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It's a sad day for one group of ISK Farmers.

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voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.18 16:59:00 - [1] I'm not much of a PVP'er, but there is one thing I do blow up, and thatÆs typically ISK Farmers. Occasionally, you get a Iteron V, or a Shuttle, but nothing major. Today was a little different. For giggles, I war dec'ed "bob usb Corp" on a hunch, that they are a bunch of filthy farmers. After taking some names, they were gibberish names. Typically when I war dec'ed a farmer corp, they would instantly disband the corp and form a new corporation. How surprising it was to me when they actually had their member count INCREASE after the war dec. After finding the location of some of the farmers, I went hunting and headed towards where some of them were supposed to be. I jumped into Hek, checked local, clear. I jumped into Eystur, checked local, hmm, 1 dude. I continued following the autopilot. When I got to the gate, I saw him warp off and immediately figured it was an indy, but I followed anyway. He warped to the Hek gate and I had my alt sitting in Hek at the Eystur gate ready to scramble him should he jump. When I warped to the Hek gate in Eystur, my eyes turned into little dollar signs and I immediately said to myself "JACKPOT!" I noticed he was inside the gate, so he was WTZ and blatantly not AFK (but he was the other kind of AFK... Absolutely Free Kill). I let him jump before attacking. He jumped, I followed. I had limited fire power, as when I am hunting farmers I typically fit to combat farmer ravens or mining barges, I also have another alt that flies with us that flies a basilisk to pretty much make me invulnerable to farmers because they are too stupid to take out the basilisk's. At this time I had 3 accounts open. 1. voogru 2. A Arazu Alt 3. A Basilisk Alt After he jumped, my alt locked him down, and I put all of the firepower I had, which wasnÆt too much, 4 Torpedo launchers, 3 ogres, 4 Hammerheads and 2x 250mm rails. I added him to my buddy list to watch if he would log off. Surprisingly, he never logged off. Unfortunately I didnÆt manage to fit a web, and I noticed he was trying to make it back to the gate; I was able to go fairly fast and bump him repeatedly to keep him out of the gate range. Slowly but surely, he started losing armor and finally into the structure. I had a lot of "bob usb Corp" members in my buddy list, and I noticed a lot of them logging on, and other ones logging on in bunches. I figured the gig was up and they were going to come attack me to defend their freighter. They didn't make it in time. Destroyed items: General Freight Container (Cargo) Plush Compound 18601 Opulent Compound 6187 Glossy Compound 11939 Lustering Alloy 25147 Glossy Compound 3044 Glossy Compound 2329 Lustering Alloy 7701 Lustering Alloy 6544 Motley Compound 7899 Motley Compound 1736 Motley Compound 14561 Opulent Compound 2021 Opulent Compound 1346 Plush Compound 3826 Plush Compound 7119 General Freight Container (Cargo) Motley Compound 10440 Plush Compound 6299 Lustering Alloy 8684 Glossy Compound 3681 Opulent Compound 2096 Glossy Compound 2979 Lustering Alloy 6265 Motley Compound 8436 Opulent Compound 1445 Plush Compound 4275 General Freight Container (Cargo) Glossy Compound 3925 Opulent Compound 1976 Motley Compound 10138 Lustering Alloy 9101 Plush Compound 6060 I managed to get 43km3 of the loot, but there was 4 cans remaining, each of them seemed to be about half full, at least I suspect. I announced in local and told everyone about the free loot, knowing that there was no way I would be able to get it all, but luckily I was able to buy an obelisk and make about 160-180M isk in loot, but there was much much more. I noticed they had alts going in Iteron Mark VÆs to pickup the loot, they were in NPC corps that used to be in ôbob usb Corpö. For more details, I have posted some screenshots and more kill mails here: http://www.voogru.com/images/bobusb/ I invite other corporations to war dec them, who knows what you might score.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:00:00 - [2] Edited by: voogru on 18/05/2007 16:59:50 Stupid character limit. I will add, that there has been no contact between me, and any corporation members. They have not sent me any hate mail or death threats, etc etc. Absolute silence from them. I'm pretty sure someone isn't going to eat anything tonight.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:05:00 - [3] 2x Ogre + 2x Hammerhead I + 1x Hobgoblin I > 3x Ogre I -------------------------------------------------- http://dojo.fi/~rancid/loituma__.swfAlways look on the bright side
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Setana Manoro 2x Ogre + 2x Hammerhead I + 1x Hobgoblin I > 3x Ogre I Thanks for the advice :). I'll try it out.
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.18 18:13:00 - [5] Dam, i wish i've been theremy wallet woud have given you free exotic dancers for that. Anyway GJ but are you shure they where macros ? Thank You SkyFlyer
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.18 18:21:00 - [6] Edited by: voogru on 18/05/2007 18:21:44 Originally by: General Apocalypse Dam, i wish i've been theremy wallet woud have given you free exotic dancers for that. Anyway GJ but are you shure they where macros ? They aint macros. They are sweatshop workers, they are farming ISK for the purpose of selling it for RL cash. I have never, ever, been wrong against a group of farmers or players that I suspect are farming to make RL cash. I think it's pretty blatant when you blow up billions of ISK of their stuff and they don't say a word to you, that these are not ordinary players. Players whine, farmers usually keep their mouths shut mainly because they can't speak english. Just look at their corporation, it's the default player name with "Corp" added to it, as well as no corporation description, and 53 members now. On top of that they are not in any recruiting channels and they do not accept convos to recruit. So they are only recruiting their own kind. And all of the members have gibberish names.
IWantYourCorpse	Posted - 2007.05.18 18:37:00 - [7] I......LOVE.....doing that! You need to let me in your corp, we'll bust them all! Me love you long ti.....uh........uhh......I swear! I only farm to herp feed my famiry! Seriosuly though, this is a new char but I love popping farmers, excellent job! Thats a pretty big loss for a farmer.
FT Diomedes Gallente Vereor Is Inceptum	Posted - 2007.05.18 19:04:00 - [8] I hate to think how many children are starving because of this self-righteous crusade you are on... ------------------------------------------------ FT Diomedes - That ship looks like one of those centipede things from that game, what's it called? FT Cold - Centipede. FT Diomedes - That's it!
BubbaZanetti	Posted - 2007.05.18 19:22:00 - [9] Originally by: FT Diomedes I hate to think how many children are starving because of this self-righteous crusade you are on... Don't think about it too much. They'll be dead soon and it won't be an issue after that. Voogru gets isk. Kids aren't starving. Win win situation. You're seriously trotting out "think of the children" to stop isk farmer killing? Seriously? Really? Wow.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.18 19:37:00 - [10] Originally by: FT Diomedes I hate to think how many children are starving because of this self-righteous crusade you are on... Maybe they should go farm games that allow RMT. What if the GM bans them? Are you going to whine then?
Sian Tairnesh Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.18 20:01:00 - [11] Originally by: voogru I think it's pretty blatant when you blow up billions of ISK of their stuff and they don't say a word to you, that these are not ordinary players. I know of some corps that have a strict "no contact with the enemy" policy. No whining, no smacktalk, beacuse that's what some people are waiting for. But the other points do indicate that these guys are farmers. On the other hand: Why should farmers be in a player corp?
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.18 20:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Sian Tairnesh Why should farmers be in a player corp? I'm not too sure exactly. A majority of them stay in NPC corps for exactly this reason. Some form corporations though, I suspect they might be using some functions of a corporation to launder ISK.
Chia Mulholland Mulholland Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.18 21:04:00 - [13] Originally by: voogru Originally by: Sian Tairnesh Why should farmers be in a player corp? I'm not too sure exactly. A majority of them stay in NPC corps for exactly this reason. Some form corporations though, I suspect they might be using some functions of a corporation to launder ISK. And let's remember... you've never, ever been wrong about it.
Jak Silverheart Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.18 21:08:00 - [14] Hit up Eystur and you find a lot of those people with giberish names and when you scan them you also find out half of them cant fit a ship worth crap, and they travel in groups of 3-4, you can frequently find them at gates AFK in battleships. Frequently I find them in Domi's and Raven's s few of them have a horrible set up that it pains me (low slots full of BCU's anyone?). Unfortunately I dont recall seeing one who was in a player corp or else I would have got my main to get out of player corp an start his own just to war dec em. This is a 0.9 system in case your wondering, and I know all this since this system is where my carebearing main mission runs Originally by: Scordite Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi?
Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.18 21:26:00 - [15] Neet thing about eve. Lets pretend they weren't farmers for a moment..... Its EVE killing is fine, if you are wrong, bfd. I have a 5.0 security status from being in 0.0 too long, I think the next time I get to do some R&R pvp my sec status needs to be 'spent'. Nice job OP, keep it going.
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.18 21:50:00 - [16] Yarr! NICE kill. Much props I'm at work unable to log in, did you calculate the isk loss of the farmers cargo?
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.19 00:28:00 - [17] Originally by: FT Diomedes I hate to think how many children are starving because of this self-righteous crusade you are on... argh, that will make me feel sorry about molesting farmers for a week or 2... -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.19 00:50:00 - [18] I think Dio was making a joke...
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.05.19 01:16:00 - [19] Are you still at war with them? Can my noob alt in a rifter join and help with the pew pew? ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Temptation inc.	Posted - 2007.05.19 01:19:00 - [20] nano-mach ? TEMPTATION INC. Killboard
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 02:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Chia Mulholland Originally by: voogru Originally by: Sian Tairnesh Why should farmers be in a player corp? I'm not too sure exactly. A majority of them stay in NPC corps for exactly this reason. Some form corporations though, I suspect they might be using some functions of a corporation to launder ISK. And let's remember... you've never, ever been wrong about it. I thought I was clear. I am sure they are all farmers. I am not sure why they choose to decide to form corporations sometimes. Originally by: Lithalnas Are you still at war with them? Can my noob alt in a rifter join and help with the pew pew? Yes, and surprisingly they havent all quit or disbanded. So I'm thinking of letting people go hunting with me. Take note though, several members that I have fetched location on, are in the drone regions (VU-WU2) way out in 0.0 which might explain why they could careless about the war dec and I got astronomically lucky by finding their freighter.
