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OMG, shield nerf?

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Liang Nuren Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.13 18:17:00 - [61] Lets take this off of such a sensitive topic (the ISK generating Drake), and put it on a topic that people might have some perspective on: Before "nerf": Hurricane 425mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage M] 425mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage M] 425mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage M] 425mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage M] 425mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage M] 425mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage M] Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II [50xHellfire Rage Assault Missile] Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II [50xHellfire Rage Assault Missile] Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II 14606 shield, 228.03/s, E/T/K/Ex=30/43/57/71 5860 armor, E/T/K/Ex=69/35/25/10 3515.625 cap, +3.99/s, -3.2/s 198.0 m/s 516.4 DPS Tankable DPS: Raw: 228 EM: 325 Exp: 786 Kin: 530 Thm: 400 Average: 510 Post "Nerf": Hurricane [snip for brevity, its the same] 14606 shield, 203.6/s, E/T/K/Ex=30/43/57/71 [end snip] Tankable DPS: Raw: 203 EM: 290 Exp: 702 Kin: 473 Thm: 357 Average: 455 Average tank goes from 510 to 455 ... this is hardly a good hard swing of the "nerfbat". BTW, this Hurricane does MORE DPS than a Nos Myrmidon, and very nearly as much damage as a Myrmidon with a full load of AC up top. Oh, and you can't blow his DPS up. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.13 18:36:00 - [62] So what it does more DPS than a NOS Myrm? With no cap you can't tank. Ergo a NOS Myrm could do 50dps, and still beat you eventually. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
Liang Nuren Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.13 18:46:00 - [63] It uses 3 cap/sec for the invuln field - that's the only cap using device on the whole ship. Please pay attention. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 19:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby So, according to my math a Drake now tanks like the Ferox did and the Ferox is.... Worthless? Thanks for killing another ship. The Rox was already only worth it if you were a brand-new character that couldn't afford a Drake. PS-If you are going to kill our tank (and yes, upping the recharge time by 1/5th is killing our tank) can we have the ROF increase back that you took away for the stupid Kinetic bonus? The reason the ferox suck has nothing to do with tanking and never have. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Eardianm Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.13 20:03:00 - [65] Make my HAMs base 125 damage, and rage HAMS 150, and you can do whatever you want to the shield recharge rate. My problem is, you're nerfing the tanking, but our gank option was limited to start. I only fly HAM drakes with proper pvp fitting in mids, and love being able to at least partially solo some targets in a Caldari boat. But I can sure as hell tell you I don't engage any Myrm that is even possibly setup properly for pvp, and I think long and hard about engaging the other tier 2 BCs as well. Changing damage types doesn't mean crap when you run into a good omni tank. Whoopie, I'm stuck with sub-par damage across the board Meanwhile, I'd engage anything that moved if I had the skills to fly Myrm, who can still fit a proper tank or gank, along with the nos option, and laugh off this recharge nerf. AFAIK, this nerf will mean absolutely nothing to the other BCs, except the Ferox. But it's already close to flatline anyway. --------------
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.05.13 20:25:00 - [66] Tier1 Battlecruisers need a buff, all this does it nerf them at the same time as tier2's and for what? To nerf one ship due to one build type? CCP fix this damnit, or do you want to make tier1's completely worthless?
Liang Nuren Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.13 20:54:00 - [67] Tier 1 BC's need a buff, but it has nothing to do with a shield recharge nerf. When was the last time you actually saw a passive tanked Ferox? I know it was all the rage a year ago, but the Drake really does it better all the way around. Though, +1 to Tier 1 BC's getting a buff. =) Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!
Cyberus	Posted - 2007.05.13 21:54:00 - [68] hehe. This game is doomed!!! Probebly there will be only one desent ship to fly after 2 years and that is HULK. So ppl start train now..... slowly !
C Spawn Abyss Restless Proper Response	Posted - 2007.05.13 21:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Cyberus hehe. This game is doomed!!! Probebly there will be only one desent ship to fly after 2 years and that is HULK. So ppl start train now..... slowly ! Hmmm... I think we've found what to nerf next - the Hulk!
Rexian Slavegirl	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:07:00 - [70] Typical... I just got the skills to fly a drake, and almost the cash to buy one. On the other hand, my alt flies Amarr and this does next to nothing to the Harbinger... so for him I say, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Finally a nerf that brings Amarr outta the bargain basement!!
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari Gallente Federal Bank FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:08:00 - [71] myrmid - shoot the drones problem solved.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:09:00 - [72] Originally by: Jackal79 Uh, I dunno what game you guys are playing but the hardest BC class tank I've run into is a myrmidon armor tank with duel reps. Not only can a myrmidon do 600DPS (more than a siege II raven), but it can also tank nearly as hard as a battleship, especially if it sacrifices some of that DPS for a bit of NOS. Who came up with 7.5% for gallente tanking bonuses anyhow? Can't the drake and rokh get 7.5% resists bonuses per level to resists? I can see that gallente are supposed to be the more powerful race - and thats OK, but if I have to give up all the useful PvP gear to shield tank then my shield tank should freaking be alot stronger than an armor tank. Oh god you cant be serious. I would take a 5% resist bonus any day of the week on my myrmadon instead of this stupid 7.5% rep ammount.
