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OMG FREIGHTER FIX!

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Dop Sutol	Posted - 2007.05.14 15:20:00 - [31] Originally by: ToxicFire Originally by: Slythought More simple solution and you can use it today... GET ESCORTS AND SCOUTS!!! Empire is not a safe haven, just "Safer" than 0.0.. Stop whining! Rofl, your saying thats a solution to what is basicly exploitation of an ingame mechanic to grief another player, eitherway ccp has seen right to fix it, concordoken has been boosted on sisi and targets drones, nigh impossible to do enough damage in time to pop a freighter now. Guess Empire NPC corp driven Freighters will now have zero risk and plenty of reward. I'm in a NPC, guess I should just grind missions to get my freighter. People like to talk about risk/reward crap, well guess what? All the risk is gone if a lone freighter can move through any space without fear of death and they can make PLENTY of reward. And I love these armchair Mods who call everything an exploit. If what the Privateers did was an exploit, then they would be banned. If suicide ganking were an exploit, then gankers would be banned. Just because the Devs NERF something, it does not mean the previous action was an exploit. I think it just means the Devs were hung over and want to take it out on the pirates and criminals of Eve.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.05.14 15:21:00 - [32] High Sec should not be 100% safe. Anyone should be free to attack anyone else whenever they like. But, as Concord have already arrived due to the equivalent of a 999 / 911 call, then the ambulances turn up in high sec too to remote armour and shield rep too. Then the fire brigade turn up to extiguish any flames from 90 % hull gankage. If anyone STILL manages to destroy your ship, the SAS turn up and guard your can until you come back to get your stuff. Insurance continues to work just like RL. The insurance companies take your money, then whine and stall forever when it comes to actually pay you anything. There ... now send me all your ISKies cos I've just fixed Eve! ------------------------------------- Hold my calls and sack my cook -------------------------------------
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Slythought More simple solution and you can use it today... GET ESCORTS AND SCOUTS!!! Empire is not a safe haven, just "Safer" than 0.0.. Stop whining! How are you supposed to escort a freighter in empire? How do you expect to stop 30 suicide ships? At least in 0.0 you can pre-emptively attack them, or use carriers for repping! Btw. I also like insurance payout removed for suicide ganking. But about the scout question: If you web the freighter with a rapier/huggin, the attackers have only the lock time of the rapier/huggin to scramble you, otherwise you are gone. I supported a freighter with my rapier for the first time today and it insta-warped after getting a lock. Didn't even show as locked sometimes. So maybe with 1 or 2 sensor boosters and rest webbers you cut the time between freighter decloaking and going into warp down to a second or less. That means that someone has to be at the gate to scramble the freighter faster than the rapier/huggin locks and his mates have to arrive there and hold or destroy the freighter, before concord arrives and jams everyone, because jam = no scrambler and freighter warps. Don't know how long it takes until everyone is jammed though. Guess it needs a good plan or a combination of suicide-scrambling and bumping to trap a freighter that gets scouted and has a rapier/huggin as support.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Dark Shikari Better fix: Remove insurance if your ship is killed by CONCORD. This makes suicide squads cost for more and makes them only worthwhile for very very valuable freighter loads. No. It will destroy the profession of Macro-Miner-Ganker, too, and you know that makes bunny sad. sig down temporarily Originally by: welsh wizard You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:10:00 - [35] Originally by: ToxicFire Originally by: Slythought More simple solution and you can use it today... GET ESCORTS AND SCOUTS!!! Empire is not a safe haven, just "Safer" than 0.0.. Stop whining! Rofl, your saying thats a solution to what is basicly exploitation of an ingame mechanic to grief another player, eitherway ccp has seen right to fix it, concordoken has been boosted on sisi and targets drones, nigh impossible to do enough damage in time to pop a freighter now. Please explain to me, the uneducated, barbaric pvp type... how it is an exploit? is piracy an exploit? is killing for money an exploit? Griefing... before freighters dropped loot it could be considered griefing... you're just trying to cause them hurt right? (unless you have a reason for hurting their wallet) and it happened what... once? ever? Freighters are becoming invincible again and CCP are bending over to rich alts. How many characters in eve can fly freighters? How many of these are in noob corps? Easy mode.. reactivated.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:25:00 - [36] Issue #1: Dominix's get around CONCORD's jamming by exploiting a technicality (perk?) of drones that allows them to continue to attack targets without their host ship being able to direct them. Issue #2: There is no active measure to prevent freighter ganking in high security, the BEST one can hope for is to see the blob with a scout, and go hide. This is not EVE, EVE would involve scouting out this blob, than bring your own blob in to gankspank the would-be gankers. This is why I believe freighter ganking should be considered an exploit; there is no preventative measures or preemptive action that the pilot can take to NOT be ganked in the true spirit of EVE.
