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Minigin Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 04:29:00 - [1] I think its time for me to get flamed again... so heres what about. I previously thought that logging out was left to macro ratters and other scum of the galaxy... however in recent times I have been witness to an amazingly large number of alliances that are supposedly "firmly rooted in pvpö logging out in large numbers when confronted by their prey. so its time to define pvp in eve atm. 14 men gank you, or you r 14 men gank 1 guy... then the enemy raises a gang to combat you... and immediately one of the sides drops to 0 in local. The term "logoffski" was coined to poke fun at Red Alliance for using this tactic. However its amusing to go back in these forums and look at those who have pointed and screamed logoffski at others... and are happily doing it now... If ccp isnÆt going to fix this... which i think they have made it abundantly clear they wont... then its time for all of us to decide if this is the way we want pvp in eve to head? Your signature <----- My awsome Sig "the true mark of a pvp alliance... log out when in trouble"
DHB FooFighter FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.22 04:51:00 - [2] quick... ctrl-q and log on the forums! -------------------------------------------------
PainBall Gallente Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.22 04:52:00 - [3] LOL u are so brave with 60+ vs 14 and blame game mechanics well done boy!!! Love conqueres all ... but not in eve
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 04:58:00 - [4] There's a fair-play method of dealing with being massively outnumbered. It's called 'tactical withdrawal' or 'running away'. If you're any kind of sport, you get clear using more legitimate means than control-q. ------ Agony Unleashed is recruiting.
Grim Faust Kinetic Vector Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:04:00 - [5] You're playing with other people, don't forget. Where there's a will there's a way and that even goes for the unscrupulous. __________________________________________________ I survived CCP eating all my sigs and all I got was a crappy colorful moderator message...
Asylum Seaker Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:06:00 - [6] With the amount of crashing my client does, I'm not too keen on any fix which involves ships being vulnerable after the pilot logs / crashes. The universe is hostile, so impersonal, devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been.
Mitch Taylor Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:25:00 - [7] thats the balance ccp has to get right... as for logging off in combat when facing overwhelming odds. terrible, dispicable, un sporting.... ive done it. the game has mechanics, if you dont use them your doing something wrong. even the norti ones. flame away trolls. Dark-Rising
Dalanoria The Aduro Protocol Ground Zeero	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:29:00 - [8] pvp already sucks in eve, this isnt even important....
hellsknights Hells Angels Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:30:00 - [9] Hey Mini long time no see..... Mini u know how it works ,the forums are full of it ''this guy logged out after jumping on our camp what a loser'' Next thing you know the guy that wrote the post jumps in on your camp and boom he logs out ,i think its ridiculous to complain about a tactic which abuses game mechanics and then use it yourself ... So some loggers should either quit complaining or quit ctrl+q Hells
Euthanasia XXX hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:39:00 - [10] So whats the alternative if you would rather not commit suicide? Bounce around Safe Spots ad nauseam until the enemy gets bored looking for you? ___________________________ This space for rent

Minigin Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Dalanoria pvp already sucks in eve, this isnt even important.... actually... pvp isnt that bad... blobing is... but small gangs atm arnt even fighting... because one side logs. how is this not a huge problem... Originally by: Asylum Seaker With the amount of crashing my client does, I'm not too keen on any fix which involves ships being vulnerable after the pilot logs / crashes. i totaly agree... there will be some legitimate crashes... however ccp has to start looking at the commands of the client somehow... im sure theres a way to find out who commanded their game to shut down and who was legitimatly d/ced. to top this all off... if you where say i dunno... jumping through a gate that a gate camp is at... and lo and behold you crash... i dont know what you where planning to do... but you where going to die whether you where actually there or not. further this is not a movment to get ccp to change it... because i dont think they will. this is an appeal to people who want to make this game better and more fun for us all... Your signature <----- My awsome Sig "the true mark of a pvp alliance... log out when in trouble"
fugazii Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Asylum Seaker With the amount of crashing my client does, I'm not too keen on any fix which involves ships being vulnerable after the pilot logs / crashes. this is exactly whats wrong with eve. if you or your computer cant handle eve/pvp, everyone else in the game shouldnt have to suffer for it. your comp crashes? tough **** go buy a new computer. you dont have money? stop playing eve for 2 weeks get a job and buy one. inadecuacies of a single person or small amount of people should not dictate how the game is run. to the op, i find it amusing that not 3-4 months ago(tops) you were one of top ranking people in an alliance that did nothing but log out anytime there was any danger. now you come here complaining about logging? karma my friend, its called karma.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Asylum Seaker With the amount of crashing my client does, I'm not too keen on any fix which involves ships being vulnerable after the pilot logs / crashes. Personally, I don't give a flying you know what about your personal problems. CCP needs to fix the logoffski problem and they need to do it soon. It is a wide spread problem affecting almost every PvPer in this game, and it needs to change, and change soon.
