so that their thread can die in peace.
/Supported.
Looooool, best idea I've seen yet! I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
![Lyrrashae Lyrrashae](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1073718283/portrait?size=64)
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
123
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Posted - 2012.01.01 19:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Othran wrote:Frankly they ought to remove command bonuses from T3 ships altogether.
End of argument then.
Edited to make it clearer.... Or just limit boosting to the local grid.
^^And this, too.
I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
![Lili Lu Lili Lu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/188309313/portrait?size=64)
Lili Lu
92
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Posted - 2012.01.01 21:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown for CSM chairman or president or whatever the hell it is.![P](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_p.png) |
![Surge Roth Surge Roth](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91416177/portrait?size=64)
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.01.01 23:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zevina wrote:The Incarna patch felt like a disaster for lots of reasons, but in the wake of WiS, NeX store and the fearless memo one thing went by almost unnoticed:
The removal of unscannable ships
Before Incarna as a casual solo player you had a chance to travel to low/null sec and do stuff there with a certain chance not to get blown up by the next best roaming gang and PvP fitted ship. You had to make your ship unscannable.
Making your ship unscannable was hard. You had so sacrifice A LOT of tank or damage and therefore flying an unscannable ship was harder than say a normal ratting or mission ship. But as a good pilot with expansive equipment you could manage.
It was also thrilling for people living in low/null sec looking out for an expansive killmail every now and then. Unscannable ships werent immortal, just a little harder to get. You needed to be smart. Scan people out with directional scans, set traps at gates or stations or wait for them in a certain belt. And you needed to maximize the scanning ability of your character and ship to absolute perfection for an occasional very rewarding kill.
Thats all part of the past now and one more VERY INTERESTING feature of the sandbox is gone.
Therefore I petition to bring back unscannable ships in the way it was before Incarna.
Whos with me?
I made my loki unscannable and got the full halo implant set to help with that. Now my loki more or less sits at a station because anything it can do I have other ships that do it better, and my halo set collects dust in a jump clone. |
![Surge Roth Surge Roth](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91416177/portrait?size=64)
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.01.01 23:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Skorpynekomimi wrote:What was once unscannable is now NEARLY unscannable. You need to have perfect skills, a bonused ship, and expensive implants. It's not like any tom, ****, or goonie can scan you down in a T1 frigate with 'get me the **** out this wormhole' skills and a blank clone. This. It still seems for all intents to be basically unscannable. And even if that perfect scanner in a bonused ship does come along, they still probably can't get a perfect hit on one try, so proper use of dscan should warn you in time. Seems fair.
D-scan can't tell you if they're some scrub who wont give up or if they have all the perquisites to scan you down. And the only way of finding out is staying on that grid. So no, it ain't fair. Unscannable ships were more or less fair because of the sacrifice needed to achieve it. Nevermind the fact that only a few select ships were capable of doing it. If people wanna talk about fair how about making it possible to enter different systems without being forced to, for a lack of better words, use a load screen choke point with no way of telling what's on the other side. Nevermind that fact map statistics are unreliable at best to predict what's on the other side of that instance. |
![Bibosikus Bibosikus](https://images.evetech.net/characters/197170897/portrait?size=64)
Bibosikus
Inside out. The G0dfathers
35
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Posted - 2012.01.03 00:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Surge Roth wrote:.. Unscannable ships were more or less fair because of the sacrifice needed to achieve it...
Let me see..
Unscannable
Covert Cloaked
Align time of a frigate
Warps straight through bubbles
Runs 3-4 ganglinks
Please clarify exactly where unscannable T3's made any sacrifice whatsoever. The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
![Yahrr Yahrr](https://images.evetech.net/characters/832917481/portrait?size=64)
Yahrr
The Tuskers
3
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Posted - 2012.01.03 21:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zevina wrote:...unscannable ships...
...as a good pilot with expansive equipment you could manage.
