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Techtriz
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Posted - 2007.05.09 09:39:00 -
[1]
Hi there
Did my first lvl4 mission in years yesterday, it was In the Midst of Deadspace(amarr missions).
I found that my drake using heavy launchers lacked the DPS to take down Amarr Navy Jakars(uber apoc by the looks of it).
These bastards tanks as much damage as I deal, using two BCUs, I even tried with tech2 launchers but the difference was very small.
I'd like to hear if all lvl4 missions have as though tankers as this one? Or if the Navy Jakars are 'special' in their tanking ability.
If they're not, does anyone have any other suggestions as to what tech1 ship could be used succesfully to solo lvl4 missions without and what kind of fitting it would require.
Thanks in advance.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.09 10:00:00 -
[2]
Use a raven.
 Originally by: welsh wizard
You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
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Techtriz
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Posted - 2007.05.09 10:03:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Use a raven.
Cruise missiles?
Torpedos?
Passive shield tank?
Active tank w booster?
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CptEagle
Gallente
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.09 10:51:00 -
[4]
Edited by: CptEagle on 09/05/2007 10:48:37
The only reason you can even attempt the missions is because passive tanking bc's are overpowered... Quite a few BS's have probems with lvl 4's.... Nerf these things already please... 
Constructive-ish stuff: Lvl 4's are ment to be done by BS's, and thus also need the DPS they come with. So yea get a Raven. Or someother BS thats actually fun to fly.
Edit: Cookie cutter lvl 4 Raven setups arent hardt to find. They go like 6x Cruise, XL booster with amp, 4 hardners, then PDU/BCU mix to youre tasting/needs.
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Mathias Orsen
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Posted - 2007.05.09 11:51:00 -
[5]
Drakes have the ability to tank well but sacrifice alot of DPS to do this. Heavy missiles are comparable to railguns, both being long range. Using railguns on lvl 4 missions just don't cut it. You need real damage, such as blasters. Heavy assault missiles come closer to this. That leaves range as a problem now.
For LVL 4 missions you really need the damage of a BS or a BC cappable of doing high damage. Myrmidon with max skills can get about 450-500 DPS from 5x ogre IIs. Drake with 7 heavy scourge fury missiles will get 250-300 DPS. Raven with good torp skills can reach closer to 600 DPS.
I run lvl 4 missions with a drake and myrmidon. Drake tanks, myrm kills. Then for some of bigger BS's I target with both. When trying to do a lvl 4 with just a drake alone, I find it a pure waste of time
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---"What's in your wallet?"---
"There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get" |
heheheh
Singularity.
The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:56:00 -
[6]
Use a BS,
Passive tanked B/C will do simillar damage to that of a cruiser.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.09 13:13:00 -
[7]
Use the Drake to take care of the scramblers and webbing frigs first. Warp out and back in with a BS and take out the big boys.
I use this method to great effect in the Lv4's where you get warped in on top of the enemy. Safer and more efficient than using a BS.
Works a charm.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.05.09 13:15:00 -
[8]
You obviously took the wrong ship mate ... lol using a passive tanked drake for tough missions  .
Everyone knows you use a passive tanked myrmidon.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.09 13:39:00 -
[9]
use the search button plzkthx. we already have a billion threads on raven fits
Originally by: welsh wizard
You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
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Kuno Hida
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Posted - 2007.05.09 14:39:00 -
[10]
Ignore the peanut gallery. Any complaints as to passive tanks being overpowered are based on anecdotal evidence.
One thing you should look into is the T1 gear - The drake's passive tank is sturdy enough to risk more expensive gear and rigs on missioning (if you're not already). I'm suspecting that its all t1 gear.
Alpha striking with missiles is a waste of effort. You're more likely to wear down your enemy's reppers staggered so you're hitting with one as you launch another.
A 1mil BS should take almost a full load of ammunition, and anything over 1.3 should be almost impossible.
Your BC doesn't hit as hard as a BS, so some missions are just not doable.
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Calarn
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.09 14:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Drek Grapper
Use the Drake to take care of the scramblers and webbing frigs first. Warp out and back in with a BS and take out the big boys.
I use this method to great effect in the Lv4's where you get warped in on top of the enemy. Safer and more efficient than using a BS.