Minigin Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Asylum Seaker With the amount of crashing my client does, I'm not too keen on any fix which involves ships being vulnerable after the pilot logs / crashes. Personally, I don't give a flying you know what about your personal problems. CCP needs to fix the logoffski problem and they need to do it soon. It is a wide spread problem affecting almost every PvPer in this game, and it needs to change, and change soon. /signed Your signature <----- My awsome Sig "the true mark of a pvp alliance... log out when in trouble"
XxAngelxX Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:23:00 - [15] I wasn't going to dignify this with a response, but seeing as though Minigin has derailed our battle report with it, I will explain the circumstances. 14 VSQ pilots set out on a late night roam about 01:00 and it was agreed that after visiting c-fp that we would return home and log as it was about 04:00 - 06:00 in the morning for most of us ( yeah I know we need jobs ). Hydra got together a gang of 38 people and chased around the triangle of systems near c-fp where we tried to split them up so we could fight the less overwhelming odds. Our FC then dropped connection so we headed out towards a safer system to wait for him to get back. However due to some diligence that has not been shown before by Hydra, they had called Pure. in with another 26 pilots effectively sandwhiching our gang which was now down to 9 members. Not being in mobile ships, having no where else to go but safespot hopping or certain death, we decided to call it a night instead of waiting 2 hours and making the 9 jumps back to venal. This is what I would call "OK" logging off. When a game stops being fun, you stop playing, especially when you achieve nothing. It would not have been a good fight, it wouldn't have been fun for hydra but to do nothing more than maybe sooth their bruised egos after sundays events. On another note, one thing I dont perceive as being "OK" logging is jumping 9 BS into a 13 man HAC/CS/Inty gang and ALL logging off because of a mistake. This happened 3 weeks ago, and guess which alliance it was.../me looks at OP -------------------------------------- You Know!
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:32:00 - [16] If you are being chased, have no aggro timer and are not in a cloaker or fast frigate. Then by all means log off and hope they dont probe you in time. If you jump into a camp and then log to save your ass from your own mistake then NO that is not an appropriate log-off moment. Circumstances dictate the correct action.
fugazii Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:33:00 - [17] lol this whole thread is about people who logged out when not in combat? if thats so, hydra alliance im gonna be coming for you, therefor if anyone of your members logout from this moment on your alliance is per minigins view, a logging alliance.
Algorithm 5 Caldari Hakata Group Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:13:00 - [18] Originally by: XxAngelxX Not being in mobile ships, having no where else to go but safespot hopping or certain death, we decided to call it a night instead of waiting 2 hours and making the 9 jumps back to venal. This is what I would call "OK" logging off. When a game stops being fun, you stop playing, especially when you achieve nothing. It would not have been a good fight, it wouldn't have been fun for hydra but to do nothing more than maybe sooth their bruised egos after sundays events. When Sparta were in Fountain and logged off their entire 20 man gang trapped in DBRN after killing our carrier, I figured it was fair enough, since it must have been very late eurotime (they are mostly German? I could be wrong...) and I figured they were calling it a night. I'm only ok with that, because we would have had to the chance to gank them over the next several days as they filtered back on again and tried to get out. The same thing happened from 7bx after the Titan died, with 30 odd D2 pilots logged off there slowly filtering out. I'm not sure we killed many, but the oppotunity was there. What REALLY ****ed me off was that with local empty, we had to stand down the fleet camping them in, and canceled the carrier reinforcements. Everyone pulled out and went back to their normal lives. And then 45 minutes later, the entire gang simultaneously logs back in and made a (successful) run for safety. Which I find far worse than random solo people logging, since it was an entire gang logging under orders from the FC, not some uncontrolled individual doing it on their own.
