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Level 5 missions should be low sec/no sec only

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Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:53:00 - [1] These should be low sec and 0.0 only, and more profitable than level 4 missions for everyone working together in the mission. I dont know what the devs have said about this, but I feel we've had enough of people getting extreamly rich in the safe, laggy mission hubs with no risks. Its time that the people who do risk their neck get good rewards for it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
PredatorPT Stormlord Battleforce Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:56:00 - [2] Isn't that how it's gonna be done? Or have the devs changed their minds recently?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:56:00 - [3] Originally by: PredatorPT Isn't that how it's gonna be done? Or have the devs changed their minds recently? Not sure, I havent heard anything about it. Maybe they have already decided on keeping them to low sec and 0.0? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:02:00 - [4] welcome to your parent's wedding... better read about the sht you are going to post sht about bnefore you post sht about that sht. goddamn 2mins of life wasted :'(.
MattSB Domination.	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:02:00 - [5] Edited by: MattSB on 18/05/2007 11:01:21 I'm sure that in the dev blog said they would be in low sec only . . . Saying that though last time i had a nose at them on sisi the only caldari lvl 5 agents (albeit just tester ones) were both in hi sec Quote: welcome to your parent's wedding... better read about the sht you are going to post sht about bnefore you post sht about that sht. goddamn 2mins of life wasted :'(. Eh ?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:05:00 - [6] Originally by: MattSB Saying that though last time i had a nose at them on sisi the only caldari lvl 5 agents (albeit just tester ones) were both in hi sec I hope its just for testing purposes. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Adaris Dark and Light inc.	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:07:00 - [7] agreed * * * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:10:00 - [8] Think I did indead read in a blog about it that they would be low-sec only.
Chadawahee Amarr Debiloff's Vanguard Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:11:00 - [9] I seriously doubt that peeps will start going lowsec in their faction geared ships all of a sudden if you move l5's (eg the current high reward l4's) towards lowsec. I only do missions now because it yields me more then 00 ratting, the calculation for that includes the risk i take of losing my ship once in a while in 00. Its no secret if you know eve well enough that lowsec empire (apart from "pocket systems") is far more dangerous then 00. Only if ccp creates something realy valuable to fight for in lowsec, perhaps COSMOS stuff or so, then it will be worth it to fight for.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Chadawahee I seriously doubt that peeps will start going lowsec in their faction geared ships all of a sudden if you move l5's (eg the current high reward l4's) towards lowsec. I only do missions now because it yields me more then 00 ratting, the calculation for that includes the risk i take of losing my ship once in a while in 00. Its no secret if you know eve well enough that lowsec empire (apart from "pocket systems") is far more dangerous then 00. Only if ccp creates something realy valuable to fight for in lowsec, perhaps COSMOS stuff or so, then it will be worth it to fight for. You dont need faction fitted ships since these are co-op missions where your combined firepower and tank will exceed anything you can put together on your own. It sounds awesome to me and im really looking forward to these missions myself. They sound like a real challenge. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:12:00 - [11] Well what i hear it's kinda obvious, on some L5 and L6 mish u can use capships... and what do u know? those can only be used in low sec so that solves ur problem. offcourse they could decide to bring it down a few notches and still stick them in hi sec, but then i'm not sure how L5's will be.. i mean u need to make it so it will be near impossible for a solo person to do them (i think L5 and L6 should be group missions only) or u just end up with a better version of L4 and people will flock to those hi sec systems to run L5 missions if there soloable. for me the best thing would be to keep L4's as they are, put L5 and L6 in low sec and make sure there a group effort only. Anyways we'll see where this will go. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Chadawahee I seriously doubt that peeps will start going lowsec in their faction geared ships all of a sudden if you move l5's (eg the current high reward l4's) towards lowsec. I only do missions now because it yields me more then 00 ratting, the calculation for that includes the risk i take of losing my ship once in a while in 00. Its no secret if you know eve well enough that lowsec empire (apart from "pocket systems") is far more dangerous then 00. Only if ccp creates something realy valuable to fight for in lowsec, perhaps COSMOS stuff or so, then it will be worth it to fight for. Yes it's more dangerous. But so what? Some people have been living for oh years really. And to be honest lvl 5 missions are profitable enough to risk your ship over.
Shadowsword Kermit Space Industies	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:19:00 - [13] AFAIK, and I followed closely the subject, CCP thought about putting some lv5 agents in a few 0.5 systems, but I don't think they did more than that. For the moment it's supposed to be low-sec and 0.0 only... ------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Shadowsword AFAIK, and I followed closely the subject, CCP thought about putting some lv5 agents in a few 0.5 systems, but I don't think they did more than that. For the moment it's supposed to be low-sec and 0.0 only... If they do that, then those systems will become severly crowded, just like Motsu, Saila etc. Nobody will risk their neck in low sec/0.0 if its optional. I really, really hope they put ALL of these in low sec and 0.0. The game needs it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Shadowsword AFAIK, and I followed closely the subject, CCP thought about putting some lv5 agents in a few 0.5 systems, but I don't think they did more than that. For the moment it's supposed to be low-sec and 0.0 only... If they do that, then those systems will become severly crowded, just like Motsu, Saila etc. Nobody will risk their neck in low sec/0.0 if its optional. I really, really hope they put ALL of these in low sec and 0.0. The game needs it. Yeah, even 1 in 0.5 makes the entire point moot. And you could just as well put all of them in 0.5 then. Atleast the crowding would be less bad then.
