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Rethor Badus Gallente Eye Of Horus	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:02:00 - [1] Would a T2 Recon Battlecruiser be overpowered? Basically it could be summat along the lines off... Class - Recon Battlecruiser (or summat cooler) Amarr Name : Seraphin Harbringer Hull - Khanid (Black harbringer) X8 Highs Ie - X1 Cloak, X4 Guns X3 Nos X3 X4 Mids - MWD - Web - Scramb - Injector X6 lows - X2 MAR, X1 EAM II, X1 DC II, X2 Heatsink II 25M3 Dronebay Bonus's +20% Nos amount per level +5% ROF Per Level +5% Damage Per level -10% Turret capaciter use -99% Fitting reduction for covert ops cloaks Gallente Name : Gorgon Myridon Hull X7 Highs X1 Cloak, X6 250mm II's X5 Mids X1 MWD, X2 Warp Dist, X1 Injector, X1 Tracking dist X6 Lows X1 MAR II, X2 EAM II, X1 DC II, X2 MFS II Bonus's +10% Drone sentry Damage per level +20% Warp Dist ranger per level +5% Turret Damage +7.5% Armour rep amount per level -99% Fitting for Cov Ops cloak 125m3 Dronebay Minmatar Name : Vortex Hurricane Hull High X7 X1 Cloak, X6 425mm Auto's Mids X7 X1 MWD, X1 Scramb, X1 Web, X1 LSB II, X2 invul II, X1 Injector II Lows X4 X1 PDU II, X3 Giro II Drones X50 M3 Dronebay +5% ROF + Damage per level +20% Web range per level +5% Falloff Per level -99% Cloak fitting per level Caldari Name : Dragoon X7 High X1 Cloak X6 HAM X8 Mid X1 MWD, Scramb, X1 LSB II,X1 Invul II, X1 injector II, X3 EW Mods X3 Low x3 Ballistic Cont II +5% ROF +5% Kinetic Damage +15% EWAR Per level +5% Flight time per level -99% Cloak Fitting per level 50m3 Dronebay (Note *As this ship will finally be a high damamge for caldari, it will have very low natural shield recharge time, as to stop any attempt at passive tanking) Any ideas? flames?, (the caldri one im not too keen on tbh) Also to use this ship you would need for ie the Amarr one. Amarr Cruiser 5 Battlecruiser 5 Heavy Assault cruiser 4 Assault Frigate 4 Recon Cruiser 4 Command ships 4 Signature Anlysis 5 Long range targeting 5 Energy Emmission systems 5 (each racial one needs the relevent skill at 5)
Cpt Branko	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:06:00 - [2] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/05/2007 11:04:06 Maybe overpowered - but a T2 ship based on hurricane hull and bonuses would make minmatar pilots drool. Seriously. PS. 6 mids 7 lows as you listed would be definitely excessive.
Rethor Badus Gallente Eye Of Horus	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:09:00 - [3] Yeah, i noticed that looking up, but tbh they all are all great in there own way, I thought it would have been wiser to make the Gallente one a good damage midrange sniper with sniper drones for summat different (who can keep his targets there)
Gaul Cascade Survey Division Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:12:00 - [4] Are you serious? So, it can cloak, nos, scramble, tackle, cap-inject and tank like a command ship? Overpowered does not even come close to the amount of imba your suggestion is -----------------------------------------------------------------
NoNah	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:14:00 - [5] Doubt recon is the name you want. Just having issues seeing beefed up cruisers used for battle(hence the name) used as recon ships. Continuing this line well have a recon dread soon. As for the ships themselves, well, theres just two parts really, wouldnt they all have more Mids if theyre recon ships? And why on earth did the caldari one get 8? The hurricane based ship will be a beast, it would be silly even without the cloak. Whereas the gallente ship basicly got nothing but the cloak to improve it from the myrmid.
