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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18964
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 09:23:13 -
[1] - Quote
M3tamorph wrote:Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?
It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???
No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated.
Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships.
This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18965
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 09:54:20 -
[2] - Quote
Kaze Mester wrote:
Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days.
No the problem is giving people the tools to abuse. They could have added a ton of great high end content but we would have had the same issue with a ton of isk entering the system due to carriers and supers making bank in anoms. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18967
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Posted - 2017.06.12 14:44:24 -
[3] - Quote
RKJakTup wrote:
not really, i see what your trying to say but they can do it where you cant use caps to do some type of end game just by adding gates. and they can drop supcap mods to bring up the value of subcaps in pve and isk gathering. witch in turn ups the isk value of the ship witch is risk = reward
Add gates and you make the problem of not being able to catch anyone bigger.
What they could do is make this change as a temporary fix and then move to make anoms unfarmable for supers by adding dreadnoughts that don't have a bounty that spawn if a capital is on grid. They then unerf carriers and supers. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18967
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 14:48:06 -
[4] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.
This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players. Then why won't you simply decrease reward from NPC Bounties. Nerfing one ship type won't solve the problem.
Because that also hurts the many more people who were not causing a problem. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18970
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 21:50:46 -
[5] - Quote
Jed Airtech wrote:sabastyian wrote:[quote] Currently in June; 1749 Vnis have been lost for 191.66b 270 Carriers have been lost for 683.73b 34 supers have been lost for nearly 1.1T If you are going to focus on numbers why don't we focus on how many of each ship were lost during the activities as well as looking at fighter losses. If youre so focused on how high tier ships that take ages to train into ( or at the very least a lot of isk for injectors ) because they add to much money, why dont you adress how 19.1-20% of null-sec isk is made by characters that can be trained within 2 months. It's because they are not focused on real facts. They believe something, so they went to their numbers to find some that said what they believe.
If we are going to go on about cherry picking numbers how many of those ships died doing PVE? Also how many died in the 5 days that were used by the OP?
Frankly I would much rather see people ratting in cruisers than supers as that means I can actually attack them solo. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18970
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 22:03:56 -
[6] - Quote
singthegrief wrote:As i was one of the people who lost his **** over the changes, i do think this was a good call on your part to "nerf your nerf". That being said it doesn't change how i feel. I have spent years and tons or real money and isk to get my toon to be able to fly a nyx perfectly. and i am by no way a rich man in eve. I am in no way a 1%er! In my opinion after these changes that investment is not worth what i feel it was. i did not inject in to one i did it the hard way with sweat and time and real money though subscribing. now my huge ship that cost me 10s of billions of isk is not worth anything anymore to me. i don't want to stress that enough TO ME. I do understand that you need to keep the market and economy right side up. but if you would have never added the cheat code "injectors" this would have never been as big as a problem as it is today. You wanted to go in the direction of EA with **** ton of micro-transactions . even after people like me already have to omega to continue to have the same out of the game. you have turned it in to a pay to win game. and i for one will still be finding other things to play. after a good 11 years playing. one last note about the comments made by CCP Quant. It doesn't matter if we are being "whiners" or not its not a good business practice to talk **** about the so called "1 percent" even if it was tried to be swept under the rug. remember we paid for this game to keep running when your log in numbers where low and you did not know where this game would be going.
A 10% nerf to your super is enough to make you quit?
I honestly have to ask if you are even playing the game. Seriously, when was the last time you took your super out to go stomp on another alliance in a war? These things don't get used offensively as it is, this nerf is going to have very little impact in PvP because nobody uses them anyway. Hell, carriers are a bit of a rarity too, its mostly just FAX and dreads.
Lets be realistic, if you are going to quit over this then you will be quitting over something else anyway. This isn't about PvP because nobody is using them unless they can guarantee their safety and it isn't about skill injectors. This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this **** before. Did CCP **** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, they only surprise is that it took this long. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18972
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 22:15:34 -
[7] - Quote
Marcel Garsk wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is simply rage at money making machines getting a nerf, we have seen this **** before. Did CCP **** up? Yes. I have seen this coming from day one of the carrier changes which is why I didn't bother to train any alts into it, the only surprise is that it took this long. Yes! Carrier training was not smart idea. Much wiser idea is to undock fifty VNIs...
Or as is my case, just the one.
In hindsight I should have trained the carrier because it went on for so long I could have made bank but I expected CCP to stop the problem a lot earlier. This is way bigger than the tracking titans were when they got nerfed. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18972
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 22:33:20 -
[8] - Quote
Beast of Revelations wrote:
I don't get the mentality and sentiment. You want big fat multi-billion ISK super-ships which are only good for, and only used for, PvE?
That's exactly what is happening now.
Beast of Revelations wrote: If yes, I think it's sad and silly, but whatever. We have big end game ships that are only good for PvE. What a buzzkill.
