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Ratch3t
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:00:00 -
[1]
What do you guys reckon is the smallest ship that i could reasonably effectivly solo PvP in including killing 0.0 ratters, low sec Pvpers and a few 0.0 Pvpers?
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Dorah Hawkwing
Engines of Creation
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dorah Hawkwing on 16/05/2007 14:12:21 Rifter, Punisher Both have accomplished solo kills and are pretty mean if fitted right.
Of course, it is skill and fittings dependant.
As to the smallest ship you could PvP in, it depends on your character's skills, on your player skills, your preferences and your wallet
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:11:00 -
[3]
0.0 ratters?
hmmph.... pilgrim perhaps... Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
DarkElf
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:14:00 -
[4]
smallest or cheapest?
smallest well there are many many frigs quite capable of it. crow is probably the best solo frig imo
DE
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:23:00 -
[5]
yeah but you have no chance to kill ratter in 0.0 with crow or frig for that matter... Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Ratch3t
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:35:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ratch3t on 16/05/2007 14:34:04 For starters can you make sure you read the OP, this obviously doesn't apply to all of you.
Also take the amount of money I have to spend on said ship to be unlimeted (well nearly... no opux yaughts or something) and all skills related to flying the ship to being maxed out.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:39:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ryysa on 16/05/2007 14:37:29 In that case, speedfitted curse with at least LG snakes.
You should be able to reliably kill any non-capship npcer you encounter, and should be also more than able to give most pvpers a run for their money in a 1v1 or 1v2 situations.
This all packaged with the fact that it's extremely hard to catch and kill you makes it a very attractive package.
Price tag including snakes would be about 1.2b. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Mr Linderman
Selective Extinction
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:43:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Mr Linderman on 16/05/2007 14:41:13
Originally by: Ryysa yeah but you have no chance to kill ratter in 0.0 with crow or frig for that matter...
Really depends what there ratting, if you can tank there dmg and shoot there weakness then a punisher could take em down ( granted it will take all day) really depends what the target is and what tank he's fitting. my preference would be a Punisher or Vengeance or Crusader, seen a Crusader take down a Raven before so its no impossible.
Mr L
"In conflict, straightforward actions generally lead to engagement, surprising actions generally lead to victory." - Sun Tzu
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Mr Linderman
Selective Extinction
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 16/05/2007 14:37:29 In that case, speedfitted curse with at least LG snakes.
You should be able to reliably kill any non-capship npcer you encounter, and should be also more than able to give most pvpers a run for their money in a 1v1 or 1v2 situations.
This all packaged with the fact that it's extremely hard to catch and kill you makes it a very attractive package.
Price tag including snakes would be about 1.2b.
Evil
have to agree though if money is not a problem a well fitted HAC or Recon will do well in solo pvp specially with imps.
Mr L
"In conflict, straightforward actions generally lead to engagement, surprising actions generally lead to victory." - Sun Tzu
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Ratch3t
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:50:00 -
[10]
Thanx for the replies.
I know a frig could take down some NPCer's but I did say effectivly, I don't class a 2 hour time frame as being particulary effective.
Could I go any smaller than a pilgrim whilst still being able to take down ratting BS's in a reasonable amount of time?
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Mr Linderman
Selective Extinction
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ratch3t Thanx for the replies.
I know a frig could take down some NPCer's but I did say effectivly, I don't class a 2 hour time frame as being particulary effective.
Could I go any smaller than a pilgrim whilst still being able to take down ratting BS's in a reasonable amount of time?
Ishkur might be an option, tech 2 drones and guns can bring on a reasonable DPS for a frig, other than that I'd say stick to HAC's and Recons for small effective solo pvp ships.
Mr L
"In conflict, straightforward actions generally lead to engagement, surprising actions generally lead to victory." - Sun Tzu
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Chode Rizoum
Minmatar Temptation inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:18:00 -
[12]
why do smaller then a vagabond ?
TEMPTATION INC. Killboard |
Ratch3t
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:21:00 -
[13]
Because in my eyes smaller = better.
If I went just for DPS (no NOS capabilitys), how much dps do I need to be looking to get?
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Chode Rizoum
Minmatar Temptation inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ratch3t Because in my eyes smaller = better.
If I went just for DPS (no NOS capabilitys), how much dps do I need to be looking to get?
a good 300-400 dps normally nukes a npcer decent
TEMPTATION INC. Killboard |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:42:00 -
[15]
Curse is much much better than vagabond for solo. Vagabond is good for ganking frigs/cruisers as support, it's very bad as solo ship. You won't kill a half-decently fitted raven with a vagabond...