Now your ship is expansive, it only needs a few holes blastered into its hull. ![Lol](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png) |
![Derath Ellecon Derath Ellecon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90686639/portrait?size=64)
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
99
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Posted - 2012.01.03 23:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Surge Roth wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Skorpynekomimi wrote:What was once unscannable is now NEARLY unscannable. You need to have perfect skills, a bonused ship, and expensive implants. It's not like any tom, ****, or goonie can scan you down in a T1 frigate with 'get me the **** out this wormhole' skills and a blank clone. This. It still seems for all intents to be basically unscannable. And even if that perfect scanner in a bonused ship does come along, they still probably can't get a perfect hit on one try, so proper use of dscan should warn you in time. Seems fair. D-scan can't tell you if they're some scrub who wont give up or if they have all the perquisites to scan you down. And the only way of finding out is staying on that grid. So no, it ain't fair. Unscannable ships were more or less fair because of the sacrifice needed to achieve it. Nevermind the fact that only a few select ships were capable of doing it. If people wanna talk about fair how about making it possible to enter different systems without being forced to, for a lack of better words, use a load screen choke point with no way of telling what's on the other side. Nevermind that fact map statistics are unreliable at best to predict what's on the other side of that instance.
So there has been alot of pissing about the removal of unscannable ships. So here's a question. Is there anyone here, who has a previously unscannable ship that has actually gotten scanned down successfully? |
![Zevina Zevina](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1710988673/portrait?size=64)
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
43
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Posted - 2012.01.17 09:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
I agree fleet boosters are a special issue with unscannable ships, but I also cannot see why it is a problem to have them. In 0.0 warfare defending alliances NOW have an unfair advantage, because they can park their fleet boosters safe and sound in a death star bubble, whereas the attacking faction has its fleet boosters exposed in space.
When it comes to PvE ships Im sure noone can argue that it takes A LOT of sacrifice dmg- and tankwise to become unscannable.
Months back Ive been doing missions in a Tengu in Venal, it was an expansive fit and I was quite proud because I was able to create it. One day I jumped through a gate and an Interceptor got me, it was a skilled pilot with a couple of friends. The whole thing was over within a few seconds.
The thing is, when you create an unscannable ship its quite an effort to make it playable and worthwhile. You cant fly it like any other ship, smooth and easy, you need skill. To kill an unscannable ship also takes some effort, you cant just sit with you BC gang in front of a gate or send your drones out, you need a good tackler and a pilot with skill to make the catch.
For me that makes the game more interesting, to have something to think about and work for. And its a sad thing that so many people out there cant accept a challenge and rather hide in their average dull blobs. |
![Soldarius Soldarius](https://images.evetech.net/characters/268384296/portrait?size=64)
Soldarius
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
133
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Posted - 2012.01.17 10:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Zevina wrote:...expansive...
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
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![Zevina Zevina](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1710988673/portrait?size=64)
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
43
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Posted - 2012.01.17 10:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Zevina wrote:...expansive... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Then lets just hope everybody else can guess what I think it means. ^^ Im not a native speaker, so minor spelling mistakes might occur. But thats quite beside the point. |
![March rabbit March rabbit](https://images.evetech.net/characters/2062530289/portrait?size=64)
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
110
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Posted - 2012.01.17 11:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Zevina wrote:...expansive... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. get more to english and you will understand what other people say. i promise ![Big smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile-big.png) |
![Cyzlaki Cyzlaki](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1331411813/portrait?size=64)
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
199
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Posted - 2012.01.17 12:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Still unscannable bro. Stop crying |
![Cyniac Cyniac](https://images.evetech.net/characters/263037611/portrait?size=64)
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
103
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Posted - 2012.01.17 13:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zevina wrote:Thats all part of the past now and one more VERY INTERESTING feature of the sandbox is gone.
Except it isn't.
In practice the only real thing which has increased is your fear level - you now know that out there, somewhere, there are highly skilled and specialised pilots who might be able to track you down.
Which feature is gone from the sandbox?
The ability to run low and nullsec virtually undetected? - Nope still there.
The ability to operate effectively in hostile territory? - Nope still there.