If no, then why aren't you supporting fixing the damn things? Isn't this going the opposite direction - nerfing them?
Beyond that, isn't it stupid beyond all measure to fix their stupid problem IN THIS MANNER? We're gonna nerf an 'effing ship because of ISK? Really? Like, isn't there literally a million other things you could do to fix the problem rather than nerf an 'effing ship?
Its happened a few times in the past. Tracking titans, carriers, AFKtar.
Beast of Revelations wrote: - What about not letting the damn things in anoms in the first place? Wouldn't that be better?
- What about changing some numbers so that the rats blast the fighters out of the sky at a much higher rate?
- What about bringing back a triage module so that the damn thing has to be immobile for minutes at a time to deploy fighters to any effect?
Christ man, that's three things off the top of my head IN 30 SECONDS OF THOUGHT. What could I come up with if I actually spent a little time and energy and thought about it?
You mean this was the only damn solution to come up with, and you're happy with it?
All of which take time, this is by are the easiest and quickest way to fix the problem in the short term. The rate at which isk was being generated means we can't wait several months for the other fixes, damage was being done and the longer we wait the more harm it does.
I have been calling for PvE to be revamped for years now.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18975
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 23:03:39 -
[9] - Quote
Johnathan Hubble wrote:Could you show all data for the mots popular ratting ships including the rattle the machariel ishtar etc?
also clarify what they mean by T1cruiser are VNIs included? this data set doesn't tell us enough to make a real opinion nor does it tell them enough to commit to anything.
Yes VNI are counted as T1 cruisers in stats, always have been. This is more than enough data to see the problem.
Johnathan Hubble wrote: ccp if you could be so kind as to expand your public data set to include the top 10 bounty earning ships in order from most isk earned on average per month to least it might go a ways to helping clear some stuff up.
What exactly would this add? They listed the relevant data from supers, carriers and the next most popular ship class for ratting T1 cruisers.
Johnathan Hubble wrote: if your not willing to do that because you noticed the data does not match what you thought may i recommend spending a bit more time researching this before committing to anything?
Stop grasping for straws. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18975
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 23:14:28 -
[10] - Quote
Stevo patriot wrote:so i know im late to the party but heres my two cents.
ive seen your concorde battleship gets a bounty & payout bonus based on sec status...
if as the data suggests supers are taking a disproportionate part of the bounty pool by ooooh lets say your first iteration of 30%..... why can you not just add a bounty payout reduction to that hull?????
this will leave the weapons alone to be used in pvp and not nerf citadels un warranted.
i mean...... it makes sense to me that if you want to nerf bounties due to certain ships you nerd the payout to those ships. not the weapons they use, especially when their used on other not connected structures
It is likely a thing tied to sec status so cant work on supers and carriers in the way you want. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18975
|
Posted - 2017.06.12 23:19:35 -
[11] - Quote
Johnathan Hubble wrote:they didn't say that here they should have and honestly they want us to see their side they need to show all the facts not just part.
i mean rough figures is this going to get them their desired changes or will it help a little and then the trend continue for reasons not related to this particular nerf
i don't care what they do if i don't like it i don't have to play(not a rage quit just being honest)
but they do have to stick with the game as its their jobs and if they don't have the patients to fully research issues to their core then maybe they need more assistance?
How exactly would knowing what T1 haulers are making in bounties help? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18976
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 08:23:24 -
[12] - Quote
ottomans proud wrote:Instead of nerf the fighter nerf the player who rat all day. It is not fait for those player who has only 1-2 hour for ratting. You can think about the limitation for each player for ratting a day for example
first 2 hour the damage is by % 100 after
3 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 95 4 hour nerf the fighter damage down to % 90
like this you can calculate this and i think everyone will be happy.
So if I only get one day to go ratting I should be screwed over? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18976
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 08:40:33 -
[13] - Quote
Analius Glover wrote:I'm still not satisfied with this changes because it has nothing to do with rebalancing but rather penalyzing. The best solution that was mentioned before would be introducing fatigue like timer/counter which will reduce bounty for hardcore grinders and still will let casual players earn their money and have fun. It could looks like that:
Daily:
<10 sites - 100% bounty >10 sites <20 - 80% bounty >20 sites - 60% bounty ..... etc.
This will let you keep your beloved afk VNIs in good shape as well as smarbombing machariels and reduce carrier/super ISK faucet while maintaining their PvP abilities. Claiming that they are overpowerd is ridiculous so please stop.