Curse advantages: 1) Dampeners, enemy can't lock you. 2) NOS, meaning you can shut off the tank and let the npc kill them or you can use your drones ofcourse. 3) Can sit back at longer range and still do damage with faction disruptor. 4) Drones - doesn't need ammo. 5) Can speedtank all the time. 6) High resistance to EW
Vagabond advantages: 1) Higher raw damage output (however, if they have cap to tank it doesn't matter). 2) Direct damage, kills smaller/weaker targets very fast. 3) Faster
Vagabond disadvantages compared to curse: 1) High vulnerability to EW (curse has 3x locking range and 2x sensor strength of vaga, vagas guns get screwed with more than 1 td on them). 2) High vulnerability to NOS. 3) Tracking - thus unable to speedtank all the time 4) Needs ammo.
So generally if you want to go purely solopwn, then nothing beats the curse, or if you are on a much smaller budget, a pilgrim is a very good ship for it's money. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Cherab
Minmatar Swedish Academy
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
Originally by: Ratch3t Because in my eyes smaller = better.
If I went just for DPS (no NOS capabilitys), how much dps do I need to be looking to get?
a good 300-400 dps normally nukes a npcer decent
Is the blasteranis the only frig wich can get up in those dps:es?
--------------------------------------------------- Regarding nerfs & boosts:
Nerf rocks, paper is fine /Scissors |
Chode Rizoum
Minmatar Temptation inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ryysa Curse is much much better than vagabond for solo. Vagabond is good for ganking frigs/cruisers as support, it's very bad as solo ship. You won't kill a half-decently fitted raven with a vagabond...
Curse advantages: 1) Dampeners, enemy can't lock you. 2) NOS, meaning you can shut off the tank and let the npc kill them or you can use your drones ofcourse. 3) Can sit back at longer range and still do damage with faction disruptor. 4) Drones - doesn't need ammo. 5) Can speedtank all the time. 6) High resistance to EW
Vagabond advantages: 1) Higher raw damage output (however, if they have cap to tank it doesn't matter). 2) Direct damage, kills smaller/weaker targets very fast. 3) Faster
Vagabond disadvantages compared to curse: 1) High vulnerability to EW (curse has 3x locking range and 2x sensor strength of vaga, vagas guns get screwed with more than 1 td on them). 2) High vulnerability to NOS. 3) Tracking - thus unable to speedtank all the time 4) Needs ammo.
So generally if you want to go purely solopwn, then nothing beats the curse, or if you are on a much smaller budget, a pilgrim is a very good ship for it's money.
:(
i must have a neurological problem.. all does dead ravens
geuss my vagabond is magic
TEMPTATION INC. Killboard |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 15:58:00 -
[18]
afaik no frig can get up to 400 dps.
sgb
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josti78
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:02:00 -
[19]
myrm and mebbe hurricane <---alto not smaller then a curse...they are alot cheaper
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Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:15:00 -
[20]
Ishkur?
---
Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ryysa on 16/05/2007 16:21:55
Originally by: Chode Rizoum :(
i must have a neurological problem.. all does dead ravens
geuss my vagabond is magic
Ganking noob, badly fitted NPC hunter while he has 3 BS on him is hardly skillful. I can and have done it too... so? I have flown vagabond for well over a year + snakeset + faction ****, it doesn't get anywhere close to what a curse can do with a t2 fitting solo.
Also, your vagabond doesn't do 400 dps from 18+ km. I can post graphs with max skills to back that up if you like.
Fact is, any decently fitted raven with omnitank (only noobs fit rat specific hardeners for npcing in 0.0) and a heavy nos will own you.
If he doesn't have nos, he might as well uninstall, since he will die to 2 ceptors without nos easily.
Originally by: josti78 myrm and mebbe hurricane <---alto not smaller then a curse...they are alot cheaper
Cheaper is relative... a pilgrim or speedfitted curse will survive longer in the hands of a skilled pilot than 5 myrmidons :) Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
lofty29
Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Marquis Dean Ishkur?
Ranis does more. --- My sig has gone into exile |
Ratch3t
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:35:00 -
[23]
Although not very practical an ishkur can get over 400dps without scooping and deploying more drones.
If you scoop and deploy heavy's it can just about squeeze 700dps I think although again using a very unpracticle setup.
