EVE Search - Challenging maleficars

All Channels

Intergalactic Summit

Challenging maleficars

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 929	Posted - 2017.05.24 22:42:21 - [1] - Quote Certain alliance who claims undying loyalty to Amarr Empire has set me kos on lifetime for my home. In sight of God Omnipotent I, Lord Vaari say this action was not only misguided, it was against all reason. They claim loyalty, but in same time from their own fleet we saw insults directed to Her Imperial Majesty during her coronation, and nothing was done. Teachings and examples of Lord Aralis are no longer followed, but only remembered. Yet their leaders claim to be loyalists even when it is not seen nor in action nor in words. It is in human nature to speak against wrongs. One of the greatest sins in mortal word is claiming to support Amarr Empire when you do not. That certain alliance tells I have no right to speak against them. Those who loves Amarr Empire knows that I had no right to close my lips any longer. As an amarrian nobleman i merely performed my duty and took a stand for my Empire. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3898	Posted - 2017.05.24 23:42:06 - [2] - Quote Yes, yes, you flapped your gums like a good little lapdog. Consider it noted. You can stop now.
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 929	Posted - 2017.05.24 23:43:12 - [3] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Yes, yes, you flapped your gums like a good little lapdog. Consider it noted. You can stop now. Goonswarm prostitute can shut her mouth. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 209	Posted - 2017.05.24 23:57:52 - [4] - Quote Vaari wrote: Certain alliance who claims undying loyalty to Amarr Empire has set me kos (kill on sight) on lifetime from my home. In sight of God Omnipotent I, Lord Vaari say this action was not only misguided, it was against all reason. They claim loyalty, but in same time from their own fleet we saw insults directed to Her Imperial Majesty during her coronation, and nothing was done. Teachings and examples of Lord Aralis are no longer followed, but only remembered. Yet their leaders claim to be loyalists even when it is not seen nor in action nor in words. It is in human nature to speak against wrongs. One of the greatest sins in mortal word is claiming to support Amarr Empire when you do not. That certain alliance tells I have no right to speak against them. Those who loves Amarr Empire knows that I had no right to close my lips any longer. As an amarrian nobleman i merely performed my duty and took a stand for my Empire. I hear that the Purity of the Throne is looking for converts. Perhaps if you forswear Empress Catiz they might consider you. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 929	Posted - 2017.05.25 00:08:08 - [5] - Quote I would rather hang my own late mother than join Blood Raiders. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3902	Posted - 2017.05.25 00:11:07 - [6] - Quote Yup. Truly a paragon of Amarr wisdom: he can't tell the difference between Blooders and Puritans.
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 929	Posted - 2017.05.25 00:19:36 - [7] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Yup. Truly a paragon of Amarr wisdom: he can't tell the difference between Blooders and Puritans. Yes, I noticed difference some time after posting. Mainly it was because of misunderstanding. This is not my native language. Both are dangerous heretics though. I still say, Prostitute of Goonswarm may remain silent. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1930	Posted - 2017.05.25 00:24:26 - [8] - Quote Now now, don't be disingenuous. She doesn't charge.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3902	Posted - 2017.05.25 00:33:47 - [9] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Now now, don't be disingenuous. She doesn't charge. Now who's getting petty?
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1930	Posted - 2017.05.25 00:34:32 - [10] - Quote Just defending your honor. Wouldn't want you looking mercenary.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3902	Posted - 2017.05.25 00:41:26 - [11] - Quote Yeah, I probably shouldn't have laughed as hard as I did there. Alas, I still don't put out. I think my last relationship's just too hard for people to follow.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 984	Posted - 2017.05.25 05:52:27 - [12] - Quote So tell me more about how you are not welcome in CVA space or operations. Because I find this very amusing.
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 972	Posted - 2017.05.25 07:23:40 - [13] - Quote I think that CVA has lost their way. But I think you also ostracized yourself with your actions Lord Vaari. And no matter what happened, this appealing is not dignified. If they are wrong or if you are the highest path is still a silence now that it has all happened. If you continue to decry them it makes you seem the weaker. My advice is to move on and learn from the mistakes that lost you your place of privilege. It may happen in other places where loyalty to the Empire and god alone are no longer enough. New Eden is changing and this is a trying time. Again, there is greater strength in silence. As strength goes.