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG The State	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:12:00 - [73] Originally by: Liang Nuren It uses 3 cap/sec for the invuln field - that's the only cap using device on the whole ship. Please pay attention. Liang You referred to a Hurricane, not a Drake. Keep up with your OWN argument, please. Thanks. Dark Flare - Corpus PCG
ChalSto The Galactic Empire Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:14:00 - [74] Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus myrmid - shoot the drones problem solved. Yea....shoot the drones of a Blaster-Myrmidon.....problem.....uhm.......ups......... Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
Big Al The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:25:00 - [75] Just goes to show, crying like little girls = results.
Spacer John	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:42:00 - [76] OK guys, we can all stop with the charade. They got us, the Drake's reign of terror is over. At least I have all those great memories of blowing away ship after ship with my insane tank.
Kermis Caldari Cryo Crypt inc.	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:47:00 - [77] Edited by: Kermis on 13/05/2007 22:48:08 This nerf is really stupid imo. Ok, so a Drake has the tank, but absolutley no gank what so ever. Yeah, sure, fit a scram, but who are you gonna keep in range of it? Oh, yeah, you also need a web and AB, and keep all that stuff running. Oh wait, where's your passive tank now? When was the last time you got killed by a passive tanked Drake? They better change that stupid kinetic damage bonus to a ROF bonus so we can atleast get some gank out of an active tanked drake!
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.13 22:51:00 - [78] Originally by: Jaedar Metron Great. Thanks alot whiners. Guess I have to fit an active tank on my Drake to get any sort of decent tank while trying to do anything other than PvE. Really, thanks. No prob. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Jaedar Metron Artificial Horizons YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.13 23:22:00 - [79] Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Jaedar Metron Great. Thanks alot whiners. Guess I have to fit an active tank on my Drake to get any sort of decent tank while trying to do anything other than PvE. Really, thanks. No prob. Say it after me: "Diversity"
Augeas	Posted - 2007.05.14 00:38:00 - [80] The only piece of balancing more stupid than this that I can imagine would be something along the lines of giving a DDD a 5-second ROF. And allowing it to be fitted to a Rifter. Full passive Drakes were virtually useless in pvp. Solo, you flew away, killed it slowly or got your gang to kill it quickly. In gang, it was left to last then killed. Oh well, let's see if I really can armour- and EWAR-tank the thing after all...
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.14 00:49:00 - [81] Very bad move, hope it does not make it to tq. Seriously, whats the reason ? DPS on ships gets higher due new faction ammo + weapon overload. Shieldboostera and armor reppers will get more effective due overload. But instead improving passive shieldtanks accordingly they got ... even nerfed ? Makes no sense, looks like those "omg omg my balsterhon cant kill a drake in under 1 minute"-gallente-whiners again had success.
Kieren Rei	Posted - 2007.05.14 00:51:00 - [82] I am going to focus on the Drake seeing as it really is the main focus of this change. ____ I have flown a Drake since their introduction, both in PvE and PvP. In both cases, I have found myself on the receiving end of quite a bit of damage and have been able to either tank it, or get out in time. However, my damage was/is lackluster. In running lvl 4s, I find my Drake taking 2x-3x as long to complete a mission because of the low damage output. Even against the battleships, I'm doing around 80-100 damage per missile. This equates to slow missions and high ammo consumption. There are some missions that just aren't possible with that kind of damage output. In PvP, the exact same is true. My damage per missile was in the 50-70 range. That was before I was hit with ECM and sensor dampeners. Once those locked onto me, I was a slow, sitting duck, unable to move, flee, or fire. The other gang had all the time in the world to chew through me. Granted, it took them nearly 3 minutes with the BS, 2 BCs, and cruiser, but I was still dead in the water and unable to do squat. In the few cases where I have used the Drake in damage output form for PvP, I wish I had taken a Raven or a cruiser. The Raven vastly outperforms in the damage category while the cruisers have more use in tackling/scrambling or other support role. In my opinion, the Battleships and cruisers do a much better job in a respective role than the Drake for their price. The Drake is just too high (for the average player) to use as a throwaway/willing to be lost ship and too ineffective in damage/support to warrant pouring ISK into. With some basic testing on the test server, I have found that my recharge time with my current fittings will increase by 30-40 seconds. I haven't played with the change enough yet to see to what extent it will effect my tank, but I am suspecting that it will be enough to make lvl4s much more interesting. PvP will see some balance from the super tank, but for anyone going straight tank, they won't be hurt by a tremendous margin. My fitting for reference: Mid: 2x hardener, 1x resist amp, 1x Shield Recharger2, 2x Large Shield Extender2 Low: 2x BCU2, 2x SPR2 (Sometimes I will switch the Recharger for another resist amp) I hope this in some way, shape, or form helps. Everyone needs to remember, no matter how hard or how much we discuss, call for nerfs, or make a ruckus, CCP will do what it thinks best. If it turns out that the change doesn't work, they have the power to change it again. We may not see them, but they are watching and working to keep the game playable and find equitable balances. Let's not turn them away from a good thread with a few bad posts.
