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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:03:00 -
[211]
I now like Jove a little more ;).
But seriously, I know how query performance can radicaly differ from one setup to the next. Not to mention with different load characteristics. It is hard to have something thats generic and just works and at the same time having it work well under all possible conditions. Join hints that work miracles on one machine can perform comparitivly unexected slow on another.
Identifying and fixing it fast, on a large bussy system is nothing short of excelent. It's fact that these things can't always be spotted and optimized away on anything but the running server. In theory everything is possible ofcourse, but thats for others :).
Thanks for your magic and information!
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jonfr
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:05:00 -
[212]
Edited by: jonfr on 25/05/2007 20:04:39
Why doesn't CCP use QoS to prevent lag ?
Under a new name and new look. |
Fel Wrath
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:07:00 -
[213]
CCP should really consider switching to Isolinear chip technology...
Hey it worked for James T. Kirk!
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Lumy
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:07:00 -
[214]
Pardon me, but could you remind me where any of Devs or other CCP employee stated that they were running on MS SQL? IIRC, whole this discussion MS vs. ORACLE started like this:
 Originally by: Nezz Jaran
And out of curiousity, when you say "SQL Server" you are speaking in generic terms, right? You're not actually talking MS SQL Server? Cuz if you mean MS SQL Server, I think I just found your problem (it's all about Oracle on Unix).
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Redback96
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:13:00 -
[215]
All these technical experts and not a single person that knows what they are talking about. :-P
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Toramt
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:19:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Toramt on 25/05/2007 20:21:28
Originally by: Lumy
Pardon me, but could you remind me where any of Devs or other CCP employee stated that they were running on MS SQL? IIRC, whole this discussion MS vs. ORACLE started like this:
Its has been stated that the forums use the same DB as the game. At http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=19378 we see an error from the forum stating that it can't get to SQL Server.
At http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=146596&page=1#3 there is a statement about running SQL Server on Windows 2003 Server.
I wouldn't expect them to be that consistent on calling it SQL Server and never slipping in to referencing it as Oracle/MySQL/Postgres/Sybase unless it actually was MS SQL Server running on a W2k3 server.
I wonder how MS SQLServer compares to Oracle running with a Oracle TimesTen In-Memory Database cache on the application servers in front of a proper Oracle RAC database cluster.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:20:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Redback96
All these technical experts and not a single person that knows what they are talking about. :-P
Ok, I will bite by means of a question......do you?
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Evil Pookie
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:23:00 -
[218]
so we wont be paying for the last 24 hours...... right?
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anubis deathbringer
Caldari
Fluffy Rabbit Killers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:29:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Redback96
All these technical experts and not a single person that knows what they are talking about. :-P
i fully agree, i personally know nothing and see nothing. life is a big mystery and well personally i think the fact the server was down for 8 hours shouldnt have sparked this large of a topic.
give it a rest people. just be glad that they caught it before your character was deleted and/or you lost everything you own
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Toramt
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:30:00 -
[220]
Originally by: jonfr
Edited by: jonfr on 25/05/2007 20:04:39
Why doesn't CCP use QoS to prevent lag ?
QoS is a method of prioritizing network traffic. Since all the traffic (game packets) are essentially of equal priority to one another, on what basis would they prioritize? I suppose one could try to lower the priority of people who are in station, but they are already using so little traffic anyway that it doesn't seem helpful.
The other problem with QoS is that every router along the path needs to support it, or else the benefit is minimal. They can QoS within the datacenter, but setting the 'high priority interactive' QoS bit will not help the packet once it hits someone else's router.
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Lumy
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:39:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Toramt
Its has been stated that the forums use the same DB as the game. At http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=19378 we see an error from the forum stating that it can't get to SQL Server.
At http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=146596&page=1#3 there is a statement about running SQL Server on Windows 2003 Server.
I wouldn't expect them to be that consistent on calling it SQL Server and never slipping in to referencing it as Oracle/MySQL/Postgres/Sybase unless it actually was MS SQL Server running on a W2k3 server.
I'm still not entirely convinced. The first error says only that OLE DB (Microsoft API for connectiong to DB) couldn't connect to SQL server. It could be Oracle (just for as example) as well. And I guess you can run Oracle on Windows server, too.