Yarosara Ruil Haighare Pirates 986	Posted - 2017.05.25 10:19:14 - [14] - Quote Talk crap, get slapped!
Mizhir TURN LEFT HYDRA RELOADED 75351	Posted - 2017.05.25 10:24:45 - [15] - Quote I second Ms Ayallah's notion. It appears that CVA has gotten too drunk on power and now want to be in charge themselves. Something similar to what the Blooders did. If you want something to happen I would recommend you to do something about it rather than complaining. Death rides a fast C4mel
Luna Hanaya Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 265	Posted - 2017.05.25 17:54:05 - [16] - Quote CVA are still fighting for the Empire, aren't they? Do you fight for the Empire, Lord Vaari... or you will prefer siding with Minmatar to fight against CVA, who fight for the Empire? (( If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community: Intergalactic Summit - IC router Out of Character - channel for discussion of roleplay, live events and lore ))
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2395	Posted - 2017.05.25 22:10:52 - [17] - Quote Isn't this like the 10th thread he's made griping about being kicked out of/set to KoS by CVA? A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3935	Posted - 2017.05.25 22:27:24 - [18] - Quote Luna Hanaya wrote: CVA are still fighting for the Empire, aren't they? No. They're fighting for CVA.
Ascentior PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 337	Posted - 2017.05.26 00:12:39 - [19] - Quote Luna Hanaya wrote: CVA are still fighting for the Empire, aren't they? Do you fight for the Empire, Lord Vaari... or you will prefer siding with Minmatar to fight against CVA, who fight for the Empire? I believe the point Lord Vaari is making is that he believes CVA claim to fight for The Empire, but do not do so by action. Admiral of PIE Inc., Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment) Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy Chosen by God to serve the Empire.
ValentinaDLM Remember The Fallen. Atlas. Alliance 958	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:05:16 - [20] - Quote CVA fight in the milita, and defend Providence setting people like me red and shooting us. That might not seem like much to some, but I haven't seen Vaari on the battlefield, unless that battlefield is IGS, but I see CVA in space all the time.. Their actions seem consistent with opposing people like myself, that is people who wish the Empire and it's loyalists harm.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3965	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:16:37 - [21] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: CVA fight in the milita, and defend Providence setting people like me red and shooting us. Defending space they currently control does not mean they're defending it for the Empire. It means they're defending it for themselves.
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1733	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:19:17 - [22] - Quote The real issue alluded to in this entire thread (and others) goes back a number of years, and primarily revolves around faith and Amarr culture and laws. Providence has lacked solid, central and consistent spiritual guidance for some time, and a number of its corporations have allowed members to get away with things that SFRIM, PIE and many other loyalist organisations would not have hesitated to take action over. It's what happens when your organisation grows beyond the task of one man to manage, so I cannot say I don't expect there to be issues, but it is true that these incidents were not always followed up on as swiftly as they should have been. Operation Deliverance (the part about actually applying the Faith and Laws of the Empire, not just holding the space) has, for the most part, had to be brought kicking and screaming to the fore-front once more. The Conclave of Providence was an effort to start addressing this, and its work will be continued and expanded upon by the Empyrean Council. It has not been without growing pains, but I am confident it will see success with Principle Jeds at the helm. Providence needs a lot of education and work for its myriad of pilots, from a diverse set of backgrounds, and organisations to get back to that core root. So, in a sense, it can be argued it lost part of its way. It (the conceptual/generalisation 'it') stumbled along the path a little and needs a helping hand to get it back on track again. As a devoted Amarrian and a 'Provident' myself, I'm determined to assist there where I can. To any Providence/CVA members reading, take this as honest and open advice given out of love for one's brothers and sisters of the faith, not a scolding. It's also meant as a means of ending the idle gossip from the ill informed, while not trying to cover up the obvious history of flaws and failings known to all here. As for the explicit issue of Lord Vaari's personal status with CVA, that is an issue already addressed upon by CVA's diplomats on this very forum that neither I nor SFRIM will make public comment on. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1733	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:24:13 - [23] - Quote To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes. The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications. The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1013	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:37:48 - [24] - Quote Don't take me wrong, but these assurances of CVA's loyalty to the faith would be more believable if they came from the CVA.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1957	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:40:51 - [25] - Quote Been watching CVA for too long to take even their own claims as such. There's barely lipservice going on these days from Providence, and even that is so half-hearted that blind people could see through it. They're about as Amarr loyal as I am.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1013	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:44:56 - [26] - Quote I admit I've been wondering lately if there's any point anymore in EM being on CVA KOS list. I mean, we are not in Provi, we are NRDS, CVA does not really give a damn about loyalists in general (on either side). It's just history. Not that I entertain the notion it's history people will easily get over. But still.