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:30:00 - [16] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Shadowsword AFAIK, and I followed closely the subject, CCP thought about putting some lv5 agents in a few 0.5 systems, but I don't think they did more than that. For the moment it's supposed to be low-sec and 0.0 only... If they do that, then those systems will become severly crowded, just like Motsu, Saila etc. Nobody will risk their neck in low sec/0.0 if its optional. I really, really hope they put ALL of these in low sec and 0.0. The game needs it. I know a system where a wehole bunch of people quite happily run lvl 4 missions in low sec. But then if it were a high sec system, having 3 top Quality lvl 4 kill agents and 3 top Quality lvl 3 kill agents in the same system, it'd probably have an average population > 10 Anyway, low sec encourages ppl to work together, and so will these missions in theory, so kinda goes hand in hand / makes sense. People who don't want to risk x billion isk ships in low sec need to make more friends, so that they reduce the risk Khaldari Research Services KPA Recruiting!
Radioactive Babe Red Frost	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:43:00 - [17] I hope they are all in 0.0 near to low sec so interlopers get called primary with impunity (near to low sec so alliances dont take them over). Low sec systems with lvl 5 will have more gate/station camping that you can shake a stick at, 0.0 and you can have some fun on a more level playing field (i.e. without gate guns helping them) /me Waiting for the pirates to go "waaaaaaaaaaaaa"
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:52:00 - [18] Hi Jim, do you come with every thread ? Yes I support this idea, it would hopefully give low sec the reward it needs to atract more pilots. Furthermore I think pilots shouldnt get agrod by guns if they shoot a - sec player in low sec.. Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/05/2007 11:02:19 These should be low sec and 0.0 only, and more profitable than level 4 missions for everyone working together in the mission. I dont know what the devs have said about this, but I feel we've had enough of people getting extreamly rich in the safe, laggy mission hubs with no risks. Its time that the people who do risk their neck get good rewards for it. Amen to that. If CCP put 2 level 5 agents in 0.5+, 99% of the population would flock to those 2 agents. So it might as well put all agents in 0.4. The thing that people don't see, is that agent runners bring a whole ecosystem of other pilots to the mission hubs. You have traders, pirates, manufacturers, alliances looking for pilots, etc. It's not simply going to be you, two mates, and a 0.4 system full of pirates. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Sinder Ohm Hi Jim, do you come with every thread ? Yes, Im included free in your subscription. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Gabriel Magnar	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:38:00 - [21] I think they should be spread out evenly. Who wants to risk their ship with a PvE setup in a PvP environment? That's the real issue right there. The truth is that the whole "risk vs. reward" dealio is totally out of whack. Why would you risk going down to low sec where you make marginally more doing missions? Or maybe you just want more targets with their pants down (i.e. PvE setup) to shoot at. And while we're on it, how are you gonna salvage such a mission? With just one salvager maybe? Can't drop all your guns and you can't bring a ship kitted just for that. Hell salvaging takes too long as it is anyway, such a grind.
Pia Zawa	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: PredatorPT Isn't that how it's gonna be done? Or have the devs changed their minds recently? Not sure, I havent heard anything about it. Maybe they have already decided on keeping them to low sec and 0.0? Why do you post this crap then, if you haven't heard/don't know?
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:50:00 - [23] Originally by: Chadawahee I seriously doubt that peeps will start going lowsec in their faction geared ships all of a sudden if you move l5's (eg the current high reward l4's) towards lowsec. I only do missions now because it yields me more then 00 ratting, the calculation for that includes the risk i take of losing my ship once in a while in 00. Its no secret if you know eve well enough that lowsec empire (apart from "pocket systems") is far more dangerous then 00. Only if ccp creates something realy valuable to fight for in lowsec, perhaps COSMOS stuff or so, then it will be worth it to fight for. Cool. Then there'll be something for those of us without enormously expensive faction-fitted ships but with some friends to do then.
Earl Black	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:56:00 - [24] This isn't the same Jim who made a sizable wallet from trading before they fixed the the markets ? I remember you telling others in corp chat about how easy it was to make money, when you had enough you went low sec hunting, then came back to the forums, only too keen to tell everone how much of a buzz it was. Can be good when you have plenty of cash to fund the fun, and cash that was made all in safe space, huge profit safe space and no risk at all. Same old faces all saying how there shouldn't be so much money in empire or missions but only after they filled their wallets. Btw you wont remember me as this toon replaces the one I sold, But I remember you.
Kassandra Tillman	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/05/2007 11:02:19 These should be low sec and 0.0 only, and more profitable than level 4 missions for everyone working together in the mission. I dont know what the devs have said about this, but I feel we've had enough of people getting extreamly rich in the safe, laggy mission hubs with no risks. Its time that the people who do risk their neck get good rewards for it. The question is why do you care?