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.05.19 03:04:00 - [22] wow, nice job
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 03:26:00 - [23] Hey! These guys work hard, stop that. By-the-by from the looks of their loot, I would say, on a hunch, they are not macro/isk farmers. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 03:27:00 - [24] Originally by: voogru Edited by: voogru on 18/05/2007 18:21:44 Originally by: General Apocalypse Dam, i wish i've been theremy wallet woud have given you free exotic dancers for that. Anyway GJ but are you shure they where macros ? They aint macros. They are sweatshop workers, they are farming ISK for the purpose of selling it for RL cash. I have never, ever, been wrong against a group of farmers or players that I suspect are farming to make RL cash. I think it's pretty blatant when you blow up billions of ISK of their stuff and they don't say a word to you, that these are not ordinary players. Players whine, farmers usually keep their mouths shut mainly because they can't speak english. Just look at their corporation, it's the default player name with "Corp" added to it, as well as no corporation description, and 53 members now. On top of that they are not in any recruiting channels and they do not accept convos to recruit. So they are only recruiting their own kind. And all of the members have gibberish names. You have "never, ever been wrong." Excuse me, but, how the f*** would you know? Just curious. Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 03:39:00 - [25] Edited by: voogru on 19/05/2007 03:41:32 Originally by: Karlemgne Hey! These guys work hard, stop that. By-the-by from the looks of their loot, I would say, on a hunch, they are not macro/isk farmers. -Karl ISK Farmers work harder than all of us combined, just check Motsu, Aramachi anytime your willing to take a look. I mean, they are on 23/7 doing missions, that's hard work man. Originally by: Karlemgne You have "never, ever been wrong." Excuse me, but, how the f*** would you know? Did you travel to Asia, or wherever their operation is and talk to them? If not, I'm not sure how you could say that you are "never" and let us not forget "ever" wrong about the things you assume people behind characters in an MMO are up to. -Karl Just curious. They are called "hunches", and I typically know how to identify RMT farmers, they don't behave like players. And every hunch I have had, it turned out I was right.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.05.19 05:24:00 - [26] Originally by: FT Diomedes I hate to think how many children are starving because of this self-righteous crusade you are on... Then don't think about it. And tbh, those farmers don't give a damn about us, and expecting us to cry them a river because their life sucks, isn't going to happen.
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.19 05:52:00 - [27] Originally by: voogru ISK Farmers work harder than all of us combined, just check Motsu, Aramachi anytime your willing to take a look. I mean, they are on 23/7 doing missions, that's hard work man. You just made me think of this comic strip. But yeah, most of em are farmers...
Athanasios Anastasiou Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.19 06:29:00 - [28] I wonder how much of the zyd price drop is because of farmers?
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.19 07:31:00 - [29] good work
General Coochie Gallente The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.05.19 10:48:00 - [30] Wether farmers or not, awesome work.
Royaldo KVA Noble Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.19 10:54:00 - [31] damn over 46k plush, thats alot zyd. good job!
Malvahne FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.19 10:59:00 - [32] One player using 3 acounts to kill people make me inside. Nice kill tho ;x
Marduk Starkiller Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2007.05.19 12:22:00 - [33] Good job mate. Give them hell Don't know if they're farmers or not, but they sure are stupid. I call it natural selection.
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.19 12:27:00 - [34] Mizuro scrambler eh...bah I hate rich people cause I'm not (atleast i'm honest)
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 12:55:00 - [35] Originally by: RedClaws Mizuro scrambler eh...bah I hate rich people cause I'm not (atleast i'm honest) I really don't like them getting away so I try and pack as much scramblers as I can. I'm not taking much of a risk of losing it cause they usually can't pvp. They only understand how npcs work. Originally by: Malvahne One player using 3 acounts to kill people make me inside. Nice kill tho ;x They arent people. If these were real players I'd be pwned.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.19 13:57:00 - [36] Very strange setup on that mach. nice to see them used in an alternate way to normal. is it dmg and tank modded out or speed modded? DE
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 14:10:00 - [37] Edited by: voogru on 19/05/2007 14:09:49 Originally by: DarkElf Very strange setup on that mach. nice to see them used in an alternate way to normal. is it dmg and tank modded out or speed modded? DE I call it a PVF (player vs farmer ) setup, you don't usually need much firepower to take out a farmer, so I usually gear up just to lock them down, mostly speed in order to bump them out of gate/docking range. All of the lows are fitted with speed mods and theres 2 speed rigs. In the event that I need tanking, the basilisk heals the crap out of me. 460 shield per second, or split that to both alts, they arent clever enough to take out the basilisk.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 14:11:00 - [38] Quote: They are called "hunches", and I typically know how to identify RMT farmers, they don't behave like players. And every hunch I have had, it turned out I was right. Okay, since you just danced around my question, I'll ask you again. How do you know that your "hunches" are "never, ever" wrong? Alternatively, how do you know that all of your hunches have turned out "right?" Did you go to Asia or wherever their operation is and actually talk to them? Did you petition them and then CCP came back and told you: "By Jove, Voogru, you were right! All these guys are isk farmers!"* Again, how do you know that you have never and ever been wrong. I asked you this before, and unfortunately you simpley saying 'its a hunch that turned out right' completely avoids the question. In fact, it seems to beg the question. "I'm never been wrong" "How is it that you've never been wrong?" "Because I'm never wrong." Anyways, I digress. Feel free to give me a real answer, if you have one. -Karl fyi CCP would never actually respond to a petition that way Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.*
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 14:15:00 - [39] Originally by: Karlemgne Alternatively, how do you know that all of your hunches have turned out "right?" Hmm... when your watching farmers for months and seeing them log on every day, and online most of the time, and suddenly they are offline and I never see them log on again, that's probably not normal. Farmers don't just stop using accounts for no reason.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 15:02:00 - [40] Quote: Hmm... when your watching farmers for months and seeing them log on every day, and online most of the time, and suddenly they are offline and I never see them log on again, that's probably not normal. And why isn't that normal? Lots of people play this game for awhile, some are logged in (like myself) for almost all of the day. Some people even get sick of playing EvE and need a break, or quit the game altogether. Unfortunately, your "proof" that you have "never" (and 'ever') been wrong, is so far pure conjecture on your part. Its seems like you are looking for someone, or some group of people to be X (isk farmers), and therefore assume everything they do is related to X, with no real proof at all. Quote: Farmers don't just stop using accounts for no reason. They will either sell the account on sites such as eBay, or sell it to another group of farmers to farm with it when one group goes out of business. Not to belabor the point, but you are continuing to beg the question. Your assuming before you even get started that these guys are farmers, and therefore, their activity , or in this case their lack thereof, is evidence of farming. In other words, for your argument to even get started, you have to assume the conclusion to believe the premises. Again, Sir, this is a classical case of begging the question. Your premises are supposed to support the conclusion. If we need the conclusion to buy the premises, you've gotten yourself into a wee bit of a logical dilemma . I'd also like to point out, that it is apparently a no-win situation for anyone you accuse of being an isk farmer. It would seem that you are saying you know people are isk farmers because they "stopped using their accounts" for no reason (how you would know their reasoning is still beyond me.) However, you also seem to be saying that if someone you accuse of being an isk farmer continues using their account, then that is evidence they are farmers as well, because farmers either keep using their accounts, sell them on ebay, or give them to other farmers. More simply put, you are saying, something like: "If they are isk farmers and they just stop using their accounts after I call them on it, they are definately isk farmers." and "If they are isk farmers and they keep using their accounts, clearly I was right the whole time, and they are isk farmers." Given all this, I think it would be fair to say that you don't really know that you've "never, ever" been wrong about the people you are slinging accusations about. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 15:16:00 - [41] Edited by: voogru on 19/05/2007 15:18:13 Originally by: Karlemgne blah blah blah yap yap I determine their likelihood of being farmers by their behavior. I'll go thru the process of how I found "bob usb Corp" in the first place. I regularly go through the "headquarters" list in Jita and I'm looking for gibberish name corps. "bob usb Corp" came up, CEO "bob usb". 1. Uncreative corp name, no corporation description. 2. 48 members at the time. 3. Contact CEO, invitation rejected. 4. Contact CEO with various alts, invitation rejected, and not auto-rejected because it took him nearly 2 minutes to reject. 5. Sent eve-mail, no response. 6. Member count increases to 49... pretty amazing when you cant even contact them. 7. Alt sends application, rejected. Member count increases to 50. 8. I declare war. Member count increases to 51. 9. No contact from anyone after war becomes active. I go witch hunting. 10. Find and take out a freighter with billions of ISK of loot. Not a word from them. 11. Take out various other members trying to get back the loot. Not a word from any of them. Now let me ask you, if I were to declare war on a player corporation two things would happen: 1. The CEO would contact me to figure out whats up. 2. They would all come blob my station and try to kill my puny 3-4 man corporation. I declared war on a corporation of over FIFTY members, and take out one of their freighters. AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY CONTACT WITH THEM. AND THEY HAVE NOT EVEN TRIED TO COME KILL ME. What's wrong with this picture? Other then that, do you like farmers or something? Because what these guys are doing are pretty blatant and your the only one that seems to be defending them. Do your own little investigation and see for yourself. Anyone with half a brain will know what these guys are up to.