So, unless Devs openly state, what kind of SQL server do they use, the whole discussion about what should they use is pointless (imho).
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Pardack
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:59:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Lumy
I'm still not entirely convinced. The first error says only that OLE DB (Microsoft API for connectiong to DB) couldn't connect to SQL server. It could be Oracle (just for as example) as well. And I guess you can run Oracle on Windows server, too.
So, unless Devs openly state, what kind of SQL server do they use, the whole discussion about what should they use is pointless (imho).
It's definately running MSSQL. I'll see if I can find the relevant dev blogs, but it has been stated many times by multiple devs.
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Lumy
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.05.25 21:14:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Lumy on 25/05/2007 21:19:00
Originally by: Pardack
It's definately running MSSQL. I'll see if I can find the relevant dev blogs, but it has been stated many times by multiple devs.
Thanks, but you don't have to anymore. I did some googling myself, and yeah, you were right. I should be less lazy.
By the way, for all those "split server into two", "use QoS", "use Oracle": look what i have found, before ... well, you probably know 
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T'ni Iommi
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Posted - 2007.05.25 21:32:00 -
[224]
http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html |
whizzz
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Posted - 2007.05.25 23:42:00 -
[225]
As someone who has worked as a SQL senior developer, as head of operations support and currently as overall head of IT for a large corp, I thought I'd add my 2-penneth for what its worth.
1.
95% of the time a reboot works. When you have lots of servers working together (clustering)and they all start to grind to a halt together, you know it cant be hardware so a reboot (to refresh the software and update error logs is the logical course of action once youve rulled out the communication links).
At least the junior DBA had the balls to try and sort out the problem.
2.
CCP should pay top dollar for at least 3 elite DBA's to work shifts around the clock. After all its not like they are short of cash and it is supposed to be a 24hr game... and what if the head DBA gets sick... Taking this a step further, why do all the DBA's have to live in the same time zone as everything should be accessible remotely.
3.
Neither MS SQL nor Oracle SQL are great products IMHO. Both technologies require lots of computing hardware compared to many of the 'other' sql software providers out there (not that Oracle or Microsoft would ever acknowledge that they exist as one by one they kill them off with their huge marketing spend).
4.
CCP run IBM blades using AMD processors. This is the fastest combination of PC server technology - which they are forced into buying due to the number of concurrent users and the processing power required by sql (see 3.). Ask anyone in the industry about blades and AMD processors is that this is not the most stable technology and that Microsoft and IBM don't get along well with each other as they are competitors in many areas. This means new microsoft software patches dont always work well with the ibm and amd hardware adding to the support guys problems. Blades are more bleeding Edge than leading edge.
5.
Given its far too late to change your key server infrastructure, I think CCP do an awesome job in keeping things up and running whilst continuing to grow and evolve. I especially would like to thank the DBA for being so upfront and honest in an industry plagued with bull**** and marketing spin.
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Derforseti
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Posted - 2007.05.26 00:32:00 -
[226]
It's obviously a broken solenoid. Happens to me all the time.
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Manta Avoid
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Posted - 2007.05.26 00:53:00 -
[227]
In reply to whizz -
I totally agree. Good on CCP and all their game staff!
They didn't make the hardware, so they have to deal with what they can get that suits the job.
I'm just extremely pleased that they bought the best H/W they could get! Problems like this always happen tho,
so I wouldn't be poking 'em with the rough end of the stick just 'cause there was an issue after a patch release.
Sometimes, you just can't be sure what caused it, but you can just as well be sure these guys aren't going to pull an
EA on us and just ignore the problems!
GG CCP!