Ztrain Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:16:00 - [19] Actually the game mechanics on logging out isn't all that bad at the present time. Yes it sucks when you corner a hostile fleet and they log out on you. It does show that they like to come in to an area of your space to gank but aren't capable of putting up a fight when the locals fight back. One mechanic I'd like to see disabled is the log on trap. At a previous time a fleet logs out and then uses a bait to lure a small or large gang in to the kill area. Then they all log in out of nowhere and ambush the fleet. Although it does provide entertainment when the logging in fleet gets wiped out as well A good solution for this would be you can use any modules that generate aggression within 5 minutes of logging in or until you did at least one session change. This would be docking or undocking, jumping through a gate, changing a ship in space etc. The other thing I would personally like to see changed is that you can be agressed after logging out. Many times warping to a belt to find a pray who wasn't paying attention just to have them Ctrl Q before they are locked and agressed. They should be dead they were caught with their pants down. The point at which you can not be agressed should not be the point you quit but rather when you come out of emergency warp 1AU away from your log point. So if you crash or legitimately log out there you are still safe. But if you log out right in front of a hostile scout to try and safe your ass they can still agress you to give you the 15 minute timer. Z
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Minigin I think its time for me to get flamed again... so heres what about. I previously thought that logging out was left to macro ratters and other scum of the galaxy... however in recent times I have been witness to an amazingly large number of alliances that are supposedly "firmly rooted in pvpö logging out in large numbers when confronted by their prey. so its time to define pvp in eve atm. 14 men gank you, or you r 14 men gank 1 guy... then the enemy raises a gang to combat you... and immediately one of the sides drops to 0 in local. The term "logoffski" was coined to poke fun at Red Alliance for using this tactic. However its amusing to go back in these forums and look at those who have pointed and screamed logoffski at others... and are happily doing it now... If ccp isnÆt going to fix this... which i think they have made it abundantly clear they wont... then its time for all of us to decide if this is the way we want pvp in eve to head? Fix what? I'd like to know how you would change the aggro timer?

Basilii Minmatar Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:23:00 - [21] can i have your stuff ? if i would post everytime i saw ppl log off i would become crazy probably ...
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:24:00 - [22] anti-logging mechanics have come a long way and its really not a valid topic to whine about anymore. use bubbles and probes and if they are safespotted or docked and then they log out then you are just being unreasonable.
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:27:00 - [23] Reality is.....majority of ppl are crap anyway. And they are no better then those that started all this schit, if they go with a flow. "Well, if others do it, why should i leave my ship to danger if not needed". This attitude is even worst then with those that started it, IMO. So, cry me a river all you want...you all brought this yourself me, myself and I ------>
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:36:00 - [24] Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 22/05/2007 07:36:00 Originally by: Smith Fix what? I'd like to know how you would change the aggro timer? If you don't log out in a station or inside POS shields you sit in space for 15 minutes regardless of aggro timers or not. Pretty simple solution if you ask me. And to anyone who says, "But my kid craps itself all the time and I am constantly needing to change his diapers and I will have to log off without a moments notice, (right when a hostile fleet jumps into the system I was ratting in) it isn't fair!!!" Too bad. If you have real life needs then you should style your game play to accomodate those needs, not demand that the game mechanics be styled to accomodate your individual real life concerns which foster an enviroment most players find frustrating and view as an abuse of game mechanics.