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.19 15:16:00 - [42] Originally by: Karlemgne Hey! These guys work hard, stop that. By-the-by from the looks of their loot, I would say, on a hunch, they are not macro/isk farmers. -Karl So you blow up ppl got a problem whit that ? Thank You SkyFlyer
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 15:18:00 - [43] Originally by: General Apocalypse Originally by: Karlemgne Hey! These guys work hard, stop that. By-the-by from the looks of their loot, I would say, on a hunch, they are not macro/isk farmers. -Karl So you blow up ppl got a problem whit that ? Huh? Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.05.19 16:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: General Apocalypse Originally by: Karlemgne Hey! These guys work hard, stop that. By-the-by from the looks of their loot, I would say, on a hunch, they are not macro/isk farmers. -Karl So you blow up ppl got a problem whit that ? Huh? If he is right and they are farmers, the EULA does not grant any sort of protection to them as they should be banned. If he is wrong and they are just alts of some alliance farming minerals then its just piracy like priveteers/veto/Snowy/Klepto/Turby..... ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 16:06:00 - [45] Originally by: Lithalnas If he is right and they are farmers, the EULA does not grant any sort of protection to them as they should be banned. If he is wrong and they are just alts of some alliance farming minerals then its just piracy like priveteers/veto/Snowy/Klepto/Turby..... Yeah but... theres no whining and there is no hate mail... it can't be piracy without the whining & hate mail.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.19 16:23:00 - [46] tbh most ppl say that the vast majority of complex farmers are isk sellers but this is not true. i would like to find out what percentage of them are RA alts who fund RA operations. i have found a huge amount of the i've come across have turned out to be. so there's probably a lot of other alliances that do the same. DE
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 16:27:00 - [47] Edited by: voogru on 19/05/2007 16:25:29 Originally by: DarkElf tbh most ppl say that the vast majority of complex farmers are isk sellers but this is not true. i would like to find out what percentage of them are RA alts who fund RA operations. i have found a huge amount of the i've come across have turned out to be. so there's probably a lot of other alliances that do the same. DE You think they would all use gibberish names and join garbage name corporations though? People don't realise that by me war deccing a 50+ man corporation, that if they are real players, and I'm a 3-4 man corporation, it's instant suicide. And by taking out their freighter I've given them every reason to come kick my ass. Nothing happened yet. Heres a few names for you: bob usb sdjh dk (freighter) ok stwe saghf jfh qomnab jf xudfs zxnm bskw ds ess shqft Yeah these guys look pretty legitimate to me.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.05.19 16:50:00 - [48] It's possible that they are an Asian gaming clan, who cannot speak English and see nothing to gain from contact with players outside the clan. However, the balance of probability indicates they are farmers. If they're a clan, they'd be free of an enormous amount of hassle just by saying so.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.19 16:58:00 - [49] Originally by: voogru Heres a few names for you: bob usb sdjh dk (freighter) ok stwe saghf jfh qomnab jf xudfs zxnm bskw ds ess shqft Yeah these guys look pretty legitimate to me. don't see anything suspicious about those names that would indicate they are farmers DE
DEM0H	Posted - 2007.05.19 17:08:00 - [50] With my run-ins with bob usb i would have to agree they are farmers. I doubt they use macros, from what ive noticed is that they run alloys from 0.0 outposts to empire... maybe ammo back but I haven't caught anybody on the return trip. I have no clue about what they do in empire, but I see them quite frequently in 0.0, and not to mention the full rack of stabs. unfortunately all of the haulers me or my brother have popped are full of plush or other high ends, which we end up blowing up because it would take 20 jumps there, and 20 back, which is a waste of time. /me supports the war, even tho bob usb, from my observations, are being completely legal, they are just trade goons.
Iwill DominateU	Posted - 2007.05.19 18:36:00 - [51] who the hell cares if they¦re farmers or not? you got them fair and square. end of story. gj.
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.19 18:53:00 - [52] pretty obvious they are and if they aren't : does it matter?
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 19:34:00 - [53] Edited by: Karlemgne on 19/05/2007 19:32:49 A rather ingenious way to completely and totally ignore the content of my post. You are begging the question with your previous posts, and your former reasoning is inherently flawed, given that you are begging the question, and given that almost every eve player exhibits the behavior of using their character, or not using their character. Quote: I determine their likelihood of being farmers by their behavior. Now we are getting somewhere. We've moved from the certainty contained in your statement "never, ever" to something a bit less certain, "likelihood." In reality I just won right there, and this was all I was really concerned with (making sure you realized that there is a chance you are wrong.) Essentially, just so you know, you've now admited to something more along the lines of, "I think I've had good reason in the past to suspect people of being isk farmers," and moved away from, "I've never been wrong about who I thought was an isk farmer." Quote: I regularly go through the "headquarters" list in Jita and I'm looking for gibberish name corps. "bob usb Corp" came up, CEO "bob usb". As for your evidence, you may, or may not be on to something. I will say for a corp such as "bob usb" there could be an issue around language, i.e. it sounds like giberish because these people (shocker) may actually be from somewhere other than an English speaking country. Then again there could be another explaination (which I will get to in a second.) Quote: 1. Uncreative corp name, no corporation description. 2. 48 members at the time. 3. Contact CEO, invitation rejected. 4. Contact CEO with various alts, invitation rejected, and not auto-rejected because it took him nearly 2 minutes to reject. 5. Sent eve-mail, no response. 6. Member count increases to 49... pretty amazing when you cant even contact them. 7. Alt sends application, rejected. Member count increases to 50. 8. I declare war. Member count increases to 51. 9. No contact from anyone after war becomes active. I go witch hunting. 10. Find and take out a freighter with billions of ISK of loot. Not a word from them. 11. Take out various other members trying to get back the loot. Not a word from any of them. Perhaps this is a shot in the dark here, but judging by their loot, it was taken out of drone space 0.0. Now as a member of a drone space 0.0 alliance, let me suggest the following, based on the loot you found, and the above quote "facts" you used to reach your conclusion: What you really found was an alt corp of a drone space alliance/corp (not mine for the record.) Alt corps such as these are routinely used to process drone alloys, and sell the resulting minerals in empire. This gives the drone space alliance/corp access to an anonymous outlet for their members to make money off of what is cyno'd down from 0.0. This would also explain nobody bothered to accept your convo and eve-mail. It certainly explains why your alt's corp application would be rejected. Now I do admit you could be right about them, that's possible, but having quite a bit of experience with such alt corps, I believe my explination is at least as reasonable as yours. So maybe you should think before popping off about "never, ever" being wrong about people. (cont) Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 19:46:00 - [54] Edited by: Karlemgne on 19/05/2007 19:45:00 (cont) Quote: Now let me ask you, if I were to declare war on a player corporation two things would happen: 1. The CEO would contact me to figure out whats up. 2. They would all come blob my station and try to kill my puny 3-4 man corporation. Perhaps, or perhaps its an alt corp, like I said, where the CEO/Directors aren't on much. Further, if a 3 or 4 man corp were to say, war dec Black Fleet, we'd most likely completely and totally ignore you until such time as you actually engaged us. Even then, there is a chance, you'd still be ignored. Quote: I declared war on a corporation of over FIFTY members, and take out one of their freighters. AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY CONTACT WITH THEM. AND THEY HAVE NOT EVEN TRIED TO COME KILL ME. Interesting to be sure, but again, this falls well short of "proof," beyond doubt, that said corp exists, as you have claimed, soley to farm isk for the purposes of selling it on the internet. Quote: Other then that, do you like farmers or something? Honestly? I neither like, nor dislike isk farmers. I do not buy or sell isk, and I think that its harmful in many ways to the game to do so. Editorializing a bit here, I also see the people who do farm isk for what they are, exploited workers who feed their families based on the work they put into the game. For that reason, I am much more tolerant of them. Though I feel they are harmful for the game as a whole, I also feel that this game economy is not worth affecting the lives of people in real life adversly. Now having said all that, my participation in this thread hasn't been about defending isk farmers. Its been about you flinging about aqusations of wrong doing on a particular corp, then claiming that you have "never, ever" been wrong about what you assume these peoples doings, motivations, and real lives are like. I think its important, always, to not make blatent statements about people, then insist, without absolute proof, that there is just no other way to interpret what's going on, except of course, your interpretation. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Niton Stormrider HCD	Posted - 2007.05.19 19:47:00 - [55] Originally by: Karlemgne A few pages, etc... Dude, why are you so wrapped up in this? let's pretend that this group of idiots was an alt corp of a big alliance: anyone that stupid STILL deserves to get popped. This is EVE, you don't need a reason to blast the heck out of somebody and take their stuff. And it is eye-bleedingly obvious that these guys were farmers. I'm talking frame-the-fecking-kill-mail-as-a-trophy proof. And when the OP talked about "likelihood," it was as in "likelihood=100%". Knock off the semantic babbling already, this is PvP, not linguistical logic 101.