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Chode Rizoum
Minmatar Temptation inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 16/05/2007 16:21:55
Originally by: Chode Rizoum :(
i must have a neurological problem.. all does dead ravens
geuss my vagabond is magic
Ganking noob, badly fitted NPC hunter while he has 3 BS on him is hardly skillful. I can and have done it too... so? I have flown vagabond for well over a year + snakeset + faction ****, it doesn't get anywhere close to what a curse can do with a t2 fitting solo.
Also, your vagabond doesn't do 400 dps from 18+ km. I can post graphs with max skills to back that up if you like.
Fact is, any decently fitted raven with omnitank (only noobs fit rat specific hardeners for npcing in 0.0) and a heavy nos will own you.
If he doesn't have nos, he might as well uninstall, since he will die to 2 ceptors without nos easily.
Originally by: josti78 myrm and mebbe hurricane <---alto not smaller then a curse...they are alot cheaper
Cheaper is relative... a pilgrim or speedfitted curse will survive longer in the hands of a skilled pilot than 5 myrmidons :)
well aint someone a big meany...
but still dont belive you!
TEMPTATION INC. Killboard |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:43:00 -
[25]
k, 1v1, your vagabond vs my raven? sisi? TQ? Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool |
Chode Rizoum
Minmatar Temptation inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:54:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Chode Rizoum on 16/05/2007 16:52:36
Originally by: Ryysa k, 1v1, your vagabond vs my raven? sisi? TQ?
let me break it down...
the thing you are saying is that..
Snake Beats rabbit
and rabbit can never beat snake..
i have seen enough in eve to say.. why should a vagabond not be able to beat a raven ?
sure a raven might win ? but on the other hand maybe the vagabond will win the other day...
TEMPTATION INC. Killboard |
Ratch3t
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Posted - 2007.05.16 17:28:00 -
[27]
Would doing 150dps (actuall dps not just some dream number with all perfect shots) be able to take anything down at all or not?
What about if they already had some rats on them?
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DarkElf
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.16 17:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ratch3t Would doing 150dps (actuall dps not just some dream number with all perfect shots) be able to take anything down at all or not?
What about if they already had some rats on them?
for sure it can. remember most npc'ers have aweful fits. i've seen countless bs kills from a single crow and that's puts out way less than 100 dps most often. it's all about targetting their weakest resists. killing raven in none sansha space is fun against their 0 em resists on shields. an amarr af can probably do it.
DE
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Sparkius
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.16 17:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: DarkElf an amarr af can probably do it.
Probably? That makes Amarr cry :-( <----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence." - Anoymous |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.16 18:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ratch3t Would doing 150dps (actuall dps not just some dream number with all perfect shots) be able to take anything down at all or not?
What about if they already had some rats on them?
A Large rep II does 800 repair per 15s An XL Booster II does 600 / 5 seconds.
It's not all that uncommon to see a LAR II running sustainably on a BS. It's pretty near impossible to run an XL booster II flat out. (Gistii is really the only way)
Default shield resists are 0, 20, 40, 60 EM, THerm, Kin, Expl. Default armour resists are a little more varied, as each race gets a few extra percent on some damage types. Gallente are 10, 35, 35, 60, Amarr 20, 25, 35, 60, Caldari 10, 25, 45, 60 and Minmatar 10, 25, 35, 70.
Ratters, being not entirely stupid, tend to fit hardeners for the damage types they're 'expecting'. So against sanshas, you'd see EM/Therm hardeners, and so on.
With a 0% resist, of course 53 dps will break a single LAR II tank. Even if it's sustainable. (Dual repper tanks are _possible_ but uncommon to find sustainable ones).
At a 50% resistance, well, you'll need to put double the damage on to break the tank. Which is still doable in a frigate.
It's a bit harder dealing with a booster tank, as the 'raw' amount is higher. However it's also the case that an XL booster 'just won't' sustain, so you also just need to keep it up, and if you're lucky the'll panic and wipe their own cap.
This of course, assumes you're actaully able to avoid taking (much) damage yourself somehow. Easier said than done, true, but then unless it has nos, it's not all _that_ hard to tank a BS - it's only the drones that are really a threat.
So... to answer your question, 150dps will do enough damage to break a single repper tank, with a 66% resistance. This is enough to kill a BS, but you do have to rely on being able to pick your damage types as once they're not hardening up because of the NPCs they're facing. If you time it right, and they're being pounded by 3 2mil NPC rats at the same time, well, your life is so much the easier.
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