Works a charm.
...Or just use a cookie-cutter raven which can easily tank 99% of spawns and be done in half the time.
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Kurieg
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.09 14:52:00 -
[12]
Try T2 launchers and stock some Fury missiles for the tough tanks. It's like a 17% damage increase (assuming big, slow targets), and 17% can be enough to go from not quite breaking a tank to killing the target in a respectable time.
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Damiv
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Posted - 2007.05.09 15:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Damiv on 09/05/2007 14:58:08
My drake with Arblest launchers (and a full t2 tank) and two bcu's and about 600k in missile skills (I need more I know) can down anything 1.3mil or less. I have not had a lvl 4 mission I was not able to complete yet. However, it can take a bit of time to do so, not so bad now that I finaly have t2 drones however. Stagger your missiles, take out all the small ships before deploying your drones, ad be patient. Yes, it can take me an hour to complete some of the longer missions, but it can be done in a Drake. I have not seen anything over 1.5mil in my missions yet, I'll let you know if I can down those when I meet one. :p
Oh, the only times I've had to warp out was when I accidentally aggroed multiple spawns.
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Dark Flare
Caldari
Corpus PCG
The State
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Posted - 2007.05.09 15:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kuno Hida
Ignore the peanut gallery. Any complaints as to passive tanks being overpowered are based on anecdotal evidence.
One thing you should look into is the T1 gear - The drake's passive tank is sturdy enough to risk more expensive gear and rigs on missioning (if you're not already). I'm suspecting that its all t1 gear.
Alpha striking with missiles is a waste of effort. You're more likely to wear down your enemy's reppers staggered so you're hitting with one as you launch another.
A 1mil BS should take almost a full load of ammunition, and anything over 1.3 should be almost impossible.
Your BC doesn't hit as hard as a BS, so some missions are just not doable.
QFT, and what the last guy said about T2 missiles + ammo.
Dark Flare - Corpus PCG |
Kuno Hida
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Posted - 2007.05.09 15:19:00 -
[15]
On a second look at eveinfo.com, there's strong evidence that the regen rates of some of your targets are approximately the same as the BS I get, just in a single block.
You should be able to do it, its just going to take a while while you chip away at its armor.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
Ground Zeero
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Posted - 2007.05.09 15:29:00 -
[16]
Get raven.
It has a lot better dps and tanks better too. Sure drake is awesome compared to caracal but hey it's only bc.
Another option is suffer until you get t2 skills and maxed bc skill so you can run most of lvl 4's in your drake, again, it doesn't mean you would do better than in raven with same sp investment.
And for passive shield haters I can only say my mom will punish you.
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Kuno Hida
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Posted - 2007.05.09 15:31:00 -
[17]
So:
Can you run L4 missions in a t1 Drake? Sometimes.
Can you hammer a 1.3 mil BS? Yes. But it takes between 3 and 5 minutes per BS, and around 200 missiles each.
Can you solo L4 missions in a Drake? Yes. Lots of threads on it.
Are there better ships? Yes. And worse - YMMV
Are there Cheaper ships? Possibly. A Reasonable t2 fit should run around 200m including rigs. Few BS fits can match that.
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Kuno Hida
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Posted - 2007.05.09 16:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn
Get raven.
It has a lot better dps and tanks better too.
Yeah, lets leave big number crunching to other folks.
Let me break it down to small words:
Raven expensive, and faster.
Drake cheap, and profits faster.
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Mannakin
Caldari
Mercurialis Inc.
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.09 16:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kuno Hida
Yeah, lets leave big number crunching to other folks.
Let me break it down to small words:
Raven expensive, and faster.
Drake cheap, and profits faster.
The better profit is using a Raven - it does the missions faster and gets you cash faster. The ammo cost advantage of a Drake is insignificant and the purchase cost of the ships is quickly made back unless you have silly faction fittings.
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Karrihn
Caldari
Black Company
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Posted - 2007.05.09 17:05:00 -
[20]
Ok Math:
Amarr Jackbar:
Shields : 4750 EM resist 0%
Armor : 6750 EM resist 50%
You want to do EM damage, second choice would be Thermal @ 20% shield 60% armor.