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.05.19 19:50:00 - [56] Karlemagne stop being a ****er tbh :\ Who cares if his reasoning isnt logically sound. NO ONE CARES APART FROM YOU. if your not jesus then stfu thx :\
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 19:58:00 - [57] Originally by: Niton Stormrider Originally by: Karlemgne A few pages, etc... Dude, why are you so wrapped up in this? let's pretend that this group of idiots was an alt corp of a big alliance: anyone that stupid STILL deserves to get popped. This is EVE, you don't need a reason to blast the heck out of somebody and take their stuff. And it is eye-bleedingly obvious that these guys were farmers. I'm talking frame-the-fecking-kill-mail-as-a-trophy proof. And when the OP talked about "likelihood," it was as in "likelihood=100%". Knock off the semantic babbling already, this is PvP, not linguistical logic 101. First of all, I'm a pirate. The particular kill is a good kill, and I commend the OP for it. However, I'm sorry, but it just rubs me the wrong way when someone accuses somebody of something, and swears up and down that they are "never, ever" wrong about people. I would never, ever make such a claim, and lets be fair, people who do make comments like that, deserve to be called on it. Further likelihood does not equal certainty. There is a huge difference between the statement "its likely he shot is friend" and "he shot his friend." That's why the word "likely" exists. Lastly, I'll leave you with this, this isn't about lingustics, though I suppose some of it is about language. Its about being careful what you accuse people of doing, and being aware of how you support what you say. Using a circular argument (begging the question) will get you in trouble in a number of facets of your life, be they school, work, or on internet forums. It is especially disgusting to me, when you use circular logic to label a whole set of people as something. In the future, the OP should say something like "I got a Freighter from people I think are isk farmers," instead of "I killed an isk farmers Freighter and there is no chance I'm wrong about it, 100% of the time I can indentify currency farmers in MMOs, oh and did I mention, I'm never wrong!" Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 19:59:00 - [58] Edited by: voogru on 19/05/2007 19:59:55 Originally by: Karlemgne Now we are getting somewhere. We've moved from the certainty contained in your statement "never, ever" to something a bit less certain, "likelihood." In reality I just won right there, and this was all I was really concerned with (making sure you realized that there is a chance you are wrong.) Essentially, just so you know, you've now admited to something more along the lines of, "I think I've had good reason in the past to suspect people of being isk farmers," and moved away from, "I've never been wrong about who I thought was an isk farmer." And every time I have determined the likelihood of a player or a group of being farmers, I eventually found out, I was right. Therefore, I have yet to be wrong. Originally by: Karlemgne As for your evidence, you may, or may not be on to something. I will say for a corp such as "bob usb" there could be an issue around language, i.e. it sounds like giberish because these people (shocker) may actually be from somewhere other than an English speaking country. Then again there could be another explaination (which I will get to in a second.) Perhaps this is a shot in the dark here, but judging by their loot, it was taken out of drone space 0.0. Now as a member of a drone space 0.0 alliance, let me suggest the following, based on the loot you found, and the above quote "facts" you used to reach your conclusion: What you really found was an alt corp of a drone space alliance/corp (not mine for the record.) Alt corps such as these are routinely used to process drone alloys, and sell the resulting minerals in empire. This gives the drone space alliance/corp access to an anonymous outlet for their members to make money off of what is cyno'd down from 0.0. This would also explain nobody bothered to accept your convo and eve-mail. It certainly explains why your alt's corp application would be rejected. If they were really an alliance alt corporation, then why have they not defended their alts? Are they just going to sit back while I blow them to smithereens? It's not like it's very hard to come attack me. I'm just 1 guy with a bunch of alts. Originally by: Karlemgne Perhaps, or perhaps its an alt corp, like I said, where the CEO/Directors aren't on much. Further, if a 3 or 4 man corp were to say, war dec Black Fleet, we'd most likely completely and totally ignore you until such time as you actually engaged us. Even then, there is a chance, you'd still be ignored. The CEO has been on several times, the player that rejected my application, was also online. No convo. If I war dec'ed a corporation that was your alts, and then I do serveral billion ISK in damages, you would ignore me and not fight back? Well then, I guess you would be a good target to war dec! Originally by: Karlemgne Honestly? I neither like, nor dislike isk farmers. I do not buy or sell isk, and I think that its harmful in many ways to the game to do so. Editorializing a bit here, I also see the people who do farm isk for what they are, exploited workers who feed their families based on the work they put into the game. For that reason, I am much more tolerant of them. Though I feel they are harmful for the game as a whole, I also feel that this game economy is not worth affecting the lives of people in real life adversly. They are supporting cheaters. There are games that they can go farm and RMT is legal in them if they want to support their families. I have no problem with sweatshop farming, if RMT was allowed in EVE I wouldnt touch them (instead id be making tons of money). The way I see it, at least they arent blowing each other up or being suicide bombers in cafes. But it's not, and they are ruining the game and there is nothing worse than undocking and seeing: deqwdjdiwjd do3jqoidj3jd jdsfdsfj foiesjfwoijf fewpkjd djqwoijdqwjid iewdiqwccw coiewjcewc iewjcwejc
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 20:04:00 - [59] Originally by: Velsharoon Karlemagne stop being a **er tbh :\ Who cares if his reasoning isnt logically sound. NO ONE CARES APART FROM YOU. if your not jesus then stfu thx :\ I obviouslly care, and so do some others who have posted on this thread. If you don't give a flying-f* about someone saying "X is an isk farmer, and I'm never wrong about stuff like that," thats your perogative. I personally don't like it when people behave that way, and feel morally responsible to call them on it. Think about it like this. How would you respond if I said "Velsharoon" is an isk farmer and bought his charactor on ebay. To be honest, I know I'm right, because I've never ever been wrong about people I've thought were farming isk and ebayed their charactor. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.19 20:11:00 - [60] Originally by: Karlemgne How would you respond if I said "Velsharoon" is an isk farmer and bought his charactor on ebay. To be honest, I know I'm right, because I've never ever been wrong about people I've thought were farming isk and ebayed their charactor. If I saw his character sold on ebay along with positive feedback recieved, I'd say that would be about a 100% chance of his character being an ebayed character. I don't publicly acuse players of being an ebayed character unless I see their character on ebay, sold, and then positive feedback recieved. I usually petition before the character is sold though.
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.05.19 20:36:00 - [61] I would say well im not one and come get me ***** if you think so :) Seriously, these guys are farmers, or act like it, what more do u want. Im not a farmer, i dont act like it so accuse away :\|
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.19 21:03:00 - [62] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: General Apocalypse Originally by: Karlemgne Hey! These guys work hard, stop that. By-the-by from the looks of their loot, I would say, on a hunch, they are not macro/isk farmers. -Karl So you blow up ppl got a problem whit that ? Huh? Clearly, You have been wrong before in your life and it has scarred you deeply and emotionally. For this I am sorry. There are people however (like myself and voogru for example) that have never been wrong. We can only imagine how this has warped your reasoning and scarred your mind. You cannot beieve the fate that has befallen you, so you try to infect others into believing that they could be wrong too, when it is just a symptom of your psychosis to help you deal with the disbelief that you must feel in the knowledge that you are constantly wrong. Seeing a member of the Eve community in such pain and anguish certainly is obviously a cry for help and all I can offer to you are these words of wisdom from a great teacher... Voschkovia Melinkinov "Knowing is knowing, arguing is not. Without truth, what to argue? With truth, no need to argue. Thus, one who argues does not know, one who knows, does not argue."
Kher'Aleer Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.19 21:43:00 - [63] 1. To the OP: Great work there mate and many grazt for the freighterkill. 2. To Karlemgne: You get 10/10 points for forumwarrior skill, 5 bonus points for annoyment factor and plenty more for Thread Derailment. Still I think you have too much sparetime on your hands.
Fuhshizzle	Posted - 2007.05.19 22:37:00 - [64] Karlemgne, is why I wish there was an ignore option in the forums. sheesh, get over it already!
Miranda Starborn Gallente Beehive Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.20 03:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Karlemgne this would also explain nobody bothered to accept your convo and eve-mail. It certainly explains why your alt's corp application would be rejected. I am curiouse about an explaination in your model of the behaviour of this corp after a wardec and losing a freigter as well. Originally by: Karlemgne I believe my explination is at least as reasonable as yours. So maybe you should think before popping off about "never, ever" being wrong about people. Many explanation can be logical sound and consistent, yes true. You have a point there. But are all explanations belivable?