- Manta
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Smash64
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.26 00:57:00 -
[228]
http://digg.com/pc_games/EVE_Creators_CCP_Under_Fire_Again_for_Alleged_Corruption_Open_Letter_Made
sad times
"All opposition must be stamped into the ground" |
Torrstar
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Posted - 2007.05.26 11:37:00 -
[229]
Is the server down now? (7:40 am GMT -5 26/5/2007) Status Indicator on my log in screen shows "unknown" and I get an error message saying that I either haven't established an internet connection (not true), the server isn't running (more likely), or the server address or port number was wrong (I did nothing to change them)
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Keten Kennek
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Posted - 2007.05.26 11:40:00 -
[230]
I think TQ is down. I get the same 'unknown' status, and no connect
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Aylit Neroon
Caldari
Caldari Naval Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.05.26 12:02:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Aylit Neroon on 26/05/2007 12:01:46
12 o`clock, and status unknown,
I cannot login, either.
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Voodoo Mistross
Minmatar
KickAssCrew
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Posted - 2007.05.26 12:05:00 -
[232]
what is going on?! patch deployed yesterday and extended dt again tonight?!
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Xipe Totec
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Posted - 2007.05.26 12:11:00 -
[233]
Maybe they are deploying Revelations 2.0 as we speak ;-) ...
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Aylit Neroon
Caldari
Caldari Naval Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.05.26 12:14:00 -
[234]
Finally, it`s starting up!
No offence, but better late then never.
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Katiarky Strigo
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Posted - 2007.05.26 12:15:00 -
[235]
Here's my two cents:
Eve-Online already lacks scalability in some game sections (fleet battles for example). Don't know how many clusters are there to support the game (e.g.: one cluster for transactions, one for global positioning of ships, another for contracts, etc, etc).
Eve-online devs are not keeping up with clients' demands for a more fluid gameplay, so they plan an easy way out, which is top HW aquisitions. Needless to say, that this doesn't solve the problem at all, only delays its effects. These are all short to medium-term "solutions", and there will be a point in time where even HW won't be able to help them.
I once saw a movie from one of those fests where devs were talking about the improvements they made, since Eve's first appearance to public, and presented a fleet battle with an enormous amount of ships shooting at each other, with apparentely very small lag. I've never seen such behavior in Eve (I wish I've seen it, but never did).
My point is this:
DBA admins, MS SQL Servers, Oracles are all already at an very high-level in terms of app development. DBA's are probably making work-arounds and query optimizations that probably have already very small performance gains.
Eve's core needs to be reviewed (network, motion predictor, data compression, reduction of queries complexity, data model). And it needs to be reviewed now (if it's not already being done), because we will only see it's benifits in a year or two from today. If it's not being reviewed, I can only hope it can sustain the increasing number of players. But my faith is becoming dimmer...and dimmer.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.05.26 16:24:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Inspiration on 26/05/2007 16:24:14
Originally by: Katiarky Strigo
Here's my two cents:
Eve-Online already lacks scalability in some game sections (fleet battles for example). Don't know how many clusters are there to support the game (e.g.: one cluster for transactions, one for global positioning of ships, another for contracts, etc, etc).
Eve-online devs are not keeping up with clients' demands for a more fluid gameplay, so they plan an easy way out, which is top HW aquisitions. Needless to say, that this doesn't solve the problem at all, only delays its effects. These are all short to medium-term "solutions", and there will be a point in time where even HW won't be able to help them.
I once saw a movie from one of those fests where devs were talking about the improvements they made, since Eve's first appearance to public, and presented a fleet battle with an enormous amount of ships shooting at each other, with apparentely very small lag. I've never seen such behavior in Eve (I wish I've seen it, but never did).
My point is this:
DBA admins, MS SQL Servers, Oracles are all already at an very high-level in terms of app development. DBA's are probably making work-arounds and query optimizations that probably have already very small performance gains.
Eve's core needs to be reviewed (network, motion predictor, data compression, reduction of queries complexity, data model). And it needs to be reviewed now (if it's not already being done), because we will only see it's benifits in a year or two from today. If it's not being reviewed, I can only hope it can sustain the increasing number of players. But my faith is becoming dimmer...and dimmer.
You are entitled to your own oppinion ofcourse.
But please realise that the current level of service and gameplay smoothness is waaaaay better then it was two years ago. There is a steady noticable improvement happening, and the extreme surge of new players (or alts) looks like slowing down.
To me it looks like you are reading too much from too little information. We can with all due respect only get a superficial idea of all the details you make assumptions about.
