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Ship (esp Capital and Supercapital) Upkeep

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Xi Xing Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.05.09 15:50:00 - [1] OK, there's a lot of moaning about titans and how disastrous it will be when there are fifty bla bla bla. I have had a small idea which i think might be worth sharing/discussing. It doesn't only apply to titans, it applies to all ships in varying amounts. The benefits would be: - Newbies are relatively unaffected - It becomes very expensive to own multiple capitals and supercapitals, putting a practical cap on their numbers The idea is based on the fact that each ship in Eve is a one-time investment. I can buy a little run about like an Incursus - i can insure it if I want, but apart from that.. I now own it and (assuming it doesn't meet a fiery death at the end of a missile) it will last forever at no cost. How ridiculous is that? Compare it to any real situation and you will see that it's preposterous. My car (which, without waving my epeen, is german and pretty solidly built) will develop several faults over its lifetime, and has plenty of consumables which need replacing. In effect, it costs me money to own it. Compare it to an Airline, who spend tend of thousands on each aircraft, continually ensuring that every aspect of every plane is checked and tested and in perfect condition. Yet in Eve, once you have bought your thousand-ton, multiple staff, military grade space ship.... it requires no extra upkeep. It just works forever for free. Scale this up to capital ships and it becomes truly laughable... you are telling me that my Erebus requires zero maintenance at all? It's a machine the size of a small city! I suggest an sliding scale of upkeep "maintenance fees" which must be paid in ISK, in order to be allowed to undock in your ship. By sliding scale, I mean something like the following: it costs 1,000 ISK a week to maintain a frigate a destroyer is 2,500 ISK/week a cruiser is 10,000 ISK/week a battlecruiser is 200,000 ISK/wk a battlship is 750,000 ISK/wk a capital ship is 25,000,000 ISK/wk a titan is 1 bil ISK/wk. Now, i just made those numbers up and have no idea what the ramifications of those would be. So don't get all "750k ISK a week is too much you suck" if you choose not to pay the weekly maintenance fee then it just gets saved up, so next week you have to pay 2 weeks worth. It will stack, up to a set level which would probably half of the ship's value. Beyond that, it just costs half the ship's value to get spaceworthy again. Bear in mind that for a battlecruiser that might cost 25 million, a payment of 200,000 isk a week will take 50 weeks - almost a year - to reach that 'half-value' cap. I am in serious danger of going into tl;dr territory here so I will end with a question: What do you think? PXIN Recruitment: Open Again! (woo)
Aneroi Amarr VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:04:00 - [2] something like this would work /signed http://aneroi.tk
Eleana Tomelac Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.09 16:07:00 - [3] I think it should be only applied ti ships that you use. When in stations, you can imagine stasis fields to keep the ships from rust. Also, many people collect ships. The idea is not to create costs for casual players. It would be even worse for a casual player collecting ships... When you use a ship, you may get some isk from missions, controlled territory, loot from blown player ships... A ship that has been used between two downtimes at least once will add "one day of use". Then you come to a fair (best I could, counting the time spent in the ship might not be better) count of the days used. I use close to everyday my cruiser, then I should pay every week, I say no problem, the income from missions and belt rating is good enough. Even blowing few frigates in empire is enough bounties. The fee might even be higher if we count this way. When I'm away and not playing Eve, it costs me nothing, there's no "pay 5 billion because all your ships have rusted to death" before I can play. The costs should be different for high-tech ships, as faction ships (my cruiser is as being a vexor navy issue and is quite high tech stuff compared to the basic vexor) and higher tech ships. There's somewhere a hidden "meta-level" of item in everything, maybe that stat is perfectly representing how high tech it is. Maybe I'm totally wrong with the meta-level. Maybe just tech level and faction or not is enough. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs. The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
Xi Xing Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.05.09 20:53:00 - [4] Yes, good thinking. You're right in that you wouldnt want to prevent people from owning many ships. I guess you would need a system that only charged the week's upkeep on a ship if it had been used within that week. So you could either have a free ship, or a useful ship. PXIN Recruitment: Open Again! (woo)
Angelus Xenotov	Posted - 2007.05.10 00:09:00 - [5] Nice 'idea' but alas, totally pointless. Capital upkeep? Well its fine and dandy to keep a Capital ship in 1 system, but what if you need to move it? BAM, costs money, Capitals have their own costs associated with them, other ships don't need upkeep costs, it would lower the 'fun' of eve if everytime you left the station you had to pay some rediculious tax.
Saajin	Posted - 2007.05.10 04:22:00 - [6] Edited by: Saajin on 10/05/2007 04:23:39 I agree that paying a fee wouldn't bee all that much fun, but maybe if individual components/systems were blown out after excessive use (say, your engines blow out since you're always going full speed in your interceptor), it might be fun to look "under the hood" to maybe just put some connections together or replace a little something... I'm sure someone could make this idea cooler. It would also have to be pretty infrequent... like a once-a-month tune up or something. Oh and little things like rust building up could be cool too, they could give your ship character... and you could just scrub it off with a single click in a station if you really wanted to...
Sarf Asgard Industries Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.05.10 04:36:00 - [7] How about a run timer. It tracks per ship how much time is spent in space, Lets assume that while a ship is docked then the crews are preforming maintenance on the ship. So lets say a you fly your mega around for 10h over the weekend. and leave your domi in the hanger. now each hour that a ship is docked the crew does 10m worth of flight time worth of maintenance, times a maintenance factor, times Ship category A T1 ship has a maintenance factor of 1.0 while a T2 version has a factor of 0.7. ship category: Frigate = 1.0 cruiser = 0.95 battleship = 0.9 capital ship = 0.8 and supper capital = 0.6 so over the weekend your domi will need no maintenance. The mega though will need 10h flight time worth of maintenance, and so must either sit un-flown in the hanger for 10h / 1.0 / 0.9 = 11.1h or you pay 100isk per 10m of maintenance time to hire a crew to do the maintenance. There are small problems and big problems with a ship. I would say maintenance has to exceed 24h before a ship is prevented from un-docking. There you go, for the causal player that only plays weekends, he will never pay a single isk, for the hard core player or super capital player they will either only take there ship out rarely, or pay for the upkeep. If this was added i would think some small benefits should also be given for a well maintained ship. For instance maybe gal ships get 5% armor boost amount for maintenance times under 6 hours, Cald shield boost,... or what ever bonus makes sense per race. - Sarf CEO, Director of Freighter construction. Miner of small balls of dirt.
Trader Darin Gallente Sky Transport and Production	Posted - 2007.05.10 05:13:00 - [8] Let did not forget about nanotechnology, it allow not care about upkeep and other stuff, only major damage must be repaired on station and damage of equipment too. Nonobots allow to maintane all components in good health, only big damage can make serius problem... =========================== Between Light and Darkness, Road Difficult and Hard. Are able you pass it to the end?!? --- àOnly who walk on Path can reach it endà
Draekas Darkwater Sanctum Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.10 05:52:00 - [9] Edited by: Draekas Darkwater on 10/05/2007 05:51:52 Edited by: Draekas Darkwater on 10/05/2007 05:50:11 Interesting idea. Makes sense, and would add another isk sink into the economy. If implemented, I agree it should only affect ships that are used.. maybe on a per hour basis or something. So many hours without maintainance would cause a slow degradation of ship performance. Like maybe, across the board reductions in hull, armor, shield, CPU and Power grid, until it gets fixed at a station. Of course then, you'd have to ask if POSs should require maintainance... hehe Also, as far as I know, Titans can't dock anywhere to get fixed. So, you'd have to invent some kind of cap ship repair facility module for POSs.
Xi Xing Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.05.10 08:17:00 - [10] Doh. Can't dock supercapitals. Forgot about that. Well that makes things a lot more complicated. It was only meant to be a simple idea to stop people just building titans until they get bored. I agree that ships would be partly maintained by nanobots. I'm sure that's the reasoning behind not having any maintenance. Anyway just an idea. PXIN Recruitment: Open Again! (woo)

