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Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.05.20 05:43:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Thesas on 20/05/2007 05:42:35
Edited by: Thesas on 20/05/2007 05:42:02
 Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 20/05/2007 04:25:53
Here's the simplest solution in my books. Just make it so you cant fly a freighter unless you are part of a player-run corp. That way anyone who wants to target hi sec freighters can do so through the use of wardecs, and completely bypasses the issue of how to make hi sec freighters which cant be wardecced safe.
Quote:
I would suggest that before you start imposing restrictions on noobs,
Since when do noobs fly freighters?
Hello.. /wave.. noob here..
Getting quite close to my freighter.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.05.20 08:04:00 -
[182]
"most freighter pilots exploit a loop hole in empire war decs by moving their alts into the undeclarable noob corps, this frustrates the pvpers/war fighters whatever you want to call them so much they gank freighters,"
You mean the same exploit the suicide gankers are using right?
Again the problem is really the people whining about wanting to kill frieghters need to get their sorry ass into low sec/0.0 where they are supposed to be. Then none of this is an issue, and the gankers are at risk like everyone else....
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.05.20 08:07:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
"most freighter pilots exploit a loop hole in empire war decs by moving their alts into the undeclarable noob corps, this frustrates the pvpers/war fighters whatever you want to call them so much they gank freighters,"
You mean the same exploit the suicide gankers are using right?
Again the problem is really the people whining about wanting to kill frieghters need to get their sorry ass into low sec/0.0 where they are supposed to be. Then none of this is an issue, and the gankers are at risk like everyone else....
again off the mark devs keep stating high sec isnt safe, therefore suicide ganking of all ships has and always has been and will continue to be something that can be done with enough firepower at ones disposal
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Fayn Trak
Gallente
Myridian Trading Systems
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Posted - 2007.05.20 08:43:00 -
[184]
They'll be just as vulnerable as any other ship to suicide ganking, it's just the way drone boats preform as the ganker is out of whack with what other ships are capable of doing, The threshold for which it's profitable to gank a freighter will just be higher.
The freighters in npc corps are an issue becasue they collectivley controll vast ammounts of the bulk trade in empire, it's a very lucrative isk earner and places the kind of power that people are supposed to be warring over into the hand of people not exposed to risk of wars.
A herd of cattle
A flock of geese
A lot of isk
remember when sigs were text? |
Psyllus Ktenas
Amarr
BlackHole Entertainment
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Posted - 2007.05.20 10:50:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Psyllus Ktenas on 20/05/2007 10:48:18
IMO the best idea so far was to not allow freighters to be piloted by chars that are in npc corps.
I think its really not in line with the eve spirit of "risk vs. reward" if you have a 100% safe way of making hughe isk while being even afk.
If you wanna trade stuff worth billions of isk then you should at the very least take the risk of being wardeced at some point.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.05.20 10:55:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Fayn Trak
They'll be just as vulnerable as any other ship to suicide ganking, it's just the way drone boats preform as the ganker is out of whack with what other ships are capable of doing, The threshold for which it's profitable to gank a freighter will just be higher.
The freighters in npc corps are an issue becasue they collectivley controll vast ammounts of the bulk trade in empire, it's a very lucrative isk earner and places the kind of power that people are supposed to be warring over into the hand of people not exposed to risk of wars.
Not quite.
You can gank smaller ships with Smart bomb fitted ships. Freighters have enough hitpoints that the smart bombing ships will blast themselves to bits before the freighter pops.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.05.20 10:57:00 -
[187]
there is a balance now tbh we need some freighters taken out of the game
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Okkie2
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Posted - 2007.05.20 11:06:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Laboratus
Not quite.
You can gank smaller ships with Smart bomb fitted ships. Freighters have enough hitpoints that the smart bombing ships will blast themselves to bits before the freighter pops.
I don't know if you've already seen the new Concord in action on the test-server, but i think you can forget to gank smaller ships with smartbombs the way you used to. As soon as Concord enters the scene all ships are jammed and killed almost instantly, so you won't be able to fire much more smartbomb-cycles. This means you will most probably be better of fitting guns because the only reason smartbombs were nice (being able to do damage after Concord has jammed you) is gone.
