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OMG, shield nerf?

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Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.13 01:46:00 - [1] Edited by: Gretta Scott on 13/05/2007 01:44:07 Mate told me that SISI has a shield tank nerf :( Tell me it ain't so. Shield tanking is the worst kind of tanking anyway, everyone knows it, except maybe CCP :( If anything, it should be buffed, wtf.
0raven0 OUTLAWZ IMMORTAL	Posted - 2007.05.13 01:50:00 - [2] Probably a passive shield tanking nerf? DIE DRAKE ------ Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
lofty29 Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.13 01:50:00 - [3] Uh, when a BC can tank like a BC using little to no cap, its hardly in need of a buff... --- My sig has gone into exile
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.13 01:55:00 - [4] Well, is it true though? I can't get on SISI for some reason. Maybe my client is screwed up.
0raven0 OUTLAWZ IMMORTAL	Posted - 2007.05.13 02:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Gretta Scott Well, is it true though? I can't get on SISI for some reason. Maybe my client is screwed up. I hope so, everyone knows the drake is overpowered. There are about a million whine threads about it. ------ Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
Merin Ryskin FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.13 02:41:00 - [6] Confirmed. Battlecruisers now have 1400s shield recharge time (up from 1250s). So a nerf, but not a crippling one. And yes, this was long overdue. I'm sick of passive-tanked uberDrakes, and I won't miss them one bit.
Rashneer Chindi Brotherhood	Posted - 2007.05.13 03:26:00 - [7] Edited by: Rashneer on 13/05/2007 03:25:56 I doupt it will effect anything. I setup a myrmidon in quickfit and got a 89.7/sec recharge rate on my shields. Thats with 6x shield power relay t2 and 3 field purgers, shield operation at lvl5. (quickfit can be off a bit, but thats still ALOT better then a drake can get) so if anything its just making the myrmidon more like the drake =P edit: I also have a shield recharge rate bonus +3 implant and shield HP bonus +3
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.05.13 03:29:00 - [8] Edited by: xHalcyonx on 13/05/2007 03:27:11 Originally by: Rashneer I doupt it will effect anything. I setup a myrmidon in quickfit and got a 89.7/sec recharge rate on my shields. Thats with 6x shield power relay t2 and 3 field purgers, shield operation at lvl5. (quickfit can be off a bit, but thats still ALOT better then a drake can get) so if anything its just making the myrmidon more like the drake =P Looks like I'm going to take out 2 extender rigs and replace them with purgers on my drake. It will still give me >100 hp/s at least, not much worse than the 121 hp/s I currently run on my level 3 mission running drake.
Jaedar Metron Artificial Horizons YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.13 03:36:00 - [9] Great. Thanks alot whiners. Guess I have to fit an active tank on my Drake to get any sort of decent tank while trying to do anything other than PvE. Really, thanks.
Dark Kavar Caldari Aionios Diadochi The Makhai	Posted - 2007.05.13 03:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Rashneer Edited by: Rashneer on 13/05/2007 03:25:56 I doupt it will effect anything. I setup a myrmidon in quickfit and got a 89.7/sec recharge rate on my shields. Thats with 6x shield power relay t2 and 3 field purgers, shield operation at lvl5. (quickfit can be off a bit, but thats still ALOT better then a drake can get) so if anything its just making the myrmidon more like the drake =P edit: I also have a shield recharge rate bonus +3 implant and shield HP bonus +3 That's pitiful, are you sure those numbers are correct Kind of like the Triforce in Zelda, only not quite as potent.
Dark Kavar Caldari Aionios Diadochi The Makhai	Posted - 2007.05.13 03:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Confirmed. Battlecruisers now have 1400s shield recharge time (up from 1250s). So a nerf, but not a crippling one. And yes, this was long overdue. I'm sick of passive-tanked uberDrakes, and I won't miss them one bit. Ya those uberDrakes with ZOMG!!!dps and loads of e-war, who could miss those? Kind of like the Triforce in Zelda, only not quite as potent.
