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Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity
938
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Posted - 2017.05.26 19:39:44 -
[31] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:I admit I've been wondering lately if there's any point anymore in EM being on CVA KOS list. I mean, we are not in Provi, we are NRDS, CVA does not really give a damn about loyalists in general (on either side). It's just history.
Not that I entertain the notion it's history people will easily get over. But still.
Missus Rhiannon, I will be needing your alliance director name. NRDS business.
Fear the God and honor the Empress!
-House Valius battle shout.
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Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity
938
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Posted - 2017.05.26 19:43:42 -
[32] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:
You could hear it from me, you could hear it from CVA, you could hear it even from APOC, YF, -7- or the myriad of other organisations, each with their own formal representatives working together, and if you still won't believe it, well... That's a fair one, guv.
At the least I tried.
You could check the Conclave of Providence papers again. It dictates clearly that religious matters are worked with Imperial Pharmacy, which basicly means me. I still wait Newly formed (if it is formed) Empyrean Council of Providence to contact me so we can get to work.
Fear the God and honor the Empress!
-House Valius battle shout.
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Utari Onzo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1733
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Posted - 2017.05.26 19:51:03 -
[33] - Quote
Vaari wrote:Utari Onzo wrote:To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes.
The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications.
The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else. Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum.
Since the Magistrate empowered the Theology Institute to exist, and also empowered the Council to try individuals for heresy. As flagging a start as it has had, my Lord, these are basic immutable facts that the Magistrate is indeed making something of it.
Once again, I am not at liberty to discuss the issues surrounding your KoS status or your leadership application for the Institute, my Lord. I wish you Gods blessings in your endevours to resolving the issue.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity
938
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Posted - 2017.05.26 19:55:54 -
[34] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:Vaari wrote:Utari Onzo wrote:To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes.
The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications.
The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else. Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum. Since the Magistrate empowered the Theology Institute to exist, and also empowered the Council to try individuals for heresy. As flagging a start as it has had, my Lord, these are basic immutable facts that the Magistrate is indeed making something of it. Once again, I am not at liberty to discuss the issues surrounding your KoS status or your leadership application for the Institute, my Lord. I wish you Gods blessings in your endevours to resolving the issue.
Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue.
What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty.
Fear the God and honor the Empress!
-House Valius battle shout.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders Electus Matari
1014
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 20:40:15 -
[35] - Quote
Vaari wrote:Missus Rhiannon, I will be needing your alliance director name. NRDS business. Debes Sparre. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3969
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Posted - 2017.05.26 20:43:52 -
[36] - Quote
Vaari wrote: Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue.
What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty.
See, now that reads like a whole heap of 'CVA can't be loyal to Amarr because they don't like meeeeeee!!' And that's just a load of crap. I don't believe for a moment that they are loyal in more than just a nominal 'uh-huh, sure, whatever' way, but it's pretty clear your case against CVA being loyal is entirely based on the legal principle of 'ow! my butt!' |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1958
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Posted - 2017.05.26 20:47:31 -
[37] - Quote
Ah, the old In Principae Dolium Nocere legal strategy. It's a bold move, let's see if it pays off. |
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
698
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 20:55:58 -
[38] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote:CVA fight in the milita, and defend Providence setting people like me red and shooting us. That might not seem like much to some, but I haven't seen Vaari on the battlefield, unless that battlefield is IGS, but I see CVA in space all the time.. Their actions seem consistent with opposing people like myself, that is people who wish the Empire and it's loyalists harm.
Yes, many CVA actively fight on the front lines for Amarr in the war against the Matari.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3970
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Posted - 2017.05.26 21:00:20 -
[39] - Quote
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:Yes, many CVA actively fight on the front lines for the money.
FTFY.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1958
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Posted - 2017.05.26 21:01:26 -
[40] - Quote
Sheeeit, we're at war? Why didn't someone tell me? |
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders Electus Matari
1014
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:02:19 -
[41] - Quote
While I am skeptical about CVA's loyalties, I have to point out that being paid for work does not necessarily mean you would take any work for pay. It is possible to be mercenary and loyal. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3970
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Posted - 2017.05.26 21:02:36 -
[42] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Sheeeit, we're at war? Why didn't someone tell me?
Cuz it's just the same old gladiatorial arenas? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1958
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:04:10 -
[43] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:While I am skeptical about CVA's loyalties, I have to point out that being paid for work does not necessarily mean you would take any work for pay. It is possible to be mercenary and loyal.
Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1958
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Posted - 2017.05.26 21:05:52 -
[44] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Sheeeit, we're at war? Why didn't someone tell me? Cuz it's just the same old gladiatorial arenas?
FFS stop with the teasing, people. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3971
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:07:03 -
[45] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck.
I know, I looked, dammit! |
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
699
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:12:12 -
[46] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore.
This example is good, but you are using it exactly backwards. CVA's leadership supports Amarr and they are part of the CEWPA war. Yes Providence has members who are not loyal to Amarr, but that doesn't make the whole entity disloyal any more than your presence makes your organization loyal to the Tribes.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders Electus Matari
1014
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:12:52 -
[47] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck. Wasn't actually talking about you.