Fswd	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Daniella Althera What is a freighter going to do with a +100% bonus to remote armor repairer range? Rep CONCORD Removing insurance payouts for the mighty CONCORDOKKEN is an idea but I feel like it screws over new players too much - perhaps insurance is only paid out the first or second time you're killed by CONCORD might be a good compromise. No it does not, I can still remember the big warning box --- So I flame and troll when the occasion calls for it. So what are you gonna do about it?
Dop Sutol	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Issue #1: Dominix's get around CONCORD's jamming by exploiting a technicality (perk?) of drones that allows them to continue to attack targets without their host ship being able to direct them. Issue #2: There is no active measure to prevent freighter ganking in high security, the BEST one can hope for is to see the blob with a scout, and go hide. This is not EVE, EVE would involve scouting out this blob, than bring your own blob in to gankspank the would-be gankers. This is why I believe freighter ganking should be considered an exploit; there is no preventative measures or preemptive action that the pilot can take to NOT be ganked in the true spirit of EVE. There are plenty of inactive measures though: 1- Avoid heavy populated systems with your freighter. (This would also fix Jita lag, a two-for-one OMG!!!!) 2- Do not follow a predictable pattern, this one is actually from REAL LIFE! You see armored cars take different routes and have schedules that change so they are not robbed. (but but but but, this is Eve, I don't want to think!) 3- Don't fly with what you can't afford to lose, Eve's golden rule! (But I want to move my 1 copy of each T2 BPO and a ton of faction mods in one huge freighter!) And know how I would fix the CONCORD exploit? I would take away their jamming abilities
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.14 16:36:00 - [39] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Issue #1: Dominix's get around CONCORD's jamming by exploiting a technicality (perk?) of drones that allows them to continue to attack targets without their host ship being able to direct them. Issue #2: There is no active measure to prevent freighter ganking in high security, the BEST one can hope for is to see the blob with a scout, and go hide. This is not EVE, EVE would involve scouting out this blob, than bring your own blob in to gankspank the would-be gankers. This is why I believe freighter ganking should be considered an exploit; there is no preventative measures or preemptive action that the pilot can take to NOT be ganked in the true spirit of EVE. You sir, have never run across a titan or mothership. EvE is not about fairness. You can wardec that blob and wipe them out in just 24 hours time... is hauling your crap that imperative that Jita cant wait 24 hours? If you really wanna grief them back... let their scout scan you.. dock... unload... insure freighter... jump anyway... and they will cry hax and you will hear the lamentations of their women etc. The changes being made suck because afk freighters go back to being money machines. It will still be possible to easilly gank a normal hauler... meaning the little guy... who has to make lots of runs... gets crapped on again. Nothing changes.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.14 17:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Dop Sutol Originally by: Derovius Vaden Issue #1: Dominix's get around CONCORD's jamming by exploiting a technicality (perk?) of drones that allows them to continue to attack targets without their host ship being able to direct them. Issue #2: There is no active measure to prevent freighter ganking in high security, the BEST one can hope for is to see the blob with a scout, and go hide. This is not EVE, EVE would involve scouting out this blob, than bring your own blob in to gankspank the would-be gankers. This is why I believe freighter ganking should be considered an exploit; there is no preventative measures or preemptive action that the pilot can take to NOT be ganked in the true spirit of EVE. There are plenty of inactive measures though: 1- Avoid heavy populated systems with your freighter. (This would also fix Jita lag, a two-for-one OMG!!!!) 2- Do not follow a predictable pattern, this one is actually from REAL LIFE! You see armored cars take different routes and have schedules that change so they are not robbed. (but but but but, this is Eve, I don't want to think!) 3- Don't fly with what you can't afford to lose, Eve's golden rule! (But I want to move my 1 copy of each T2 BPO and a ton of faction mods in one huge freighter!) And know how I would fix the CONCORD exploit? I would take away their jamming abilities 1. The entire purpose of a freighter is moving trade items to the hubs, its like telling pirates to stay out of low security, it just won't happen. 2. Armoured car drivers and guards as have some pew pew to defend themselves and their cargo... 3. This so-called golden rule only seems to apply to the victim, maybe if their was actually a risk of loss for the gankers, or a means for the freighter to recoup a higher % (equal to that of the griefers in terms of insurance), this golden rule might be acceptable.