Zirth Caldari Dragonian Freelancers CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:13:00 - [12] Sweet, now the Myrmidon, a battlecruiser ment to armor tank, with 5 meds to tackle, and 6 lows to tank, and a 7.5% ammount bonus per level of battlecruisers is not that much inferior to the shield tank anymore, if not actually greater. Was getting pretty sick of passive stuff anyway. I understand a good tank is neccisary, and that passive tanking adds a whole new way of tanking to the game, but it all got a bit too damn passive. As in neglecting tackling gear, and even damage just to get that tank going, too little action. Half of the drakes you met had **** damage, no scram, web or mwd, and required a few battleships to kill. Ugh. I'm glad it's better now, and that passive tanking is still a good option.
Hei'di Righteous Choirboys Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:15:00 - [13] 1400s sounds not bad enough... Ofc a passive Drake/Myrm cannot solo properly, but imho a gank bs should always be able to brake these tanks and a proper bs should always be able to tank more dps. But I guess I'm quite alone with this point of view...
Stevobob Freedom Guard	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:34:00 - [14] Someone want to check the Myrmi and see if its charge time has been gimped at all, seeing as how it's been used to shield tank? :P
Merin Ryskin FinFleet	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Stevobob Someone want to check the Myrmi and see if its charge time has been gimped at all, seeing as how it's been used to shield tank? :P All T1 battlecruisers have the same 1400s recharge time now. Command ships don't, but a strong passive tank is far less of a problem on an elite ship requiring tons of skill points and a tank-focused role. Originally by: Dark Kavar Originally by: Merin Ryskin Confirmed. Battlecruisers now have 1400s shield recharge time (up from 1250s). So a nerf, but not a crippling one. And yes, this was long overdue. I'm sick of passive-tanked uberDrakes, and I won't miss them one bit. Ya those uberDrakes with ZOMG!!!dps and loads of e-war, who could miss those? That's not the point. Passive Drakes were BORING. It sits there mindlessly tanking and spamming missiles until you finally get bored and decide to go home. There's no risk of dying to one (especially the ones that don't even bother with warp scramblers), but actually killing one is a huge pain. I don't even bother engaging them 1v1, even if the pilot sucks and I manage to kill him, it's so boring it's not even worth it. A high dps Drake with good ewar would at least be interesting (in fact I argued for a gank over tank Drake from the moment they hit SiSi). The current Drake is just boring on both ends, painfully boring to fight against, painfully boring to fly.
Jackal79	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:47:00 - [16] Uh, I dunno what game you guys are playing but the hardest BC class tank I've run into is a myrmidon armor tank with duel reps. Not only can a myrmidon do 600DPS (more than a siege II raven), but it can also tank nearly as hard as a battleship, especially if it sacrifices some of that DPS for a bit of NOS. Who came up with 7.5% for gallente tanking bonuses anyhow? Can't the drake and rokh get 7.5% resists bonuses per level to resists? I can see that gallente are supposed to be the more powerful race - and thats OK, but if I have to give up all the useful PvP gear to shield tank then my shield tank should freaking be alot stronger than an armor tank.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.05.13 04:53:00 - [17] Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 13/05/2007 04:51:31 Originally by: Jackal79 Not only can a myrmidon do 600DPS (more than a siege II raven) I'll stop you right there and call BS. Raven is capable of far higher DPS than that last I checked. Myrm is overpowered though because it's the only BC that uses BS sized weapons. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.13 05:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Jackal79 Uh, I dunno what game you guys are playing but the hardest BC class tank I've run into is a myrmidon armor tank with duel reps. Not only can a myrmidon do 600DPS (more than a siege II raven), but it can also tank nearly as hard as a battleship, especially if it sacrifices some of that DPS for a bit of NOS. Who came up with 7.5% for gallente tanking bonuses anyhow? Can't the drake and rokh get 7.5% resists bonuses per level to resists? I can see that gallente are supposed to be the more powerful race - and thats OK, but if I have to give up all the useful PvP gear to shield tank then my shield tank should freaking be alot stronger than an armor tank. I'd like to remind you that a dual-rep tank will eventually break when cap charges run out and when its nossed. This is not the same with passive tanking and therefore you should have to sacrifice something for it. Also don't forget that the range of the myrmidon is not like that of the drake. You can't expect to have huge range and compare your damage to closerange gankers - thats just unreasonable. That said - Myrmidon is totally insane. Everyone knows it but no one wants to admit - because we are all too busy pwning battleships in it. I'd rather have myrmi nerfed (although i fly it myself) than drake i must admit. Drake with insane passive tank is a nuisance - a well setup myrmidon is dangerous! I don't even bother engaging one in my bc's except if i fly one myself lol(can only fly gallente and amarr though - dunno bout hurricane). Thats the difference and no one who fought it can claim otherwise.