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1733	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:46:58 - [27] - Quote Then my point of why I don't bother keeping an open update here of the goings on on the Operation Deliverance front is proven. There's nothing to gain from expending the energy and effort of making a log here of the Council's work, the various initiatives started or the like (of which there are many, and by more then just CVA's hands) because the feedback from it would be about as useful to us as rubbing some crystals together and seeing what mysteries that will reveal. You could hear it from me, you could hear it from CVA, you could hear it even from APOC, YF, -7- or the myriad of other organisations, each with their own formal representatives working together, and if you still won't believe it, well... That's a fair one, guv. At the least I tried. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1013	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:52:14 - [28] - Quote Just because Miz says she will not believe it in any case, and I remain skeptical of anyone but CVA making announcements of loyalty for the CVA, you decide there's no point in making updates about a potentially rather important development (or lack there-of) of an alliance with at least former ties to the nation states? Suit yourself, but to me that sounds a rather extreme reaction. I'd be interested to hear more about this Operation Deliverance, for sure. I am sure you can tell your point of view on it without making strong claims on CVA's behalf? It sounds like it would deserve its own thread.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1957	Posted - 2017.05.26 18:52:21 - [29] - Quote Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore.
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 938	Posted - 2017.05.26 19:36:53 - [30] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes. The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications. The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else. Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 938	Posted - 2017.05.26 19:39:44 - [31] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: I admit I've been wondering lately if there's any point anymore in EM being on CVA KOS list. I mean, we are not in Provi, we are NRDS, CVA does not really give a damn about loyalists in general (on either side). It's just history. Not that I entertain the notion it's history people will easily get over. But still. Missus Rhiannon, I will be needing your alliance director name. NRDS business. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 938	Posted - 2017.05.26 19:43:42 - [32] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: You could hear it from me, you could hear it from CVA, you could hear it even from APOC, YF, -7- or the myriad of other organisations, each with their own formal representatives working together, and if you still won't believe it, well... That's a fair one, guv. At the least I tried. You could check the Conclave of Providence papers again. It dictates clearly that religious matters are worked with Imperial Pharmacy, which basicly means me. I still wait Newly formed (if it is formed) Empyrean Council of Providence to contact me so we can get to work. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Utari Onzo Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1733	Posted - 2017.05.26 19:51:03 - [33] - Quote Vaari wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes. The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications. The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else. Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum. Since the Magistrate empowered the Theology Institute to exist, and also empowered the Council to try individuals for heresy. As flagging a start as it has had, my Lord, these are basic immutable facts that the Magistrate is indeed making something of it. Once again, I am not at liberty to discuss the issues surrounding your KoS status or your leadership application for the Institute, my Lord. I wish you Gods blessings in your endevours to resolving the issue. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 938	Posted - 2017.05.26 19:55:54 - [34] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: Vaari wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: To make it absolutely clear as well, is Providence, and as part of that coalition CVA, Amarr Loyal? Yes. The fact that its leadership has supported the efforts to re-establish religious education, and to devolve matters on that to an eager pilot base, demonstrates that loyalty is still true even if a tiny number of malcontents spout nonsense in local communications. The issue is more of bringing it into line with the very culture and finer details of the faith they are loyal to, an issue more to do with isolation in null security and spiritual neglect by clergy then anything else. Since when CVA's leaders have supported religious education? Must be after I was made of KOS for demanding it few weeks ago and was barred access to the coalition forums. It is rather good ban, for shortly after that friend from Loyalist ranks told me that CVA has used my API-account to SPY ON ME. If i ever be non kos in Providence, surely as there is Heaven and Hell i wont use CVA's forum. Since the Magistrate empowered the Theology Institute to exist, and also empowered the Council to try individuals for heresy. As flagging a start as it has had, my Lord, these are basic immutable facts that the Magistrate is indeed making something of it. Once again, I am not at liberty to discuss the issues surrounding your KoS status or your leadership application for the Institute, my Lord. I wish you Gods blessings in your endevours to resolving the issue. Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue. What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1014	Posted - 2017.05.26 20:40:15 - [35] - Quote Vaari wrote: Missus Rhiannon, I will be needing your alliance director name. NRDS business. Debes Sparre.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3969	Posted - 2017.05.26 20:43:52 - [36] - Quote Vaari wrote: Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue. What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty. See, now that reads like a whole heap of 'CVA can't be loyal to Amarr because they don't like meeeeeee!!' And that's just a load of crap. I don't believe for a moment that they are loyal in more than just a nominal 'uh-huh, sure, whatever' way, but it's pretty clear your case against CVA being loyal is entirely based on the legal principle of 'ow! my butt!'
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1958	Posted - 2017.05.26 20:47:31 - [37] - Quote Ah, the old In Principae Dolium Nocere legal strategy. It's a bold move, let's see if it pays off.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 698	Posted - 2017.05.26 20:55:58 - [38] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: CVA fight in the milita, and defend Providence setting people like me red and shooting us. That might not seem like much to some, but I haven't seen Vaari on the battlefield, unless that battlefield is IGS, but I see CVA in space all the time.. Their actions seem consistent with opposing people like myself, that is people who wish the Empire and it's loyalists harm. Yes, many CVA actively fight on the front lines for Amarr in the war against the Matari. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3970	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:00:20 - [39] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Yes, many CVA actively fight on the front lines for the money. FTFY.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1958	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:01:26 - [40] - Quote Sheeeit, we're at war? Why didn't someone tell me?
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1014	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:02:19 - [41] - Quote While I am skeptical about CVA's loyalties, I have to point out that being paid for work does not necessarily mean you would take any work for pay. It is possible to be mercenary and loyal.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3970	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:02:36 - [42] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Sheeeit, we're at war? Why didn't someone tell me? Cuz it's just the same old gladiatorial arenas?
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1958	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:04:10 - [43] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: While I am skeptical about CVA's loyalties, I have to point out that being paid for work does not necessarily mean you would take any work for pay. It is possible to be mercenary and loyal. Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1958	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:05:52 - [44] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Sheeeit, we're at war? Why didn't someone tell me? Cuz it's just the same old gladiatorial arenas? FFS stop with the teasing, people.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3971	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:07:03 - [45] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck. I know, I looked, dammit!
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 699	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:12:12 - [46] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore. This example is good, but you are using it exactly backwards. CVA's leadership supports Amarr and they are part of the CEWPA war. Yes Providence has members who are not loyal to Amarr, but that doesn't make the whole entity disloyal any more than your presence makes your organization loyal to the Tribes. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1014	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:12:52 - [47] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck. Wasn't actually talking about you. MC has plenty going for them, but they are not of the inclination to put off work just because the customer is a slaver.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1959	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:15:01 - [48] - Quote Gav, m'boy, if participation in the pendulum indicates support of Amarr, you have a whole lot of nasty customers falling under the 'loyalist' umbrella. Are you entirely sure that's where you'd want to go with that? That said, Elsebeth stop ruining my jokes with your southern sensibilities.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1015	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:17:40 - [49] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: That said, Elsebeth stop ruining my jokes with your southern sensibilities. Didn't we already establish that I can't have a sense of humor because it would be totally untrad and ohnesh?