Dop Sutol	Posted - 2007.05.14 17:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Dop Sutol Originally by: Derovius Vaden Issue #1: Dominix's get around CONCORD's jamming by exploiting a technicality (perk?) of drones that allows them to continue to attack targets without their host ship being able to direct them. Issue #2: There is no active measure to prevent freighter ganking in high security, the BEST one can hope for is to see the blob with a scout, and go hide. This is not EVE, EVE would involve scouting out this blob, than bring your own blob in to gankspank the would-be gankers. This is why I believe freighter ganking should be considered an exploit; there is no preventative measures or preemptive action that the pilot can take to NOT be ganked in the true spirit of EVE. There are plenty of inactive measures though: 1- Avoid heavy populated systems with your freighter. (This would also fix Jita lag, a two-for-one OMG!!!!) 2- Do not follow a predictable pattern, this one is actually from REAL LIFE! You see armored cars take different routes and have schedules that change so they are not robbed. (but but but but, this is Eve, I don't want to think!) 3- Don't fly with what you can't afford to lose, Eve's golden rule! (But I want to move my 1 copy of each T2 BPO and a ton of faction mods in one huge freighter!) And know how I would fix the CONCORD exploit? I would take away their jamming abilities 1. The entire purpose of a freighter is moving trade items to the hubs, its like telling pirates to stay out of low security, it just won't happen. 2. Armoured car drivers and guards as have some pew pew to defend themselves and their cargo... 3. This so-called golden rule only seems to apply to the victim, maybe if their was actually a risk of loss for the gankers, or a means for the freighter to recoup a higher % (equal to that of the griefers in terms of insurance), this golden rule might be acceptable. 1- Create more trade hubs. Instead of moving finished products from industrial areas, move commerce to industrial areas, less loss that way. This way freighters only move huge amounts of mins. 2- Get an escort. Those guys with pew pews are the guards, escorts, not the car. Though an armored car with a machine gun turret would be cool. 3- I can agree with an insurance nerf. The only other option, if suicide ganking is to be made impossible, would be that a requirement to own a freighter would be that you had to fly in a player corp. Freighters can make way too much isk in a limited amount of time, if there is no risk.
Mindblank Ricochet Inc Prismatic Refraction	Posted - 2007.05.14 17:21:00 - [42] Why don't give Freighters a build in damage control, no need to give them any fitting slots... in empire it'll take some time to get through that 100k structure or so they have with increased resists. Problem solved -= Currently recruiting Swedish players =-
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:30:00 - [43] Originally by: Plutoinum But about the scout question: If you web the freighter with a rapier/huggin, the attackers have only the lock time of the rapier/huggin to scramble you, otherwise you are gone. I supported a freighter with my rapier for the first time today and it insta-warped after getting a lock. Didn't even show as locked sometimes. So maybe with 1 or 2 sensor boosters and rest webbers you cut the time between freighter decloaking and going into warp down to a second or less. That means that someone has to be at the gate to scramble the freighter faster than the rapier/huggin locks and his mates have to arrive there and hold or destroy the freighter, before concord arrives and jams everyone, because jam = no scrambler and freighter warps. Don't know how long it takes until everyone is jammed though. Guess it needs a good plan or a combination of suicide-scrambling and bumping to trap a freighter that gets scouted and has a rapier/huggin as support. Still doesn't help the Freighter align time. You can get it into warp quickly... So long as it's already aligned. That is fine if the Freighter exits the gate already aligned to the target gate/station. The problem comes when it has to turn sometimes 180 degrees to align, it takes forever and then a while more. That gives a scrambler frigate ample time to lock and you still lose the Freighter. --
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Requiem of Hades	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:35:00 - [44] CCP need to do something against freighter griefing. Save the freighter. Save eVe. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:36:00 - [45] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire CCP need to do something against freighter griefing. Save the freighter. Save eVe. Prepare to get flamed, Anti-Jenny.