Stevobob Freedom Guard	Posted - 2007.05.13 05:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 13/05/2007 04:51:31 Originally by: Jackal79 Not only can a myrmidon do 600DPS (more than a siege II raven) I'll stop you right there and call BS. Raven is capable of far higher DPS than that last I checked. Myrm is overpowered though because it's the only BC that uses BS sized weapons. But drones are not class-specific weapons. A Myrmidon's primary weapon is drones, it should be able to use powerful ones. The Vexor can use heavy drones, the Arbitrator can use heavy drones. The Ishkur can, and hell, it's a Frigate-class ship. I dunno why ship class keeps being compared to drone size, I've read it a few times now.
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.13 05:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Stevobob Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 13/05/2007 04:51:31 Originally by: Jackal79 Not only can a myrmidon do 600DPS (more than a siege II raven) I'll stop you right there and call BS. Raven is capable of far higher DPS than that last I checked. Myrm is overpowered though because it's the only BC that uses BS sized weapons. But drones are not class-specific weapons. A Myrmidon's primary weapon is drones, it should be able to use powerful ones. The Vexor can use heavy drones, the Arbitrator can use heavy drones. The Ishkur can, and hell, it's a Frigate-class ship. I dunno why ship class keeps being compared to drone size, I've read it a few times now. Very true. 5x medium drones would be an insult for a drone-bc because drone cruisers can already do that damage. But hands on if vexor and arbitrator would be tier3 with more pg and slots to spend they would just own any other cruiser. This is what happened with the myrmidon(and domi is another example - though its tier2). Problem is most turret users have to use 4-6 hislots and 1-2 lowslots to reach the damage a myrmidon can put out only via drones. Myrmidon can use all its lows for a crazy tank and all its his for more dmg or even better nos and neuts. Arbitrator and Vexor are limited fitting wise so this can't really happen.
Jackal79	Posted - 2007.05.13 06:41:00 - [21] Well I don't know how a raven does much over 600DPS because mine would do like 450 with rage torpedoes and 2x BCU IIs. I'm sure 5x BCU IIs and better torp specializtion skills could put it at 600 but I don't see it going way over 600. I've encountered mymis that could probably take my T2 fitted PvP raven solo, which is ridiculous -> no drake could have hope in hell of doing that or any other BC for that matter.
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Gretta Scott ... Shield tanking is the worst kind of tanking anyway, everyone knows it, except maybe CCP :( If anything, it should be buffed, wtf. Gotta be kidding, right?! Shield tanking is the strongest tank, and has the option of non-cap-consuming passive tanking unlike armor, EW or speed tanking. Only thing is active shield tanking is less cap efficient than active armor tanking with gisti stuff taking that outta the way, while armor tanking doesnt even have high-end modules as good as the gisti stuff. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Science Researcher	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:29:00 - [23] This personally makes me sad, you know this is gonna mainly nerf the drake, where is the myrmidon nerf? :( Now the drake wont have a viable defense against the myrmidons huge damage and full rack of nos :( Well, seems the game is slowly nerfing away from any balance, and I am on the wrong end of it.
Kismo	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:45:00 - [24] Its a nerf to the vastly overpowered BC's everywhere - not just the Drake. But seriously, people don't actually passive tank Myrmidons (though this got a nerf too), they passive tank Drakes. What got a nerf is passive tanked BC's.
Science Researcher	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:47:00 - [25] YEah, but my point is this: drake can't field decent damage plust 6 nos, the only defense drake gets against a ship like the mymridon is its passive tank :( I was hoping to see a nos nerf with the passive tank nerf.