It can be that certain game aspects like large fleet battles are lagging behind the improvements, i can't know as i never been in one. The problem is being adressed by means of a change of gameplay mechanics. If its gona work, I don't know, players will always try to fight unfair fights and feel great about it, thus blob.....and then blame CCP ocourse!
My advice: Cool down :)
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Morning Maniac
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:23:00 -
[237]
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Edited by: GM Faolchu on 25/05/2007 04:08:23
The server is currently experiencing database problems, the server team is looking into it. The server should be up and running shortly without any further issues.
We apologise greatly for any inconvenience caused and hope that there will be no further issues.
*Update* It looks as though an issue from the previous reboot cropped up again. The server was taken down again to resolve this issue.
Anyone who says anything bad about Faolchu will have to deal with me :)
Oh yes, server sucks, mucho lag...
MM
http://eve-ivy.com
EVE University commercial |
pincalo
Caldari
The Jin'ei Hizoku
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.05.27 00:40:00 -
[238]
ok since all that i have seen on these posts is noth short of players bashing CCP and DEVs you ppl really have no CLUE how hard these guys work to make TQ run as smoothly as they do, yes they have some problems and bugs but honestly, they are fixing them as fast they can. the techs do know what they are doing and they whole thing you guys need to stop whining about it. ANY game has bugs and glitches we are lucky to have this and if you guys don't have the patience to wait for a server to get back online too bad, crying about it is only going to anger techs, angry techs are not your friends, i know this cause i AM a tech (not for eve).
this server set up is the best game i ever played and im sticking with it, bugs and all. and before you reply to this post and say something about me being a kiss, think twice about it because these kind of server set ups are few and far between. i have yet to find a game that sucks me in as much as eve does, and i am here to stay and i won't have a forum argument so read this post and move on cause i will not have a posting war for this thread.
if the devs say the bugs will be fixed when they are fixed then i have fulll confidence they will get done, DEAL WITH IT.
_______________________________________________
KABOOM!!!!! "what just happened?"
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Galdoth
Incognito Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.27 01:21:00 -
[239]
Originally by: pincalo
ok since all that i have seen on these posts is noth short of players bashing CCP and DEVs you ppl really have no CLUE how hard these guys work to make TQ run as smoothly as they do, yes they have some problems and bugs but honestly, they are fixing them as fast they can. the techs do know what they are doing and they whole thing you guys need to stop whining about it. ANY game has bugs and glitches we are lucky to have this and if you guys don't have the patience to wait for a server to get back online too bad, crying about it is only going to anger techs, angry techs are not your friends, i know this cause i AM a tech (not for eve).
this server set up is the best game i ever played and im sticking with it, bugs and all. and before you reply to this post and say something about me being a kiss, think twice about it because these kind of server set ups are few and far between. i have yet to find a game that sucks me in as much as eve does, and i am here to stay and i won't have a forum argument so read this post and move on cause i will not have a posting war for this thread.
if the devs say the bugs will be fixed when they are fixed then i have fulll confidence they will get done, DEAL WITH IT.
\ signed
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Ellisuim Eclipse
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Posted - 2007.05.27 06:32:00 -
[240]
Hello Everyone -Developers and Players,
This is the first time I've posted to the forums.
First I was confused and mildly amused at the problems the server was having. When I next logged on and saw the post I read through the entire forum discussion. I felt it important to give my opinion as I didn't see it already reflected.
I would like to congratulate the CCP. Every systems needs maintenance. Every system will have emergencies. The DBA handled the situation not only properly, but stunningly quickly. This game is played by tens of thousands of people. It is updated with new features all the time. The fact that the problem was identified so quickly and handled so well impresses me greatly.
I am amazed that the server is SQL and windows based. But what ever works works.
Think about the consequences of the event. No one lost any character data. It was corrected within less than a day. Skill trainings were continued. A warning was issued that allowed time to warp to a safe place. Basically, an update didn't fully function, and was taken offline. The game remained viable stable and playable after a few extra hours offline. If we had this kind of reliability in ALL our services and products we might be warping all over space ourselves!
I've always enjoyed EVE, but now I enjoy reading about the CCP company as well.
Thank you for your work, time, and caring.
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