Erika Wallker Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 15	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:18:10 - [50] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore. This example is good, but you are using it exactly backwards. CVA's leadership supports Amarr and they are part of the CEWPA war. Yes Providence has members who are not loyal to Amarr, but that doesn't make the whole entity disloyal any more than your presence makes your organization loyal to the Tribes. I agree with this 100%. There are two issues being discussed in this thread. The first is the loyalty of Provibloc (CVA is only a part of Provibloc). If you measure loyalty by faith, than the accusations are probably partly correct. Faith in Providence is sorely lacking right now due to lack of guidance. However, if loyalty is the willingness to assist its allies and fight alongside the empire in times of need then Providence is very much loyal to the empire. Many of our pilot support the fight against the Minmatar and CVA (this time CVA only) joined the war effort for the reason of supporting its allies (not for the money). The second part of the thread are the accusations of one man against CVA/Provibloc. I do believe Arrendis said it best: Arrendis wrote: Vaari wrote: Your KOS admin, the Xhjfx the Abomination pretty much played his strongest card in existence against me by making me permanent kos to Providence, I see little ways to resolve the issue. What he failed to see was overwhelming support of my cause as a loyalist who struggles against disloyalty. See, now that reads like a whole heap of 'CVA can't be loyal to Amarr because they don't like meeeeeee!!' And that's just a load of crap. I don't believe for a moment that they are loyal in more than just a nominal 'uh-huh, sure, whatever' way, but it's pretty clear your case against CVA being loyal is entirely based on the legal principle of 'ow! my butt!' I believe these is nothing more to say on the matter. Pentag Blade!
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 939	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:26:31 - [51] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Utari, would you say Mercenary Coalition is loyal to the Tribes? I can assure you it's not, even though I can point to myself and some others as such. CVA and Providence is much the same and you know it. That you have sufficient numbers that the exact same loyalist percentage translates into big enough numbers for an 'Operation Deliverance' does not make CVA nor Providence Amarr loyal anymore. This example is good, but you are using it exactly backwards. CVA's leadership supports Amarr and they are part of the CEWPA war. Yes Providence has members who are not loyal to Amarr, but that doesn't make the whole entity disloyal any more than your presence makes your organization loyal to the Tribes. Providence is indeed mixture of loyalists and money makers. With great respect to my good and close friend Daedalus, currently CVA does not belongs to the loyalists. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2401	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:40:09 - [52] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Disclaimer: The above message was totally not a paid promotion and the credstick is most certainly not taped under the leftmost table upon entering the Deck. I know, I looked, dammit! Was wondering who left that there. Well, I dropped it off at the lost items counter if you're looking for it... A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 699	Posted - 2017.05.26 21:54:25 - [53] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Gav, m'boy, if participation in the pendulum indicates support of Amarr, you have a whole lot of nasty customers falling under the 'loyalist' umbrella. Are you entirely sure that's where you'd want to go with that? When combined with CVA leadership's open support of Amarr, it makes a compelling case. They also joined the militia despite it having some notable negative consequences for some of their members. That makes them somewhat different from the Blooders, pirates, and venal mercenaries that also fly under the 24IC but would never qualify as loyal. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1959	Posted - 2017.05.26 22:05:59 - [54] - Quote Pretty sure some of the 'Blooders, pirates and venal mercenaries' also proclaim open support of Amarr. Lip service and pendulum activity does not a loyalist entity make, as far as I'm concerned. ... it should be a concern that I apparently have higher standards for Imperial loyalists than you do.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3972	Posted - 2017.05.26 22:14:36 - [55] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: ... it should be a concern that I apparently have higher standards for Imperial loyalists than you do. To be fair, you have generally high standards. It's not a bad thing, mind, but it does set you up to be disappointed in people.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1959	Posted - 2017.05.26 22:22:25 - [56] - Quote Now now, if I start holding people to lesser standards than I hold myself, I'd have to start acknowledging just how vastly superior I am to other people. We can't have that kind of narcissism and megalomania, now can we?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3972	Posted - 2017.05.26 22:30:40 - [57] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Now now, if I start holding people to lesser standards than I hold myself, I'd have to start acknowledging just how vastly superior I am to other people. We can't have that kind of narcissism and megalomania, now can we? I dunno, it's kinda hot.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1960	Posted - 2017.05.26 22:34:17 - [58] - Quote That is basically proof that you need to get that head of yours checked, if random cataclysmic sleep poetry wasn't enough.