Entilzah Valen 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:38:00 - [25] Constructing a nice trap would probably be a better choice rather than bringing 26 people to kill 9. A fatal error over a clear danger. As far as the actual problem goes: Quote: good solution for this would be you can use any modules that generate aggression within 5 minutes of logging in or until you did at least one session change. This would be docking or undocking, jumping through a gate, changing a ship in space etc. Nice idea there. Another good idea to end the gatejump logoffski would be to remove CTRL-Q or make it bring up a confirmation dialog. Any dialoged (yes/no confirmed) logging off while cloaked (gate cloak or otherwise) results in a timer, and add a proper "logout" feature that runs on a timer. You can't move, can't activate any modules or have any modules active until a timer finishes. That would just leave modem pullers. So long as pilots were made aware of such changes, the responsibility becomes theirs to adhere to them. Folks in SWG learned to deal with it pretty damn easy. __________________________ Quote: Marko Debreault > I WILL MAKE BROTH FROM YOUR BLOOD AND DRINK IT FROM YOUR SKULL
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:44:00 - [26] Edited by: Plutoinum on 22/05/2007 07:43:20 Originally by: Smith Fix what? I'd like to know how you would change the aggro timer? Simple like in other games. You need to wait 30 seconds for a timer to run down to log-out in space. If you get aggressed or do anything, the timer gets canceled. If you choose not to wait those 30 seconds, your char stays there anyway for 30 seconds and is agressable, so you do it at your own risk. You can't activate that logoff while being still cloaked after jumping into system. If you ctrl-q there, you decloak and stay those 30 seconds ingame there decloaked and can still be aggressed (edit or stay there another 30 seconds after the cloaking timer runs out and can be aggressed then. ) I've just played the CoV trial and there you also have to wait 30 seconds to log off. If you want to logout to desktop, you have the option to do so immediately, but you get a warning that it's at your own risk.
IntegralHellsing Gallente The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:46:00 - [27] it has become a trend :P we should all live with it. yeah it sucks, but what can we do? people log off to save pod (yeah, even if the pod has no implant) people log off to save their ships people will always log off in order to minimize their loss. we can complain every now and then but i am sure CCP won't be fixing it much. --------------------------------------
Minigin Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:54:00 - [28] Originally by: XxAngelxX I wasn't going to dignify this with a response, but seeing as though Minigin has derailed our battle report with it, I will explain the circumstances. 14 VSQ pilots set out on a late night roam about 01:00 and it was agreed that after visiting c-fp that we would return home and log as it was about 04:00 - 06:00 in the morning for most of us ( yeah I know we need jobs ). Hydra got together a gang of 38 people and chased around the triangle of systems near c-fp where we tried to split them up so we could fight the less overwhelming odds. Our FC then dropped connection so we headed out towards a safer system to wait for him to get back. However due to some diligence that has not been shown before by Hydra, they had called Pure. in with another 26 pilots effectively sandwhiching our gang which was now down to 9 members. Not being in mobile ships, having no where else to go but safespot hopping or certain death, we decided to call it a night instead of waiting 2 hours and making the 9 jumps back to venal. This is what I would call "OK" logging off. When a game stops being fun, you stop playing, especially when you achieve nothing. It would not have been a good fight, it wouldn't have been fun for hydra but to do nothing more than maybe sooth their bruised egos after sundays events. On another note, one thing I dont perceive as being "OK" logging is jumping 9 BS into a 13 man HAC/CS/Inty gang and ALL logging off because of a mistake. This happened 3 weeks ago, and guess which alliance it was.../me looks at OP -this thread was not about you... it was about the problem... but seeing as you want to make it about yourselves i have no problem telling you about it. - "acceptable logging out" you where outsmarted outmanouvered and pinned down. thus you logged. its as simple as that. that is no way acceptable. basicaly what i understand from your argument is "losing is no fun" and "if your not having fun... you can log out" ********! - also this post was never soley made about you... i know that this is a widespanning problem rooted deeply into pvp in eve. believe me when i say... if i could order any members of my current alliance to never log... i would. but as i stand here flaming you for your single mindedness and stupidity... i realise one thing. there will be no change in this system because people like you think "its ok... i cant lose a game... then its not fun. so cheating is ok..." - i will not direct any more flames at tri in this thread because they are not the only guilty ones... i know that. and to add to this... i hope this was an iscolated incident as i know some people in Tri and i dont think they would log out in such a cowardly manner. -as to my "derailment" of your other thread. i just felt that as you had decided to correct our flaws i would do the same... fly safe & dont log out Your signature <----- My awsome Sig "the true mark of a pvp alliance... log out when in trouble"