Rethor Badus Gallente Eye Of Horus	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Gaul Cascade Are you serious? So, it can cloak, nos, scramble, tackle, cap-inject and tank like a command ship? Overpowered does not even come close to the amount of imba your suggestion is The only one that can do that is the amarr one, which if you have not noticed is actualyl forced into fighting in web range, and would die to anything that can kite
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:28:00 - [7] Why doesnt gallente get all there EW bonusses? Damp bonus should be on it, even when people like other bonusses more. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Rethor Badus Originally by: Gaul Cascade Are you serious? So, it can cloak, nos, scramble, tackle, cap-inject and tank like a command ship? Overpowered does not even come close to the amount of imba your suggestion is The only one that can do that is the amarr one, which if you have not noticed is actualyl forced into fighting in web range, and would die to anything that can kite Speedfit + faction nos? ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Rethor Badus Gallente Eye Of Horus	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:29:00 - [9] Originally by: NoNah Doubt recon is the name you want. Just having issues seeing beefed up cruisers used for battle(hence the name) used as recon ships. Continuing this line well have a recon dread soon. As for the ships themselves, well, theres just two parts really, wouldnt they all have more Mids if theyre recon ships? And why on earth did the caldari one get 8? The hurricane based ship will be a beast, it would be silly even without the cloak. Whereas the gallente ship basicly got nothing but the cloak to improve it from the myrmid. The caldari one i wasnt too happy with, i guess the 8 mids was for the idea of allowing it to finally solo, summat i hear caldari moan about alot, also fianlly a good HAM platform as EW is as usefull at any range. The gallente one still has the warp distruptor range, so you can effectivly fight at 60/70km with rails and drones, perhaps it could have a +20% sentry drone damage only mod. Just i love the variety the recon ships provide, but i want to fly summat moer like a klingon battlecruiser/romulan warbird etc :)
Rethor Badus Gallente Eye Of Horus	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Scordite Originally by: Rethor Badus Originally by: Gaul Cascade Are you serious? So, it can cloak, nos, scramble, tackle, cap-inject and tank like a command ship? Overpowered does not even come close to the amount of imba your suggestion is The only one that can do that is the amarr one, which if you have not noticed is actualyl forced into fighting in web range, and would die to anything that can kite Speedfit + faction nos? That thing would still die to a huggin/curse/(new minnie one) Anything with any damps, also it wont be able to hit for toffee crap with those lasers if it had a speed setup, not to mention battlecruisers cannot be nanoed up very well if there base speed is nerfed.
Rethor Badus Gallente Eye Of Horus	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:34:00 - [11] Originally by: madaluap Why doesnt gallente get all there EW bonusses? Damp bonus should be on it, even when people like other bonusses more. If you noticed all of them only get 1 EW bonus Amarr Nos amount (to stop nano setup imba with range) Gallente Warp dist range/damp are equally as good Caldari EW strengh as to allow close fighting Minmatar Web, as painting bonus's suck
Rethor Badus Gallente Eye Of Horus	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:39:00 - [12] And also, speedfit with faction nos at 19km orbit in a battlecruiser isnt what i would call a nano setup, all the other person needs to do is mwd away, then go back at them, remmeber if were talking "faction" the other guys got a 15km web
DeadDuck Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/05/2007 11:04:06 Maybe overpowered - but a T2 ship based on hurricane hull and bonuses would make minmatar pilots drool. Seriously. PS. 6 mids 7 lows as you listed would be definitely excessive. I dream with a tec2 Harbinger
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:20:00 - [14] HAC like resists & e-war - YES cloak bonus - NO Originally by: welsh wizard You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
ZuN3 kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.10 12:47:00 - [15] Edited by: ZuN3 on 10/05/2007 12:43:06 Web range bonus for the Minnie recon? We want our TP bonus! It's 'bonuses' btw.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.10 13:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Sokratesz HAC like resists & e-war - YES cloak bonus - NO Yeah, OP you need to split them into Combat Recon BCs and Force Recon BCs, where one has 60% of the CBC racial resists, EWar & damage bonuses (or whatever) and the other has the CPU reduction on the cloak, one Ewar bonus and 30% of CBC racial resists. As it is now two of these could completely incapacitate a Dread, while killing it's support. --- Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.05.10 13:03:00 - [17] Actually if were going to have a heavy recon ship and its minmatar, I would prefer to have the tp bonuses, because we all know that CCP will get around to buffing it with an extra effect sooner more than later. Anyway can we have 2 heavy recon ships per race, same as the cruiser recons where you have a DPS + Ewar and a Cloak+Cyno+Ewar version or the t2 tier2 bc's.
Zirth Caldari Dragonian Freelancers CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.10 13:13:00 - [18] Yes, overpowered.