Krumpit	Posted - 2007.05.20 03:38:00 - [66] Karlemagne, if you are such a logician, why don't you consider the converse of your statements? And perhaps apply consistent standards of proof? Then you might try to evaluate voogru's statement "I have never been wrong about a farmer." What evidence would it take to convince you of the converse of your statements? This putative corp you are proposing, is characterised thus: "They might just not speak English" AND "they might just not respond to convos" AND "they might just be an alt corp (of 50 people)" AND "they might just not care that a 3 man alt-corp destroyed 4bn ISK of thier stuff" AND "they might all have stupid names" AND "their members might really enjoy mining 23/7" AND "they have links with known macros" AND "they have been observed for weeks by an expert in spotting farmers", and so on and so on. And yet somehow, they still get the benefit of the doubt? All of those conditions have to pertain in order for your argument to stand. Heard of reductio ad absurdam? Here's your version - "Unless you go to Asia and witness a sweatshop mining operation in action, they are innocent." Even CCP doesn't employ such criteria to ban, why do you? I'll give you a test - why don't you put some suspect farmers in your address book for 4 years, like voogru has done, and check how often they log on after CCP does a big farmer purge. Don't get me wrong, - I love a devil's advocate as much as the next man, but sometimes you just have to call the bluff.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.20 12:15:00 - [67] The member count of "bob usb Corp" has dropped to 46, from 53, so they are reacting to my activities. The freighter pilot has left the corp, so im assuming he will now hide in npc corp to transfer stuff in freighters, but chances are their freighters will be worth suicide ganking. I invite players to have some fun with them (Pilot name is "sdjh dk")
Lynal Gallente Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.05.20 13:53:00 - [68] Originally by: voogruThey aint macros. They are sweatshop workers, they are farming ISK for the purpose of selling it for RL cash. I have never, ever, been wrong against a group of farmers or players that I suspect are farming to make RL cash. I think it's pretty blatant when you blow up billions of ISK of their stuff and they don't say a word to you, that these are not ordinary players. Players whine, farmers usually keep their mouths shut mainly because they can't speak english. Just look at their corporation, it's the default player name with "Corp" added to it, as well as no corporation description, and 53 members now. On top of that they are not in any recruiting channels and they do not accept convos to recruit. So they are only recruiting their own kind. And all of the members have gibberish names.[/quote meh don't be so sure of that... personally i usually won't say a word after i get shot down. if it was a close fight, or something particularly impressive (1v1 that absolutly and completely decimated me before i could say WTF) i might tell em good fight... but thats kinda rare nowadays in this era of blobs and camps. no point in whining, its not like that piwat is gonna give me back my ship and let me take everything that was in my hold right? course ransoms are another thing... pirates i know i can trust to not go back on the ransom get a fast reply... pirates i think are just gonna pod me anyways don't even get the time of day.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:41:00 - [69] Originally by: Sian Tairnesh On the other hand: Why should farmers be in a player corp? Standings. Some alliances openly welcome farmer corps since they bring them a good deal of income by refining loot in their stations. For example, a while ago we encountered a 15-20 raven convoy which had the bright idea to travel through our territory from empire. All with "interesting" names. They were from the T'ang corp from Knights Of the Southerncross. Only half of them made it through.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:43:00 - [70] those ravens are what keep empire economies going strong, tang were ex beatljce members i blieeve who also turned up in xelas ( yeah KOS and others enemies) actually the alliances that harbour all of these farmers will find them a security risk actually because they are based in certain countries they are real sweatshops and they might be sitting in a room with one lot in bob or xeals another in FIX a few in RA a few in goon a few in d2 ( theroretical here) not saying that most of the above harbour em but u get the idea.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.20 15:07:00 - [71] Quote: And every time I have determined the likelihood of a player or a group of being farmers, I eventually found out, I was right. Therefore, I have yet to be wrong. This song and dance is getting old. How do you know you have never been wrong? Other than citing some circular evidence that they must have been isk farmers, because they are isk farmers? You've never, ever, answered this question, the same one I've been asking since my second post on this thread. One more time, for postarity, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE RIGHT? Did CCP come and tell you? Did the people admit it in a convo? Did you go visit them in Asia? How? Again, so far, you've told me you know you are right, because you are always right, then you told me that you were right because they are isk farmers, and as such behaved like isk farmers... etc. Needless to say, none of your previous answers have been anywhere close enough to support your claims of being certain that you've always been right. Quote: If they were really an alliance alt corporation, then why have they not defended their alts? Are they just going to sit back while I blow them to smithereens? You are a three man corp who blew up one of their ships. It doesn't surprise me at all that a 0.0 alliance has yet to respond with overwhelming force. How could they if their mains are 90+ jumps into 0.0? And then, I could be wrong, and you could be right. I at least do not claim infalability (I mean how could you take yourself seriously if you did?) Quote: It's not like it's very hard to come attack me. I'm just 1 guy with a bunch of alts. Hmm... you sound like an isk farmer. [quoteThe CEO has been on several times, the player that rejected my application, was also online. No convo. Yeah because if I were right, such an alt corp would convo you back and say, "hi we are rejecting your application because we are actually a front for X alliances empire activities." Quote: If I war dec'ed a corporation that was your alts, and then I do serveral billion ISK in damages, you would ignore me and not fight back? I'm not sure. Personally, I couldn't fight you back because I'm outlawed. There'd be nothing I could do. Quote: Well then, I guess you would be a good target to war dec! Maybe you should go ahead and do that. Quote: They are supporting cheaters. There are games that they can go farm and RMT is legal in them if they want to support their families. I have no problem with sweatshop farming, if RMT was allowed in EVE I wouldnt touch them (instead id be making tons of money). The way I see it, at least they arent blowing each other up or being suicide bombers in cafes. But it's not, and they are ruining the game and there is nothing worse than undocking and seeing: Shinanigans! This isn't here nor there, but people who are working in sweat shops don't get to pick the games they "work" on. In fact, these people are getting paid barely enough to survive. You can say, "go to a game its allowed" until you are blue in the face, the fact is if these people only worked on "games they are allowed" to farm in, 95% of them would be without a job, because, newsflash, supply in those games would far out-pace demand, their farmed virtual goods would become worthless, and they'd all lose their ***ty jobs. And if you honest to god truly think buying isk/selling isk is ruining eve, why don't you get on CCP for allowing GTC sales for isk? Because in all honesty, MMO companies don't care that people buy isk, so much as they care that they aren't getting a cut of money exchanged for virtual goods in their games. However, none of that little editorial has anything to do with why I posted here. I post here because you quite pompusly declared that you know, beyond a doubt, who farms isk and who doesn't, and that you are "never, ever" wrong about it. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.*
Krumpit	Posted - 2007.05.20 16:59:00 - [72] Originally by: Karlemgne One more time, for postarity, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE RIGHT? Did CCP come and tell you? Did the people admit it in a convo? Did you go visit them in Asia? How? -Karl This is exactly why your arguments are so absurd, the standard of proof you demand from voogru is not the same you demand of yourself, nor even the standard of proof CCP use when they ban farmers. And for your information, farmers DO occassionally admit to working in a sweatshop in convos. You can't be expected to know this of course, because you have no idea of what you are talking about.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.20 18:42:00 - [73] Originally by: Karlemgne blah blah blah yap yap I am not saying I can never be wrong, I am saying I have yet to be wrong. I am not perfect in anyway, but when it comes to farmers I have a spotless record, at least so far. Originally by: Karlemgne Because in all honesty, MMO companies don't care that people buy isk, so much as they care that they aren't getting a cut of money exchanged for virtual goods in their games. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. CCP does care. $$$ for GTC for ISK was an unintended side-effect. What CCP wanted was players to be able to pay for their subs with ISK, but players are ABUSING it as a method to buy ISK. I'm not going to respond to any more of your comments.
Miranda Starborn Gallente Beehive Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.20 21:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Karlemgne I post here because you quite pompusly declared that you know, beyond a doubt, who farms isk and who doesn't, and that you are "never, ever" wrong about it. I claim that is a Strawman. Your turn.
Miranda Starborn Gallente Beehive Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.20 21:42:00 - [75] Originally by: Karlemgne HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE RIGHT? I claim I never been wrong in observing that other humans are consciousness. Can I prove it? No, I can not. Can I be proved wrong? Yes, I can. But still I know I am right!!! Nothing else makes sence.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.21 04:00:00 - [76] The thing that everyone is missing here is this: who cares if they're farming ISK or not? It's GOOD to kill everyone you can in Eve. You don't need a reason for doing it. Lol. Because I said so...
Ket Halpak ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.21 05:29:00 - [77] Quote: One more time, for postarity, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE RIGHT? Did CCP come and tell you? Did the people admit it in a convo? Did you go visit them in Asia? How? How do you know they are not? Did they send you photos? Records of their RL employment? Honestly, than standards of proof that you are asking for are absurd. As has been said time and again, CCP require less proof than what you are asking for. Look at the factors that have added up to his conclusion that they are isk farmers. Each point makes it seem more and more unlikely that they are. While you claim circular logic lets that he is saying 'they are isk farmers because they act like isk farmers' well, how about 'they fit the profile of an isk farmer'? An Isk farmer can be profiled by the evidence provided by voogru, THAT is how he knows. The evidence provided can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are ISK farmers. You seem to have taken this personaly, why is that? _ Check out my blog at RantingsofaCarebear.blogspot.com Privateers: Those who don't adapt become victims of harsh irony
Zardenim	Posted - 2007.05.21 05:30:00 - [78] To the OP: gj, bringing balance to the economy in eve is good, m'kay? To Karl: Please, just shut the hell up for once. He has legit points, and you're nitpicking and attacking him from an angle that is entirely irrelevant to the message of his post. I've read these forums quite a bit over the past few months while my account was inactive, and to be quite frank, every time you hijack a thread it all goes downhill from there.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.05.21 05:57:00 - [79] very suprising. I have to to see chinese farmbots in a player corp.
Seth Ruin Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.21 07:30:00 - [80] Originally by: Zardenim To Karl: . . . every time you hijack a thread it all goes downhill from there. New version of Godwin's Law?
Anatis	Posted - 2007.05.21 07:50:00 - [81] voogru you're doing a great job. I ran into a bob usb member yesterday and the name was "love you". While it wasn't a great name atleast it's not "hsildhigu". Can you let us know where these guys mainly operate?
