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Shayla Sh'inlux The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:31:00 - [1] Edited by: Shayla Sh''inlux on 10/05/2007 10:27:30 Hey everyone, My corp's holding various 1v1 tournaments and in a couple of weeks we'll have a tech 1 cruiser tourament. The rules for this are: tech 1 cruiser, fitted with non-named tech 1 modules No Damps No ECM No Rigs Other than that everything is fine. Fights will start between 0km and 100km apart (each opponent can warp in up to 50km away from a certain point). Now, I already prepared my cruiser for it, but I'm wondering what would you use and how would you fit it?. I'd like to know what I might run into you see :-) Discussing moderation is a no-no - Tirg
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:33:00 - [2] If you have trajectory analysis lvl5, stabber should beat everything. Slowly but surely :) Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:41:00 - [3] Originally by: Ryysa If you have trajectory analysis lvl5, stabber should beat everything. Slowly but surely :) This isn't true. An equally skilled ruppy pilot will win and there are probably others but that the only one that popped to the top of my head.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:42:00 - [4] Rupture with web, scram, cap injector. Eventually they will get bored of trying to break your tank and venture into web range ^^ But seriously, I think this is indeed a case of the fastest ship wins. The only way around that is fitting a permanant tank that the other person can't break, so possibly the moa or maller there. sgb
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:48:00 - [5] Edited by: Scordite on 10/05/2007 10:44:17 How is being fast = victory when you're using t1 mods only and no rigs? You'll have trouble outrunning missiles and light drones, possibly meds as well. Unless of course you can couple the greater speed with greater range as well, but then breaking tanks becomes an issue. Also, an arbi could take a stabber ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Scordite Edited by: Scordite on 10/05/2007 10:44:17 How is being fast = victory when you're using t1 mods only and no rigs? You'll have trouble outrunning missiles and light drones, possibly meds as well. Unless of course you can couple the greater speed with greater range as well, but then breaking tanks becomes an issue. Also, an arbi could take a stabber Ok, I presume you're not allowed to warp out. Stabber will have little trouble tanking missile damage with a speed fit + extender. Light drones are catching up to you? Web + one a/c volley = pop. Same with meds. In 'real' pvp I killed a vexor with my stabber by running around him at 12k, drawing his drones out and popping them, then switching to close range ammo and going in close. And that was a T1 setup with t2 guns I think. sgb
Ria Denas PERKONE Industies	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:01:00 - [7] Use a tanked rupture with 220's or duel 180s or even go asfar as super tanking it and using 280 arties.. or use a mauler tanked up to the eye balls. or use a tanked up or max damage rax or Light missile tanked caracel with shield extenders thats about the only ships worth fighting with ... Mind u i love the stabber
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:06:00 - [8] Edited by: Ryysa on 10/05/2007 11:04:29 Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Ryysa If you have trajectory analysis lvl5, stabber should beat everything. Slowly but surely :) This isn't true. An equally skilled ruppy pilot will win and there are probably others but that the only one that popped to the top of my head. Sigh. No proof ftw :D Anyhow, I did some research into this. Now with drones, this looks pretty grim for the stabber, however stabber won't have any problems whatsoever keeping range and quickly disposing of drones. So let's take a look what happens without them. You see, at some 15km stabber actually outdamages the rupture, not by a lot, but it does. If rupture is armortanked with plate, it most likely won't have a whole lot of of cap left after trying to mwd to the stabber all the time to repair. Every time stabber takes a lot of damage he can zoom away, regen some of his shield and come back, he will have good shield/cap when he comes back while rupture will be struggling with cap since it has to repair. This will either end in a stalemate or a very long fight where stabber wins, assuming equal SP and piloting skills. Oh and, plated up blaster vexor will eat everything but the stabber alive :P Good point regarding the maller though, I don't see how a stabber will ever even touch a maller since maller can hit him all the time on his 0% shield resist and it has resist bonus so it won't take much damage at all from the stabber. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Ria Denas PERKONE Industies	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 10/05/2007 11:04:29 Originally by: Morreia Originally by: Ryysa If you have trajectory analysis lvl5, stabber should beat everything. Slowly but surely :) This isn't true. An equally skilled ruppy pilot will win and there are probably others but that the only one that popped to the top of my head. Sigh. No proof ftw :D Anyhow, I did some research into this. Now with drones, this looks pretty grim for the stabber, however stabber won't have any problems whatsoever keeping range and quickly disposing of drones. So let's take a look what happens without them. You see, at some 15km stabber actually outdamages the rupture, not by a lot, but it does. If rupture is armortanked with plate, it most likely won't have a whole lot of of cap left after trying to mwd to the stabber all the time to repair. Every time stabber takes a lot of damage he can zoom away, regen some of his shield and come back, he will have good shield/cap when he comes back while rupture will be struggling with cap since it has to repair. This will either end in a stalemate or a very long fight where stabber wins, assuming equal SP and piloting skills. Oh and, plated up blaster vexor will eat everything but the stabber alive :P Good point regarding the maller though, I don't see how a stabber will ever even touch a maller since maller can hit him all the time on his 0% shield resist and it has resist bonus so it won't take much damage at all from the stabber. totally forgot about the vexor .. your right a good vexor pilot will eat alive most ships
mematar The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:12:00 - [10] I doubt you will see it but I would use a Rupture with 720mm Artillery. It just hurts like hell!
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:14:00 - [11] And dies terribly. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Cpt Branko	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:17:00 - [12] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/05/2007 11:14:26 The Rupture vs Stabber fight, assuming equal skills and an intelligent Stabber pilot who will retreat once badly damaged can only end in a stalemate - the rupture outdamages and outtanks the stabber with equal range and tracking, meaning the stabber can't really do anything to the ruppie without dying itself. Assuming carrying a scrambler is mandatory (to make fits realistic), and fitting MWD is just sensible, both the rupture and the stabber have one free midslot for an extender if they want it. Edit: I forgot the ruppie could catch up fitted for speed and with a webber drone.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:19:00 - [13] Originally by: mematar I doubt you will see it but I would use a Rupture with 720mm Artillery. It just hurts like hell! Only between 15 and 40ks or so. Sadly, most people aren't nice enough to sit there :( sgb
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:19:00 - [14] Edited by: Ryysa on 10/05/2007 11:15:56 Originally by: Cpt Branko The Rupture vs Stabber fight, assuming equal skills and an intelligent Stabber pilot who will retreat once badly damaged can only end in a stalemate - the rupture outdamages and outtanks the stabber with equal range and tracking, meaning the stabber can't really do anything to the ruppie without dying itself. Assuming carrying a scrambler is mandatory (to make fits realistic), and fitting MWD is just sensible, both the rupture and the stabber have one free midslot for an extender if they want it. First of all, rupture armortanks and uses web. Second of all, if you would learn to read you would see that rupture does NOT outdamage stabber outside of webrange, unless you are colourblind. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:19:00 - [15] Originally by: smallgreenblur Ok, I presume you're not allowed to warp out. Stabber will have little trouble tanking missile damage with a speed fit + extender. Light drones are catching up to you? Web + one a/c volley = pop. Same with meds. In 'real' pvp I killed a vexor with my stabber by running around him at 12k, drawing his drones out and popping them, then switching to close range ammo and going in close. And that was a T1 setup with t2 guns I think. If warpout is not allowed, you have room for a web on the stabber, yeah. Surely you'd have trouble one-volleying drones without one when you have a couple bonused TDs on you. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Ryysa on 10/05/2007 11:18:44 Just fyi, the ship with the TD bonus is the arbitrator. Also, arbitrator only has 4 mids, I don't see him fitting more than one TD. TD's affect tracking and optimal, AC's operate in falloff, using a single TD will not reduce a stabber's tracking enough, it will surely make it harder to pop drones, but you can fly away from the drones in a straight line, at which point they will follow and tracking almost won't matter anymore. Also, if scrambling is not required in this tourney, just fit mwding nossing arbitrator with 3 damps or something, and laugh at everything. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Elaina Marie	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:22:00 - [17] Edited by: Elaina Marie on 10/05/2007 11:18:31 Rupture Dual 180mm x4, Assault launchers x2 MWD, 20km, Web 1600mm RT, EANM x2, DCM, Gyro Complete T1 fit, will kill any T1 cruiser in a 1vs1.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Elaina Marie Rupture Dual 180mm x4, Assault launchers x2 MWD, 20km, Web 1600mm RT, EANM x2, DCM, Gyro Complete T1 fit, will kill any T1 cruiser in a 1vs1. With no rep, it will die to a decent stabber pilot every time, not to mention an equally skilled thorax, vexor... shall i go on ? Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Elaina Marie Edited by: Elaina Marie on 10/05/2007 11:18:31 Rupture Dual 180mm x4, Assault launchers x2 MWD, 20km, Web 1600mm RT, EANM x2, DCM, Gyro Complete T1 fit, will kill any T1 cruiser in a 1vs1. Reading the thread ftw. Providing the other ship is obliging enough to start at 5ks or so, this ship has a decent chance. I presume you mean Damage Control by DCM, so you have no rep on that setup. What if the other ship isn't nice enough to come within 10ks? Personally for random rupture gankage this setup can be quite fun: 4 x 425s/220s (can't remember which fit), 2 x heavies / nos mwd, dual large shield extenders, 3 x guyo II, DC, speed mod. Not really a 1v1 setup due to lack of tackling, on the other hand it puts out enough dps and is agile enough that if you bump something smallish you can probably kill it before it realigns ^^ I also tanked a close range tempy in it for about 30 seconds, enough time for it to go boom to my gang. sgb
Morreia The Celestial Element	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 10/05/2007 11:15:56 Originally by: Cpt Branko The Rupture vs Stabber fight, assuming equal skills and an intelligent Stabber pilot who will retreat once badly damaged can only end in a stalemate - the rupture outdamages and outtanks the stabber with equal range and tracking, meaning the stabber can't really do anything to the ruppie without dying itself. Assuming carrying a scrambler is mandatory (to make fits realistic), and fitting MWD is just sensible, both the rupture and the stabber have one free midslot for an extender if they want it. First of all, rupture armortanks and uses web. Second of all, if you would learn to read you would see that rupture does NOT outdamage stabber outside of webrange, unless you are colourblind. Out of curiosity how come on your graph despite the fact that the ruppy has 5% damage and 5% ROF whereas stabber just has 5% ROF the stabber does more damage. I'm not saying its nesicarily wrong I'm just curious as to why it came out like that.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:33:00 - [21] Caracal, heavy launchers, dual large shield extenders, 3 inv fields, 1 pdu, 1 bcu. Bye, bye stabber and most of everything. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Elaina Marie	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:36:00 - [22] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Elaina Marie Edited by: Elaina Marie on 10/05/2007 11:18:31 Rupture Dual 180mm x4, Assault launchers x2 MWD, 20km, Web 1600mm RT, EANM x2, DCM, Gyro Complete T1 fit, will kill any T1 cruiser in a 1vs1. Reading the thread ftw. Providing the other ship is obliging enough to start at 5ks or so, this ship has a decent chance. I presume you mean Damage Control by DCM, so you have no rep on that setup. What if the other ship isn't nice enough to come within 10ks? Personally for random rupture gankage this setup can be quite fun: 4 x 425s/220s (can't remember which fit), 2 x heavies / nos mwd, dual large shield extenders, 3 x guyo II, DC, speed mod. Not really a 1v1 setup due to lack of tackling, on the other hand it puts out enough dps and is agile enough that if you bump something smallish you can probably kill it before it realigns ^^ I also tanked a close range tempy in it for about 30 seconds, enough time for it to go boom to my gang. sgb Knowing your ship FTW. Anything that does EMP dmg will nuke you in a couple of seconds with that fit. With no tackling gear, anything faster than you (just about everything with a rupture) will nuke you from range as you can't hold them down. My fit tanked a T2 tempest and "lived" long enough for my gang to kill it. It also tanked 2 huginns long enough for the calvary to arrive. My fit gives very nice armor resists and a crap load of HP. Your fit gives you a ton of HP, but also a huge Sig radius (heavy drones from a vexor/arbi will nuke you) and a huge hole in your resists. Also, 425's track horribly so things with speed (stabber/nano arbi) will kill you easy.... So many things wrong with your fit I am afraid.