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3972	Posted - 2017.05.26 22:36:03 - [59] - Quote I should dig that stuff outta my comms logs and publish it.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 700	Posted - 2017.05.26 23:40:55 - [60] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Now now, if I start holding people to lesser standards than I hold myself, I'd have to start acknowledging just how vastly superior I am to other people. We can't have that kind of narcissism and megalomania, now can we? Things are not binary. Some loyalists are more loyal than others. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3972	Posted - 2017.05.26 23:43:13 - [61] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Things are not binary. Some loyalists are more loyal than others. Now, that's just patently ridiculous. Just because someone's price is high doesn't mean they're not just as mercenary and faithless as the lower-priced traitors. It just means they're more conceited.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 700	Posted - 2017.05.26 23:50:45 - [62] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Things are not binary. Some loyalists are more loyal than others. Now, that's just patently ridiculous. Just because someone's price is high doesn't mean they're not just as mercenary and faithless as the lower-priced traitors. It just means they're more conceited. So you are saying that CVA has been bought? By whom, exactly? Now, I will say that Providence has many problems of faith caused by their distance from Amarr and their constant contact with the nullsec barbarians, but their core ideals as an organization remain with Amarr and not with some other group. They are not perfect loyalists, by any means, and they do certainly harbor some heretics, but I have no problem calling them a pro-Amarr organization. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3987	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:01:00 - [63] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: So you are saying that CVA has been bought? By whom, exactly? Now you're putting words in my mouth. I haven't said they've been bought. I'm saying that if they can be bought, then it doesn't matter how much it takes. Can they be bought? Who knows. But setting up a double-standard based on the price involved in getting someone to abandon everything they say they hold dear... that's just silly. Either they'll do it, or they won't.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 705	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:04:06 - [64] - Quote Where did I set a standard based on price? Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 706	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:08:17 - [65] - Quote Ah, I think I see, it's how you are reading the word loyal. I may have been using it more loosely than you are. I would say that the line between loyalist and not is this very question of "can they be enticed to betray the Empire by any means." If the answer is yes, then they are not loyalists. If the answer is no, they are loyalists, even if they might be imperfect ones. I have no evidence that CVA would ever be enticed to betray the Empire as an organization. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3991	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:09:20 - [66] - Quote 'Some are more loyal than others'. Asserting one person can be more loyal than another person but both are loyal, can only mean 'the less loyal person will turn their coat more easily'. That's price, no matter what form the payoff takes. If there's any price at all that would work, that's not a loyalist, that's just a merc whose price hasn't been met yet. Loyalty is 'will you or won't you betray the thing you claim to be loyal to?' It's very much a binary proposition. Now, if you want to say that some loyalists adhere more rigorously to the nuances and minutiae of Amarr culture and beliefs, sure, that's legit. But they're not more loyal or less loyal. Either they're loyal... or they ain't. Edit to add, as we crossposted... Gaven Lok'ri wrote: I may have been using it more loosely than you are. I would say that the line between loyalist and not is this very question of "can they be enticed to betray the Empire by any means." If the answer is yes, then they are not loyalists. If the answer is no, they are loyalists, even if they might be imperfect ones. Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Things are not binary. Some loyalists are more loyal than others. So, yeah. Both statements can't be true. 'If yes, then they are not loyalists' pretty much means 'Things are binary' in this regard.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 708	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:16:47 - [67] - Quote I have no idea how you survive in the messy universe of the nullsec Barbarians with an approach to language that allows no room for nuance. The word has a somewhat wider range of meaning than you allow. Take the phrase "He loyally attended every religious celebration," for example. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3992	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:24:26 - [68] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: I have no idea how you survive in the messy universe of the nullsec Barbarians with an approach to language that allows no room for nuance. Pretty easily. I work with people who've earned my loyalty. Quote: The word has a somewhat wider range of meaning than you allow. Take the phrase "He loyally attended every religious celebration," for example. It's amazing, isn't it? The way adverbs aren't the noun they're based on?
