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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 07/01/2004 22:21:34
You guys think this would be useful? Discuss.
On my particular setup it would increase my 425mm railgun optimal with anitmatter ammo from 36km to 43.2km. Doesn't exactly seem overpowering to me.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Doc Brown
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:22:00 -
[2]
No.. not with the 425, but then why not use blasters on your ship?
A 10% level bost would greatly help those out.
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:24:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
No.. not with the 425, but then why not use blasters on your ship?
A 10% level bost would greatly help those out.
Cause it wouldn't add much to your range.
My skills are Caldari Bship5 / Sharpshooter 4.
With a 425mm Railgun using Antimatter, it's only a 7.2km optimal improvement. I'm too lazy to do the math on blasters atm, but I imagine the increase would be barely noticable, probably 1km at most, considering you're talking about a really low optimal to begin with, probably not much of an improvement.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:29:00 -
[4]
Edited by: j0sephine on 07/01/2004 22:40:04
Mhmm, thinking a more useful bonus combo would be:
* 5% damage increase to railguns per battleship level
* 10% torpedoes speed increase per battleship level
... since Caldari are supposed to use railguns, so boosting damage to level comparable with heavy lasers would give a reason to install the railguns on Caldari ships. And the torpedoes speed bonus would make up for firing heavy missiles over long range, but even maximum speed (1875 m/sec) would keep the frigates able to avoid them. o.o
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:46:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 07/01/2004 22:40:04
Mhmm, thinking a more useful bonus combo would be:
* 5% damage increase to railguns per battleship level
* 10% torpedoes speed increase per battleship level
... since Caldari are supposed to use railguns, so boosting damage to level comparable with heavy lasers would give a reason to install the railguns on Caldari ships. And the torpedoes speed bonus would make up for firing heavy missiles over long range, but even maximum speed (1875 m/sec) would keep the frigates able to avoid them. o.o
Torpedo bonus only would be silly. Caldari should be good with all missles, not just one.
Railgun damage bonus would be nice, but then that kind of takes away the Gallante uniqueness n stuff. Maybe ROF bonus would be better.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.07 22:54:00 -
[6]
"Torpedo bonus only would be silly. Caldari should be good with all missles, not just one."
Well, giving all missiles a boost would cause some problems, as it'd add to the standard missiles skill and result in cruise missiles going at ~3k, meaning they could kill everything but Minmatar frigates with them. And since it's the torpedoes and cruise missiles that are really used with battleships or anything else for that matter, reducing the disadvantage of the heaviest missiles seemed sensible. o.O
"Railgun damage bonus would be nice, but then that kind of takes away the Gallante uniqueness n stuff. Maybe ROF bonus would be better."
I'd nerf the Gallente damage bonus to just the blasters personally, so they have incentive to focus on what's supposed to be their tactics. :s
But RoF bonus for Caldari instead of damage makes no real difference as it affects DoT just the same, so it's fine with me.
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.07 23:00:00 -
[7]
10% would be useful, 5% is crap. When you compare the range changes and damage changes between crystals and ammo, this becomes evident.
I do think that type of change would encourage blasters, and caldari might become close range specialists in yet another reversal of CCP's intentions (think about it, better range on blasters, good shields to allow you to get in range and ew to benefit from your optimal range and help you stay in position). Not that I think it's a bad idea, just bringing up some lateral issues.
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.07 23:02:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Teeth on 07/01/2004 23:07:57
Giving caldari bonuses to rails only and gallente to blasters only and increasing those bonuses could be the right approach. Of course then all the Gallente would complain about how the issue is not blasters for them but getting in range with mwd and having a mwd or mwd-cap usage bonus of some sort is what's really needed.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.07 23:04:00 -
[9]
"Of course then all the Gallente would complain about how the issue is not blasters for them but getting in range with mwd (..)"
Aye, but TomB already said in last dev chat he's going to do something about it. ;)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.01.07 23:35:00 -
[10]
Well once I said to give missiles RoF bonus/penalties like ammo has range bonus/penalties based on type. Then give all Caldari ships a RoF bonus to launchers.
That would make the Caldari ships stand out from other ships using missiles. In terms of firepower, Typhoon has the Scorpion beat with the same number of launchers plus 2 additional turrets plus additional drones. Face it, the only reason why people choose the Scorpion over the Typhoon is the midslots. And I'm betting with a shoehorn and a little stubborness, the Typhoon makes a fairly decent armor tank.
On to the turrets. It seems Caldari flyers can't seem to decide on what their primary weapon is. If you want Missiles to be the primary weapon (no whining about current changes as that's a different thread), then the turrets are less relevant. Generallly is I go for a specific role with my ships (max turrets), the launchers are not primary weapons. Nor do I expect them to assist in damage dealing. I use them more for defense purposes (defenders vs missiles, cruise missiles/torps vs ships too far into my range). It might be better to consider a different bonus. Like a bonus to Large Hybrid tracking, given that most vessels are likely to be orbitting you at higher speeds. Then the turrets on ships like the Scorpion and the Raven are better tasked for dealing with fast moving targets.
If there's something a ranged person loathes, it's something too close to them. A tracking bonus might be more appropriate to deal with ships that will inevitably get too close to you, given the speed your cows...er, ships move at 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Tsunari
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Posted - 2004.01.08 00:08:00 -
[11]
I thought this would be a good idea as well, but its flawed as Caldari has no way to capitalize on it. Caldari have the slowest ships second to the Amarr and even if you do get out of range by some miracle, you'd be lucky to get a good hit or higher if you are in a battleship.