Danae Uriaal	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:23:00 - [19] Just a little something I noticed, I'm not completly opposed to the idea, but as others have said, a bit overpowered. It's clear that your gallente... All of the battlecruisers keep their original number of highslots, having to give up something they normally fit for a cloak, whereas the myrmidon t2 gets an extra highslot as to not give anything up while also getting a cloak
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Rethor Badus Name : Seraphin Harbringer Hull - Khanid (Black harbringer) X8 Highs Ie - X1 Cloak, X4 Guns X3 Nos X3 X4 Mids - MWD - Web - Scramb - Injector X6 lows - X2 MAR, X1 EAM II, X1 DC II, X2 Heatsink II 25M3 Dronebay Bonus's +20% Nos amount per level +5% ROF Per Level +5% Damage Per level -10% Turret capaciter use -99% Fitting reduction for covert ops cloaks Don't know about the others but why would anyone fly a recon bc that has absolutely no ewar? Nos is no ewar (coz otherwise mummys would be immune to it) although lot of people think of it that way. So at first we need a real ewar bonus(like TD). Then where are our mid-slots? You do realize that harbinger already has 4 mids and that in todays world this is what is considered a necessity for (esp. solo) pvp? How can a "recon" version of harbi only have 4 mids? Why has its dronebay been gimped while myrmidon still can mount 6 weapons + 5 bs drones and gets an extra dmg bonus? Harbi can't fit mwd, dual rep + guns & nos nowadays (cept we are talking fmps which is laughable for a ship that has a dmg + rof bonus as you sketched it) so how much pg will it have? Also this would rather be a Viziam ship as Khanid ships always have more mids than it's counterparts. I mean in the end we have a harbinger with medium-low damage output and some heavy nos (but only under 12km) and the total lack of any ewar. Why in the world would any self-respecting amarr prefer this ship over the pilgrim(which would own this harbinger anyday)? Btw. Myrmidon can do same amount of dmg(4xHeavy Pulses + 5xhobgoblins give about 490dps with the bonuses i think) with its drones, nos the same amount as the recon harbi would(no bonus but more free highs)and tank way better? (disregarding t2 resistances) It then still has a midslot more and can actuallly fit some ewar. Sorry this harbi will even be owned by a tech1 myrmidon! Your first error was the idea to take a dmg dealer and somehow make it into an ewar ship. The result is a Frankenstein-Monster that's good for nothing and especially its absolutely not a bit recon-like. No offence but have you actually flown a recon? You don't seem to get the spirit of such ships - it's totally different from what you think of here. To answer your initial question this Harbinger would be an overpriced but underpowered t2-Harbinger. Regarding the other ships i also don't think it's a good idea. Your new Myrmi has no real recon-stinch. It's just some kind of mid-range myrmi with a scrambler bonus. Not very helpful i guess. And then hurricane has 7 i repeat 7 mid slots? You seem to change the design into a shield tanker? Why is that? I can see people use these mids for lots of damps, but maybe i'm stupid. I could go on for a long time. I think looking at how recon cruisers can often own battleships every serious attempt to produce a worthwile recon-bc will end up in overpowered ships. But of the ships you made up only the caldari/minmatar one have the possibility to actually equip some ewar. So please have a look at how recon cruisers work and try to come up with a similar approach. They all have very weak tanks and can die in 30 seconds if you make a mistake. Their tank is mainly there e-war which is why mid slots are more important than anything else.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:23:00 - [21] i want t2 imicus and navitas first
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:42:00 - [22] Recons are already pretty powerful as they are, I don't think giving them battlecruiser tanks would be balanced. In any way, shape or form. sgb
kessah Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:47:00 - [23] omg, yes its overpowered, wouldnt mind so much if you could flush cloaking pilots out with some sort of ping location mod though. --------------------------------------------------------
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:56:00 - [24] Edited by: Nian Banks on 10/05/2007 15:58:15 Edited by: Nian Banks on 10/05/2007 15:53:52 T2 Harbinger Combat High: 8 (8/0) Medium: 5 Low: 6 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in laser capacitor need and 5% bonus to laser damage Heavy Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 20% bonus to Tracking Disruptor range. 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. Force High: 7 (7/0) Medium: 5 Low: 7 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level and 5% bonus to laser damage Heavy Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. T2 Drake Combat High: 8 (0/8) Medium: 6 Low: 5 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles, light missiles and heavy assault missiles Heavy Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level and 5% bonus to heavy and light missile kinetic damage. 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. Force High: 7 (0:6) Medium: 7 Low: 5 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% shield resistance and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level Heavy Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. T2 Myrmidon Combat High: 6 (6/0) Medium: 6 Low: 6 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level Heavy Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. Force High: 6 (6/0) Medium: 7 Low: 6 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level and 5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per level Heavy Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. T2 Hurricane Combat High: 8 (7/3) Medium: 5 Low: 6 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% increase in projectile weapons damage and Rate of Fire Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range and 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff per level 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. Force High: 7 (6/3) Medium: 6 Low: 6 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% increase in projectile weapons damage and 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness Heavy Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Role Bonus: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration. 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules. edit was a minor error x2 Another thing is that the resists should be the same as their races Combat/Force Recon's, for everything else, the ship get a minor cpu and grid boost but all the rest stays the same unless a tweak is necessary.