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 708	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:35:02 - [69] - Quote Ah, that wasn't the best choice of rejoinder. If you insist on only using the same part of speech, lets go to a phrase from one of those strange Gallente religions where it would be perfectly reasonable to call someone a "loyal churchgoer" or, if you want something secular, a "loyal sports fan." The phrase isn't implying that the person is less likely to outright betray their religion or team than a normal churchgoer or sports fan, but that they go above and beyond to show their loyalty to that religion or team. It's also notable that you cannot reduce Amarr to a single proposition that they are loyal to. We aren't that simple, so they can be loyal to some aspects of Amarr without being loyal to all of them. A perfect loyalist is loyal to all of those ideals, while a less than perfect loyalist might be important to the most important ideals, but disloyal to some of the less important ideals, and I would still call them a loyalist. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3996	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:59:31 - [70] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: a "loyal churchgoer" or, if you want something secular, a "loyal sports fan." The phrase isn't implying that the person is less likely to outright betray their religion or team than a normal churchgoer or sports fan, but that they go above and beyond to show their loyalty to that religion or team. Actually, the phrase is pretty strongly indicating that no, you're not likely to abandon your devotion to that church or that team. If you were, you wouldn't be loyal, now would you? Quote: It's also notable that you cannot reduce Amarr to a single proposition that they are loyal to. We aren't that simple, so they can be loyal to some aspects of Amarr without being loyal to all of them. A perfect loyalist is loyal to all of those ideals, while a less than perfect loyalist might be important to the most important ideals, but disloyal to some of the less important ideals, and I would still call them a loyalist. "Reduce"? I think Amarr is a singular proposition. I mean, the culture is built around the faith. The government itself is built around the faith. If someone's personally devoted to Her Catieness, but they're a Blooder, then they're still a Heretic, right? And since Catydid and the Empire are the instruments and expressions of God's Will, as interpreted by the Theology Council, then to be a Heretic is to be in open defiance of the Empress' and the Empire's position. Which means it's not loyal. It's expressly in opposition and contradiction of what loyalty would be. And that percolates through every aspect of the Empire. Either you're doing things the Imperial way, or you're not. I mean, taken with this statement, this gets downright weird: Quote: I have no idea how you survive in the messy universe of the nullsec See, if I disagree with Mittens, that's fine. I can disagree with Mittens. When I do, I say so, directly to him, too. Mittens doesn't claim to be infallible. He doesn't claim to be speaking for God. Sure, there's more open bloodshed between factions, but this whole idea of 'messier'... we're a messy species. I'd rather be out here, where I know who and what I'm dealing with, than in the fundamentally deceitful, shallow, and treacherous gilded cesspit that is Amarr.
Graelyn Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1103	Posted - 2017.05.27 01:18:10 - [71] - Quote You must be a blast at Soires. Cardinal Graelyn Imperial Liaison, I-RED Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3997	Posted - 2017.05.27 01:24:13 - [72] - Quote Graelyn wrote: You must be a blast at Soires. The PIE Ball last year wasn't bad. The ~~mead~~eiswine was nice. A little weak, but nice. But generally, no, I don't do parties. Not a lot of free time, really.
Claudia Osyn Non-Hostile Target 2403	Posted - 2017.05.27 02:05:17 - [73] - Quote Wait, I always thought loyalty worked on a sliding scale..... in favor of people with deep pockets. A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Gaven Lok'ri PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 710	Posted - 2017.05.27 03:23:12 - [74] - Quote Your literalism and willingness to reduce entire religions or cultures to singular propositions goes a long way towards explaining your belief in absurdly hardline atheism. Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4003	Posted - 2017.05.27 03:31:55 - [75] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Your literalism and willingness to reduce entire religions or cultures to singular propositions goes a long way towards explaining your belief in absurdly hardline atheism. Really? And how would you define 'absurdly hardline atheism'? Because my position is: there is no evidence for God. There is nothing we observe that requires the existence of God. Therefore, there is no reason to introduce 'God'. There's also no proof there isn't a god. So there's no reason to belief there is no god. There's no reason to believe one way or another. Belief, keep in mind, is an active position. Disbelief is also an active position. And before you object with 'that's not atheism, that's agnosticism', the prefix a- means 'non'.. A-gnosticism is 'I do not claim knowledge'. a-theism is 'I do not believe in gods'. Thus, agnosticism is atheistic, and much of atheism is agnostic in nature.