So if you want to kill a freighter you just need to bring more ships. It will be more difficult to kill a freighter, but still possible.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.05.20 18:08:00 -
[189]
"again off the mark devs keep stating high sec isnt safe, therefore suicide ganking of all ships has and always has been and will continue to be something that can be done with enough firepower at ones disposal"
try smart bombing noobs in frigates see how long you are allowed to do it. Please stop perverting the entire empire isn't safe, to suit your needs of how safe it will be and for whom. Of course it isn;t safe there are NPC's, war decs, you could try to steal from a can.... but suicide ganking with loads of ships is obviously a basic exploit of the limitations of concord. you are simple circumventing the purpose of concord ( which is literally to zoom in so fast and jam you and kill you ) but using loads of ships.
Hey there is no point to arguing it seems concord will deal with drones properly from now on. So that is that.
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.20 18:15:00 -
[190]
Well if you want to just remove freighters from high sec then you might as well go all the way and say nothing above cruisers are aloud in high sec and no T2 ships as they are not need as well.
That would mean no ganking at all in high Sec there you go problem solved 
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Nim9i5
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Posted - 2007.05.26 00:34:00 -
[191]
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Amloe Atakar
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Posted - 2007.05.26 01:43:00 -
[192]
This thread makes no sense whatsoever.
Like telling all the truckers, no semi's on the interstate, you have to use vans now.
Do you realize the effect that would have on the economy? You get an F for complete lack of economic knowledge.
CCP needs to own up to the fact that they need to fix the drone code. Once that is resolved, they then can look into something that can make these ships less invulnerable.
High sec should not be completely safe for any ship, but what you are proposing is just ludicrous.
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Victoria Dantezz
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Posted - 2007.05.26 02:33:00 -
[193]
my $0.02
If it can use a gate... it can go anywhere hi sec included.
if you want to limit it to low sec, make it use a jump drive and not a gate. Thats the way the rest of the capitals work.
If you want to disrupt an alliances ability to freighter in empire, dec them.
If you want to gank freighters, bubble camp popular 0.0 --> low sec boundries like everyone else does.
Wheres the argument? You're mad that you got concorded in an attempt to kill one in empire.
While we are at it why not eliminate the ability to use T2 ships in empire? Their resists are too good, they are harder to gank... waaa waa waa waaa!!!
It basically comes down to this. If it can ue a gate, and gates go to high sec... why can't it?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.26 03:07:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Amloe Atakar
CCP needs to own up to the fact that they need to fix the drone code. Once that is resolved, they then can look into something that can make these ships less invulnerable.
High sec should not be completely safe for any ship, but what you are proposing is just ludicrous.
well after drones get fixed i can just see more like 50 40 domis needed instead of about 12
will work perfectly fine for suicide ganking those npc freighters
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Victoria Dantezz
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Posted - 2007.05.26 03:26:00 -
[195]
LetĘs revisit the topic of risk vs. reward.
A hauler isn't an Amazing amount of reward, but can make descent money pretty quick depending on what it's hauling. This is balanced by the couple of BS's needed to smartbomb one into oblivion.
Now lets ramp this up... a Freighter can have up to a BIL + in it for reward. So why is the idea of needing 600mil in risk (30mil insurance and fit * 20 ships) so out of the question?
Is it just because itĘs logistically more difficult to do? A freighter is a logistically more rewarding target. So naturally it would take more 'risk' to get to the 'reward'.
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frihetskjemper
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:07:00 -
[196]
Originally by: ToxicFire
You know it would be funny, cus who's the first group of people that would start whineing like lil *****es the moment prices started climbing of their favorite mods and ships, because it costs more to transport items around hubs, it would be pirates... they're fine as long as its going their way soon as one little thing is changed that doesn't suit them its WAAAAAAAHH, where as industrialists get hit regularly and don't complain that much really.
Maybe that is the real problem with the game so sensible industrialists never give feedback?
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari
The Empire Nation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:15:00 -
[197]
Please stop. Necroing bad.
Another one bites the dust. |
Magister Instructus
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:16:00 -
[198]
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Ina Mina
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:17:00 -
[199]
There is no problem with freighters, they are balanced. Go to lowsec if you absolutely want to kill people.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:21:00 -
[200]
message form conchord.
"We are sick of keeping frieghters safe to the best of our abilty and then being insulted about it, even after losing so many ships in your defence, thus, freighters are no longer going to be allowed in high sec. you are allowed out but not in. good day."
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I'm working my way through college
target CCP |
Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Minmatar
Grumpy Old Farts
Gruntfuttocks
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:28:00 -
[201]
This is as ridiculous as the "weee my freighter got ganked threads".
Freighters fill a role in the industry side of Eve and going back to "do the trip 17 times in your hauler" would be ridicilous. I do not own a freighter myself, i could train for one as i have the prerequestites but i have no need for such a large cargo yet.