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Gabriel Magnar Who wants to risk their ship with a PvE setup in a PvP environment? Me. I am hoping that the proposed feature of allowing the mission rewards to be split between the group of players doing the mission will allow us to form a reasonable battlegroup. So that will be able to deal with any pirates that should have the termerity to try and make the game more interesting for us. But also able to handle the mission without too much problem. I'm experimenting on the test server just now to see if I can come up with such a battlegroup.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:22:00 - [27] waaaaaah. so just because you don't choose to make money a certain way, it's all the sudden ebil and unfair? People argue when their personal views are at odds, whereas a debate is a more formal method of analyzing the angles of an issue Removed empty image tag. -Rauth
Hectaire Glade Forum Jockey	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:33:00 - [28] I've posted in a few other forums on this already, there are a few problems with assumption that low sec is the right place for level 5s. a) Right now its incredibly easy to find a ship doing missions in space, especially if that player happens to be using drones, which for some reason are easier to scan for than planets. b) NPCs doe not switch targets once engaged, now the level 5 missions we have seen so far all consist of full stage agro. c) Tanking these things takes a PvE fit, you can not spare slots for stabs, damps, ECM etc that might save your butt in PvP, its just not practical Add the above together, a) you are very easy to find, b) you will be under intense fire for at least 30 minutes from the time you warp into a level 5 until you clear down the majority of the big hitters, add in c) that you have a very specific tank and no PvP defence modules, and what do you have? Mission runners in low sec are sitting ducks for pirates, its like shooting fish in a barrel, honestly there is nothing easier than ganking a guy who is under fire from 10+ NPC BS, multiple cruisers and scamming frigs, even the slightest interference will tip the balance. And where there are easy targets, more pirates will be attracted to these locations. Now, lets run through the normal mantra of counters: 1) Bring more people - Gotcha, this has 2 side effects though, it lowers your reward (unless the level 5s are _seriously_ worth doing), and it also increases the time it takes to get ready for a mission, forming gang, waiting corpmates to appear, fit up, get ready ect etc. A Level 5 then becomes a 3-4 hour activity, not a 1-2 hour level 4. 2) Secure the system - Gotcha, but you actually need to secure not only the agent system, but all surrounding jump+1 systems where you might get sent to run the mission, its not just about keeping 1 system safe, that's doable with a decent corp/group of friends, keeping 5-7 systems 'safe' in low sec is impossible due to lack of choke points. 3) Don't run missions when you get hostiles in system - Okay, again though, time becomes a factor of money, your average mission runner is not the player who plays all day each day, the majority of mission runners in empire today play in 1-2 hour blocks. There are many more factors at play here, but it boils down simply, level 5s in low sec will be under-utilized until additional tools can be put into the game to allow the mission runners to increase the safety factor significantly to bring the reward above the risk. Right now the mechanics of the game favor the griefer in low sec, thus people don't on the whole run mission there. Think NPCs who jump on non-ganged players, lockable acceleration gates, mine-able warp in points etc etc. Now, do i support level 5s in high sec? Maybe, i think its silly not to give the empire PvE player additional and interesting content. Making mission running in empire so repetitive that its becomes stale will force people to leave the game over time, not force them to move into low sec or 0.0. Look closely at the demographics of the empire mission runner and you'll find quite a lot of them are 30 something players with family who can only commit small chunks of consecutive time and who need to be able to afk occasionally in relative safety. Making these players bored with the game is not the right answer.
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:00:00 - [29] What you fail to take into account is: Why is 0.0 safer than losec? Because 90% of the time (if you are in friendly space) there are more people there NOT aiming to kill you than the other way around. As losec stands now however, it's just the opposite. Plenty of killes, lone targets. A recipie for disaster in other words. As losec population increases, risk decreases. Because not only will any pirate in the popular systems find himself massively outnumbered 8 out of 10 times, but also, as there are now 20 people in local the chance of YOU being the victim is massively lower than if you were alone or with 2-3 friendlies around. Anyone doubting that this actually works, take a trip to lowsec Khanid, specifically Vezila, where local is normally packed with missionrunners (3 lvl4 q20 agents in one station will do that) and normally a quite safe enviroment. (Safety in numbers) This is just what will happen when lvl5 hits in lowsec only. More people = less risk. So in short, the pirates will get more targets, and probably more careless people to kill, win for them, while missionrunners will not at all be as vunerable as they seem to think, and get better rewards. Win for them. And that ladies and gents (and the rest of you) is what one calls a Win-Win situation. --- We are Recruiting!
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Radioactive Babe I hope they are all in 0.0 near to low sec so interlopers get called primary with impunity (near to low sec so alliances dont take them over). Low sec systems with lvl 5 will have more gate/station camping that you can shake a stick at, 0.0 and you can have some fun on a more level playing field (i.e. without gate guns helping them) /me Waiting for the pirates to go "waaaaaaaaaaaaa" This implies more NPC stations in 0.0 and near the borders too, which would be interesting, but require a whole nother set of considerations Khaldari Research Services KPA Recruiting!

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