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.21 08:30:00 - [82] Edited by: voogru on 21/05/2007 08:28:57 Originally by: Anatis voogru you're doing a great job. I ran into a bob usb member yesterday and the name was "love you". While it wasn't a great name atleast it's not "hsildhigu". Can you let us know where these guys mainly operate? Some farmers do have names that seem generic and just two words put together, some of them even get very complex and use a name such as "BoyName GirlName/GirlName BoyName", but these kind are rare. Ie, "John Jessica"/"Sandy Tony" to try and make them look legitimate. Typical farmer names are all lowercase too, not always, but a majority of the time. As far as "bob usb Corp" whereabouts, it appears that a majority of them are doing drone regions. Quote: 2007.05.18 13:39 The scumsucker is located in the 6U-1RX system, J0-59Y constellation of the VU-WU2 region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.18 18:40 The scumsucker is located in the 5LAJ-8 system, Z6T6-B constellation of the VU-WU2 region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.19 13:16 The scumsucker is located in the DYPL-6 system, PG-RWX constellation of the 7-KXBJ region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.19 13:44 The sleazebag is currently in the A-YB15 system, 2O-VY7 constellation of the 87-1CW region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.19 14:06 The sleazebag is currently in the R-AG7W system, O5PO-O constellation of the S-I6VU region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.19 14:32 The scumsucker is located in the SH-YZY system, 7UNX-J constellation of the LQ-0QN region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.19 15:34 The scumsucker is located in the N06Z-Q system, PGPJ-8 constellation of the 7-KXBJ region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.19 16:05 The sleazebag is currently in the 5LAJ-8 system, Z6T6-B constellation of the VU-WU2 region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. Quote: 2007.05.19 16:42 The scumsucker is located in the 8OYE-Z system, MRC-29 constellation of the Cache region. With regards, Ardorele Minaeghe. The only one I caught in empire was their freighter, and a few that came to try and clean up the mess. They had some npc corp folks too that USED to be in "bob usb Corp" but quit at one point.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.21 09:37:00 - [83] I'm going to suggest everyone takes a step back and try to avoid a frickin anurism from this thread. Karl. I think you need to sit down and have a nice cup of hot cocoa and put ur feet up. I think you're getting a little too involved in this. i agree with what you're saying about presumptions and it is annoying but it's really not that bigger deal. DE
Cruthensis	Posted - 2007.05.21 09:53:00 - [84] (Slightly off topic? sorry) My first PVP kill (read: easy PVP kill) came last night thanks to a kind player's timely help... Found multi farmers of the obviously-named kind in Yulai - all in noob corp for 4-6 months, no bio. A joyless way to play I think we could all agree. Sweatshop ftl. Anyway, spent 10 minutes flipping their cans and watching their hauler get confused. Finally got agro from the hauler as he took from my can, engaged and promptly got concordokkened. After a lot of WTFing in macro-intel, folks explained that I was indeed right and had been killed (probably) by an overview bug. Suffice to say I was livid, but a very kind soul (who has posted on this thread ) donated more than cost of my Myrm to help me back on my feet. Half an hour later - one dead hauler. I couldn't work whether he had thought the concord reaction was business as usual. Well, 2str scram, blasters, ogres, NOS and web made short work of an Iteron V with local hull exp. Yay! Many thanks to the generous player who i won't embarrass by naming (unless he wants me to). An hour later, Tar had one less farmer hauler too. I'm beginning to love this game.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.05.21 10:51:00 - [85] That's a lot of Zyd
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.21 15:50:00 - [86] Edited by: Karlemgne on 21/05/2007 15:50:29 Originally by: Krumpit Originally by: Karlemgne One more time, for postarity, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE RIGHT? Did CCP come and tell you? Did the people admit it in a convo? Did you go visit them in Asia? How? -Karl This is exactly why your arguments are so absurd, the standard of proof you demand from voogru is not the same you demand of yourself, nor even the standard of proof CCP use when they ban farmers. And for your information, farmers DO occassionally admit to working in a sweatshop in convos. You can't be expected to know this of course, because you have no idea of what you are talking about. In most cases I agree with you. In fact, if the OP had come here and said, like most people would, that he suspected these guys were isk farmers, I wouldn't have complained at all. The issue for me, is when questioned about why he thought they were farmers, he said that he could identify who was and wasn't an isk farmer, and that he was "never, ever wrong." This level of pompusness is certainlly something I'd hope someone would call me on. A modicum of humility, and recognition that you could be wrong goes a long way. Voogru further complicates the issue by insisting his circular argument, which wouldn't ever work in any situation, somehow proves his point. Essentially he is doing the following: "John is the Murder" "How do you know John is the murder?" "Because he's got the Murder's gloves." "How do you know those are the murders gloves?" "Because John is the murder, and those are his gloves." This type of circular reasoning falls on its face, always. If he'd set up some sort of inductive argument, with supporting evidence that indicated it was likely these guys were isk farmers, that'd be one thing. He didn't do that though, he said that they were 100% absolutely isk farmers, and he knows because he's always right. Then gave not what amounted to a strong, or even weak inductive argument to support himself, he begged the question, relying on the above quoted fallacy. I'm sorry, but, again, that rubs me the wrong way, and I will always, always, always try to call people on stuff like that when I see it. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.21 16:00:00 - [87] Originally by: DarkElf I'm going to suggest everyone takes a step back and try to avoid a frickin anurism from this thread. Karl. I think you need to sit down and have a nice cup of hot cocoa and put ur feet up. I think you're getting a little too involved in this. i agree with what you're saying about presumptions and it is annoying but it's really not that bigger deal. DE Maybe you're correct. However, the OPs continued insistence that he's always right, without any support at all, irritates the hell out of me. Had he said, like he did for one post before taking it back, that it was likely these guys were farmers and that he did not know, 100% who was an isk farmer, without fail, I would have been content. His continued insistence that he's never been wrong, while not using any data, or sound reasoning to back it up, is why I continued laying into him about this whole issue. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Sorbet Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.05.21 16:10:00 - [88] Originally by: FT Diomedes I hate to think how many children are starving because of this self-righteous crusade you are on... I hate to think children are being abused in such perverse ways for the gains of someone else (and it's a sad reality). To the OP: Nicely done, speaking purely from a tactical perspective within the confines of the game client.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.21 16:33:00 - [89] Originally by: Karlemgne Voogru further complicates the issue by insisting his circular argument, which wouldn't ever work in any situation, somehow proves his point. Essentially he is doing the following: "John is the Murder" "How do you know John is the murder?" "Because he's got the Murder's gloves." "How do you know those are the murders gloves?" "Because John is the murder, and those are his gloves." In this case, the situtation is more like this: "John is the Murder" "How do you know John is the murder?" "Because he's got the Murder's gloves, has blood on his hands, can't tell me where he was last night when the murder happened and he was the ex-boyfriend of the victim, the victim broke up with him 2 weeks earlier. And John has a mile long record of domestic abuse with the victim" "..." Sure, he might not be the murderer. But the probability is pretty high. Same with the farmers, Yes, I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it.
Miranda Starborn Gallente Beehive Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.22 12:40:00 - [90] Originally by: Karlemgne "John is the Murder" "How do you know John is the murder?" "Because he's got the Murder's gloves." "How do you know those are the murders gloves?" "Because John is the murder, and those are his gloves." That is another Strawman. You constructs a case of circular proff. However voorgu has been using an implication to "proff" his case. IF funny name AND not responds AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... AND ... THEN Farmer That is NOT a tatology. And hence your case is a Strawman.
Miranda Starborn Gallente Beehive Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.22 12:45:00 - [91] Edited by: Miranda Starborn on 22/05/2007 12:57:27 Originally by: Karlemgne His continued insistence that he's never been wrong That is a false statement. Originally by: Karlemgne while not using any data That is a false statement. Originally by: Karlemgne or sound reasoning to back it up That is a false statement.
Cruthensis	Posted - 2007.05.22 13:51:00 - [92] Originally by: voogru Edited by: voogru on 21/05/2007 17:38:29 Can I interest you in some 80 Million ISK Magic Missiles? Maybe I can interest an entire corporation in my several hundred magic missiles Can I interest you in a Magic Ibis? How about a Carbon Freighter? It looks like I got a new target corporation. Wow! Research ftw. I'm so new(b) I didn't even realise you could do that. Gonna waste me some time looking at my local miner haulers - see where their isk might be headed.
Dahin Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 19:28:00 - [93] hey, how about trying to sneak in their corp the next time they hop corps? With those names, I bet they have a hard time telling one from the other ;)
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.22 19:49:00 - [94] Originally by: Dahin hey, how about trying to sneak in their corp the next time they hop corps? With those names, I bet they have a hard time telling one from the other ;) This works, even when not using a fibberish name. Look at my alt, "Flynn Walker" corporation history. Some farmer corps accepted him out of the blue without even talking to him, once I was in I went to town on them.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.22 20:50:00 - [95] Originally by: Miranda Starborn Edited by: Miranda Starborn on 22/05/2007 12:57:27 Originally by: Karlemgne His continued insistence that he's never been wrong That is a false statement. Originally by: Karlemgne while not using any data That is a false statement. Originally by: Karlemgne or sound reasoning to back it up That is a false statement. Pray tell, how else does one interpret "I've never, ever been wrong," if not to mean, I've never been wrong. Second, the first argument he gave to me was something along the lines of: Me: "How do you know they are isk farmers?" Voogru (paraphrased:) "I've never been wrong in the past" Me: "How do you know you've never been wrong in the past" Voogru: "Silly, I've never been wrong!" Clearly begging the question. He then came up with this clever ditty: If isk farmers > they stop using their accounts ^ ~they stop using their accounts (sic.) ~they stop using their accounts Therefore: They're isk farmers I think we can both agree that this is totally and completely invalid, above and beyond the ridiculousness of the premises. As to the suggestion that he did offer data, that statement was tied to the assumption that he at no point attempted an inductive argument. He did offer some facts in an attempt to prove that it was certain that these people were isk farmers. Nothing he posted comes anywhere close to being a necessary and sufficent condition for isk farming. Therefore, I ammend what I said, he offered no "data" that came anywhere near being a necessary and sufficent condition for his claim, namely that the corp involved here is beyond doubt an isk farming corp. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.22 21:53:00 - [96] And for the record, this has now turned into a conversation between those with a philosophy/mathematical logic background, rendering it completely pointless to everyone else. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.22 22:20:00 - [97] Originally by: Karlemgne Me: "How do you know they are isk farmers?" Voogru (paraphrased:) "I've never been wrong in the past" Me: "How do you know you've never been wrong in the past" Voogru: "Silly, I've never been wrong!" As to the suggestion that he did offer data, that statement was tied to the assumption that he at no point attempted an inductive argument. He did offer some facts in an attempt to prove that it was certain that these people were isk farmers. Nothing he posted comes anywhere close to being a necessary and sufficent condition for isk farming. Therefore, I ammend what I said, he offered no "data" that came anywhere near being a necessary and sufficent condition for his claim, namely that the corp involved here is beyond doubt an isk farming corp. -Karlemgne Originally by: voogru You want to see what I am talking about? Here you go: Can I interest you in some 80 Million ISK Magic Missiles? Maybe I can interest an entire corporation in my several hundred magic missiles Can I interest you in a Magic Ibis? How about a Carbon Freighter? It looks like I got a new target corporation. Yeah, they might not be ISK sellers or ISK Farmers. Look at the last one, compare it with "bob usb Corp" and look for the similarities. Not all farmers use contracts, but this gives you an idea of what TO look for. I love how you completely dodged this entire post. Now, tell me these are not farmers and are legitimate players. So everyone else will know you have no idea what you are talking about. Have a nice day.