But some of my friends use their freighters legitimetly in high sec and that does not involve flying it into Jita 20 times a day btw.
The sollution to avoid getting ganked is not easy, it involves calculating the need to drop multibillions into its hold and bringing a good armor or shield hp boosting fleetcommander. Maybe even gangmates with remote reppers. IF you feel the need to make a multi billion drop into that cargo hold you'll better well go p[repared and not afkmode to jita. Whining about it wont make it go away neitehr does whining about whining .
Tomorow we'll have a fresh "wee my freighter got ganked in jita" thread gonna be fun 
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Trojanman190
Caldari
Murder-Death-Kill
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:41:00 -
[202]
Make freighters harder to kill. Give them slots and grid for a tank, high slots for nos and cloak. [no turret or launcher slots] You might actually see tanked freighters making 0.0 trips instead of carriers jumping all over the place.
I don't see what the worry about being able to fit expanders is. There are already certain types of commodities that can not be transported in certain types of containers... just make cap ships one of them. Or just make it so cap ships cant undock in high sec.
I think this will make freighters harder targets in high sec, providing balance there, as well as give them the ability to be useful outside of high sec. Right now, unless you have a massive fleet ready, nobody is going to risk moving a freighter through 0.0. If you make them harder to kill, give them some ability to defend themselves, or even let them fit nanos or stabs, i think it will go a long way to making frieghters more common in low sec and 0.0 as well as provide balance against suiciders.
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jongalt
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Posted - 2007.07.24 19:44:00 -
[203]
make freighters immune to cargo scanning.
the freighters will either be full of valuable loot, or "empty" Q-ship decoys....nobody will know but the pilot. 
this keeps suicide-ganking viable, but gives the freighter pilot options for "misinformation" missions, or Q-ship style tactics...
-jg.
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Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 20:15:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Stitcher on 24/07/2007 20:18:21
Even in empire, there are occasions when massive quantities of goods, or a few high-volume goods, need to be transported. In some cases, freighters are the only viable options for cargo transport.
Banning freighters from high-sec would create more of a problem than it would solve.
Unless you felt like bringing in a mid-range "Light Bulk Transport" or something like that, to handle the yawning gulf of cargo capacity that separates deep space transports and freighters.
Or maybe add a cargo capacity penalty to damage control units, and give all freighters a single low slot?
There are so many options, but the fact is that the status quo works just fine. After all, as a rule of thumb it isn't private haulers or independent hauling companies who are being targeted - it's alliance military supply assets, and those are considerably easier for an alliance to replace.
***
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yourmate nate
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Posted - 2007.07.24 20:40:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Tarminic
How exactly are freighter pilots any less honest than other people who do trade runs?
lo
They are freighter pilots, often in n00b corps....doing trade runs in order to sell isk....removing the income of honest n00b traders. We all know traderubns turned into the worse after freighters arrived.
kind regards
yourmate nate
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.24 20:43:00 -
[206]
Originally by: yourmate nate
Originally by: Tarminic
How exactly are freighter pilots any less honest than other people who do trade runs?
They are freighter pilots, often in n00b corps....doing trade runs in order to sell isk....removing the income of honest n00b traders. We all know traderubns turned into the worse after freighters arrived.
1. Please provide evidence that there is any greater frequency of ISK sellers among freighter pilots than normal users.
2. Please elaborate on when and how "traderubns turned into the worse after freighters arrived."
3. How is being in a noob corp a sign of any kind of guilt?
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ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION
IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery. |
Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 20:50:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Stitcher on 24/07/2007 20:50:38
Okay, I think we can safely ignore this guy, on the grounds that he's either stupid, or he's trolling... 
***
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2007.07.24 21:08:00 -
[208]
If CCP wanted CONCORD to jam the drones they would have done it long ago. They don't want that. Attacking drones do not count as agressors in high-sec. That's all.
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frihetskjemper
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Posted - 2007.07.25 00:34:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Sazkyen
If CCP wanted CONCORD to jam the drones they would have done it long ago. They don't want that. Attacking drones do not count as agressors in high-sec. That's all.
That is not possible because my drone does what I say not any other action.
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frihetskjemper
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Posted - 2007.07.25 02:14:00 -
[210]
Originally by: MotherMoon
message form conchord.
"We are sick of keeping frieghters safe to the best of our abilty and then being insulted about it, even after losing so many ships in your defence, thus, freighters are no longer going to be allowed in high sec. you are allowed out but not in. good day."
Then who own freighter sell it for retirement to other guy that will pay a lot to get what not allowed.
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