Elfaen Ethenwe Eternal Rising EternalRising	Posted - 2007.05.22 08:08:00 - [29] Originally by: XxAngelxX I wasn't going to dignify this with a response, but seeing as though Minigin has derailed our battle report with it, I will explain the circumstances. 14 VSQ pilots set out on a late night roam about 01:00 and it was agreed that after visiting c-fp that we would return home and log as it was about 04:00 - 06:00 in the morning for most of us ( yeah I know we need jobs ). Hydra got together a gang of 38 people and chased around the triangle of systems near c-fp where we tried to split them up so we could fight the less overwhelming odds. Our FC then dropped connection so we headed out towards a safer system to wait for him to get back. However due to some diligence that has not been shown before by Hydra, they had called Pure. in with another 26 pilots effectively sandwhiching our gang which was now down to 9 members. Not being in mobile ships, having no where else to go but safespot hopping or certain death, we decided to call it a night instead of waiting 2 hours and making the 9 jumps back to venal. This is what I would call "OK" logging off. When a game stops being fun, you stop playing, especially when you achieve nothing. It would not have been a good fight, it wouldn't have been fun for hydra but to do nothing more than maybe sooth their bruised egos after sundays events. On another note, one thing I dont perceive as being "OK" logging is jumping 9 BS into a 13 man HAC/CS/Inty gang and ALL logging off because of a mistake. This happened 3 weeks ago, and guess which alliance it was.../me looks at OP haha... see we had exactly the same thing last night against smashkill. we wandered into their station systems all saying we are logging @ 2am uk time cause we've all got jobs to go to. But went there hoping for a decent fight. there was 9 of us. and 42 in local. so we bounced ss's till we lost agression thinking we'd log and start where we left off last night. For some reason, smashkill decided to leave system just as we were about to log. so we got to a safe distance and logged there. Its important to spot the difference between logging cause your blobbed to death and logging cause your shattered. Tri have been complemented by hydra in the pst for fighting regardless of odds, so could you guys make up your mind??? ----------------------------------------------- logoffski is bad mmmk?
Asylum Seaker Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 08:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Asylum Seaker With the amount of crashing my client does, I'm not too keen on any fix which involves ships being vulnerable after the pilot logs / crashes. Personally, I don't give a flying you know what about your personal problems. CCP needs to fix the logoffski problem and they need to do it soon. It is a wide spread problem affecting almost every PvPer in this game, and it needs to change, and change soon. Originally by: fugazii Originally by: Asylum Seaker With the amount of crashing my client does, I'm not too keen on any fix which involves ships being vulnerable after the pilot logs / crashes. this is exactly whats wrong with eve. if you or your computer cant handle eve/pvp, everyone else in the game shouldnt have to suffer for it. your comp crashes? tough **** go buy a new computer. you dont have money? stop playing eve for 2 weeks get a job and buy one. inadecuacies of a single person or small amount of people should not dictate how the game is run. There is nothing wrong with my computer. Its a 2.66ghz dual core with two gigs of ram and a radeon x1800t. That doesn't stop the game crashing sometimes when I jump through a gate with a bunch of other people. Generally half the gang crashes at the same time. How could this be on the players end? And I have to play without sound because otherwise for some reason when torpedos are fired it occasionally causes the computer to shut down, wtf is that? Other people have that problem aswell. Games have bugs, they crash some times. Especially when more people are playing in one spot than the game is supposed to handle. And in the end you can't expect CCP to abandon playability on older computers for the sake of people who are sick of their victims logging out. The universe is hostile, so impersonal, devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been.



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