Vaari Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity 939	Posted - 2017.05.27 17:58:04 - [76] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: ValentinaDLM wrote: CVA fight in the milita, and defend Providence setting people like me red and shooting us. That might not seem like much to some, but I haven't seen Vaari on the battlefield, unless that battlefield is IGS, but I see CVA in space all the time.. Their actions seem consistent with opposing people like myself, that is people who wish the Empire and it's loyalists harm. Yes, many CVA actively fight on the front lines for Amarr in the war against the Matari. We are not at war with the matari. Matari people contains all matari to original minmatars to ammatars. I say this to prelude that amarrian loyalists are propably soon to see some declarations from me. Our alliance is amarrian loyalist and remain so, but negotiations with minmatar loyalistst start soon. All is made with the spirit of San Matar's blessed visit on Amarr Prime. Fear the God and honor the Empress! -House Valius battle shout.
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 221	Posted - 2017.05.27 18:08:33 - [77] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Wait, I always thought loyalty worked on a sliding scale..... in favor of people with deep pockets. I'll buy that for an ISK. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1035	Posted - 2017.05.28 05:14:18 - [78] - Quote If the definition of loyal is "cannot be enticed to betray by any means", then no one is. Everybody breaks. Everybody. And while strength of mind is a good quality, it is not exactly the same as loyalty. I would say loyalty is defined by your intentions, and by your actions. They have to be in line and in favor of the person or group you are loyal to. Proclamations of undying feelings of dedication are just words. Without action they are nothing.
Jin'taan Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 271	Posted - 2017.05.29 10:36:30 - [79] - Quote I do quite enjoy you all deciding to simply debate on the forums over how loyal we are or are not, on the whims of a man who attempted to instigate a coup within a loyalist organisation against it's rightful leader (as imposed by Aralis) as he was unable to follow basic courtesies on our communication channels and was actively hindering our ability to work against our enemies, and as such was temporarily muted which he took as a grave offence to his honour. But, never let the facts get in the way of an old grudge, I suppose.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 2005	Posted - 2017.05.29 10:52:42 - [80] - Quote Oh, old grumps here isn't so much the instigator of the debate as he is just a reminder of it. This has been something raised into public bickering from time to time for years now. Personally, I don't really have a hound in this race, but have always appreciated real and honest enemies over those that are only fighting for... well, the fight.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4078	Posted - 2017.05.29 11:02:42 - [81] - Quote Jin'taan wrote: I do quite enjoy you all deciding to simply debate on the forums over how loyal we are or are not, on the whims of a man who attempted to instigate a coup within a loyalist organisation against it's rightful leader (as imposed by Aralis) as he was unable to follow basic courtesies on our communication channels and was actively hindering our ability to work against our enemies, and as such was temporarily muted which he took as a grave offence to his honour. But, never let the facts get in the way of an old grudge, I suppose. Pffft. It's less a debate and more a kind of detached discussion while we all agree ol' gasbag here is a self-inflicted gut-shot.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1045	Posted - 2017.05.29 12:49:11 - [82] - Quote What they say. My scepticism about CVA's practical loyalty are not at all based on Vaari's doings or sayings, and frankly I would not consider a disagreement with him proof in either direction. He just happened to be what brought this up this time.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1045	Posted - 2017.05.29 12:54:01 - [83] - Quote I would also like to point out in more clear words that I do not consider it a fault or a dishonor to CVA if the are rather secular in their dealings these days. Such an approach is only sensible for a space-holding NRDS organization, and CVA has always stressed that as much or more as the Amarrian interests. I am, obviously, not privy to what lead to Vaari's issues with CVA, but if it is a case of putting the peace of a region above the concerns of a preachifying zealot about "heresy" and "purity", then that action is completely in line with CVA stated goals.

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.