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:43:00 - [46] Originally by: Dop Sutol I think it just means the Devs were hung over and want to take it out on the pirates and criminals of Eve. nah, it just means that they felt the previous system gave one person an unfair advantage and they balanced things out. highsec freighter pilots farming missions and moving their lewts with no risk... meh, you can do the same in a hauler, you just take more time to do it. i think your problem is with the NPC-corp system, not freighters themselves. it's NPC corps who have impunity in high sec. the damned things should have a crippling tax on them (50%+) thus driving real players into real corps. ========================================== Iy
insidion	Posted - 2007.05.14 19:49:00 - [47] This is getting to be ridiculous. Freighters are massive ships that just move cargo. That's it. They don't do anything else. They don't need slots or rigs of any type, as that won't help the real issue anyways. Quote: Better fix: Remove insurance if your ship is killed by CONCORD. This makes suicide squads cost for more and makes them only worthwhile for very very valuable freighter loads. This would be a good fix if they can somehow isolate suicide ganks from truly legitimate 'accidents'. Quote: Then just apply the Revelations Capital Ship HP Boost to freighters. That would solve the problem also Following that mentality, freighters would only be allowed in 0.4 or lower. Sounds good to me, but think that will only exasperate the situation. =P If you want something with slots, then fly a transport ship. Stop looking for a 'I win' solution with empire freighters. It's been said any number of times, but if you're getting picked on or afraid to lose your expensive toy (and you should be regardless of where you're flying it) then team up with people to help you achieve your goals. There's strength in numbers.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.15 08:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Drizit Still doesn't help the Freighter align time. You can get it into warp quickly... So long as it's already aligned. That is fine if the Freighter exits the gate already aligned to the target gate/station. The problem comes when it has to turn sometimes 180 degrees to align, it takes forever and then a while more. No, it doesn't. When you jump into a system you are not facing anywhere for the game. Whatever target you pick first is the one you are facing to. You get into warp to a target which "seems" to be right in front of you in the same time as to one with "seems" to be 180¦ behind you.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Aramendel No, it doesn't. When you jump into a system you are not facing anywhere for the game. Whatever target you pick first is the one you are facing to. You get into warp to a target which "seems" to be right in front of you in the same time as to one with "seems" to be 180¦ behind you. Thats BS. Your ship DOES have a default aligned direction at 0 speed, and if you want to go to something behind you, prepare to turn the beast around. sig down temporarily Originally by: welsh wizard You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:10:00 - [50] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 15/05/2007 09:09:00 Originally by: Firkragg Originally by: Dark Shikari Better fix: Remove insurance if your ship is killed by CONCORD. This makes suicide squads cost for more and makes them only worthwhile for very very valuable freighter loads. Im sorry to diagree with DS himself but i think this is a bad idea. In my time in eve ive lost two ships to concord. Both times it wasnt because i attacked another player but instead it was down to some stupid action suck as accidently targetting and firing on a mission structure rather than a npc. I would have been devestated if i hadnt have gotton my insurance pay out due to one act of accidental stupidity. Okay. Now... Isn't one of the primary arguments of the ganker-crowd that solo-freighters in empire are stupid and thus deserve punishment? Isn't one of the main features of EVE that it is much less tolerant of stupidity and carelessness than other games? And wouldn't that mean in turn that removing insurance from ALL concord ganks would be just furthering the spirit of EVE? Because really, the only way to be concorded in highsec IS doing something stupid or careless. Be it targetting stuff on the overview in a gank-craze with hot mods, having turned of the criminal warnings, shooting gangmate cans... Really, if you do something stupid you deserve the punishment. Only downside I would let count was macro-ganking, but really, do people use ships where insurance matters to gank them? I thought that was done with swarms of caracals or kessies... - Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in turret
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.15 09:21:00 - [51] Edited by: Aramendel on 15/05/2007 09:24:28 Originally by: Sokratesz Thats BS. Your ship DOES have a default aligned direction at 0 speed, and if you want to go to something behind you, prepare to turn the beast around. Obviously your ship has to face somewhere after jumping in, but it's only graphically. Test it, then say it's BS. It has been verified by multiple people already. Hell, everyone who has ever done a freighter op with webbers should know this, they warp instantly as soon as webbed, no matter where their warp target is.
