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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.01.05 15:46:00 -
[1]
High slot. Turret. Laser or something so drains cap when active at some rate. Autofires at any threat-missiles within its effective (relatively short) range for it's (relatively short) activation time. Is NOT a guaranteed hit, subject to missile agility etc., must actually track hit and destroy missile via stats like all other guns vs. ships.
* sacrifices a weapon slot
* In function sorta like trying to use a smartbomb to hit missiles, but somewhat longer range, and no offensive capabilites.
* would just look SO FRICKIN COOL
* would save missiles across the board from constant nerfing.
* Would make more use of missile agility.
* Would lower the flood of kestrel missileboats without nerfing missiles as much for everyone else.
* would just look SO FRICKIN COOL.
uh... that's all the justification i can come up with atm 
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Seray
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Posted - 2004.01.05 17:01:00 -
[2]
i like the idea 
or how would be an ecm module that either destroyes incoming missiles or send em back to the deployer.
did someone test what happens when useing an ecm burst when missiles would be close enough?
theoretical the missile should loose the target (most time me  ) and fly lets say strictly forward, so you can dodge it, but that would need a greater range of maybe such a specialiced ecm burst (10km is a bit short if a missile fly 1-2km/s)
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Drethen Nerevitas
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Posted - 2004.01.05 17:19:00 -
[3]
Why laser?
Throw in a flak cannon type thing for the minnies, and a multibarrelled rapid fire railgun.
Flak needs ammo. That means reloading after prolonged firing. Does less damage than laser, but it explodes in a flak cloud, so it's kind of hard to miss with.
But apart from that...yes  .
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IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.
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cypriss
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Posted - 2004.01.05 19:32:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Throw in a flak cannon type thing for the minnies, and a multibarrelled rapid fire railgun.
Quote:
or how would be an ecm module that either destroyes incoming missiles or send em back to the deployer.
these are great ideas. but lets balance it more. lets say that cruise missles are made from a heavier, harder material than ships so that flak/rounds bounce off of it, but with its guidence system a missle ECM can send it off on a different course (say a moon or planet), torpedoes on the other hand, with no guidence system aren't effected by the ECM but can be blown up by flak/rounds.
this way 1 mod wouldn't render a missle boat obsolete. other factors to include are ECM and turret only being able to target a certain amt of missles at once (new skill)so that with enough missles fired, a couple may get through.
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Sissorena
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Posted - 2004.01.05 21:18:00 -
[5]
What about flares i think it would look cool as hell to see a flare shoot out of your ship and depending on the type of missle your skills and the attackers skills the missle would think it's u and go after the flare. that would be so sweet to see like a yellow ball of light shoot out of your ship at like 5k m/s then just watch the missle change course and kaboom it blows up 15 meeters away from you.
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.01.05 22:16:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Why laser?
Throw in a flak cannon type thing for the minnies, and a multibarrelled rapid fire railgun.
Flak needs ammo. That means reloading after prolonged firing. Does less damage than laser, but it explodes in a flak cloud, so it's kind of hard to miss with.
But apart from that...yes .
*doh* what is the sound of one forehead smacking?
Of course, all the basic racial weptypes should have a version. Very nice
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.01.05 22:18:00 -
[7]
Quote:
these are great ideas. but lets balance it more. lets say that cruise missles are made from a heavier, harder material than ships so that flak/rounds bounce off of it,
nono... key to balance is, you never "say" it, you do it. Make the cruise missiles out of sterner stuff then. Nothing should ever "just not work," either.
WHat (i think) you really mean is: the different methods should be variously effective against different missiles. And i agree . But you never "declare" something in a game, you set it up so the game mechanics more or less make it happen.
It sadly allows exploits until its tuned and tightened... but it is also the only way to reward and encourage logistical, tactical, and just-plain-whacktical thinking. |
LB424
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Posted - 2004.01.05 22:36:00 -
[8]
I too brought up this idea a month or so ago but the most constructive response I received was it would make ships with lots of turrets too powerful.
I however, think it's a great idea still. If you're devoting turrets to do Missile defense they're not doing offense. Doesn't seem too powerful to me when you can't shoot at someone else. I also think throwing in active counter-measures would be great. Chaff, Flares etc. Heck, you could even use the countermeasures to break locks on your ship from other ships (at the expense of counter-measure ammo).
You could use the programming from the auto-targeting systems for the defnesive turrets. Then it's just an on/off system.
All hail the glorious point defense system!
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2004.01.06 03:11:00 -
[9]
balance would be achieved by implementing an agility bonus, skill related, to all missiles.
Really good idea.
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Soulstinger
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Posted - 2004.01.30 02:59:00 -
[10]
Shweet.
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Gamma Garone
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Posted - 2004.08.23 16:13:00 -
[11]
Big prob at the moment is to counter missile launchers properly you need missile launchers.