Larshus Magrus Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:08:00 - [83] Edited by: Larshus Magrus on 14/05/2007 01:07:41 This quite silly. To put it simply: # Myrm passive tanks better than a drake before and after this nerf. # Myrm active tanks better than a drake before and after this nerf. # Myrm does double+ the damage of the drake before and after this nerf. (While passive tanking) People are screaming for the Drake to be nerfed. WTF? Thank god I can fly a Myrm :). Unless you love missiles or already fly Caldari there is no real reason to pick a Drake over a Myrm. Really.
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:10:00 - [84] Originally by: Rid*** Valer* Hey, can we get mining barges nerfed? These ships have only one strength, mining, and they are way too good at it. I mean, is it really fair no other ships can mine as well as this ship? We have bigger ships that can't even mins as well. True, they are expensive and take a lot of dedicated SP, but that shouldn't mean they are better. I know, people will say they suck for PvP, but that doesn't matter. They beat up on roids way too easily. In fact, no roid in the game can tank against them. This needs an obvious nerf. LoL - This is so true but my Proph with 5 Miner II comes awfully close. And before anybody says the ship can't handle that many miner II - I used almost all of my low slots for processors and had a Drake over my shoulder for rats.
JamnOne	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:14:00 - [85] Originally by: Badhands This is not a nerf. It is a balance. BCs should never have had the same shield recharge as cruisers. Why not? They are a mixture of cruisers and battleships - right?
Dark Kavar Caldari Aionios Diadochi The Makhai	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:33:00 - [86] Originally by: JamnOne Originally by: Rid*** Valer* Hey, can we get mining barges nerfed? These ships have only one strength, mining, and they are way too good at it. I mean, is it really fair no other ships can mine as well as this ship? We have bigger ships that can't even mins as well. True, they are expensive and take a lot of dedicated SP, but that shouldn't mean they are better. I know, people will say they suck for PvP, but that doesn't matter. They beat up on roids way too easily. In fact, no roid in the game can tank against them. This needs an obvious nerf. LoL - This is so true but my Proph with 5 Miner II comes awfully close. And before anybody says the ship can't handle that many miner II - I used almost all of my low slots for processors and had a Drake over my shoulder for rats. And my osprey can mine almost as much as a retriever too, mabey more if I put a mining upgrade on.... Kind of like the Triforce in Zelda, only not quite as potent.
Romale Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.05.14 01:58:00 - [87] i dont know why all of you are complaining, the drake in ubertank mode is freaking worthless, it does crap damage, has crap speed its worthless, yes you can make a drake do damage but you can forget that nice passive shield tank to do it and it requires rigs. So what if its hard to kill it can still be done, and if you get killed by a passive shield tanked drake you should pod yourself period.
ssorion Caldari The First Foundation Stella Polar	Posted - 2007.05.14 02:44:00 - [88] Drake had horribly low DPS. Drake was lacking EW capabilities, even web+disrupter hurted it tank alot. ONLY its feature was nice passive tank. Now its same horribly low DPS, lack of mids due to tank, and sucky tank in result. Just remove drakes completely from the game then, they will be useless after this patch anyway. Good job on rebalancing caldari in line with amarrs.
xXHitmanXx	Posted - 2007.05.14 04:22:00 - [89] Way to go........ Ok Heres the prob. with the nerf. Shield tankers always had the prob. of fitting stuff like mwd, scram, web, Stuff like that bcz it uses there tank slots. Shore the drake had a mean passive tank but it cant keep u from moveing and warping off if it didnt use some of its med slots. Also everyone always complianed about the new bc's being overpowered now that you guys got the drake nerfed lets see the myrm. get nerfed as well.
Liang Nuren Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.14 04:56:00 - [90] Originally by: xXHitmanXx Way to go........ Ok Heres the prob. with the nerf. Shield tankers always had the prob. of fitting stuff like mwd, scram, web, Stuff like that bcz it uses there tank slots. Shore the drake had a mean passive tank but it cant keep u from moveing and warping off if it didnt use some of its med slots. Also everyone always complianed about the new bc's being overpowered now that you guys got the drake nerfed lets see the myrm. get nerfed as well. What you say is true, but armor tankers have trouble putting damage mods on because its severely nerfs their tank. However, this nerf is NOT THAT BAD. It took the Drake from a "wtf nobody will ever solo this tank" to a "wow, that's a damn fine tank". It's a little bit of rebalancing - there was no reason for battle cruisers (of any variety) to have battleship strength shields and cruiser recharges. Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. I feel the need for speed!

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