Sikozu Prioris W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.15 14:30:00 - [52] Removing insurance payouts from getting concord'd is a very bad idea. Yea it would stop most suicide ganks but why should someone who say accidently shot a mate they were doin a mission with not receive a payout. They is no way to tell the two apart. I know that I have shot a gang mate by accident at least once and got suitably punished by it. I would be ****ed off not to get insurance from a simple accident. Prehaps if removeal of insurance when you get concord'd is implemented the person being attacked should get a dialog box saying if they need any assistance from concord. This would solve the problem of being unfair to the accidents that do happen as it is up to the victom to choose if concord should attack (unless of course in an accidental situation the victom is very evil ) Extra Heavy Drone Specialization Rank (8) LEVEL 4 SP: 362,039/2,048,000
Caldess 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: heheheh Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Slythought More simple solution and you can use it today... GET ESCORTS AND SCOUTS!!! Empire is not a safe haven, just "Safer" than 0.0.. Stop whining! How are you supposed to escort a freighter in empire? How do you expect to stop 30 suicide ships? At least in 0.0 you can pre-emptively attack them, or use carriers for repping! you scout to see if they are there?, you use remote reppers ?, there are many more solutions but seeing as though you are only here to talk crap i wont give you any more. Use your brain for once DS. How many remote reppers do you need to counter 30 battleships? Hint: Its a lot. Especially when a freighter has only 20k armor. Maybe they should have remote hardeners! --------------
Augeas	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:32:00 - [54] Quote: Maybe they should have remote hardeners! Or maybe just a single nano-Scorpion with 'Cetus' ECM Shockwave I? Although make it 2 to be on the safe side...
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Slythought More simple solution and you can use it today... GET ESCORTS AND SCOUTS!!! Empire is not a safe haven, just "Safer" than 0.0.. Stop whining! How are you supposed to escort a freighter in empire? How do you expect to stop 30 suicide ships? At least in 0.0 you can pre-emptively attack them, or use carriers for repping! Smart bombs to kill their drones (They always use domis) Remote reps to aid the carrier Spread cargo between freighters or do multiple runs to make you a less appealing target. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Calel Caldari S.H.I.E.L.D Co.	Posted - 2007.05.15 16:06:00 - [56] Originally by: Slythought More simple solution and you can use it today... GET ESCORTS AND SCOUTS!!! Empire is not a safe haven, just "Safer" than 0.0.. Stop whining! Hey Sly Do you fancy escorting me to Zinkon? It's 31 jumps there and 31 jumps back. I estimate it will take us roughly just under 3 hours if we go without a toilet break. Also, if you have 20+ mates in battleships that could help out against the 20+ Battleship gank, bring them along. Hell me might even get out of this alive! Now, does your solution still seem viable? S.H.I.E.L.D Co. Space Haulage, Interstellar Exploration & Logistical Distribution
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Dark Shikari Better fix: Remove insurance if your ship is killed by CONCORD. This makes suicide squads cost for more and makes them only worthwhile for very very valuable freighter loads. Agreed. IF you do the following to 1) No insurance for ships destroyed in 0.0 - after all - which insurance company would pay out to someone who deliberatly drove their car into a war zone 2) No insurance pay outs to people who die negligently in missions - After all who would pay out to some guy who flys a badly fitted ship up against a big load of rats 3) No insurace for self destructs 4) NO insurance for noobs 5) Higher insurance rates if you live in low sec ETC ETC ETC SKUNK 4) 5)
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Dark Shikari Better fix: Remove insurance if your ship is killed by CONCORD. This makes suicide squads cost for more and makes them only worthwhile for very very valuable freighter loads. Agreed. IF you do the following to 1) No insurance for ships destroyed in 0.0 - after all - which insurance company would pay out to someone who deliberatly drove their car into a war zone 2) No insurance pay outs to people who die negligently in missions - After all who would pay out to some guy who flys a badly fitted ship up against a big load of rats 3) No insurace for self destructs 4) NO insurance for noobs 5) Higher insurance rates if you live in low sec ETC ETC ETC SKUNK 4) 5) The only reason insurance should be in the game is for noobs, so your statement is flawed.

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