MC has plenty going for them, but they are not of the inclination to put off work just because the customer is a slaver. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1959
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:15:01 -
[48] - Quote
Gav, m'boy, if participation in the pendulum indicates support of Amarr, you have a whole lot of nasty customers falling under the 'loyalist' umbrella. Are you entirely sure that's where you'd want to go with that?
That said, Elsebeth stop ruining my jokes with your southern sensibilities. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders Electus Matari
1015
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:17:40 -
[49] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:That said, Elsebeth stop ruining my jokes with your southern sensibilities. Didn't we already establish that I can't have a sense of humor because it would be totally untrad and ohnesh? |
Erika Wallker
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
15
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Posted - 2017.05.26 21:18:10 -
[50] - Quote
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore. This example is good, but you are using it exactly backwards. CVA's leadership supports Amarr and they are part of the CEWPA war. Yes Providence has members who are not loyal to Amarr, but that doesn't make the whole entity disloyal any more than your presence makes your organization loyal to the Tribes.
I agree with this 100%. There are two issues being discussed in this thread.
The first is the loyalty of Provibloc (CVA is only a part of Provibloc). If you measure loyalty by faith, than the accusations are probably partly correct. Faith in Providence is sorely lacking right now due to lack of guidance. However, if loyalty is the willingness to assist its allies and fight alongside the empire in times of need then Providence is very much loyal to the empire. Many of our pilot support the fight against the Minmatar and CVA (this time CVA only) joined the war effort for the reason of supporting its allies (not for the money).
The second part of the thread are the accusations of one man against CVA/Provibloc. I do believe Arrendis said it best:
Arrendis wrote:Vaari wrote: Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue.
What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty.
See, now that reads like a whole heap of 'CVA can't be loyal to Amarr because they don't like meeeeeee!!' And that's just a load of crap. I don't believe for a moment that they are loyal in more than just a nominal 'uh-huh, sure, whatever' way, but it's pretty clear your case against CVA being loyal is entirely based on the legal principle of 'ow! my butt!'
I believe these is nothing more to say on the matter.
Pentag Blade!
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Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity
939
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Posted - 2017.05.26 21:26:31 -
[51] - Quote
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore. This example is good, but you are using it exactly backwards. CVA's leadership supports Amarr and they are part of the CEWPA war. Yes Providence has members who are not loyal to Amarr, but that doesn't make the whole entity disloyal any more than your presence makes your organization loyal to the Tribes.
Providence is indeed mixture of loyalists and money makers. With great respect to my good and close friend Daedalus, currently CVA does not belongs to the loyalists.
Fear the God and honor the Empress!
-House Valius battle shout.
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2401
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Posted - 2017.05.26 21:40:09 -
[52] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck. I know, I looked, dammit! Was wondering who left that there. Well, I dropped it off at the lost items counter if you're looking for it...
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
699
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 21:54:25 -
[53] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Gav, m'boy, if participation in the pendulum indicates support of Amarr, you have a whole lot of nasty customers falling under the 'loyalist' umbrella. Are you entirely sure that's where you'd want to go with that?
When combined with CVA leadership's open support of Amarr, it makes a compelling case. They also joined the militia despite it having some notable negative consequences for some of their members.
That makes them somewhat different from the Blooders, pirates, and venal mercenaries that also fly under the 24IC but would never qualify as loyal.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1959
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 22:05:59 -
[54] - Quote
Pretty sure some of the 'Blooders, pirates and venal mercenaries' also proclaim open support of Amarr. Lip service and pendulum activity does not a loyalist entity make, as far as I'm concerned.
... it should be a concern that I apparently have higher standards for Imperial loyalists than you do. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3972
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 22:14:36 -
[55] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:... it should be a concern that I apparently have higher standards for Imperial loyalists than you do.
To be fair, you have generally high standards. It's not a bad thing, mind, but it does set you up to be disappointed in people. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1959
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 22:22:25 -
[56] - Quote
Now now, if I start holding people to lesser standards than I hold myself, I'd have to start acknowledging just how vastly superior I am to other people. We can't have that kind of narcissism and megalomania, now can we? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3972
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 22:30:40 -
[57] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Now now, if I start holding people to lesser standards than I hold myself, I'd have to start acknowledging just how vastly superior I am to other people. We can't have that kind of narcissism and megalomania, now can we?
I dunno, it's kinda hot. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
1960
|
Posted - 2017.05.26 22:34:17 -
[58] - Quote
That is basically proof that you need to get that head of yours checked, if random cataclysmic sleep poetry wasn't enough. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3972
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Posted - 2017.05.26 22:36:03 -
[59] - Quote
I should dig that stuff outta my comms logs and publish it. |
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
700
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Posted - 2017.05.26 23:40:55 -
[60] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Now now, if I start holding people to lesser standards than I hold myself, I'd have to start acknowledging just how vastly superior I am to other people. We can't have that kind of narcissism and megalomania, now can we?
Things are not binary. Some loyalists are more loyal than others.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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