Icome4u IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.05.23 02:36:00 - [98] Edited by: Icome4u on 23/05/2007 02:37:14 Karlemgne stfu m8... you are just being annoying now. If you have a problem with what he is doing, war dec him. END OF THE ******* STORY! OP keep podding those isk sellers. Less of them = less lag
Silent Killa God's of Eve	Posted - 2007.05.23 04:32:00 - [99] Awsome work
Cruthensis	Posted - 2007.05.23 08:14:00 - [100] Originally by: Karlemgne Therefore, I ammend what I said, he offered no "data" that came anywhere near being a necessary and sufficent condition for his claim, namely that the corp involved here is beyond doubt an isk farming corp. He has a point here. Has anyone considered that maybe it was a magic Ibis? Well? Did ya? Is it really fair that we jump to conclusions from this data. You only showed screenshots with about 400 allegedly dodgy contracts and who's to say what they were using them for. Maybe they were just using them to move enormous amounts of money from one character to another without using direct ISK transfer - and what could possibly be suspect about that?! So I'm with Karl 100%. These guys look like bone-fide, straight-up, playing for the love of the game, players. Personally, I'm thinking of changing my name to gkkjhdf. It's actually quite catchy when you say it fast, a lot, and the absence of vowels is very ecomomic.
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.05.23 11:58:00 - [101] The reason they made a player corp is because it's the only way they could 'rent' space from an Alliance in 0.0.
Haclya	Posted - 2007.05.23 16:09:00 - [102] keep doing the good work im curenly stealing ore from farmes good luck whit your hunt.
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.23 16:28:00 - [103] Net time flip the canisters, put all the loot that you cannot pick up into another one of your jet cans. Now when the corp comes in the hauler alts that are not in the corp you can kill them as they pick up the loot since they will get flagged. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Investigador Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.23 17:10:00 - [104] Karlemgne, this game has all its interface on english. It's imposible to play without knowing a minimum of english. (altough i think there is a german version) They are capable to connect to the internet, navigate to this web, download the program, follow the installation instructions, select a bloodline, carreer, specialization, etc. Do no tell that, after managing to do all the above, they are still unable to find not even an asian sounding name to their char or their corp, or making a hate mail on broken english.
AegriSomnia Caldari Aegis Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.23 18:50:00 - [105] Originally by: Christopher Dalran Net time flip the canisters, put all the loot that you cannot pick up into another one of your jet cans. Now when the corp comes in the hauler alts that are not in the corp you can kill them as they pick up the loot since they will get flagged. Another point to that is they may not even mess with your jetcan at all. They are probably lookin for a certain named can, and yours aint it Voogru, if you are still keeping tabs on this thread, good on ya. Its that type of industriousness that makes EVE the best. I would fly with you anytime to take down farmers/macros/carebears. And Thank You very much for sharing your strategies. I am going to put it to use ASAP, as I hang in high sec a lot (its where my missions are! WHAT?) . I personally think you have it pegged. Your "12-step Plan to Identify Farmers" is brilliant. Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr Ordo Ministorum	Posted - 2007.05.23 18:54:00 - [106] To OP - Class work there...was talking to you in EVE about this a few days ago, again well done. To Karl - EVE is a non-consentual PVP game...live with it, it makes no dofference who these guys where, if they were 'ordinary' players, well they just got hit with a big loss; if they were farmers, they got justice. One Empire, One People, One Emperor, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
Imodesky Kafelnikov	Posted - 2007.05.31 14:37:00 - [107] Why blow up isk farmers? I will let you all in on a little known isk making secret. You can sell your own "protection" in eve. Dont blow up the isk farmers! Forum a corp with them and set the tax to 20% then just let the isk roll in. All the while "protecting" them, from pvpers. I will tell you Xelas had a few of these.... but then again so did I. ***** that whip, and have your own sweat shop!
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.31 14:51:00 - [108] Originally by: Imodesky Kafelnikov Why blow up isk farmers? I will let you all in on a little known isk making secret. You can sell your own "protection" in eve. Dont blow up the isk farmers! Forum a corp with them and set the tax to 20% then just let the isk roll in. All the while "protecting" them, from pvpers. I will tell you Xelas had a few of these.... but then again so did I. ***** that whip, and have your own sweat shop! shhhhhhhhhhh DE
darth solo Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.31 15:28:00 - [109] voogru dont try and defend urself here, EVE is full of ppl who just want to argue. it looked like a legit kill of isk farmers to me and if it was not?, who cares, then it was just a legit good kill. either way ur hip is heavier with isk. d solo. celes apoc new kilboard
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.31 16:00:00 - [110] Edited by: voogru on 31/05/2007 15:59:19 Originally by: Imodesky Kafelnikov Why blow up isk farmers? I will let you all in on a little known isk making secret. You can sell your own "protection" in eve. Dont blow up the isk farmers! Forum a corp with them and set the tax to 20% then just let the isk roll in. All the while "protecting" them, from pvpers. I will tell you Xelas had a few of these.... but then again so did I. *** that whip, and have your own sweat shop! Already thought of this, doesn't work. Besides I'd make the tax 50%-95% or so, but they only form corporations with their own kind. Originally by:** darth solo voogru dont try and defend urself here, EVE is full of ppl who just want to argue. it looked like a legit kill of isk farmers to me and if it was not?, who cares, then it was just a legit good kill. either way ur hip is heavier with isk. d solo. I'm not really trying to defend my actions, but I am trying to bring attention to people who are a threat to EVE (look at EVE-China) and trying to get other people to jump onto the bandwagon. Hunt ISK farmers right and you could potentially profit. Farmers are actually responsible for a lot of my wealth, but I still want them all banned, since that aint going to happen, next best thing is to ruin as many of their operations as possible, ive been fairly successfull as a one man fleet pretty much
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.31 17:48:00 - [111] Originally by: voogru Latest victim Are you flying an arazu with no guns or is it just me? DE
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.31 18:33:00 - [112] Edited by: voogru on 31/05/2007 18:37:41 Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: voogru Latest victim Are you flying an arazu with no guns or is it just me? DE What am I going to do with an Arazu and 2x 250mm railguns that do piddly squat damage at 35km+? The character flying this is super specialized Drones/EW/Sensor Dampening/Cloaky Cloaky and can't even use T2 railguns. I do have 250mm Railguns in the cargohold but I didn't see how fitting them would make a difference for this case. Now when I know im hunting haulers/covetors, I do fit the 250mm's. And I must tell you, I have some oddball setups (ie, shield tanking gallente ships), mainly because of the basilisk support, and I have another very BAD DPS machariel thats intended for bumping farmers outside of docking range of stations. But, I have no losses from farmers attacking me, so what I'm doing must work.
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Vendetta Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.31 20:38:00 - [113] Originally by: voogru This little moron thought it was clever to keep ditching & rejoining the corp (kiss546) to avoid fights, I caught him with his pants down in a mission. He dropped 2x True Sansha EANMS (50-60M a piece). His buddies that were doing the mission with him could only sit and watch, had they have been ordinary players all in the same corporation, he might have got away. (Thats why I fit so many sensor dampeners, I expected more of them). Hey, these are the guys I was robbing blind in Giserles. Or at least they were the guys who came in to lay the smack upon me most mightily after stealing from their guys in noobcorp for a while. I wonder how big their organization is.. Hmm..curiouser and curiouser. -- A legitimate businessman interested in unilateral re-appropriation of goods and salvage.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.05.31 21:56:00 - [114] Edited by: voogru on 31/05/2007 21:58:05 Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Originally by: voogru This little moron thought it was clever to keep ditching & rejoining the corp (kiss546) to avoid fights, I caught him with his pants down in a mission. He dropped 2x True Sansha EANMS (50-60M a piece). His buddies that were doing the mission with him could only sit and watch, had they have been ordinary players all in the same corporation, he might have got away. (Thats why I fit so many sensor dampeners, I expected more of them). Hey, these are the guys I was robbing blind in Giserles. Or at least they were the guys who came in to lay the smack upon me most mightily after stealing from their guys in noobcorp for a while. I wonder how big their organization is.. Hmm..curiouser and curiouser. Yeah, I had a 2 hour stalemate with Quen Tonn, it was the first time a farmer ever got away from me, he was in NPC corp at the time, but he had support transfering cap to his nos domi (true forces), which was in kiss546 corp. How nice of him to join kiss546 corp after I war decced it. Manage to find him in a shuttle once, he saw me and warped to a planet and logged off. I sat at the planet waited for him to log back on and podded him. Then he quit corp, aww... No more ganking him. But wait... he rejoined the same day so I came back the next day, find him in a mission Dominix, and me and a few friends podded him again for good measure. I hope he forgot to update his clone. Farmers don't get away from me and get away with it. Oh, and before I forget, my alt logistic character that was responsible for making the first fight with Quen Tonn a 2 hour stalemate rather than a 10 second gank (where I would have got pwned), was let into "kiss546" corp, where he flew around and killed some of the members. It was nice to be able to use the map to track corp members. Their corp chat was pretty quiet, only calling out to me in Chinese when one of them died.
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Vendetta Incorporated	Posted - 2007.06.01 03:24:00 - [115] Originally by: voogru These are a oddball bunch, they will be in covetors, you steal their ore, they go get nos domis, if your still there, they attack you. Actually, my bunch were mostly only fit for mining except for one that was flying a scorpion. Let me see..there was cjamn who was hauling. Wuuejcke who pilots a scorpion. Kjaiuw who was flying a nos domi. Beyonha in a Domi with T2 drones. Quen Tonn in another domi. Um.. oh yes and Qsccard in a Mega that was at least partially gank fit. Originally by: voogru Unfortanatly, he was a real prick and kept docking his drones every time they took shield damage, only way for me to kill them was to dock my drones, wait for him to undock them, undock my drones and tell all of my drones to attack a single drone. I was able to kill 1 drone every... 10 minutes. I really wish I would have fit a blaster and this might have been a different fight. I never expected them to be this smart Depending on the time of day they are either really smart or really dumb. I guess it depends on who is driving at that point. I hope some of this information is useful to you, and good luck in your endeavors. If you're ever up through placid or verge vendor way drop me a line. -- A legitimate businessman interested in unilateral re-appropriation of goods and salvage.