This is short term solution tho. We expect adding new types anomalies dedicated for cerriers/supers
Again, this will **** over people who cannot play every day. Why should we punish everyone when its a fraction of the playerbase that are causing the problem? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18976
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 09:58:12 -
[14] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:Destriouth Hollow wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:The Data:LetGÇÖs set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that: - 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
- 24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers
- 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers
Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties. "Don't trust statistics, you didn't forge yourself" (: 22,3% of the isk was earned by 1,4% of the players (supers) 46,5% of the isk was earned by 6,2% of the players (supers + carriers) a) Your 100% even included highsec-miners that shoot an npc frig for a bounty of 5 isk every hour b) These figures don't include that these ships were singleboxing, so it was most likely all the isk these chars earned. c) These chars are likely the highest skilled characters of your 100%. Capitals are a ship of choice for long-time/highskill players. d) It doesn't include HOW LONG these 6,2% ratted. Maybe they ratted 4 times as long as the average other player? Your statistics do include players that log in once a month, shoot a single npc frig and log off again. e) In general this compares people that only get bounties on the side to anomaly ratters that exclusively get the bounties. People that earn bounties on the side are: miners, incursion runners, ded runners, hell even pvpers with gate-rats. If you really want to compare capital-ratting to other ships, do the following: 1) Take only bounties that came from ratting anomalies (caps don't rat anywhere else) 2) Take only bounties that came from nullsec (cap's don't rat anywhere else) 3)Take into account the actual time spent ratting (The amount of bounty-ticks generated will work reasonably) I would REALLY be interested in THAT statistic, as it would actually be usefull information. Like: xx,x% of the ticks in nullsec-anos were done by supers. They earned xx,x% of the nullsec-ano bounties. xx,x% of the ticks in nullsec-anos were done by carriers. They earned xx,x% of the nullsec-ano bounties.
The number will be even worse. They are already showing that supers and carriers are making up around half of the bounties despite being only 6.2% of the population earning bounties. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18976
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 10:05:59 -
[15] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE.
Disgusting is it not? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18976
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 10:07:30 -
[16] - Quote
Axhind wrote:Destriouth Hollow wrote:[quote=baltec1] Nope the statics will be much more evenly for all the reasons I listed. The average capital-ratter rats more per month . I expect FAR more than 6,2% of all nullsec-ano-ticks be generated by caps. FAR MORE. Will be interesting how well/if they can detect multiboxing. Running several ishtars is easy as is running them in the background while working. Something that is not the case with capital ratting. I know that I stopped carrier ratting due to losing fighters if I look away for a sec, while worst that happens in an ishtar is that I get a bit lower tick.
oh its still possible to multibox 2-3 carriers/supers if you have the right rig. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18976
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 10:29:44 -
[17] - Quote
Axhind wrote:baltec1 wrote:Axhind wrote:
Show us this multiboxing of carriers then (no input broadcasting obviously) and just how long can you keep it up manually.
Here you go. Granted its incursions but the same tactic will work for anoms Capitals in incursions? Since when? Have you actually done carrier ratting since the changes to fighter mechanics? LInking some random guy multiboxing subcaps is not evidence of carrier/super multiboxing.
Where did I say capitals in incursions?
Its the setup he is using, with this setup you can have multiple clients operating. You can see exactly what is going on with each client so keeping fighters alive is fairly easy. You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18976
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 10:34:26 -
[18] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
1) That guy is using stratioses and not carriers
Doesn't matter, its the tool he is using we are looking at not the ships.
Destriouth Hollow wrote: 2) Microing 3 squads of fighters is the same work as microing a 5-flight of drones.
A handful of clicks, you can easily operate 2-3 carriers using this system.
Destriouth Hollow wrote: 3) In addition to that the fighters also may need mwd + orbiting
And? The guys running incursions are having to operate a dosen ships including logi. I'm sure you can handle a handful of fighter squadrons.
Destriouth Hollow wrote: 4) The Carriers do MUCH more dmg than stratioses. You will need to lock and attack multiple times as much.
Does a carrier out damage a dosen incursion ships? I doubt it.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18977
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Posted - 2017.06.13 11:56:19 -
[19] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
Such tools will get your account banned however (:
CCP banned input broadcasting, they did not ban multiple clients on one screen. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18977
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 11:58:43 -
[20] - Quote
Mary Timeshift Jane wrote:baltec1 wrote:You can very easily operate 2-3 supers/carriers using this system. OK, proven. You don't have supercarrier and have no clue what you're talking about. You just made a fool of yourself in front of every supercarrier pilot who's ever used it for PVE. Well done.
Only thing we can see here is you are bad at multitasking. It's not hard to baby sit a pair of ratting supers using this tool. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18982
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Posted - 2017.06.13 17:31:55 -
[21] - Quote
Cpt WhiteEye wrote:So what did actually change: I lost 1500 dps on my Hel Before patch it took me around 4 minutes to finish a Combat site. After path it takes me 4 minutes to finish the same site.
CCP NEVER USED A SUPER FOR RATTING AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO RAT WITH THEM.
Im pretty sure this sums up the patch.
PS: Almost forgot rorquals got yet another nefr. They are so useless now its well worth spending 10b on one.
Now you see why they wanted to do the bigger nerf. |
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