Doesn't really make sense when you look at all the other methods of attack in the game. They all have an opposite counter. For example:
Someone sniping at you? Use speed to get in close and spank them.
Drones pestering you? Get the fast-tracking turrets out.
BS ruining your day? Get your frigate wolf-pack together.
Interceptors running rings around you? Smart bomb.
Some monkey in a missile boat launches a missile at you? Errrr...fire a Defender *missile* back.
ATM it's either you're totally protected or totally hanging in the breeze. And smart-bombs aren't a valid solution unless you don't have any friends.
Everything else balances more or less well. Some dedicated point-defence gattling guns/flak cannons/pulse lasers or chaff/flare type countermeasures are realistic and cool.
And they'll really annoy those goose-stepping Caldari.
It's not personality that counts, it's calibre... |
Gamma Garone
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Posted - 2004.08.23 16:13:00 -
[12]
Big prob at the moment is to counter missile launchers properly you need missile launchers.
Doesn't really make sense when you look at all the other methods of attack in the game. They all have an opposite counter. For example:
Someone sniping at you? Use speed to get in close and spank them.
Drones pestering you? Get the fast-tracking turrets out.
BS ruining your day? Get your frigate wolf-pack together.
Interceptors running rings around you? Smart bomb.
Some monkey in a missile boat launches a missile at you? Errrr...fire a Defender *missile* back.
ATM it's either you're totally protected or totally hanging in the breeze. And smart-bombs aren't a valid solution unless you don't have any friends.
Everything else balances more or less well. Some dedicated point-defence gattling guns/flak cannons/pulse lasers or chaff/flare type countermeasures are realistic and cool.
And they'll really annoy those goose-stepping Caldari.
It's not personality that counts, it's calibre... |
Amicus
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Posted - 2004.08.24 00:45:00 -
[13]
I really like the idea of flares. I suspect the graphics would be complicated to make, but ooh so impressive if they can do it. 
I like the idea of flack guns, however, I think that the smart bomb was probably intended to play that role. It is true that smart bombs have a lot of problems as a missile defense system, but then perhaps we should be talking about improving them.
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Amicus
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Posted - 2004.08.24 00:45:00 -
[14]
I really like the idea of flares. I suspect the graphics would be complicated to make, but ooh so impressive if they can do it.
I like the idea of flack guns, however, I think that the smart bomb was probably intended to play that role. It is true that smart bombs have a lot of problems as a missile defense system, but then perhaps we should be talking about improving them.
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Krugari
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Posted - 2004.08.24 01:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: LB424
I too brought up this idea a month or so ago but the most constructive response I received was it would make ships with lots of turrets too powerful
What about making it a drone then? Maybe a close-orbit medium drone with the ability to take down incomming missiles and a very low RoF. Keeping the RoF low would mean having to launch multiple pointdefence drones to keep up a decent defence, allowing the user to trade defence for offence by launching different ratios of offensive/defensive drones. Dronesize could of course be varied to make the drone easier/harder to hit or enable users to carry more/fewer at a time.
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Krugari
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Posted - 2004.08.24 01:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: LB424
I too brought up this idea a month or so ago but the most constructive response I received was it would make ships with lots of turrets too powerful
What about making it a drone then? Maybe a close-orbit medium drone with the ability to take down incomming missiles and a very low RoF. Keeping the RoF low would mean having to launch multiple pointdefence drones to keep up a decent defence, allowing the user to trade defence for offence by launching different ratios of offensive/defensive drones. Dronesize could of course be varied to make the drone easier/harder to hit or enable users to carry more/fewer at a time.
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Gamma Garone
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Posted - 2004.08.24 12:03:00 -
[17]
Or you could make them really tiny (like 10m3) and have them as itty-bitty kamikaze drones, flying straight into the missile and chewing the warhead off.
Not quite as cool as flak/gattling guns/flares though...
I think this idea is picking up momentum with more and more posts...
Some people are saying that this is being solved by nerfing missiles soon. Foolishness. Even if they nerf missiles, a lot of people still won't have defences against them (unlike all the other attack forms) which is why we're ranting.
It's not personality that counts, it's calibre... |
Gamma Garone
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Posted - 2004.08.24 12:03:00 -
[18]
Or you could make them really tiny (like 10m3) and have them as itty-bitty kamikaze drones, flying straight into the missile and chewing the warhead off.
Not quite as cool as flak/gattling guns/flares though...
I think this idea is picking up momentum with more and more posts...
Some people are saying that this is being solved by nerfing missiles soon. Foolishness. Even if they nerf missiles, a lot of people still won't have defences against them (unlike all the other attack forms) which is why we're ranting.
It's not personality that counts, it's calibre... |
Krugari
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Posted - 2004.08.24 17:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gamma Garone
Some people are saying that this is being solved by nerfing missiles soon. Foolishness. Even if they nerf missiles, a lot of people still won't have defences against them (unlike all the other attack forms) which is why we're ranting.