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:48:00 - [25] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 10/05/2007 16:45:51 Current tier 2 BC are overpowered. OR current tier1 BC AND tech2 BC (CS) are underpowered. You can't add even more slots and features to the tier2 BCs we have atm before sorting out tier1 first. Guy above me has offered an amarrian beast with 8-5-6 slots, 19 in total. FFS! WTF is that? DPS of Absolution with insane EW? No, thanks. Tbh, you should somehow elaborate and prove that we do need new and more powerfull recons before actually inventing ships and setups
Aakron Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:56:00 - [26] They would be stupidly overpowered solo pwn mobiles and render a whole host of other ships to be pointless ---
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 10/05/2007 16:45:51 Current tier 2 BC are overpowered. OR current tier1 BC AND tech2 BC (CS) are underpowered. You can't add even more slots and features to the tier2 BCs we have atm before sorting out tier1 first. You have a point with regards to the t1's and command ships, what the tier1's need is a increase in capacitor, for the command ships they need the increase in capacitor (and even more for fleet commands) and more hitpoints. Quote: Guy above me has offered an amarrian beast with 8-5-6 slots, 19 in total. FFS! WTF is that? DPS of Absolution with insane EW? No, thanks. If you didn't notice, all the ships I posted had 19 slots except for the Gallente Combat that had 18. Tho you think its too much, I would remind you that the tier1 bc's came with 17 slots and the tier2's came with 18 and the command ships also have 18. Basically tier1->tier2 = +1 slot, tech1-->tech2 often = +1 slot. So its not anything shock horror. We are talking about the largest tech2 ship in the game, when the command ships came out the same arguments were used, I am sure of that. The question is, So bloody what? So a tier2 tech2 battlecruiser can do in a battleship? Pft, the ship would probably cost 200m isk and we all know that due to the amount of ships that use cruiser sized modules, that the fittings will cost more than a battleship also. So in cost its higher, then there's the skill requirements and the lack of insurance. So your argument against is what? Quote: Tbh, you should somehow elaborate and prove that we do need new and more powerfull recons before actually inventing ships and setups The argument for new ships? You mean to say you don't want more ships in the game? Well then lets all ditch everything but the rookie frigate and go pvp in those, because hey. Why do we need any more ships than one? We can mine/haul/pvp in them. I am sure they are well balanced too. So we surely don't need anything else. I mean why have content in an online game? Why add more things so that people keep playing it? Now here's a question to you, why don't we need it? We will soon enough get t2 battleships, they will own everyone, they will be solo pawn mobiles that can destroy capital ships. Why do we need t2 battleships? Everyone says they want them but then they will make all other ships obsolete, and will pawn 3 capital ships at a time. Rofl.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Rethor Badus Amarr Name : Seraphin Harbringer Hull - Khanid (Black harbringer) X8 Highs Ie - X1 Cloak, X4 Guns X3 Nos X3 X4 Mids - MWD - Web - Scramb - Injector X6 lows - X2 MAR, X1 EAM II, X1 DC II, X2 Heatsink II 25M3 Dronebay Bonus's +20% Nos amount per level +5% ROF Per Level +5% Damage Per level -10% Turret capaciter use -99% Fitting reduction for covert ops cloaks Lol, overpowered much? I wonder what you fly Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:07:00 - [29] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Rethor Badus Amarr Name : Seraphin Harbringer Hull - Khanid (Black harbringer) X8 Highs Ie - X1 Cloak, X4 Guns X3 Nos X3 X4 Mids - MWD - Web - Scramb - Injector X6 lows - X2 MAR, X1 EAM II, X1 DC II, X2 Heatsink II 25M3 Dronebay Bonus's +20% Nos amount per level +5% ROF Per Level +5% Damage Per level -10% Turret capaciter use -99% Fitting reduction for covert ops cloaks Lol, overpowered much? I wonder what you fly As i elaborated above a tech1 myrmidon can do the same amount of damage with its drones and nos the same about if it only fits nos in hi's. It also has a tank bonus, an additional med slot and is less susceptible to ewar (but drones can be killed ofc). So how is this overpowered? I wonder what you fly but obviously you don't fly amarr much. I would agree in a gang you could do really crazy things with that thing i.e. fitting only nos/neuts etc. But thats not what most people deem a fun-role to be in. And looking at the probable pricetag i doubt it's worth using it as a nos only platform. You could use a geddon, nos more over greater range and cheaper instead.
Altrex Stoppel Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:08:00 - [30] Originally by: madaluap Why doesnt gallente get all there EW bonusses? Damp bonus should be on it, even when people like other bonusses more. Yea keep the senrty drone bonus plus add a damperner bonus and drop one of the others...oh thatd be evil Originally by: Zedrik Cayne That being said, the dark side actually has cookies. Fortified with vitamins A,B,D and YARR!

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