Rooker Lysian Enterprises United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.06.01 04:58:00 - [116] I think the more important question here is this - How does an obvious Isk Farmer/Seller corp get access to the 0.0 drone regions? I've lived in 0.0. If you didn't have the right standings and were in our territory, a whole swarm of bloodthirsty PvPers hungry for a killmail descended on your head (myself included). How does a person with a name that practically SCREAMS "Hi, I'm a macro selling ISK to losers who can't hack it in EVE" fly a freighter in and out of this 0.0 region? I've been on freighter ops in a war zone. It is tense, it is dangerous and there is a very good chance the freighter is going to get ganked no matter how big a blob is escorting it. Actually, better question - Who has 'blue' standings to this corp, which allows them to travel in and out of that region? I'd be very interested to know the answer to that. -- SAVE EANM FROM THE NERFBAT!
Flynn Walker Caldari People's Front Of Judea	Posted - 2007.06.02 04:19:00 - [117] Well, at least I wont be getting jammed by farmers anymore. Lets see them farmers jam this.
Kianwan Caldari The Patriot Society	Posted - 2007.06.02 10:06:00 - [118] Unfortunately with the way jamming works you might get jammed on first try still
Flynn Walker Caldari People's Front Of Judea	Posted - 2007.06.02 14:32:00 - [119] Originally by: Kianwan Unfortunately with the way jamming works you might get jammed on first try still there using 2x multispec 2's. this should reduce the chance enough to kill them.
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:53:00 - [120] nice --------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!!
Sunny Mooninite Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:30:00 - [121] Originally by: voogru Latest victim Hey we've got some punks hanging out in front of the Foot Locker, could you chase them out of the Mall please? Kthxbye. --- I approve this messiah Haha, you can't unread my post!
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:57:00 - [122] Edited by: Karlemgne on 08/06/2007 18:56:36 Originally by: Cruthensis Edited by: Cruthensis on 23/05/2007 13:05:38 Originally by: Karlemgne Therefore, I ammend what I said, he offered no "data" that came anywhere near being a necessary and sufficent condition for his claim, namely that the corp involved here is beyond doubt an isk farming corp. He has a point here. Has anyone considered that maybe it was a magic Ibis? Well? Did ya? Is it really fair that we jump to conclusions from this data. You only showed screenshots with about 400 allegedly dodgy contracts and who's to say what they were using them for. Maybe they were just using them to move enormous amounts of money from one character to another without using direct ISK transfer - and what could possibly be suspect about that?! So I'm with Karl 100%. These guys look like bone-fide, straight-up, playing for the love of the game, players. Personally, I'm thinking of changing my name to gkkjhdf. It's actually quite catchy when you say it fast, a lot, and the absence of vowels is very economic. The burden is on the original poster, not to necro this thread, to prove that these people are isk farmers. If he had originally come here, as I've said 50 times (hyperbole,) and said "I'm pretty sure these guys are gold farmers," that would have been one thing. However, he came here, became self-righteous and declared that he knew beyond any doubt that these guys were gold farmers, and that he is "never, ever" wrong. That is a pretty fracking bold statement. One that he, of course, can't support. So, in the final analysis, sure it is possible that he is right and these guys farm isk. Hell it could be a strong posibility that these guys farm isk. However strong probability does not equal certainty, and if you are going to behave like a self-righteous zealot, you'd better be fracking certain that people are doing what you are accusing them of. That is all. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Jan Ars	Posted - 2007.06.08 20:18:00 - [123] Edited by: Jan Ars on 08/06/2007 20:17:29 Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 08/06/2007 18:56:36 The burden is on the original poster, not to necro this thread, to prove that these people are isk farmers. If he had originally come here, as I've said 50 times (hyperbole,) and said "I'm pretty sure these guys are gold farmers," that would have been one thing. However, he came here, became self-righteous and declared that he knew beyond any doubt that these guys were gold farmers, and that he is "never, ever" wrong. That is a pretty fracking bold statement. One that he, of course, can't support. So, in the final analysis, sure it is possible that he is right and these guys farm isk. Hell it could be a strong posibility that these guys farm isk. However strong probability does not equal certainty, and if you are going to behave like a self-righteous zealot, you'd better be fracking certain that people are doing what you are accusing them of. That is all. -Karl I really think you need to let this go. =/
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.09 00:12:00 - [124] Originally by: Jan Ars I really think you need to let this go. =/ But I'm enjoying this. I love seeing people try to defend farmers. Everybody universially hates them except for a few minority.
Ket Halpak Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.09 02:30:00 - [125] Voogru, balancing the eve economy, 1 isk farmer at a time. Keep up the good work! _ Check out my blog at RantingsofaCarebear.blogspot.com Privateers: Those who don't adapt become victims of harsh irony
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr Ordo Ministorum	Posted - 2007.06.10 07:04:00 - [126] Originally by: Ket Halpak Voogru, balancing the eve economy, 1 isk farmer at a time. Keep up the good work! Win. One Empire, One People, One Emperor, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
Rightfull Slave	Posted - 2007.06.10 13:25:00 - [127] Originally by: Ket Halpak Voogru, balancing the eve economy, 1 isk farmer at a time. Keep up the good work! I think I just got a new sigi Originally by: Ket Halpak Voogru, balancing the eve economy, 1 isk farmer at a time. Keep up the good work!
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:16:00 - [128] Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 10/06/2007 17:18:05 I hate them too. Disrupting their ice farming Bad language of a farmer Killing in low sec Ship lovers click here
Corbon Hydrashock SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.06.12 12:06:00 - [129] Edited by: Corbon Hydrashock on 12/06/2007 12:09:08 Originally by: Hellspawn01 Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 10/06/2007 17:18:05 I hate them too. Hey HellSpawn, 122165? Anyway... Mr. No-Vowel comes out to fight gggjk may actually be a real player, though, as I've seen a kill mail with him on it that makes him look more like a pirate (though, here, one protecting a miner). Then, I could be mistaken about this one, too, as this player used a vowel: Covetor down
Corbon Hydrashock SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.06.13 04:16:00 - [130] Today: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0706/minertalk.JPG
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.06.13 10:36:00 - [131] Originally by: Corbon Hydrashock Today: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0706/minertalk.JPG I'm a little baffled to why your hiding the name of a farmer.
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.06.15 19:03:00 - [132] Probably worked out that daily payment deal and doesn't want anyone popping his new plaything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Faekurias Caldari Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.06.15 23:14:00 - [133] tldr
Miss Mcnasty	Posted - 2007.06.15 23:52:00 - [134] Edited by: Miss Mcnasty on 16/06/2007 00:00:40 ...edit
Miss Mcnasty	Posted - 2007.06.16 00:01:00 - [135] Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 08/06/2007 18:56:36 Originally by: Cruthensis Edited by: Cruthensis on 23/05/2007 13:05:38 Originally by: Karlemgne Therefore, I ammend what I said, he offered no "data" that came anywhere near being a necessary and sufficent condition for his claim, namely that the corp involved here is beyond doubt an isk farming corp. He has a point here. Has anyone considered that maybe it was a magic Ibis? Well? Did ya? Is it really fair that we jump to conclusions from this data. You only showed screenshots with about 400 allegedly dodgy contracts and who's to say what they were using them for. Maybe they were just using them to move enormous amounts of money from one character to another without using direct ISK transfer - and what could possibly be suspect about that?! So I'm with Karl 100%. These guys look like bone-fide, straight-up, playing for the love of the game, players. Personally, I'm thinking of changing my name to gkkjhdf. It's actually quite catchy when you say it fast, a lot, and the absence of vowels is very economic. The burden is on the original poster, not to necro this thread, to prove that these people are isk farmers. If he had originally come here, as I've said 50 times (hyperbole,) and said "I'm pretty sure these guys are gold farmers," that would have been one thing. However, he came here, became self-righteous and declared that he knew beyond any doubt that these guys were gold farmers, and that he is "never, ever" wrong. That is a pretty fracking bold statement. One that he, of course, can't support. So, in the final analysis, sure it is possible that he is right and these guys farm isk. Hell it could be a strong posibility that these guys farm isk. However strong probability does not equal certainty, and if you are going to behave like a self-righteous zealot, you'd better be fracking certain that people are doing what you are accusing them of. That is all. -Karl Whaaa whaaa whaaa... seriously . This is all I or anyone ever hears from you.. whaaa farmers are people to.. whaaa not all isk farmers are chinese... whaaa these people need to make a living whaa... Bottom line is.. we DO NOT know where the money is going to... Romainian , Chinese , American ... I can pretty much say the money is going to no good. If I wanted to fund any number of groups, farming ore and selling in game currency would be a great untracable way, to do this. Think terrorist. Think drugs. Think credit card and identitiy fraud. that's the way I think of it.... so the next time you go down to the corner to buy your next ounce think about where that money is going to. tinfoil hats available at tinfoilhats.org
Corbon Hydrashock SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.06.21 00:28:00 - [136] Anyway... Back on topic (as it is merely a game, and to some of us it just about doesn't matter who we kill) - what is the best T1 frigate that you believe, or know, can take on 5 T2 drones if a Covetor does ante up for a fight? I'm thinking that, whatever the T1 frigate, the webber and guns will have to be placed on the drones until each is taken out, while the scram remains on the Covetor - so ample capacitor is needed as well.
Lehraen Rawr	Posted - 2007.06.21 00:55:00 - [137] There's 6.7 billion people in the world. if you were so concerned with a couple of them, you'd be out with peace corps, not playing mmos. Voogru has this newb's complete respect.
Tiyuris Uriah Gallente Universal Marketing Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.21 11:30:00 - [138] Perhaps Karl is defending the farmers because he relies on them to get his ISK?

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