Jaedar Metron Artificial Horizons YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.13 07:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Science Researcher This personally makes me sad, you know this is gonna mainly nerf the drake, where is the myrmidon nerf? :( Now the drake wont have a viable defense against the myrmidons huge damage and full rack of nos :( Well, seems the game is slowly nerfing away from any balance, and I am on the wrong end of it. Lets follow the general advice when the devs break something that isnt broken and turn a blind eye to it and adapt. Lets both train for gallente cruisers and then we can pwn the nubs who didnt adapt!!!1!!eleventyone Sweet plan On a more constructive note, Yes indeed, the allslot passive tanking was broken. They just fixed it the wrong way. A few months back when the Drakes were new, me and a corpmate were testing out different setups for the Drake. I were using HAM's, med nos, 2 BCU, 2 PDS and a semi-passive tank (hardeners and extenders+rigs) + scram and web. He were using HM's, med nos, 2 BCU, dmg control, pds and an active tank with rigs + scram and ab. Our skilllevels in shields and missiles were around the same levels. When the fight was over, I had won, but only by a small margin. A really small one. His tank was also much greater than mine shortterm, only in long engagements would my tank prove better than his. And what do the devs do? Indeed, they nerf the rechargetime on the ships. Whoppe-de-do! Havent really tested it yet, but considering how the fight ended the last time, the active setup is king now. Not only is it better in short combat, the 200 or so nerf on rechargetime have made it harder to break than the passive tank. Yay. away with the passive tanking unless, you got it, youre fighting against a nosboat. Like the Myrm. Indeed . This sandbox is great by the way. Most of the toys got a nifty manual for use with them. If you dont follow it you'll lose out, my castle looks nicer than yours because I used the right sand, muahahaha. All the diversive toys are gone, somebody flushed them down the toilet Oh wait, still a few of them here. One of them kinda looks like a whale, but whatever. Yeah, bad analogy or whatever you call it, but I felt for ranting
Xori Ruscuv Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.13 09:05:00 - [27] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 13/05/2007 09:06:45 I vote for the op to recieve the "smartest eve player" award. Everyone knows passive shield tanking had a nerf coming. If you didn't believe it - if you thought it was balanced - you are just deluding yourself. Now then - dear CCP: Now that you've fixed that, get to work on NOS. Thank you. I had to nerf my sig... is it ok now Hutch? :(
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.13 09:18:00 - [28] Edited by: goodby4u on 13/05/2007 09:16:04 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 13/05/2007 04:51:31 Originally by: Jackal79 Not only can a myrmidon do 600DPS (more than a siege II raven) I'll stop you right there and call BS. Raven is capable of far higher DPS than that last I checked. Myrm is overpowered though because it's the only BC that uses BS sized weapons. My alt runs missions with a raven and he hits 780s a torp every 8 seconds so...780*6/8=580...Thats with warhead upgrades 4,torps 5 torp specialisation 4 bs 5 etc... __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Liang Nuren Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.13 10:00:00 - [29] line 169616 should read 140000 instead of 125000 I edited quickfit to allow for the new 1400 sec recharge time on the Drake, and came up with the following (for a less than perfectly skilled tanker, shields at 5, most other skills at 4): Drake Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ 16493 shield, 180.12/s, E/T/K/Ex=58/66/75/83 4882 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/44/25/10 3515.625 cap, +3.75/s, -10.77/s 168.0 m/s 262.3 DPS Tankable DPS (Indefinitely): EM: 428 Exp: 1059 Kin: 720 Thm: 529 Average: 684 This is still a better than than a dual repper rigged cap injected complete level 5 skilled Myrmidon tank (that it so frequently gets compared to). Myrmidon Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Light Neutron Blaster II [80xVoid S] Light Neutron Blaster II [80xVoid S] J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [1xCap Booster 800] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Rigs : Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Nanobot Accelerator I \ Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II 4687 shield, 12.5/s, E/T/K/Ex=12/29/47/64 5860 armor, E/T/K/Ex=82/71/71/60 2636.71875 cap, +11.48/s, -76.663/s 725.0 m/s 474.3 DPS Tankable DPS (As long as you have cap boosters): Raw: 71.9*2 = 143.8 EM: 798 Exp: 359 Kin: 495 Thm: 495 Average: 536 This Drake can 3-4 volley the Ogre 2's, even with scoop/release, and cut the Myrmidons DPS to (almost) nothing... but its not like you don't have infinite time to do so. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance.
Vaine Amarr Amarr Upright Citizens Brigade	Posted - 2007.05.13 11:11:00 - [30] Originally by: 0raven0 Probably a passive shield tanking nerf? DIE DRAKE YAY, finally __________________________ It's great beeing Amarr, ain't it?

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