Well it's not so much that there is no defence against missiles - more like people don't use what's there and then think "Ouch, those are uber" once those torps hit home. A single rocketlauncher with defenders will defeat 3 heavy launchers and 4-5 sieges given a decent lvl of the defender skill and distance to the target. I've tried this and survived several volleys of FoF cruises from a Raven flying my Blackbird. Once people get into a battleship though, the mentality changes and they feel they should be able to shrug off damage - I've not once used defenders on my Scorp for instance. And could you clarify what you mean by saying that all other attackforms can be more easily countered? I don't see any specific anti-drone weapons for instance. Also, as I understand it Caldari are supposed to have the most modern combatships, which is why (untill last patch at least) they sucked at everything else. But we knew this when we picked our race (I did anyway, as most likely everyone else who read any kind of manual/background info did) and we're prepared to support the highest ammocosts of any race and lowest industrial potential.
Part of the problem as I see it (and no i'm not completely opposed to the anti-missile turret/drone idea) is that everyone apparently thinks that the races should apparently be even in all respects. Ok sure, lets bring missiles down to a level where every other race can keep up damagewise, but then they need to be half cost, the caldari need a 7 turret bs for mining and a badger mk5 that carries a kazzillion m3 of ore at time. And actually so do the minmatar and amarr, and oh they all need bigger dronebays too and dronebonuses and and and...
I DON'T think the races should be completely even in all areas (in case you missed it ), all the miners are trained up for amarr or gallente anyways, so why is it so unfair that caldari should be better at combat (and its not even the race, its just the ships)? The new Osprey bonus is just a symptom of all the "that guy is better at something than me, do something about it!" attitude that's going around.
People are even starting to air ideas like making the different races have different trainingtimes for individual skillclasses because, to be honest, the only difference between races right now is their portraits and starting systems. This, to put it plainly, sucks, and takes away from roleplay and any consequences that choice of race might once have had. If the average poster on the boards had his/her way we'd all be one big happy family of Galcalamatar, and the Eve universe would be a very bland place indeed...
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Krugari
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Posted - 2004.08.24 17:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gamma Garone
Some people are saying that this is being solved by nerfing missiles soon. Foolishness. Even if they nerf missiles, a lot of people still won't have defences against them (unlike all the other attack forms) which is why we're ranting.
Well it's not so much that there is no defence against missiles - more like people don't use what's there and then think "Ouch, those are uber" once those torps hit home. A single rocketlauncher with defenders will defeat 3 heavy launchers and 4-5 sieges given a decent lvl of the defender skill and distance to the target. I've tried this and survived several volleys of FoF cruises from a Raven flying my Blackbird. Once people get into a battleship though, the mentality changes and they feel they should be able to shrug off damage - I've not once used defenders on my Scorp for instance. And could you clarify what you mean by saying that all other attackforms can be more easily countered? I don't see any specific anti-drone weapons for instance. Also, as I understand it Caldari are supposed to have the most modern combatships, which is why (untill last patch at least) they sucked at everything else. But we knew this when we picked our race (I did anyway, as most likely everyone else who read any kind of manual/background info did) and we're prepared to support the highest ammocosts of any race and lowest industrial potential.
Part of the problem as I see it (and no i'm not completely opposed to the anti-missile turret/drone idea) is that everyone apparently thinks that the races should apparently be even in all respects. Ok sure, lets bring missiles down to a level where every other race can keep up damagewise, but then they need to be half cost, the caldari need a 7 turret bs for mining and a badger mk5 that carries a kazzillion m3 of ore at time. And actually so do the minmatar and amarr, and oh they all need bigger dronebays too and dronebonuses and and and...
I DON'T think the races should be completely even in all areas (in case you missed it ), all the miners are trained up for amarr or gallente anyways, so why is it so unfair that caldari should be better at combat (and its not even the race, its just the ships)? The new Osprey bonus is just a symptom of all the "that guy is better at something than me, do something about it!" attitude that's going around.
People are even starting to air ideas like making the different races have different trainingtimes for individual skillclasses because, to be honest, the only difference between races right now is their portraits and starting systems. This, to put it plainly, sucks, and takes away from roleplay and any consequences that choice of race might once have had. If the average poster on the boards had his/her way we'd all be one big happy family of Galcalamatar, and the Eve universe would be a very bland place indeed...
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Krugari
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Posted - 2004.08.24 17:36:00 -
[21]
I kinda like the disposable-suicide-defencedrone idea though... That got lost somewhere halfway through my previous post.
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Krugari
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Posted - 2004.08.24 17:36:00 -
[22]
I kinda like the disposable-suicide-defencedrone idea though... That got lost somewhere halfway through my previous post.
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