The shields will full recharge in 9 minutes
Peak shield recharge is about 21/second.
Armor has a 75% chance for repper cycle that lasts 25 seconds repairing 1250 armor. 1250/25 = 50/sec repaired.
T2 launchers on a drake 7 * 290 = 2030/5.11 = 397.26 DPS a second EM using Fury missiles.
Assuming the Armor repper hits 100% + shield recharge = 121 Dps a second you need to do 21 for shield recharage and 100 for armor repair including resists. you sould have 397 - 121 = 277 damage /sec net. It should take you 51.52 seconds to down it to structure.
Now if you are being a lazy Caldari and are trying to use T1 Scourge missiles you are hitting the second highest resists at 40%Shield and 70% armor. Which will add minutes onto the time needed to kill it. And if your being a knuckle head and using Explosive missiles, you might as well use harsh language and a firece scowl on your face.
This mission could be done with a T1 tank and rigs. But T2 launchers are required as well as T2 Missiles.
The Destruction of your ship is usually preceeded by the thought,"I think I will try somthing a little different this time...." |
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Damiv
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Posted - 2007.05.09 17:19:00 -
[21]
I'm a lazy caldari. I just take out 11.5k t1 Scourge missiles and a nice book. :P
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.05.09 18:05:00 -
[22]
I haven't seen a L4 mission that couldn't be done in a Drake. You may need to get a few more missile skills, but even the 2.5m bounty boss of Vengence is killable by a Drake using Arbalest Heavy Missile Launchers (not Heavy Assault) and drones. Stagger launch and getting in under the target's defenders is the key.
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Mogrin
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Posted - 2007.05.09 19:37:00 -
[23]
You won't even be able to finish some of the lvl 4s solo with a drake, there are some named BSs that'd take t2 high damage missiles just to break their tank.
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Potot Aragot
Caldari
Aragot Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.09 19:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mogrin
You won't even be able to finish some of the lvl 4s solo with a drake, there are some named BSs that'd take t2 high damage missiles just to break their tank.
Trust me, all level 4 missions can be done in a Drake, even a best-named fitted one.
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Mogrin
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Posted - 2007.05.09 20:39:00 -
[25]
I know. I wasn't able to do it at first, then I changed my setup to:
Highs: 7x Heavy Launcher IIs
Mids: 3x Large Extender IIs | 3x Tech II Active Hardeners
Lows: 1x Co-Processor II | 3x Ballistic Control Unit IIs
Rigs: 3x Field Purger Is
You probably don't need this much more DPS, but I jumped from 7x Malkuth and no dmg mods to 7x HL IIs with high damage Tech II missiles and 3x BCU IIs and I could definitely do enough DPS for level 4s then.
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Crazy Yuri
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Posted - 2007.05.10 01:14:00 -
[26]
Drones can help out a lot. The extra constant dps can help break those BS tanks.
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Oprahh
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Posted - 2007.05.10 01:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Crazy Yuri
Drones can help out a lot. The extra constant dps can help break those BS tanks.
What kind of drones do you use on battleships? Ogres?
I've started doing lvl 4's on my drake, and I have trouble killing some battleships. I'm a young char, so my missile skills are pretty weak at this point.
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king jks
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.10 04:43:00 -
[28]
Bring thunderbolt fury's for those ones. Also, get a nighthawk, they're better than ravens for L4's.
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Mogrin
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Posted - 2007.05.10 04:47:00 -
[29]
<1 year later> yay nighthawk!
... !@#$ its an overpriced drake
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Rokh vs. Hyperion |
Militis Kolosok
Caldari
Praetorian BlackGuard
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.10 05:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Techtriz
Edited by: Techtriz on 09/05/2007 10:30:47
Originally by: Sokratesz
Use a raven.
Cruise missiles?
Torpedos?
Passive shield tank?
Active tank w booster?
Boosters take too much cap, can't run indefinently(warping out would significantly slow down the process)
Passive tank require so many shield power relays that the can't even hold 4 specific shield hardeners and even then the recharge is worse then the drakes, which can only barely hold.
Um... mine run indefinitely :) (Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster) don't need to warp out either on 90% of the lvl 4 missions, if not 99%.
Praetorian BlackGuard Now Recruiting! |
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