The ability to laugh in the face of scanners trying to catch pin you down for hours? - Nope, still there (For extra fun make sure you warp around when you see the probes closing in. That makes them start over and they go soooooo mad!)
Right now if you are using a hard to scan ship you are virtually uncatchable unless:
1) You are facing a very very skilled scanner (both in terms of in game skills, implants and actual scanning ability) AND 2) You are careless
That's it, nothing lost, a lot gained. Lowsec and null are not supposed to be safe. Ever. (well neither is highsec, but in different ways)
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![Duchess Starbuckington Duchess Starbuckington](https://images.evetech.net/characters/457250536/portrait?size=64)
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
88
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Posted - 2012.01.17 14:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Quote:For me that makes the game more interesting, to have something to think about and work for. And its a sad thing that so many people out there cant accept a challenge and rather hide in their average dull blobs. Dear god, you're still crying about this? |
![Dzajic Dzajic](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1125804591/portrait?size=64)
Dzajic
18
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Posted - 2012.01.17 14:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Leave it as it is. Dynamite fisher (gate camper) whines about lack of pray are most amusing. |
![Derath Ellecon Derath Ellecon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90686639/portrait?size=64)
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
116
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Posted - 2012.01.17 15:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cyniac wrote: Right now if you are using a hard to scan ship you are virtually uncatchable unless:
1) You are facing a very very skilled scanner (both in terms of in game skills, implants and actual scanning ability) AND 2) You are careless
That's it, nothing lost, a lot gained. Lowsec and null are not supposed to be safe. Ever. (well neither is highsec, but in different ways)
I'll ask again. Is there ANYONE here who flies a previously unscannable ship that has actuall gotten scanned down? Is there anyone who has tested this with an unscannable fit and a highly trained scan alt?
It seems to me lots of bitching about the "potential" of now getting scanned down. But I have yet to hear anyone actually getting caught as a result. |
![Jesus Rambo Jesus Rambo](https://images.evetech.net/characters/415067785/portrait?size=64)
Jesus Rambo
Friendship is Magic The Laughing Men
34
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Posted - 2012.01.18 02:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:Bob Random wrote:Nobody.
Fit a cloak. if he does, you complain about afk cloakies
You do know the difference between AFK cloaking and unscannable tengu plexing/missions right? |
![Umega Umega](https://images.evetech.net/characters/552032443/portrait?size=64)
Umega
Solis Mensa
39
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Posted - 2012.01.18 03:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
As someone that used to explore/pie mission at will with old mechanic.. I rather be able to go after ppl that are doing the same. And this is EVE, others should be able to find my uncloaked ship.. whether I like the outcome or not. Only cloak should provide immunity, as you can't do **** when cloaked except watch.. working as intended.
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Othran wrote:Frankly they ought to remove command bonuses from T3 ships altogether.
End of argument then.
Edited to make it clearer.... Or just limit boosting to the local grid.
^This. While I completely, 100% agree.. I think something needs to be done to slaves along with boost-on-grid-only. There only needs to be some pebbles dropped in the armor vs shield scale to balance it out, imo.. boost on grid + slaves working currently as is + those small pebble changes dropped in armor dish that I believe are coming soonTM.. is going to be like dropping a boulder on the armor side of the scale. |
![Cyniac Cyniac](https://images.evetech.net/characters/263037611/portrait?size=64)
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
103
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Posted - 2012.01.19 10:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:I'll ask again. Is there ANYONE here who flies a previously unscannable ship that has actuall gotten scanned down? Is there anyone who has tested this with an unscannable fit and a highly trained scan alt?
It seems to me lots of bitching about the "potential" of now getting scanned down. But I have yet to hear anyone actually getting caught as a result.
It has been tested and you will be caught, under those very special conditions
However like you I don't know of any pilot who has been caught so far with this system, though with the myriad of little tweaks to scanning it's marginally safer to go down to low or null with a full set of implants and try to catch some of those near-unscannable ships.
But the fear factor has been significant - there are noticeably less pimped out ships running around in the space which I frequent. And that's a good thing for me, so keep quiet you! |
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