Cpt Branko	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:36:00 - [23] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/05/2007 11:38:11 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/05/2007 11:37:54 Ryssa, I have no idea how you got that graph, but assuming both use dual 180mms, and falloff, tracking and optimal is the same for both ships, the rupture gets a 25% damage bonus at cruiser V that the stabber doesn't have. Both get a ROF bonus, and the stabber gets a ship velocity bonus. Or did you fit two damage mods on the stabber as the legend below suggests? Edit: fitting 1600mm plate will just make it more boring for you to get killed at range - the rupture is rather fast [200m/s], compared to thorax [180], vexor [170], moa[175], Caracal [187], arbitrator [170] and so on. The only combat T1 cruiser which is faster is the stabber, so you might as well not gimp that :)
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:37:00 - [24] No rep rupture pwns in "real" pvp situations though. That rep doesnt matter at all compared to the extra eanm you can suddenly fit. When you get primaried i rather like that. In 1 vs 1 the maller could tottaly pwn with a mwd+ 1600mm plate and medium rep + injector and some nos/neut. Not saying it will be a full rack of M sized nos though. Just exhaust the people that try to be speedy, those that try to gank you, suck them empty. I think a dual shieldextended caracal with heavy or assault missile launchers will have a good chance too. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Ryysa Just fyi, the ship with the TD bonus is the arbitrator. Also, arbitrator only has 4 mids, I don't see him fitting more than one TD. TD's affect tracking and optimal, AC's operate in falloff, using a single TD will not reduce a stabber's tracking enough, it will surely make it harder to pop drones, but you can fly away from the drones in a straight line, at which point they will follow and tracking almost won't matter anymore. I said "arbi could take stabber", sgb countered with his real-pvp vexor vs stabber drone-popping example. But we were talking about the arbi the whole time. If warpout is not allowed, it's not unrealistic to see more than 1 TD. Of course, the stabber could have web in his free med to counter.. But if you have to use the same setup for every fight, would you go for the web on the stabber, knowing you're faster than everyone else? Also, keep in mind that the stabber's speed is limited by tech1 mods and no rigs. Light drones will be faster than you, so getting a near-zero transversal situation might not be all that easy (though certainly doable). I'm not saying the arbi would win consistantly, merely that it's possible. Quote: 3 damps Not allowed, as specified by OP ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Jacob Holland Gallente FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:11:00 - [26] Shield tanked Arbitrator, Launcher and Drones for damage, Nos for annoyance factor. Heavy Missile Caracal, they win most of the T1 tournaments I see. A/C Rupture. Thorax, The only ship most Rupture pilots will admit to being scared of 1 vs 1... Fitting with medium Blasters leaves you with no tank whatsoever, with 50km to cover the likelyhood is that you'll die before you can get into range. Small guns and enough HP to get to grips is probably the way to go. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Shayla Sh'inlux The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:23:00 - [27] I should add that due to warpout not being allowed we don't need to fit a scrambler. Furthermore the fighting arena is limited to 100km away from the "center" in every direction meaning kiting is not going to last forever. I added it to the original post. Discussing moderation is a no-no - Tirg
Dreadmuppet Four	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:28:00 - [28] I would think a plated rax with small neutrons would get close
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Jacob Holland Heavy Missile Caracal, they win most of the T1 tournaments I see. QFT In the next in-corp tournament we are most likely going to disallow both kestrels in the frig section and caracals in the cruiser section. They just pwn everything in that setting and on top of that it doesn't make for very fun fights on either side. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:42:00 - [30] Arbi fit like this : 4x small nos -- 2x target painters I MWD Webb -- 1600mm plate SAR I EANM I Dam Control I 2x Ogre I + 2x Hammerhead I + 1x Hobgoblin I -------------------------------------------------- http://dojo.fi/~rancid/loituma__.swfAlways look on the bright side

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