Creeco	Posted - 2007.05.10 09:23:00 - [11] i have thought of this... i once had a nightmare that my mechanic called me and said my faction booster needed to be replaced on my raven :( /signed
paulcdb Gallente Ascent of Ages Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:53:00 - [12] i thought thats why we have minmatar in the game for
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Hammers Academy	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:21:00 - [13] firstly there are about 5 titans in existence. secondly, have you ever watched any space tv stuff. probs not. do they pay upkeep for their ships, no. they quite simply put help each other out to keep the ship up together. items may need replacing sure, for example you may want a new speed module, so you go out and buy one. then refit it. in tv programmes, they do it through trade. the only upkeep usually is done by the staff for the cause of the whole crew who do not need to exchange wages etc. so all in all, maintenance = no to me by all means bring fuel into it, and theres a repair bay ni alot of stations which is like running a car. you have to pay that way but then to own the module you have to pay for that too. i vote no
Mahavy Seth Amarr Vure	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:57:00 - [14] Upkeep in EvE is a must. With Upkeep there will be much more small ships in the universe, and we can also put in some realism. /Signed
Draekas Darkwater Sanctum Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer firstly there are about 5 titans in existence. secondly, have you ever watched any space tv stuff. probs not. do they pay upkeep for their ships, no. they quite simply put help each other out to keep the ship up together. items may need replacing sure, for example you may want a new speed module, so you go out and buy one. then refit it. in tv programmes, they do it through trade. the only upkeep usually is done by the staff for the cause of the whole crew who do not need to exchange wages etc. so all in all, maintenance = no to me by all means bring fuel into it, and theres a repair bay ni alot of stations which is like running a car. you have to pay that way but then to own the module you have to pay for that too. i vote no Sure they do, what TV shows are you talking about? You just normally don't see it on TV, because stuff like that is done between episodes. In some cases like Star Trek, the crew repairs minor damage along the way with spare parts they carry with them. So, sure you could add spare parts in EVE and have them get depleted overtime, but would take up cargo space.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:06:00 - [16] Capital ships cost enough to fly as it is ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2007.05.10 21:12:00 - [17] I think this addition falls to the unneeded coding work for the devs category IMO.


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