It really seems to me that CCP's understanding of the word balance is getting pretty minimal. With the missle nerf, Caldari ships will be near worthless if the rail guns are not fixed.
I would suggest keeping the range bonus as it is, but increasing the ROF of the rails. So in other words:
Caldari Ship Bonus: +5% Range and +5% ROF to Hybrid Weapons.
And oh yea, fix the sh*t tracking on the battleship size railguns.
~Tsunari |
Sphalerite
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Posted - 2004.01.11 06:03:00 -
[12]
a 10% optimal bonus isn't much if you're using antimatter, but if you move out past 80, you're still doing good damage with the longer range ammo. Iron ammo with good skills could still be in optimal out at 150.
Make really long range combat easier to get into and 10% will be a great bonus.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2004.01.11 08:06:00 -
[13]
really why not have 5% optimal and ROF for hybrid and 5% ROF to missiles thats what caldari use most eh?
give gall 10% dmg or give them like 10% and like 10% reduced cap usage on ab/mwd? got to try and make them get within range hehe
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.11 08:11:00 -
[14]
Quote:
really why not have 5% optimal and ROF for hybrid and 5% ROF to missiles thats what caldari use most eh?
give gall 10% dmg or give them like 10% and like 10% reduced cap usage on ab/mwd? got to try and make them get within range hehe
Because the issue is most people using caldari ships aren't even bothering with hybrids. They are not useful on caldari ships one bit.
I assume you are a megathron user, and you can use railguns. Megathron is very powerful with blasters, but getting into range is difficult.. but atleast Megathrons are using hybrids now in some fashion. Most caldari ships are equipped with lasers or projectiles + launchers, not hybrids.
If you give megathron tons of speed, that pretty much takes away the incentive to play minmatar and use their ships, speed is supposed to be their thing.
Then again, with all the speed minmatar ships have, and the smaller signature radius (which means you can move in faster against ships) how many do you see using autocannons? Hmm..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.01.11 08:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 11/01/2004 08:53:20
increase dmg of 425mm rails and increase caldari ship speed! decrease caldari lock time couse caldari r specialised in electronics right? and If ever Battleship lvl3 comes out make the Caldari one Turret based, 6 Turret Hardpoints and 4 Missile Hardpoints! 
or make a super uber change and give the Griffin, BlackBird and Scorpion 10% decrease in locking each skill! 
"We brake for nobody"
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.01.11 08:53:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 11/01/2004 08:54:44
My personal opinion is that the range bonus, whether 5% or 10%, is just **** no matter what. Range is meaningless as a bonus. What is REALLY the difference between 40km and 50km? not much.
I'd really like to see a 5% or 10% damage bonus for using missiles on the Caldari missile boats - kestrel, caracal, raven. On the ships of the line - merlin, moa, raven - I'd like to see a railgun ROF bonus. Yes that means the raven would have both a missile DMG bonus and a railgun ROF bonus.
The scorpion and other ships like the blackbird and griffin are a little tougher ... maybe a cap usage bonus when using certain modules? I dunno.
But I very strongly believe that the missile boats should get missile DMG bonus and the ships of the line should get hybrid ROF.
EDIT: I see how it could be somewhat useful.......better hits cuz you dont need as good tracking to hit at longer range. But honestly I dunno just use thorium I find thorium scores better hits at optimal range than AM does.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.11 09:32:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Edited by: Cao Cao on 11/01/2004 08:54:44
My personal opinion is that the range bonus, whether 5% or 10%, is just **** no matter what. Range is meaningless as a bonus. What is REALLY the difference between 40km and 50km? not much.
I'd really like to see a 5% or 10% damage bonus for using missiles on the Caldari missile boats - kestrel, caracal, raven. On the ships of the line - merlin, moa, raven - I'd like to see a railgun ROF bonus. Yes that means the raven would have both a missile DMG bonus and a railgun ROF bonus.
The scorpion and other ships like the blackbird and griffin are a little tougher ... maybe a cap usage bonus when using certain modules? I dunno.
But I very strongly believe that the missile boats should get missile DMG bonus and the ships of the line should get hybrid ROF.
EDIT: I see how it could be somewhat useful.......better hits cuz you dont need as good tracking to hit at longer range. But honestly I dunno just use thorium I find thorium scores better hits at optimal range than AM does.
I'd like a decent hybrid bonus for caldari ships. Not all caldari ships are missle boats, thought it seems to be 50/50 on most ships, aside from the Moa, which is a pure turret ship, imo.
I can't think of a good hybrid bonus for caldari though. Damage is the bonus you want, but Gallante have that already. ROF? Maybe, but I don't know how useful that is for a turret that already has a semi-decent ROF already.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Booky
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Posted - 2004.01.11 09:50:00 -
[18]
Personally I would like a dammage bonus of some sort. It doesn't matter if it is 3% Turrent, 5% Missle, whatever, we need some dammage bonuses. I also would like to see some sort of bonus for all races that they get if they fly thier own race ships. Nothing big, but soemthing for those of us that are actually loyal to our race.
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Elfman
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Posted - 2004.01.11 11:21:00 -
[19]
How about if they changed the cal to using proj rather than rails or changed the bonus for rails to less cap per shot.
On the Scorp I have used Lasers for NPC's but always stick with projectiles for PvP as the trade off for cap use from rails makes them not a viable option.
Running a Scorp as a shield tank with 4 hardeners a shield booster etc and using 425's there just isnt enough cap to last.
Or even a bonus to cap size/recharge like amar ships 
Its not going to happen as Cal ships seem to be on the devs target list.
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